there's already a thread dedicated to it. and yes there is a preorder because they needed 100 people before they even started I thought.

It got love from me and 50 others, plus some who weren't going to purchase. Hopefully there will be 150 WOOLYs in the near future.

$8k for a DMD pin.

I love this game. If I had the coin I'd put it toward this game

It's still a bit off. $8k is rough. I'd be in at $7-$7500

It's a shame that being 7% overpriced is enough to keep you from buying.

You gotta draw the line somewhere.

you need to set a limit somewhere. Problem with this site is, most don't know anything about limits.

Bottom line, whatever you think of the game, is it's just too expensive for most people. Is what it is, but if it was cheaper you'd see a lot more interest.

Can't be price only. Or you would not see a single Hobbit sold. Or MMr. Or TBL. Or Magic Girl. Or RAZA.
Allergy to the preorder model, Non licensed theme and DMD are additional reasons. Limited exposure to the game is another.

Was - and is still - proud to be among the 50 nonetheless.

I really like the looks of this game. But after my woz experience (3 years of waiting) no more pre orders for me. If they produce the game I will buy one if the quality is there. I am just concerned a lot of these games will never be made. And I am not going to commit until they are made.

8k is just too high you can get a Stern LE or even a JJP LE for cheaper; they need to be closer to 7k. And it is only a DMD too

The art work did not appeal to my sensibilities. I really never gave it a look after I looked.

I don't understand what point you're trying to convey here.

Sure, it's not price alone. But you have to look at what you're getting for the price. Original theme is super cool, love that. But it doesn't have the nostalgia kick for people, it's harder to move an original theme, like it or not.

Plain DMD is another. MMr has an LCD (supposedly full color someday, we'll see). TBL, full color widescreen LCD. Hobbit, huge LCD, lots of quality animation. They're expensive, but you're getting more for your money.

The sounds are a big mystery. MMr obviously isn't. TBL has movie clips, but also 24 (or is it 26, I forget) licensed songs. Hobbit has Thiel on the music and movie clips.

Etc. (I'm leaving Jpop's vaporware out of this.)

If you're going to try and charge $8k for your game you've got to compete at the level of other games in that price range IMHO. Being an original theme and a boutique game is already an uphill fight. Anything that handicaps you is just going to make the hill steeper.

I hope Riot finds a way to succeed. But ultimately for what they're offering it's an expensive game and a tough sell.

They need to reduce their BOM & selling price, that simple.

Its a fun game but for $8k it has to have a LCD for me to buy.

First reason is that it costs $8k plus shipping.

It would have a long wait

It had a pre-order involved.

I can not see a lot of interactive toys, LCD, magnets or subways again this goes back to the price.

Sound, music and call outs are not to everyone's taste. One example I hear joke call outs as if it's Monty Python meets Greek Mythology some may like that some may want a more serious treatment.

Main reason appears to be price and pre-order model,

I'm not sure why I'm even commenting, since I haven't paid more than $5k for a game, and haven't played WOOLY...

...but it's sad for pinball that an LCD would be enough to change minds on WOOLY. Really? This is because JPP released a game at that price point with an LCD? Are you planning to scrap your pinball games down the road and sell the LCD separately? It's probably a $100-$200 addition - a fancy screen that can't even look at while you're playing.

I agree that all machines probably will (and should) move in that direction, but making price demands based on them is silly. Remind me again - exactly how many games with LCDs have actually shipped? Stern adds a few cosmetic changes, 0 or 1 things that impact gameplay, slaps on a unique plaque and charges an extra $2k-$3k for an LE. And hundreds of people pay it. Oh, and then they'll finish the code 18 months later if enough people buy pros and they have the time to get around to it.

People are buying games for $8k, plain and simple. Maybe we "shouldn't be", but it's too late now (unless suddenly people start putting their money back in their pockets instead of bitching about prices and then buying anyway).

If you guys made your own boutique game in this market, what would you do - compete with Stern Pros on price? Hell no - you'd compete on the quality of gameplay, theme, artwork, and code. If boutique builders could come in and make a profit commensurate with the incredible risk involved at a lower price point - someone would be doing it. Until then, the only "low" prices we're going to see is from the only company with an assembly line mentality to churn out as many games as possible - at a price point which people also bitch about.

yes, but the price point failed...

Sorry, but no. If you want to charge me $8k for a game ... well first off, I'm probably not buying. But if I am, then yeah, I expect a color display, color changing LEDs, and all the modern trappings. Because otherwise why would I pay eight thousand dollars for a pinball game?

Hey, if you don't agree then by all means get a WOOLY. I'm not trying to talk anyone out of it. But it didn't make 100 pre-orders, someone asked why, and as far as I'm concerned that's the reason. It's too expensive for what you get.

8k just too much. 5-6k would be about right. Hard for anyone to buy a game most haven't played either.

Dont like price, theme and lay out. Still a bit surprised interest is low. must be tons of people that like this theme. I think.

Too many have had their fill of pre-orders, high end prices, waiting, and DMD technology.

It's like Gary Stern always says:

Everybody cries for a non-licensed theme; but when you offer one for sale, only 50 people buy it.

Maybe Riot will do a port of WOOLY on the P3 system and we'll see it go that route...could be good and help move some more P3's when/if they make it to production

Unfortunate timing mostly.

Exactly. And neither are most people who say they "would pay $X tops".

I understand this logic, but it's unfortunate because production costs for a color display and color changing LEDs are a few hundred at most - certainly not the thousands of dollars of "value" that potential buyers seem to place on them.

I guess that's a good lesson for boutique builders.

I'm just throwing out numbers here, but if they make $3k profit selling at $8k, then lowering to $7k will cut profits by a third...and they'd have to sell 50% more machines to make that up...all other things being equal (which they're not, because it's much more work to build and support 50% more machines).

