(Topic ID: 155195)
Mesa, AZ
Villejuif
Quoted from jlm33:Side note: Moved to Data East / Sega subforum
Back on topic. Should I confess I had a blast last night playing Royal Rumble? It's a cool game...
WWF is a rather deep game. I've owned it twice and still haven't beaten it. Have had a lot of fun trying though!
Toronto, ON
Quoted from Kneissl:You gotta watch this YouTube video by the artist that did most of the data beast games. Little did you know data beast had the "Picasso of pinball"
» YouTube video
What a massive tool. He not only thinks he's the greatest pinball artist of all time (he's not), but he shits all over pinball as though it was beneath him.
Mostly he talks himself up and name drops the actors on the games as though he did the art for them personally. I hate to break it to you buddy, but your art is weak.
Haters gunna hate.
Yes, DE was definitely riding B/W's coat tails and trailing them in most departments but dammit most of them are fun to play anyway. All the pinball snobs can go play their A-listers and photo-shopped playfields. 
I think DE games are under rated. They did great at a time of immense industry competition. It is not easy to knock the king of the hill off. Usually it is difficult. Most companies use a strategy of under cutting price so they at least get product out and obtain some consumer exposure. DE appears to have followed that example. I think they did a great job. Some day I need to get a GnR!!!
Quoted from jwilson:What a massive tool. He not only thinks he's the greatest pinball artist of all time (he's not), but he shits all over pinball as though it was beneath him.
Mostly he talks himself up and name drops the actors on the games as though he did the art for them personally. I hate to break it to you buddy, but your art is weak.
Agreed. He's the doucheist douche that ever douched. Better than Paul Faris?!? Gotta give a James Brown style "HAH!".
Quoted from Dbaum88:My favorite pin ever is from Data East -
GUNS AND ROSES baby!!
Good choice! Tales, Tom, Bay..believe it or not LW3 are fun titles too..more also..brain fart..I am missing several. Signing out until I can remember! DOH!
Quoted from FrostyMug:Good choice! Tales, Tom, Bay..believe it or not LW3 are fun titles too..more also..brain fart..I am missing several. Signing out until I can remember! DOH!
You're forgetting Laser War, Time Machine and Laser War!!
I picked up a DE Simpsons a few months ago - it was a fun little layout. My main complaint was the scarcity of parts when shopping it out. Anything game specific (ramps/playfields/backglass/etc) is pretty much unobtainium and no one is remaking any of it. The non-game specific parts are fairly available but crazy expensive - ie $50 for a flipper rebuild kit!
I just can't understand the love for the early ones [except Time Machine] and the small DMD ones.
Batman, simpsons and star trek lose my interest after 1 ball. they are just terrible IMHO. Not worth playing at shows once a year let alone owning one.
I can see love for Jurassic Park, guns and roses - they are kinda fun.
On top of that, the boardset sucks. Power supplies burn connectors, CPU boards have lots of issues, the PPB boards are crap - really the sound board is the only semi-reliable board in the game.
Artwork wise, they all look alike. I've always wondered why luke skywalker is on a plastic on the back right corner of Tommy. I'd rather have photoshop stuff then low res blocky color artwork like most of them have.
Not a hater. Just more of an ignorer. DE = walk on by.
Quoted from Swainer80:Haters gunna hate.
Yes, DE was definitely riding B/W's coat tails and trailing them in most departments but dammit most of them are fun to play anyway. All the pinball snobs can go play their A-listers and photo-shopped playfields.
B/W games don't have photo-shopped playfields.
Quoted from fish1975tx:I like some data east games like LAH, LW3, ST25, JP, Rocky and Bullwinkle. I think the sound sort of reminds me how the Sega Master System and Genesis seemed to not be as good as Nintendo. Williams games were just more pleasing to play.
Genesis absolutely destroyed SNES.
Quoted from Pimp77:Genesis absolutely destroyed SNES.
Dem's fightin words!
Quoted from dgoett:Artwork wise, they all look alike. I've always wondered why luke skywalker is on a plastic on the back right corner of Tommy.
