And Gary Stern stayed in the pinball business under DE...

I enjoyed the DE Star Wars I had. The code was not complete, so there were some odd moments. Later, much of this was fixed; but I thought it was a fun game - especially for the money.

Lol this! And the rules are pretty shallow and easy on most

Yes we all know that.

I've never had an issue changing the GI bulbs. Seriously? I'd be embarrassed to admit I can't change a bulb. The other sad part (aside from not being able to change a bulb, that's bad enough) is you're probably not being sarcastic.

All the people who think the rules are shallow and easy should be ranking very high in the leagues and holding several high scores, and also should have been able to beat every Data East game they've played in just a few quick games then. I see no evidence to support that out of any of the people who have commented on that aspect.

In addition, wouldn't shallow and easy rules help encourage younger kids and novice players to play the games? I don't see that as a downside.

Agreed, DE are for newbs & children

Yes. It is a very fun different game. Keep a pinball score and a football score. Great sounds too. I loved it.

Nice work but Black and Orange would look better. WHODEY!!

I am not a young kid with no real understanding of pinball rules. So, to me, they are shallow and less fun. Sorry to hurt your feelings I guess. Just saying my opinion about DE games.

Things always seem a lot more broken on the DE games I come across.

As for the bulbs, it is commonly agreed upon that changing stapled in GI sucks. In most other manufacturers you can unscrew socket, pop in bulb and move on .Whats your deal insulting people who point out annoyances in DE games? It's just a fact stapled in GI sucks. Same with system 11 games. Nightmare to change comparatively.

Ok, so lets be fair here... Up till now I've had ZERO issues with my DE games... Pinball Arcade works great on all of my devices!

I'll go round for round with you on any Bally / Williams / Midway / Stern or Gottlieb game if you think my appreciation for Data East means I'm a child with little skill.

This is new to me. I've never seen it in any of the Data East games I've owned or played.

What's your deal with insulting Data East & people who enjoy them?

I love DE, but any game you own you have to acknowledge where the faults are. Every game I own, I know where the strengths and weaknesses are. Every game has them. EVERY GAME. For me the negative points would be the midi file keyboard grundge music they seem to do in a lot of the DMD titles. It was annoying. But the sound was true stereo and sounded fantastic. not distorted like B/W games were around that time. Rules are shallow on the early stuff, but became just as complex as B/W stuff in the full size DMD era.

DE/Sega/Stern are all the same company. Same people, just different partners.

DONE

Blah blah blah...you love posting this all the time. Technically it's true, just like Ford made mustangs in the 60s, early 80s, and present...doesn't mean they are equal.

You should check out the gallery section...it may enlighten you.

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Dollar games? I'm in. Haha. I'm horribly awesome at pinball.

I have heard the best/worst around!

Lol I haven't made any personal comments. Chill. I don't hate data east games. They just aren't anywhere close to as quality built or fun to me as other games I've owned.

Every data east ever I've worked on has had stapled in gi.

I was just stating it for the question that said, where would stern be if DE never entered the pinball business. Just saying they would be exactly where they are now, just called something different back then.

I see what you mean, I have some like that but they're not an annoyance or nuisance to me. I just don't see what the big deal is. If you're doing it right, you're going to take off the plastic and anything else on top of the bulb and clean and polish everything and wax the play field when you're in there, and probably put in an LED so you won't have to change it again for a long time. What's so hard about that?

I guess people who like to cut corners and just slap a quick "shop" job on things would have a problem with stapled lighting sockets. And I can see how it would be a bit of an inconvenience to an operator motivated by profits just looking to swap a cheap bulb out quick.

I'd be willing to bet most of the people with issues regarding stapled GI bulbs are the same types who just bend the screwed in bulb sockets down to change them instead of unscrewing them from the play field. It seems lazy to me.

OMG, wait... wasn't the bulb sockets suppose to bend?

well to be honest most suck except for a few GNR Batman Forever Tommy Baywatch ect

It would not surprise me if it was engineered to be bent and repkace bulbs. Time is money. If they (engineers) determine that bulb needs replacing 5 times during the life of routing or operation, just engineer the bracket metal thickness to not brake from bending until 10 or 15 times.

