It was that or the condo Gary wanted in Maui.

^^ http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/how-to-become-a-better-pinsider

@OP, many DE games had kickers, but yeah, they kind of fizzled out. Stern seems to favor strong slingshots, flippers, and pop bumpers that shoot the ball everywhere as the player madly tries to control it. It also keeps the ball times short, which helps operators.

I learn to love games for what they are, but outlane kickers seem are something that beginners enjoy. We had a T2 in our arcade for awhile and every time the ball was shot back the kid's playing it would go "whoa".

Big Buck Hunter had one...

In the outlane?

I would like a manual kickback like Defender had. It has an extra button below the left flipper button. I can't remember what you had to do to light the kickback...or if you just got 1 per ball, but it's just like a regular kickback except you have to manually activate it. I don't know if any other games had that or not.

The only thing that feels better than successfully saving the ball with the kickback is when you have a ball drain between the flippers and roll over to the left side and you bring it back with the manual kickback.

Bring back that feature...I liked that.

Well, it's on WOZ, sort of.

Bumper kick out...that will take some skills.

As I said in another thread I always asumed Stern put their foot down and outlawed it (probably paranoia). SR is a kickback monster and hasn't had one in years other that T3 which is a remake...hmm...maybe Star Trek will have one?

Why not have them...you're not selling for location games anymore.

That's odd, it is clearly visible in the Stern promo video on their website for BBH. I wonder if they removed it to cut costs.

Naw...they would never do something like that.

I love kickbacks as well. JM has a ball save for the left lane that launches a new ball if its lit and you drain. Its just not as satisfying as the kickback on my SOF was.

TSPP kickback was cost cut too.

That's odd, it is clearly visible in the Stern promo video on their website for BBH. I wonder if they removed it to cut costs.

BBH design was a cost cut. pics of original design.

bbh1.jpg bbh2.jpg bbh3.jpg

It would have been nice to have one on TRON...as fast as that ball drains! Would be nice to have a save every once in awhile...

Maybe it is to lessen ball times and increase payout for operators. Since they are paying more per pin to operate now. It becomes even harder without the right area and location.

I like the outlane ball drain save in IJ a lot, really fits the theme, but would work on other themes as well.

TSPP kickback was cost cut too.

BBH design was a cost cut. pics of original design.

That doesn't have a kickback on it, does it? I don't know if that really looks they redesigned to cut cost much. I see it has an upper flipper, but no buck track or pivoting elk (from what I can see).

I also looked at the promo video and see what could look to be a kickback in the apron...but looking at the outlane...I don't think it was. Wouldn't the left side of the left outlane have to have a smooth ball guide for a kickback to work. In the video it just has posts there.

I also noticed my X-Men LE apron also looks like that (with a bit of a gap on the left side).

I hadn't really thought about the kickback being retired for awhile. Stern is bringing back the in line targets for Metallica so maybe Star Trek will get some retro love with a kickback.

bigbuck.jpg

Money.

The extra cost of implementing such a device is too much in relation to what you can apply to the main playfield.

However, I wonder why parcial/all timed/permanent ball saver is seen on so few pinball machines. Parcial meaning one outlane, both outlanes, all drain sources etc. Indiana Jones The Pinball Adventure is one that comes to mind. It has ball saver implemented into the rules on a least two accounts.

I'd like to see much more of that. Timed ball saver awards which you statigicly can use for making dangerous shots.

Kick backs rule! Future Spa even had one!

Perhaps it is an unfair advantage to the player, it lengthens the game for novices thus lowering overall game income for the operator.
Less quarters in the cashbox equals less new money the operator will put back into pinballs.

I was originally thinking a "throw it back" kickback on Fish Tales would have been great, but short ball times is one of the best things about the game. There is just something brutally beautiful about difficult games.

Yeah another tight arse maneuver by Stern. No replay knockers, no kickback... Ahhh what next...

Nothing beats the kickback off the soccer ball into the goal for a Bicycle Kick award on WCS!

I like this idea.

Im especially thinking of ACDC- where it doesn't only punish you for missing a critical shot- you can be punished for MAKING a critical shot

Example: something like a 2-second ball saver whenever you shoot the canon and HIT your target would make sense...

Kickback was removed on Scared Stiff as well. The cut out is still there so I heard you can actually put one there.

Likely due to the ramps being so low in the PF.