Bottom line, whatever you think of the game, is it's just too expensive for most people. Is what it is, but if it was cheaper you'd see a lot more interest.

Sure, it's not price alone. But you have to look at what you're getting for the price. Original theme is super cool, love that. But it doesn't have the nostalgia kick for people, it's harder to move an original theme, like it or not.

Plain DMD is another. MMr has an LCD (supposedly full color someday, we'll see). TBL, full color widescreen LCD. Hobbit, huge LCD, lots of quality animation. They're expensive, but you're getting more for your money.

The sounds are a big mystery. MMr obviously isn't. TBL has movie clips, but also 24 (or is it 26, I forget) licensed songs. Hobbit has Thiel on the music and movie clips.

Etc. (I'm leaving Jpop's vaporware out of this.)

If you're going to try and charge $8k for your game you've got to compete at the level of other games in that price range IMHO. Being an original theme and a boutique game is already an uphill fight. Anything that handicaps you is just going to make the hill steeper.

I hope Riot finds a way to succeed. But ultimately for what they're offering it's an expensive game and a tough sell.

Sorry, but no. If you want to charge me $8k for a game ... well first off, I'm probably not buying. But if I am, then yeah, I expect a color display, color changing LEDs, and all the modern trappings. Because otherwise why would I pay eight thousand dollars for a pinball game?

Hey, if you don't agree then by all means get a WOOLY. I'm not trying to talk anyone out of it. But it didn't make 100 pre-orders, someone asked why, and as far as I'm concerned that's the reason. It's too expensive for what you get.

You're missing the point. It's an EIGHT THOUSAND dollar pinball machine. I'm not breaking down the BOM, or what Riot is making off of it. I'm telling you what I expect for that kind of money. And that includes a color display, color changing LEDs (and rules that incorporate them) and I can't add them to my machine later for a few hundred dollars.

The BOM and price isn't my problem. If Scott basically designed a game that's not sellable then so be it. But the question was why aren't people buying it. And the answer is it's too much money.

And yet people do that all the time. Well not 20%, because you can't scale that over to a car, but thousands more. Personally I'd really miss iDrive if you took it out of my car.

It's kind of pointless to go off into the weeds about car systems though, it's really not related.

Either way, it doesn't really matter if you see the value. Or if I do. We're talking about the general market here. And it's pretty clear that the people have spoken, and the game is just too expensive as is.

Maybe they can make it happen still just from getting it in front of more people.

Maybe they can reduce the BOM and lower the price.

Maybe they keep the price but up things to a color display.

Wish them the best.

That's not the BOM on WOOLY. That's what it costs right now to build a one-off prototype. Very different proposition.

Just curious, what makes it not worth it to you? The art and look of things?

If you're expecting to buy a boutique game, from anyone, for Stern Pro prices, then might as well just give up on every buying one. Just can't be done, the numbers aren't there. But I get expecting value for your money.

AMH has a little bit of a homebrew feel to it. Because that's what it was. It was the efforts of a very small team, figuring things out as they went. I think it's awesome. But I agree it doesn't feel as polished as "commercial" games from bigger companies. And I totally get that it doesn't feel worth as much because of that to some people who are looking for a certain type of game.

Packaging counts!

It's really almost as important as theme in some ways.