That would be great...

They are mad at pinside.

They keep trying to tell us stuff and everyone keeps telling them to shut their mouths and take their monies.

Well that was before Wrestlmania was announced...now I think they are legitimately hiding.

Last I heard no one was available to work ST. It would be nice if they announced their plans/intentions with code.

Why would they give a rat's ass about the people on here?
Complete Stern-hating dicks for the most part.

They announce a new system and new title and there are more bashing threads than positive comments.

That's why.

Yep, no one buys Sterns round these parts.
Don't have to be a Stern Hater not to like Wrestling, or a Stern cock gobbler to only buy new Sterns.

SAM is old hat, baby.

Yup, SAM is obsolete.

Yes, why care about paying customers? The thought!

Not liking wrestling is one thing. The threads and constant bitching is why Stern doesn't post on here from what I've heard.
I know if there was a forum about the work I do, and it was anywhere near this hostile, I wouldn't be a part of it.
Can you really blame them?

Still, they could have a section on their webpage called "Under Construction" with the next title that's getting an update.

I expect they do care about paying customers.
Why bother posting on a forum with non-paying little pricks though?

People on here aren't neutral. They're as negative as can be.

If this was a more positive environment, I expect we would hear from them, and be treated an "insiders".

Uh. Last time I checked Stern was pretty happy to take my money. Well, through Pinball Refinery, thanks Gio.

I highly doubt that. Believe me though, they all read Pinside, they know exactly what's going on here.

They did start experimenting briefly with letting us know about updates. It got lots of positive feedback. Then they stopped.

Edit: And they didn't make them on Pinside, it's fine if they don't post here. Plenty of ways to communicate to their customer base.

Stern has never posted on Pinside, even when it was tiny and was considered a much more positive place.

And frankly, given the posts I've seen them remove from their facebook page, it appears that they can't handle even the slightest of criticism, no matter how constructive.

If we all need to constantly kiss their ass in order to get them to post here, I don't want them to post here. What would be the point since they apparently can't handle constructive criticism on a forum?

Plus, they *do* read Pinside, so they are getting feedback from us anyway. What do we really need to hear from them? They aren't going to tell us what the next theme is going to be until it's nearly ready to be shipped. That's not how it is with the other companies that post here.

I think most people are accepting of the fact that they don't post here, especially since they never have. They don't need to post here like other start up companies do, where customer interaction is more important in terms of explaining what their products are about and to get people interested in those games.

_{Post edited by RobT: removed the word "don't" before the word "think"}

No, no. You must be right. There's got to be a great reason behind the fact that they only read these posts anonymously. Obviously they do want to hear some of the comments but they don't feel as though it's worthwhile to interact with us.

Pinside is pretty much the perfect test market to bounce their ideas off of and yet it's more as though they don't trust us or fear us. Can you blame them?

A friend of mine met one of the designers. He said that they pour their heart and soul into their work and can't stand all the negativity.
You have to be honest; the criticism on here isn't constructive, it's nearly completely destructive.
Complaints, complaints, complaints. Very few encouraging, supporting posts.
Their new system sounds like it's exactly what we've been begging for, and yet all I see on here is "Wrestling? Can you think of a worse theme? Idiots! They know nothing of pinball."

It's pretty f'n sad. Thankfully, I can enjoy pinball regardless of other people's comments and opinions.

There was a brief moment when that junior programmer on Mustang tried posting here about the rules. Then he vanished, presumably after having The Talk™ about Pinside.

Who is to say Stern doesn't regularly post and interact on this forum? They probably accomplish a lot in a covert way I would suspect. They'd be crazy to do their research under their own brand name here, wouldn't you agree?

Christ chambaz your talking to guys that spend 20-50k on new games. Fly out to expo and other shows.
The exact people stern needs to care about. And you know what if I spend over 40k with you I clearly said I love you and you better let me bitch some too.

Is Stern mad at my money too?