I can just about guarantee they wouldn't sell 50%+ more machines at $7k, but unfortunately there really isn't a way to test that hypothesis.

You can't price something saying at x I will make x amount if the truth is no sales equal no profit . 10% real profit is better than 100% of zero.
And now it's no work to support no machines.

People arguing that it is too expensive and the lcd screen is a deal killer on a pin need to reexamine mmr. I truly believe the reason wooly didnt get the # of pre orders needed to green light it was because it is an original theme. Riot's best bet would have been to build 50 or so, put them on location and make sure they get as much exposure possible, and let it sell Itself (which it would have done). $$$ stops being a road block when you really want something.

You're missing the point. It's an EIGHT THOUSAND dollar pinball machine. I'm not breaking down the BOM, or what Riot is making off of it. I'm telling you what I expect for that kind of money. And that includes a color display, color changing LEDs (and rules that incorporate them) and I can't add them to my machine later for a few hundred dollars.

The BOM and price isn't my problem. If Scott basically designed a game that's not sellable then so be it. But the question was why aren't people buying it. And the answer is it's too much money.

First, love Wooly, most here do, but I don't like the price and apparently most people don't also.

Second, there are only so many people willing or able to spend $8000 on one pin (it's in the ballpark of 2 Stern pro pins).

Third, people have money tied up in:
-MMR
-TH
-MG
-RAZA
-TBL
-WWE LE
-Predator
-Full Throttle / Alien
or may want/desire to buy 1-4 pre-owned pins for $8K

It also seems like people are starting to lose faith in pre-orders in general.
Too many vaporware machines out there and not enough pins actually built and shipped.

Also, people may also be starting to realize that they likely want to play a game once or twice to be sure they like it before deciding to buy it.

And simply too expensive for a lot of folks.

ANY pinball at $8k is too rich for me. I'm struggling to pay $6k for an AMH, but I feel AMH is worth what they're charging comparing it to a Stern. While Stern has greatly improved quality and done some good titles, they still feel a bit cookie cutter.

Comparing Spooky to other startups, I have faith in that they are building every week, so I know I'm actually going to get it (not wait while the startup scratches their head how to mass produce it)

First off I started following the Wooly project. I thought it was going to be a be a great project. It was going to be an affordable kick butt solid state game. Really thought it was going to be affordable. Then it kept advancing more and more. Once again I liked every advancement. Everything kept getting cooler and cooler with everthing added. Eventually added DMD and cooler tweaks here and there. Now the price tag is 8k. And if it was all by itself it might fair a little better. But now there is a lot of different choices to pull what I feel is a decreasing number of buyers. Since the over abundance of choices. Don't get me wrong competion is great. It leads to higher quality imho. But I still think there is only so much pinball money out there and it is getting diluted with choices.

Although I can't afford it, the game is really good, and the art is killer. I loved playing it at Expo and it would be a great game to own, tons of shots. What's keeping it down?.....Bad timing, price, and people say they want original themes, but they really don't.

It's easy, theme isn't anywhere near as good as the alternative options. Not saying game play isn't there, but the initial interest in any game is theme, this one doesn't have a good theme.

There either is no market for this game, or they don't know how to reach a market for it, which is the same as there being no market.

Lots of possible reasons for this, already outlined in this thread, but ultimately the market has spoken.

I agree, the price point is too high for an unproven company. I think the theme appeals to many but nobody is willing to take the chance on losing money on the secondary market (if the theme is not embraced). Stern knows that licensing is important - it captures a significant audience right from the start. How many people ran out and bought Tron, ACDC, MET, ST, TWD, Xmen before it was produced or had complete rules? Why? Great licenses. Even if the games sucked they would still sell for a reasonable price on the secondary market - even if the core pinheads dumped them. WWE will sell ok as well because of the license.

Also agree with colour changing LEDs, and colour DMDS being mandatory on a pin of this cost if you want to attract buyers that are sitting on the fence.

It needs to be marketed at more shows as it is a nice pin.

Great pin though

Rednecks like shiny things and Wrath of Olympus is not shiny enough.

(Disclaimer: I love WOOLY, and if I had 8k to blow, it would be first on my list)

People pay 8K for pinball machines every day that do not have anything of the things that you say are critical at the price point. It's more timing and RIOT not having the start up money. AMH looks cool and I'd like to own one but if it's a 6K machine I can easily see WOOLY as an 8K machine. If you could just buy a WOOLY they would likely steadily be moving much like AMH. It's the preorder model more then BOM, price, LCD, LED's, etc. If you could just order one and have it within 3 months I htink they would sell 100 no problem.

I've seen it at expo last two years and it just doesn't grab me.
Think it looks fun but for 8k I'm not interested at all.

AMH seems like a better buy at 6k imo

Theme and price.

I like the theme and don't like the price. Too many pre orders holding money for years and never delivering a pin. And then there's the NIB machines you receive being buggy and incomplete for years after that. Pre orders are dead and good riddance. Jjp jpop vonnie d Dutch pinball and skit b. only people I see ever doing a preorder again are spooky customers and word is they won't do preorders again anyway. Even stern releases crappy NIB and makes you wait years for code completion.

Add on top of that the advancements in pinball tech just coming into play with spike and LCD screens and whatever else. Best to hang onto your money or buy a used (complete) pin while you wait for the newer pins to get broken in by the operators.

Exactly the reasons why I was in and will be again once they find a way to get it made.

Of course I would like the price to be lower but I think WOOLY is worth the splurge. It just clicks for me as a must have.

I have yet to regret a pre order...just saying

Wooly looks awesome, better than any Stern.

I love it but have no funds to buy one. I also think it is pricey but it is also loaded.