(Topic ID: 120651)

Why Pinball Marketing is Poor


By kaneda

4 years ago



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    #1 4 years ago

    Hey guys...been a way for a while. Lost a few family members to cancer and have decided to only chime in when I have some value to ad. I don't know much about making a pinball machine or repairing one, but I do know a lot about marketing. If you are interested in this topic would love your feedback. Also, Colton got paid for Felix, my LOTR is still broken, KLOV banned me again...that should settle us up Enjoy.

    Have you ever wondered why Pinball marketing and communication is usually so poor? As someone who’s worked in marketing for 15 years, the answers are quite simple. Some are quite obvious, others not so much. But here’s why Pinball marketing and communication leaves many of us endlessly frustrated for years.

    1. It doesn’t need much marketing at all: Pinball has a rabid following. I’ve never been on a forum where people are so actively wanting more. Which is a good thing. And anyone who’s looking to sell a new pin knows that. There’s far more demand for new pins than supply. So you don’t need to drum up a lot of interest, initially. It’s already there.

    (important note: this does not apply to new IPs and unlicensed games. Look at AMH, that kind of theme needs a lot more marketing help to get people emotionally connected to the game. That connection may not even be possible considering every other option out there is tapping into HUGE equity that the male buyer is into: TBL, WWE, Hobbit, Ironman, etc.). Now imagine if Spooky had a better them out right now while everyone is frustrated with the waiting game. Spooky could have sold 1,000 Predators right now. Selling a licensed game will help their marketing 1000x.

    2. Pinball marketing starts with bang and ends with a whimper: this is the complete opposite of effective marketing. When you have something special, you want to slowly build excitement over time. And you never show anything final until it’s ready to be made the next day. Mostly all boutiques hype the hell out of their game on day one. They do this because they are trying to raise capital, not market a product. And this is a VERY important point. Usually there isn’t even a product to market when guys like Skit-B announce a title. There’s simply a dream. In my honest opinion, this approach is amateur and not professional at all. They should be giving that sales pitch to investors, showing them how pinball can make money and using other people’s money to make the pin and THEN reveal it to the world with proper marketing. If they had done that, they could have charged $7,500 - $8,000 per pin because you know what? People would pay for that theme and a working pin if they could have it in a week. And this is just one example. Look at Lebowski. They came out strong, but then waa waa. No games ready. A whistle blowing soap opera ensued. And then all of a sudden a company that looked like pros was knocked back into looking like “just another sloppy boutique”. Now I think Dutch will be fine, but what a waste of an amazing reveal. That reveal should have been made when license was locked and games were ready to be made next month. Again, they would have sold LOTS more if this were the case.

    3. You can’t turn on marketing before a release date is set. This is marketing 101. We work backwards from a release date. 100% of the time. Oreo doesn’t come to me and say, “Well, we’d love to make Red Velvet Oreos, not sure when they’ll be ready, but go get people excited!” Instead, it’s “They’ll be out on February 2.” And we know that date about 6 months in advance. Now I’m not saying a pinball company can operate with this level of certainty (building pinball is harder than making OREOS), BUT it can be done.

    4. You can’t say how much something will cost until you know for sure. This one really separates the men from the boys. Part of marketing is selling people on, what we call, RTBs (reasons to believe). One major RTB in pinball is price. A pinball marketer wants people to feel they can get “THAT EXPERIENCE” for “THIS PRICE.” I spend countless nights pondering why people price their games the way they do. I love JPOP and I know his games will prove to be worth it, but he had a price out there BEFORE he embarked on his journey. Again, like most boutiques, he needed the capital to get things moving, but this approach, as I mentioned before, is really a recipe for disaster. 4 years later, John has made MG something truly spectacular and with the amount of effort and innovation found in MG, it’s easily 2-3X more than anything on the market. But besides production cost, there’s also exclusivity and prestige elements that some of these boutiques need to factor into price. Do you think Ferrari does not charge you A LOT more for the badge? They do. JPOP is building the Ferrari of pins and should price it accordingly. My point about price is once these guys are locked into a price, that’s it. They can’t change it. Or else they come across as liars and swindlers. But then they have to stick to something that could make their company fail. It’s a vicious cycles that needs to stop. Games should be priced AFTER they are done. That’s what car companies do. That’s what all real companies do.