That's fine. I'm just gonna tuck those pesky hunnerds right back in theya!

image.jpg

That's exactly it though. Anyone I've talked to who has met any Stern employees (and really, nearly anyone involved in this hobby we all love) says that they're really cool and great to talk to.
I hear they all play pinball when they're not working, and it's more of a lifestyle than the job many of us do for a living.
We should be a perfect fit. We could vote on themes, make suggestions with respect to artwork and in return, maybe get discounts or advance info etc.
Consider this: Stern produces a dream theme with the Walking Dead, and the number one comment is: epic fail! Redneck voice!
I have RARELY seen a post from anyone even remotely pretending to understand that Stern is a company and that they have huge limitations on what they can do since they value their employees and "the line" first and foremost. Once in awhile yes, but when Underlord claimed that his insider friend, Guy, heard actual quotes from the show, and then we got "redneck", nobody seemed to consider that maybe AMC had final say. -this is certainly what JJP shared with us concerning the Hobbit and Smaug's interaction in the game.

I'm not saying that some negative comments aren't warranted. Of course there's a huge difference between criticism and flaming.

OP asked why Stern doesn't share more info with us and I'm suggesting that it's because they're treated like sh!t on here. You are allowed to disagree and instead say it's for another reason if you like.

It's just not the reason though. Lots of us talk to Stern employees. It's a small industry, it's really not a big deal or all that rare. I don't know if you come down to the US for things like Expo, but everyone is just hanging out together. Oh look, there's Lyman and Ritchie, enjoying a game I won't mention so it doesn't get back to Gary.

And it's totally fine. They don't need to post here. It's cool to get stories from back in the day from Keefer, I love it when he sets the record straight, but he generally doesn't discuss his current work here. Stern doesn't need to either.

Put it on Facebook, that's fine. It will get repeated here. There's a whole pinball world outside of Pinside, we're not the center of the universe here. Use official channels, we'll get the message. But this ivory tower of silence sucks ass.

Ironic that the post you have just made is exactly why a lot of people/companies don't post more on here.

Personally I see more love for stern on here than any other company. It's just the forums are often heavily influenced by a vocal minority who are often overly opinionated one way or the other.

This forum probably sells more machines for Stern than any other avenue. Since they're marketing is often pretty basic, I'd suggest they are lucky it exists as a contact with the community.

Maybe they should set up their own forums like PPS. Or maybe PINSIDE should allocate manufacturers a "one way/locked" part of the forum where they can post updates etc, without feedback. People can give feedback on "xyz" on other threads but not on the company "owned" thread. Just an idea.

Stern doesn't have to post anything on pinside. I don't care where they publish the information, just that it's communicated.

Chambaz we were drinking with Ritchie on a patio in Chicago. I took the tour with Greg F. Gomez is one of my favorite designers and FB friend and I saw him in Chicago.
Don't take fair criticism for huge money spent to think A. We are not customers because we clearly are and B that we don't respect and even admire these individuals.
You are confusing things.

Awesome idea. They could add polls as well if they wanted to weigh our opinions.

I hear what you're saying but you have to also clearly understand that you alone are not Pinside.
In general, Pinsiders bitch and whine about everything. The MMR remakes and the progress/lack thereof, WOZ, the Hobbit and JJP, Predator... I mean, pretty much everything! Jack Guarnieri even said that Pinsiders are brutal; that if you want anything found, sick Pinsiders on it.

I was at a friend's place on the weekend. He has about 16 pins. I love the variety but of course, I like some much more than others. Not once did I say: "this pin sucks" or "I hate this game". just focus on the good stuff that you do like. It's not that hard. You don't need to throw around insulting comments about how much Gary Stern drinks or that maybe some people should get a collection together and sue Stern for not finishing the code.

Maybe it's just me, but I see Stern as being the best thing about pinball right now. They're currently the only company that's producing multiple titles each year to choose from. If you don't like a new pin, button your lip and play something else. Or be constructive.
Sterns newest title has a lot going for it with all the advancements in technology. Better sound, LCD, etc, and yet nobody seems to be jazzed about future titles, instead it's mostly comments like "Who watches wrestling anymore!".