Haha - that's Tommy during the song "Sensation" from the stage show. I could see how it kinda looks like Luke at the end of Empire or something though. 
My first machine was a Laser War. Never intended it to be. Just happened to be in my price range. Then sold the Laser War and picked up my grail, JP the very same day.
Quoted from Pimp77:Genesis absolutely destroyed SNES.
I only wanted a Genesis. I got a Genesis, but after playing my friends SNES, I always felt the games were better on it.
Quoted from woody24:My first machine was a Laser War. Never intended it to be. Just happened to be in my price range. Then sold the Laser War and picked up my grail, JP the very same day.
I only wanted a Genesis. I got a Genesis, but after playing my friends SNES, I always felt the games were better on it.
I had both and the SNES was geared towards young gamers, Genesis was for more mature gamers. SNES had better graphics, but that's about it. Genesis had way better games.
Quoted from TheLaw:This is a classic struggle on Pinside.
Data East Games were inferior to W/B in almost every way; Art, sound, layout, sound, rules, mechanics, sound, art, parts etc. EDIT: SOUND
Before some old fogey waddles in here let me say yes they had Stereo, but THEY WORST sound ever so it cancels it out.
Back in the day when all these games were new, NO ONE that knew anything aboot pinball or played all the time thought DE were as good as W/B....NO ONE. Of course now that new people rush in, prices go up, all that's left are shitty DE games (poor peoples games) for people to buy, and they buy them, like them, and think if you don't like them you a sheep or snob.
This is the same thinking on Pinball 2000 which is just another option to buy and cute now, but at the time it was the end of the pinball biz and we weren't happy.
Of course there are good DE games, of course they come with good good art, layouts (thanks PL), rules etc...but they are certain(t)ly under B/W.
But look at the bright side...they're way better than 90s Gottlieb games so there's always a good side.
Well said my man
Quoted from Pimp77:I had both and the SNES was geared towards young gamers, Genesis was for more mature gamers. SNES had better graphics, but that's about it. Genesis had way better games.
I don't know. Maybe SNES just had the exclusives I wanted to play. Like Mario Kart, Final Fight, the 3Dish hockey game, StarFox, the countless Street Fighter games. Seems like their version of NBA Jam had something extra that the Genesis didn't have. But we did have blood in our games though. Played the crap out of Mortal Kombat.
Quoted from TheLaw:Always had to have both as far as I'm concerned. SNES for Mario Kart, but needed Genisis for EA Hockey and sports games.
Absolutely. SF2CE on Genesis was better than SF2Turbo on SNES. Sports games on Genesis killed the SNES counterparts. NHLPA93 and Madden92 remain the two greatest sports games ever. NBA Jam was better on Genesis too. Final Fight had nothing on Streets of Rage (SoR2 was the best). Mortal Kombat 1 and 2 were a joke on SNES...they were crappy games on both systems, but at least you had the full gore on Genesis. SNES had Mario, Zelda, and DKC...which are all great.
I have to give the slight edge to NHL 94 when they added the one timer. Damn for some reason I still like Bill Walsh's College Football the best...It was early in having high stepping and 360 as moves...maybe the first (?).
I love my two DE pins, PotO is just a classic bit of nostalgia for me and JP is just good fun. As to the SNES vs Genesis debate, I was a total SNES guy for all solo experiences, but no one would play a sports game on it, that is just laughable.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:B/W games don't have photo-shopped playfields.
technically either does Gottlieb. Think that shit started with sega.
I didn't read all the posts on this thread but one did catch my eye. How can you say DE games are inferior to W/B when "Time Machine" is a System 11 game at heart (literally)? I bought this game just for the sounds. I think the retro decades music has a great beat. I even put a sub-woofer in a separate enclosure inside the bottom cabinet to refine the sound. I like the game and its layout; it has all the bells and whistles from that era. JLC
I started playing pinball in the early/mid 90's. It started with TAF and whirlwind as those were the 2 at the bowling alley I went to. I then started to seek out more pins to play and found TZ and other great b/w titles of that era, but I never paid attention to who made the games until I played my first DE game. I honestly don't even remember what it was but I remember thinking at the time that it just felt cheap. I don't know what exactly it was; the sound of the flippers, the feel of the lock down bar, the art on the playfield; I could never put my finger on it but they just didn't feel right to me.