Whatever sockets Marcos sells didn't get that much thought put into it. I bought 5, every single one of them snapped before I even finished the first bend.

I wouldn't say DE gets "no love," especially after reading this thread, so bad thread title is bad.

All games have their pros and cons. DE titles have some cons in common with each other. Despite this, they're still pinball, so they're awesome anyway.

I doubt many get sent in for the HEP treatment or the like, though!

I don't think it is appropriate to insult someone just because they like DE games with their "too easy" rule features like 3rd ball gimme multiballs. But Chad's improvements to the ROMs are gradually making that argument moot. (Yay, Chad!)

That was not the issue. On some years, DE machines did not have the socket you could bend. They had the type with two short legs stapled and soldered between braids. The only way to change the bulb was removed the plastics on top and go from above.

That is the ONLY thing I really hate in SOME DE's. Other years they did use the bendable/screwable sockets.

Another thing DE did from time to time was not use connectors for above playfield assemblies so it makes repairs fun fun fun when you have to break out a soldering iron to remove a ramp.

But in all I've owned 4 DE's and loved them all. Swallow rules and all.

Stapled sockets are not exclusive to DE.

Ayup, true, but most vendors stopped using them under complex stacked parts of the playfield. Back in the old Bally/Stern days stapled socket were common when you only had to remove a screw or two on the topside.

the rules are not that shallow. JP, Tommy, TFTC, GNR, LAH have similar rules to RS, TAF, TZ, IJ. All the basic elements are there. Rules are almost the same. To say JP is shallow, is like saying TZ and TAF are shallow.

WWFRR has a very deep rule set and a very hard to beat wizard mode. I LOVE the fact that the machine penalizes you if you try to cradle during the Rumble! Makes it VERY hard to beat.

Data East tried there best to compete with B/W. Because of this we got some good kitchen sink games in 93-94. I have owned GNR and TFTC. Data East took a risk on TFTC and it really turned out great. Props to them for doing the theme right with full blood and gore. Same thing Stern just did with TWD.

Starship Troopers was a hassle because of the staples. All GI needed to be accessed top side and it sucked having to remove that massive one piece ramp.

I own 3, r&b, simpson, and time machine. Love time machine and r&b, i only keep simpsons for my kid. I owned hook and i couldnt get rid of it fast enough. Theres some great de games, and some turds, but same with bally williams, they just had a lot more games to mask the turds in my opinion

I'm surprised no-one has mentioned the trough problems DE games used to have on location. Heard many operators complain about those over the years.

Just out of curiousity: are there any DE collectors? I know of collectors of B/W games, of Stern Pinball games, of brand specific games from certain eras, but I can't recall coming across a DE collector so far.

I love Data east, i had almost every machine they made, i played them all.
Iám a old data east repairman from the 90 so every machine did the vendor sale to me.

Yes i was, you sold me 3.

All the people I know who collect DE games are people who like oddballs in general. No one who ONLY has DE games like with Stern.

I was going to become a DE collector. Had about 75% of everything at one time, but now I went a different route and going for Zaccaria collection.

I enjoy some DE games, not a fan of JP at all, but LOVE LAH and LW3, I upgraded the speakers, put a 40w amp to them and a powered sub.. they sound pretty dam good now.. LAH really is best bang for the buck, I also like a lot of Sega's, and Williams and Stern... only machines I do not like with one exception is Gottlieb, even up to their system 3 games, don't like the feel, the flippers or the layouts.

I agree, I do like a lot of Segas and would have kept SST and X-Files, but with limited space I enjoy rotating new pins in to play. Baywatch is a keeper, especially with the shaker added. My TFTC and Maverick still have to be finished, but TFTC is another of my wife's keepers (along with BW). Will have to put a bunch of games on Maverick to determine if it stays or goes. But my wife and I enjoy pool and gambling themes, so we'll see.