    5. Pinside is nightmare for a communication’s professional: When I worked in the video game industry, we didn’t really care about the enthusiast sites. Why? Because we knew they’d buy the game no matter what. Same is true for Pinside. Pinside often demands info/answers on a minute by minute basis, but if I’m Kevin at Skit-B, why would I bother coming on? He knows that if he makes the game, you’ll buy it. He knows that if loses the license, he’s fucked. Coming onto a forum to ease fears is something he would do if HE COULD ease fears. He can’t. So what’s the point? Also there’s just so many people who are not even in on a game weighing in that it’s a futile place to have a discussion. If I were handling a Pinball company’s PR, I would not ignore pinside, but I would not jump into threads very often. But again, if I were handling a company’s marketing / PR, we would not even get to the point where bad threads would occur. The only time you’d hear from me would moments that blew your socks off and got you super excited to by my pin.

    6. Lack of marketing expertise in the industry. While there’s many many talented pinball makers / designers out there, when it comes to great marketers / communications professionals involved with pinball, the number is low. Mainly because of reason #1, it doesn’t require a full-time day job to do it. Marketing however is a skill that needs to be learned over time. Same with communications. What people embarking on a pinball venture don’t realize is the role of your communications person is often to STOP YOU from talking. And often times when you’re MOST EXCITED. No communications pro would have said, “Mission Accomplished” for Predator, or “December 17 Reveal for Magic Girl”. People may think PR / Marketing is easy…just be transparent and everything will be OK. That is 100% not true at all. The best rule is to speak when it’s time to speak. And never promise something you can’t deliver.

    7. There’s only one company doing it right. Code issues aside, Stern Pinball is the only company that operates like a real company. They have someone in a dedicated communications role. Jody is a great guy and I enjoyed working with him on our RadioShack (god bless them) / Ironman tournament. They don’t reveal a game until it’s ready to ship soon. This means they are never behind schedule, never caught in a lie, never under-delivering. It also means they can market their games properly. Now that being said, I do feel Stern’s marketing could go above and beyond. Just pulling back the drape at CES for WWE? They could have done something more with wrestlers. I would have sold LE games only to people who uploaded a video of themselves ripping off their shirt like a Hulk-A-Maniac. Your initial payment would be mailing the ripped shirt to Stern. Just SO MUCH you could do with that fun theme. But like I said in #1, they know they don’t have to do much because nobody is even on their level. If you want to go buy a new game, there’s a good chance that 95% of the time it would have to be a Stern. They must be laughing everyday to the bank, especially when their only competition is busy brushing Smaug’s teeth for months.

    I know this is a lot. But the key take things to remember are:

    - Pre-Order hype is piss poor marketing and will only make you suffer
    - Communication will improve when companies seek out that expertise
    - You can’t build a game and a marketing plan separately
    - A great game will sell itself
    - Pinball is fun, but hard to make

    #2 4 years ago
    Quoted from kaneda:

    have decided to only chime in when I have some value to ad.

    Quoted from kaneda:

    KLOV banned me again...

    So I'm guessing your depiction of value is once again highly subjective

    Sorry about your losses.

    #3 4 years ago
    Quoted from Atomicboy:

    So I'm guessing your depiction of value is once again highly subjective
    Sorry about your losses.

    Let's all agree to ignore this thread.

    Starting now. For sanity's sake letting Special K dictate marketing strategy goes without saying, so nobody say.

    Anything.

    #4 4 years ago

    Welcome back, Kaneda! I, for one, missed you. And if you truly lost a "few" people in your family to cancer, then I'm sorry for your loss and it's probably time for you to get a checkup and an ass scope.