Because this is a forum, no matter what anyone posts, there are people who are exceptions to the rule.
Maybe you cross the line, maybe you don't. I'll let you decide.
I'm saying that in general, this is not a positive place.

He knows who he's talking to.

Those figures are just the tip of the iceberg for some collectors 'round here - the types that can't be bothered w/ the tripe Andy's describing that continually floats to the top on pinside and therefore don't contribute.

The same shit that would deter any manufacturer from taking most people here seriously (I think it was said best on the c2c podcast re dp - that Barry was getting laughs at the responses from pinsiders who were saying "fuck it - I'm out" - when they weren't even in....).

Lyman described it well in his interview w Clay - back in the day when the rgp started he liked it better - probably because it was the universities that had web access and in general a different cross section of people at the start - now, too much human nature and all the respective baloney. Sound familiar?

chambahz isn't referring to me but I've hung w the designers, and there's one in town now that may visit in fact. When I spent time w SR and LS I can tell you that ST is Steve's pride and they ain't done - keeping a manufacturing line running is priority, that's a fact. Gary would clone Lyman if he could.

I don't like the theme!

I don't like the lack of updates!

I dont like the lack of code - at first!

Boycott Stern!

Boycott JJP!

Get the rope - we're gonna string up Jpop!

And those guys Barry and Jaap.....

Havent played WWE but let's recount the designers track record - theyre all turds!

Spike? Who's the Costello fan and it's a turd anyway because I don't like Costello.

If i spend 20-40k I expect Gary to kiss my fucking ass!

....

For those that "fly out to the shows" I'd love to see you spout the shit you spout here directly to those you insult.

I think the real question here is why the fuck do I let myself be bothered w the obvious lack of respect on any level - design, manufacturing or simply human decency....

It's probably because like I've said before - I think pinball deserves better.

Those that complain like children think they're passionate for simply buying or playing a game. Try dedicating your life to the game in design or manufacture and then have some nobody loudmouths rip you apart constantly.

Flame on. Because you cant help it.

ttfn

Fucking hilarious.

Huge money? Think again.

Oooh he's your FB buddy, whoa.

How do u think he got to that fucking patio?

Probably a middle ground somewhere in there. Like I said I clearly don't boycott Stern. And I will have to disagree 20k for some and like you said well over 50k for many of us is a voice to listen to.
My point is I hope they do have the ability to siftbthriugh the crap and hopefully tackle some of the relavant issues.
Look it's normal that it trickles south that's human nature.
But there is good stuff in there.

Calm down sparky. My point is we are decent customers who like and respect these guys. Wtf is your point?

build a Maiden, they will come. including me.

Lol, the next kick ass theme will have us all running. They know it and we are all like heroin addicts with our hobby.

Respect these guys? Bullshit.

Chambahz hit it on the fucking head and you gotta tell him he doesnt know who he's talking to?

You have no clue who you're talking to.

You ended up talking to SR on that patio because Todd M and I invited him up. And a whole bunch of others too, but only the 2 came.

Rod

I don't care. Your not telling me I don't respect and care about these guys. It's my hobby dork bag. We both mean nothing to each other . I am as worthless to you as you to me. So get over it.
I love these guys and respect their work.
I still get to demand a decent working game after paying 8k for it and it has nothing to do with how much respect I have for them.
I don't blame them for a theme choice the top office has to pursue . I get it.
Nice of you to pop in and proclaimed your all importance though. All hail...

Ok, so when you guys are done circle jerking with sr and ls on the patio, ask them where the software updates are before you ask for the happy finish.

Sorry where I come from the only way you can demand anything from guys like these is if you're paying them, and you're not.

And then you insinuate well it's the brass that's responsible for theme choice so I guess you draw your respect line at the designers.

If it were a matter of sitting around shooting the shit over beers w these guys it would be one thing. But it's all done publicly and totally unabashed and when someone like chambahz starts to make some sense well shit we better find the excuses to shut him up and run the rant.