There's a lot of Sega games I haven't played. Seems like the time the games switched over to Sega, that's when arcades started removing pinball. It became a rare sight to see any pinball machines, at least in the area where I lived. But a lot of Sega and Capcom games are one's I've completely missed out on playing.

Maybe way out in left field, but I love Data East Machines...
Sure, as some point out, they may have shallower rule sets, but I will tell you that they get A LOT more love among my non-pinhead friends; actually, I am not even a pin head. Most of my games I have no idea about the rules - I play to have fun. I find many DE games straight to the point of what you are trying to accomplish and I think this appeals to "normal" people (people not playing for money, judging or touting other manufacturers machines). Was the sound quality good? No. Yes it was in stereo but it was 25 years ago. There are upgrade kits you can buy to rectify these issues. Yes. I admit, the reuse of sampling does get super annoying (see JP and LAH), but I don't think these were intended to be beside each other in a home-use setting. Some of the movie samples taken were great! "Welcome, to Jurassic Park" - gets me every time. They were able to use many of the original actors voices in their games (not like POTC). As for the clunkiness everyone talks about; I would attribute that to improperly dialled in games. SAYING that, what i do notice is that the DE machines Playfields seem to be closer to the glass?? I find that this makes for a much louder game and evident noise from constant flipping (definitely louder in my restaurant).
The artwork was campy, fun. Exactly what I wanted out of moment of playing pinball, cheesy fun. Again, these were not intended to hang in the Louvre, just made for an entertaining visual. Like others have said, at least they were hand-drawn.
I am glad and proud to have owned a variety of machines. I am thankful that DE remains somewhat easily affordable to most people. We need these games in our hobby as spending 6-10K on New Sterns or restored BW games eliminates many who would like to become immersed in the world of pinball.
A wise man once said "It's pinball baby".....well spoken.

On its face that sounds like a non sequitur, but I see what you're saying. Knowing the rules will ADD to the fun, usually. But at a certain point they stop being fun and wind up feeling like work. This is why I don't miss my AC/DC or WOZECLE much. The off the hook rulesets gave me this nagging feeling that I should be doing something but didn't know what, and it did not feel like fun.

But, really, "no idea" on "most" of your games? That'd be like taking a Sunday drive in the middle of the Indy 500!

DE makes great games, I was always put off by the the sounds somewhat, mostly the background music and not a fan of the flickering GI but fun games and a few great original titles as well, I tend to prefer the 80's and very early 90's stuff and they just aren't quite in the same league as B/W from that era but who would want 2 companies making near identical pins anyway? I'd like a Laser War and after going through quite a few DE pins I just picked up the 2 that I consider keepers for my collection, mostly due to the theme but I really love Robocop's gameplay and I'm huge OG Startrek fan so had to have the 25th ann.

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I think this is a very valid point. Once I spent the time to really work with my R&B, it went from being a tad clunky to a screaming flow machine. I took the time to tweak the flipper placement, and was amazed that I was able to basically hit nearly every shot from either flipper.

Take time, tweak, and perhaps you too will discover you own an entirely different game...

Oh that's everyone's answer to everything..."dialed in" this and that. Was playing these games & W/B fresh out of the box from the factory.

I've found, generally speaking, the artwork in DE games to be distracting (aka not appealing). Just my opinion.

My first pin was a DE Checkpoint - still love the easy / fun play and Porsche theme.

This pin opened the floodgates to owning more pins (currently at 3) and counting...

Tell you what, DE games have VERY satisfying ramp shots. I think the following list is the DE pins I've owned, with TFTC being the remaining one. Actually had a Simpsons and monday Night Football back in the mid 90s, but don't really remember them much.

Star Wars - the ramp is so satisfying to hit over and over and the roar of a tie fighter is very cool.

Lethal Weapon 3 - That main ramp with the two loops is fun.

Hook - that red spiral ramp is very cool and just fun to hit.

TFTC - both ramps are challenging and a rewarding feeling comboing them, plus the right ramp trick shot is a nice bonus.