    I only skimmed your post because it's so friggin long and marketing bores the shit out of me, but I did notice one thing that I think is wrong:

    Quoted from kaneda:

    Stern Pinball is the only company that operates like a real company. They have someone in a dedicated communications role. They don’t reveal a game until it’s ready to ship soon. This means they are never behind schedule, never caught in a lie, never under-delivering.

    I think the owners of TWDLE would differ with your contention that Stern's never been caught in a lie.

    #5 4 years ago

    Not sure you know much about Marketung, but it is very expensive. Expensive to the point where depending on the product margins, it does not always make sense. Despite have many of your same views, my knowledge of marketing tells me it would be a waste of money for our industry. The marketing dollars are spent on the license which is very important.

    #6 4 years ago
    Quoted from underlord:

    Let's all agree to ignore this thread.
    Starting now. For sanity's sake letting Special K dictate marketing strategy goes without saying, so nobody say.
    Anything.

    Oops. Sorry. I was a little late hitting the "Send Post" button.

    #7 4 years ago
    Quoted from underlord:

    Let's all agree to ignore this thread.
    Starting now. For sanity's sake letting Special K dictate marketing strategy goes without saying, so nobody say.
    Anything.

    Oh my friend. So much of the pain on pinside would settle if real marketing was taking place. Again, marketing is more than just the parts meant to excite us. The behind the scenes work of putting a plan in place and keeping a lid on info before it's time is where the expertise comes into play. Have you seen one pinball machine launch recently where you said, "they really did a great job launching that game?"

    #8 4 years ago
    Quoted from kaneda:

    Have you seen one pinball machine launch recently where you said, "they really did a great job launching that game?"

    Yes. The Big Lebowski. And then ... oops.

    #9 4 years ago
    Quoted from thedarkknight77:

    Not sure you know much about Marketung, but it is very expensive. Expensive to the point where depending on the product margins, it does not always make sense. Despite have many of your same views, my knowledge of marketing tells me it would be a waste of money for our industry. The marketing dollars are spent on the license which is very important.

    Actually the kind of marketing required for pinball is not very expensive at all. Simply because you don't have to spend ANY money to drum up excitement. Well hardly any. If you have a new, unknown product, then yes, you'd have to place ads where people would see them. You'd have to really spend a lot to get people aware. But Pinball doesn't have an awareness issue. It has a communications issue and product promise issue.

    While I agree that I would drop the largest chunk of my marketing dollars on a license, I do think to grow the buyer base, pinball companies should look outside of the enthusiast space. Take Magic Girl...that game would appeal to the person who just wants the finest examples of things. Those kind of guys aren't lurking on message boards. There's a huge pinball loving world out there and only 1% is on pinside.

    Imagine if Magic Girl had a feature story in the New York Times. John would have guys who own hedge funds and love pinball banging down his door to get the pin.

    So it's a combination of better communications planning and making sure your marketing follows your product development schedule, and not the other way around.

    But very good points.

    #10 4 years ago

    DAMMIT BEEZLEBOOB! Now you've dragged me back into it!

    #11 4 years ago

    Exactly. Dutch was on fire. Their expo reveal was perfect. What I wouldn't have done was just plop the games in the back of Modern like they did. You set the stage perfectly. Playing lebowski in a hotel room with white russians flowing. Then you bring it to a place that doesn't serve booze? No dice. Part of marketing is consistency

    #12 4 years ago
    Quoted from beelzeboob:

    Welcome back, Kaneda! I, for one, missed you. And if you truly lost a "few" people in your family to cancer, then I'm sorry for your loss and it's probably time for you to get a checkup and an ass scope.
    I only skimmed your post because it's so friggin long and marketing bores the shit out of me, but I did notice one thing that I think is wrong:

    I think the owners of TWDLE would differ with your contention that Stern's never been caught in a lie.

    Well, thanks...I've been checked up since. It's hit the women on my Mom's side. And my mom was just diagnosed with breast cancer, which sucks. But it's stage 1 and all the tests are looking good.