My importance? You ran the "I hung w Ritchie" line to shut chambahz down.

It's not your hobby, it's anybody's hobby, and it's a good hobby w a lot of passionate people and some who try to make a living at it that deserve better than the average attitude here.

Btw you are not worthless to me, I bet you a few drinks at expo and we will find our middle ground.

Rod

True dat! Drinks on me : )

Dave

Trust??? We don't trust them.
ST LE has been out over a year, and there are features that have 0 code for them.
Pride, heart, and soul...
We wait years to get finished code.
We are tired of the BS.
They treat their customers like crap.

Ok, that's fine. Your point is well taken. However, you don't have to buy their games.

Please don't blame the programmers. They do NOT get to just pick what to work on, they are told what to work on. You know, like when you work for someone and get paid. The people that sign the paychecks and such.

I also want to point out that a lot of the programing that makes these games amazing is NEVER paid for in full by Stern. A lot of the highly refined and finished Stern titles are worked on "after hours" by dedicated people who care more about pinball than money.

Most of my comments are aimed at Gary Stern.
Code on ST isn't great, programmers wrote the code.

Ok, replace "THEY" with Gary if that is your intention. There are MANY times when Gary could have just closed up when pinball was not that profitable, but he didn't. I know about the code gripes and such and it's easy to blame Gary. But his goal is to keep people like programmers and assembly line workers employed in the pinball industry. If games had updates as often as Pinsiders wanted, Stern would be out of business. Are games pushed out before they are 100% complete? Of course they are... there really is no other way to keep things rolling. Pinball in stages is better than no pinball at all.

He needs to hire more programmers for legacy games.
Waiting 6 months to a year for code is ridiculous.
I am not talking about code every week.
Features should have code coming out of the box.
There is no excuse for bad customer service.

Its not that simple and software is really hard to put on a schedule. It is done when it is done especially when you have a team working multiple deadlines at the same time. Just look at what happened when Stern let us know there was an update coming for ST. Suddenly the scope of the update changed significantly because of people cheating at Expo and the whole schedule got blown out. Now the usual rebel rousers are out with pitchforks and torches.

JJP learned this too with constant missed promises on the WOZ release. Its better to say nothing than promise something that you can't provide with 100% certainty.

They = Stern management and Jody the Monkey as well.

JJP also released substantial code updates for WOZ every month (sometimes two updates) for nearly a year and communicated with customers between each update. I like Stern games but their frequency with code updates and communication about them is terrible. 1 code update for some games in a year or more? Ridiculous.

Many of us ACDC owners are still waiting for that games code to be completed (canon modes for one) and it's now been nearly two years since the last substantial update...

Man, I just can't refrain from responding to this ignorant comment that Hwawonyu made:

"I still get to demand a decent working game after paying 8k for it and it has nothing to do with how much respect I have for them."

No you do not. You get "THE CODE" and "THE GAME" that you paid for on the day the game was 8K and NOTHING MORE! If they release code updates, it's a bonus.

Or did you get some "special agreement' in writing, promising you updates after you buy?

You need to wake the f up. Wait til the game is done and then play it to decide if you're mad about spending 8K for it.

I don't have to buy their games, but I am stuck with ST, and the code isn't great.
If I sell it, I am going to lose money.
I want Stern to make the code incredible.
I won't buy another Stern.

Most software manufacturers update their code over time.
Even video games...
If they didn't fix their software, they wouldn't be in business anymore.

So now you are saying Stern HAS to release updates because Video game manufacturers do?

I can only say that you are wrong. No GAME manufacturer ever HAS to release updates at all. As long as it is not in some formal obligation or agreement with the purchaser.

You have no such agreement with any "software game" that you buy as a consumer. Please show me one where you do. Most "updates" that you are speaking of are released to address security flaws in game software to protect the company releasing the software and not the consumer buying the game.

I have news for you.
The code has flaws.
Steve admitted to the problems at an Expo in November, and extra features do absolutely nothing.
It is called good customer service for a luxury item.
You might like bad service.
I expect good customer service.