Quoted from smokey_789:DE Star Trek 25th is a must if you have the other three..........
... and that's the only reason.... 
Quoted from fordtudoor:How can you say DE games are inferior to W/B when "Time Machine" is a System 11 game at heart (literally)?
This isn't probably directed at me, but when I posted earlier TIme Machine was the ONE game I made an exception for in my DE bashing. I owned one of these for quite awhile and the chime unit and sounds on THIS game really capture the theme well and the layout was VERY fun for that era of pinball.
Lightshow with flashers were top notch as well.
Even a broken clock is right twice a day and this is one where DE got it right.
Joe Montana Sports Talk Football '94 is where it was at for me.
*edit. Guess the correct title was, "NFL Football '94 Starring Joe Montana"
Back to Data East though, Bad Dudes on NES! Played on the arcade first, then went and bought for NES. Well, I guess I probably didn't go buy it, since I was probably 9 at that time.
Actually, I started a DE club a year ago.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/data-east-pinball-club
DE NES games were not bad.But I always found them to be not very long.They were good for renting but you would go through the whole game in an hour. still way better than acclaim or (shudder) LJN
Quoted from Kneissl:You gotta watch this YouTube video by the artist that did most of the data beast games. Little did you know data beast had the "Picasso of pinball"
» YouTube video
That's guy is so awesome! 
lately he has been doing infomercials selling some kind of stuff that makes you poop.
As a kid I can remember walking up and seeing that ugly DE apron and being disappointed it wasn't a Williams game. Now I dont really care and would gladly own one.
Quoted from catboxer:As a kid I can remember walking up and seeing that ugly DE apron and being disappointed it wasn't a Williams game. Now I dont really care and would gladly own one.
I was quite the opposite. I was always drawn to DE machines, but was mainly due to the movie licenses. I wouldn't be able to count the times I played JP. But I know exactly how many times I played the Addams Family that always sat next to it. 1 time.
Friesland
For me I biked to work at Fast Food and there was a Phantom of the Opera in a 7-11 on my way. I now people shit on the sound but at the time it was amazing, I heard it before I saw it. The music and the screams it was next level, when you lost the ball and could make that whip sound. Sure today its nothing but back then it was like this taboo European thing with hints of SM. Somehow I managed to end my shift with a quarter in my pocket and stopped everyday to play it. Dark, moody, tits and SM vs "I am pinbot", ha ha as teenage boy it was no contest for me. Plus it wasn't hard, easy to get multiball and free games. I wasn't looking for a challenge I wanted that quarter I nicked to last. As the DMD era came in it was the same for me with JP as with woody24, the Addams family, fuck off that was lame. We got baked and watched JP, with those special effects its was crazy.
I've owned several DE games. LW3, TFTC, DESW, Hook and they are definitely clunkier than Bally, Williams and even Segas. I found DESW and LW3 to be air ball city especially. Sold all of them, traded TFTC for a BSD, but kept a project TFTC because my wife likes that game.
I just picked up a Rescue 911 which is my second Gottlieb I've owned, and they feel much more solid than DE.
Hey, let's face it - Stern may not be here making games today if Data East would have been a total failure. You've got to give the brand credit for that.
I'm wondering if anyone can attest to whether or not Data East was the same price point as Bally or Williams. I'd assume Data East were less expensive, to get more people in the price point they can afford. As for quality, they just don't feel as solid or polished and smooth overall, but they were the new guy and they had to come up with some different things hardware wise since they kept getting sued by the competition trying to keep them out of the business. Competition must have feared them for a reason.
My Data East games hold up extremely well, so I have no experience with them being any more problematic than any other brand. The licensing probably also cost big bucks, so their overall budget would have been hindered a bit due to that.
In spite of all that, they went for it, they went big, they got some huge licensed titles and put out some pretty kick ass games.
These arguments about crappy art and crappy sound can also be said about plenty of other vendor's games.
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