    Was the Stern TWDLE lie with regards to making a Premium? When they said they wouldn't. If that's the case, then yes, that type of disingenuous act is not good for business at all. The problem is Stern can abuse us all because there are no other options. Competition helps us as buyers. But right now, there is none. So we're all getting jerked around.

    #13 4 years ago

    Games are too expensive as it is, so add marketing cost in, prices go higher..

    #14 4 years ago
    Quoted from balboarules:

    Games are too expensive as it is, so add marketing cost in, prices go higher..

    It depends, right? A game that comes off of an assembly line like Stern, yes. They are milking it for these LE's. But JPOP is basically making a hand crafted masterpiece. It's just like cars. You've got $10,000 cars and $1,000,0000 cars now. They all get you from A to B. I'm not sure why pinball all has to be priced the same. Back in the 90's, everything was on an assembly line and games were all meant to be LE's without being LE's. But that industry collapsed. If you want that level of pinball, you know have to pay for all of what goes into making a game like that, but WITHOUT the factories, the huge teams helping out. It's now become an artisan skill that only a few have.

    Again, I'm not talking about billboards in Times Square marketing. I'm simply talking about a plan that communicates properly, has a timeline for activities, and builds excitement. I don't see any pinball companies doing this.

    #15 4 years ago

    Did Kaneda ever actually pay that dude for Fix It Felix?

    -2
    #16 4 years ago

    Attention pinball companies: Listen to this long-winded clown talking out of his ass and sales will skyrocket and it will usher in a new golden age for pinball

    #17 4 years ago

    you can beat people here over the head with a hammer and they will never understand #5 or #6.

    #18 4 years ago
    Quoted from Collin:

    Did Kaneda ever actually pay that dude for Fix It Felix?

    Haha...did you even read my post? I addressed this. Colton and I are all squared away and have been friends for a while. On to the next...

    10
    #19 4 years ago
    read all this shit.gif
    #20 4 years ago
    Quoted from Taygeta:

    Attention pinball companies: Listen to this long-winded clown talking out of his ass and sales will skyrocket and it will usher in a new golden age for pinball

    Really? Instead of calling me names, please explain part of post was "talking out of my ass?" I've marketed the best selling product in OREO's history. I developed a campaign for Dr Pepper that got the most ROI in the history of the brands 100 year marketing efforts. For the past 15 years, I've spent every day helping brands improve their marketing. Yet you think I'm talking out of my ass. Have you ever marketed anything? Have you ever put together a marketing plan? Have you ever written a communications plan for a company?

    #21 4 years ago

    What the hell is still broken on your LOTR?

    #22 4 years ago
    Quoted from Grinder901:

    What the hell is still broken on your LOTR?

    Ugh, don't get me started This guy picked it up to repair and it just sat for 3 months. Heading to Paul D. in NJ to get fixed once and for all.

    #23 4 years ago
    Quoted from kaneda:

    Ugh, don't get me started This guy picked it up to repair and it just sat for 3 months. Heading to Paul D. in NJ to get fixed once and for all.

    It's probably just a fuse.

    #24 4 years ago

    But do you know what's wrong with it? Did you have it up and running for that party you were throwing when you turned down my display offer?

    #25 4 years ago
    Quoted from Grinder901:

    But do you know what's wrong with it? Did you have it up and running for that party you were throwing when you turned down my display offer?

    So here's a list of what went wrong with it:

    - Left flipper stuck up
    - Transistor replaced by Eddie at Modern
    - When turned back on, game started smoking from back box
    - DMD died
    - Boards sent back to Stern. They replaced power board
    - New boards put in...game turned on and goes haywire...VUK just keeps going off and that's all
    - Replaced DMD with color one. That works, but now game won't start

    It's been a nightmare trying to get this thing fixed. I relied on people saying they could fix it, and have totally been taken. Good thing is no money changed hands and I'll only pay when it's done.

    #26 4 years ago
    Quoted from kaneda:

    It's been a nightmare trying to get this thing fixed. I relied on people saying they could fix it, and have totally been taken. Good thing is no money changed hands and I'll only pay when it's done.

    So I guess it's true that you really do get what you pay for?

    #27 4 years ago

    Welcome back keneda. Sorry to learn of family members passing.

    Also being in marketing I agree with almost all of your post. Especially today with social media, marketing does not have to equal expensive - just a dedication to "plan it out" and execute with laser precision to that overall plan.

    You mention RTB (Reasons to Believe). What you failed to mention is "Moments of Truth" (MOT). Every time your brand comes in contact with a customer is a moment that could influence purchase behavior now and in the future. Stern sort of gets it with game reveal & price once it's ready, managing channel of distribution, and very strong customer support once you get the game. But where they constantly fall down is announcing a premium long after initial release and unfinished code - it destroys RTB and is a big failure in MOT. Recent design flaws also impact MOT but creating "fixes" can hep restore.

    Unfortunately, instead of using online as a medium to leverage a relationship with customers and inform - Stern often ignores altogether and lets Jodi taunt and misdirect on Facebook. Failed MOT.

    #28 4 years ago
    Quoted from beelzeboob:

    So I guess it's true that you really do get what you pay for?

    Well, yes. But I did pay them to pick it up. And was quoted a price, which I was fine with. But to not fix it is crummy. I wouldn't agree to fix something if I didn't know how.

    #29 4 years ago
    Quoted from kaneda:

    It depends, right? A game that comes off of an assembly line like Stern, yes. They are milking it for these LE's. But JPOP is basically making a hand crafted masterpiece. It's just like cars. You've got $10,000 cars and $1,000,0000 cars now. They all get you from A to B. I'm not sure why pinball all has to be priced the same. Back in the 90's, everything was on an assembly line and games were all meant to be LE's without being LE's. But that industry collapsed. If you want that level of pinball, you know have to pay for all of what goes into making a game like that, but WITHOUT the factories, the huge teams helping out. It's now become an artisan skill that only a few have.
    Again, I'm not talking about billboards in Times Square marketing. I'm simply talking about a plan that communicates properly, has a timeline for activities, and builds excitement. I don't see any pinball companies doing this.

    It would still add to the cost.. and they are high enough. I think they are all doing fine, or would make changes.

    #30 4 years ago
    Quoted from badbilly27:

    Welcome back keneda. Sorry to learn of family members passing.
    Also being in marketing I agree with almost all of your post. Especially today with social media, marketing does not have to equal expensive - just a dedication to "plan it out" and execute with laser precision to that overall plan.
    You mention RTB (Reasons to Believe). What you failed to mention is "Moments of Truth" (MOT). Every time your brand comes in contact with a customer is a moment that could influence purchase behavior now and in the future. Stern sort of gets it with game reveal & price once it's ready, managing channel of distribution, and very strong customer support once you get the game. But where they constantly fall down is announcing a premium long after initial release and unfinished code - it destroys RTB and is a big failure in MOT. Recent design flaws also impact MOT but creating "fixes" can hep restore.
    Unfortunately, instead of using online as a medium to leverage a relationship with customers and inform - Stern often ignores altogether and lets Jodi taunt and misdirect on Facebook. Failed MOT.

    Very, very good points. It's a shame because if people didn't buy a Stern game until finished code was ready, we'd always get finished code games. But they are the only company that can scratch the itch for a new game, so they can sort of do what they like. However, I would argue that the Stern headaches and far less severe than the headaches created by the pre-order / boutique companies out there. I'd rather have an almost complete game waiting for code than no game at all. Stern knows that and ships accordingly with that insight in mind.

    What amazes me is this: when someone has an idea for a pinball machine, do they even tap a marketer / communications pro for advice? Well, the first advice they should seek is a financial advisor who can lay it out flat for them. Everyone is right, dollars for marketing come AFTER you've got money lined up to build the product. But that money should never come from your customer base. That one action alone is the reason why the house of cards continues to fall on start up pinball.

    -1
    #31 4 years ago
    Quoted from balboarules:

    It would still add to the cost.. and they are high enough. I think they are all doing fine, or would make changes.

    I know it's a hard pill to swallow, but pinball prices are going to keep rising. It's a luxury toy for your home now, and that means the sky's the limit. Within 10 years, we will see $50,000 HUO machines. Trust me. Too much passion and love to no have "unique" pinball machines that cater to rich out there. I think that's the market JPOP should fill. He's putting the attention of a Bentley into a desire to appease the masses (Honda). Silly approach.

    #32 4 years ago
    Quoted from kaneda:

    What amazes me is this: when someone has an idea for a pinball machine, do they even tap a marketer / communications pro for advice?

    TBL crew did tap a marketer (Phil) and as you stated it was a wonderful reveal. Really well done. Aside from having Jeff Bridges there in person it was well played. (Although with Terry's @ Pinball Life new look he could have passed for JB). They literally had people pulling out credit cards ready to buy and waiting for the CC reader to be available. Brilliant! They had every other pinball company looking like their cat had just died.

    Where they fell down was the backend business just wasn't ready. So much great marketing unraveling because the whole plan wasn't integrated. I'm pulling for them to rebound from this but they were close. (minus flipping off other manufacturers while on stage - failed MOT)

    #33 4 years ago

    Interesting OP. The last four years have been a wild ride. I doubt the future holds good marketing. I hope it holds great pinball!

    #34 4 years ago

    Marketing is the bullsh!t you give stupid people to buy the things they don't need.

    And it's expensive. The best way to advertise is to create a great product people can't stop talking about.

    #35 4 years ago
    Quoted from mattster:

    Marketing is the bullsh!t you give stupid people to buy the things they don't need.
    And it's expensive. The best way to advertise is to create a great product people can't stop talking about.

    Marketing is weak sauce. Final product dictates success, no exceptions.

    Case in point: Guardians of the Galaxy film. Commercial made film look like Marvel filler crapfest. Had a few friends see it, loved it. Then a few more, loved it. Then I took fam to see it, loved it. Told everyone I knew film was great. Word of mouth. Film went from opening weekend lackluster to long term blockbuster.

    #36 4 years ago
    Quoted from underlord:

    Marketing is weak sauce. Final product dictates success, no exceptions.
    Case in point: Guardians of the Galaxy film. Commercial made film look like Marvel filler crapfest. Had a few friends see it, loved it. Then a few more, loved it. Then I took fam to see it, loved it. Told everyone I knew film was great. Word of mouth. Film went from opening weekend lackluster to long term blockbuster.

    What are you talking about? Guardians was biggest august opening ever.

    http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/box-office-guardians-galaxy-amazes-723049

    #37 4 years ago
    Quoted from mattster:

    Marketing is the bullsh!t you give stupid people to buy the things they don't need.

    Quoted from underlord:

    Marketing is weak sauce.

    You guys do know that most products are built based on "marketing" requirements. Understand "voice of the customer" what they want/need, willingness to buy, what problem can the product/service solve. Yup, all marketing requirements.

    The fluff you and many others dislike about marketing I get. But keep in mind, the marketing fluff is just reminding the consumer on why they built what they built - based on the marketing requirements.

    "Doing business without advertising is like winking at a girl in the dark. You know what you're doing but no one else does". Necessary evil. PT Barnum knew this as well which is why they would parade the circus through towns to advertise the big show.

    Build it and they will come - is a recipe for disaster.

    #38 4 years ago
    Quoted from underlord:

    Commercial made film look like Marvel filler crapfest.

    I agree this is where Marvel marketing failed. Great movie though!

    #39 4 years ago
    Quoted from badbilly27:

    Build it and they will come - is a recipe for disaster.

    Taking a heavy pinball machine to every expo and show imaginable - burning up several machines worth of profit per trip - is also a recipe for disaster.

    Build it and they will come is slowly but surely working for us.

    #40 4 years ago

    I seriously doubt anyone will rush out to buy a $6000+ pinball machine from an ad or commercial. If you just wanted to get people playing pinball that would be something but pins on location are extremely rare. Pinball manufacturers are few and only a handful of titles are produced every year. Operators and pinball enthusiast keep up with things so marketing would be a waste on them. Convincing more individuals to put pins on location would be nice but that is a hard argument given the expense and high maintenance of any pin.

    #41 4 years ago

    *Edited by moderator*
    You say pin prices will be $50,000 in ten years?
    *Edited by moderator*
    I got my Lotr in trade for a game I paid 1,200 for.
    The whole time I had it it played perfect.
    *Edited by moderator*
    Really, go buy real estate or gold.
    Pinball is not an investment.
    It's not a hobby. It is life. Everything else is a game.
    *Edited by moderator*

    #42 4 years ago
    Quoted from benheck:

    Build it and they will come is slowly but surely working for us.

    You guys have done marketing though Ben. Early feedback on theme & toys, videos while building the game, videos launching the game - yup you did marketing. And I applaud you on the ongoing dialogue with customers on bug fixes and improvements. I know engineers hate to admit it, but you're doing marketing.

    I know engineers think it's cool to rebel against marketing rather than admit they are doing it. Your secret is safe with me.

    #43 4 years ago
    Quoted from benheck:

    Taking a heavy pinball machine to every expo and show imaginable - burning up several machines worth of profit per trip - is also a recipe for disaster.

    BTW...agree. No need to tow a machine to every show. Think SkitB is learning that too.

    #44 4 years ago
    Quoted from Collin:

    Did Kaneda ever actually pay that dude for Fix It Felix?

    Yup, that was taken care of a while ago. I also managed to snag another Felix machine that I'm currently having restored.

    #45 4 years ago

    OT: they making a sequel to Fix it Felix?

    -1
    #46 4 years ago
    Quoted from mrgone:

    *Edited by moderator*
    You say pin prices will be $50,000 in ten years?
    *Edited by moderator*
    I got my Lotr in trade for a game I paid 1,200 for.
    The whole time I had it it played perfect.
    *Edited by moderator*
    Really, go buy real estate or gold.
    Pinball is not an investment.
    It's not a hobby. It is life. Everything else is a game.
    *Edited by moderator*

    I own real estate long before I ever paid for a pinball machine. No mortgage before I bought my first pin. And golf clap to your LOTR trade. Game is with 5x that. And I said that in 10 years someone will make a super high end pin. That's all. Why are you so angry?

    #47 4 years ago
    Quoted from Grinder901:

    OT: they making a sequel to Fix it Felix?

    Yes

    #48 4 years ago

    I'm not into marketing but until these companies handle manufacturing right I can't see how any of this will help or is even relevant. I would think it would be hard to market a product where a company solicits 8k for a product that isn't even made and takes over a year to make and even then there are delays and drama. This seems to be the way new pins are done....8k and a year or more later. Two years from now it will be 10k and a year or more later you may see it. I would think this would be a hard sell to a non pinball enthusiast...

    #49 4 years ago
    Quoted from FishPharm:

    I'm not into marketing but until these companies handle manufacturing right I can't see how any of this will help or is even relevant. I would think it would be hard to market a product where a company solicits 8k for a product that isn't even made and takes over a year to make and even then there are delays and drama. This seems to be the way new pins are done....8k and a year or more later. Two years from now it will be 10k and a year or more later you may see it. I would think this would be a hard sell to a non pinball enthusiast...

    The only way for pinball makers to grow is to attract new buyers. And marketing can help expand the base. But again, you are right. You can't market something that's not ready. And yes a great pin will market itself. That was my very first point.

    #50 4 years ago

    while you make some good points, pinball is not oreos or dr pepper.those are both extremely successful products that are parts of a massive industry. every human on earth has an interest in eating and drinking, not the case with pinball.

    you talk alot about theme importance as if everyone wasnt already aware of that... its why every pin the last fifteen years has had a tie in.

    there is a big difference between marketing an individual product and an entire industry. your ideas seem to only go as far as marketing one machine from one manufacturer at a time, to make that machine successful. while your ideas would be great to take into account by the next pinball startup, i fail to see how this approach would do anything for our industry as a whole.

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