(Topic ID: 155195)

Why No Love For Data East Games?


By Dooskie

3 years ago



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  • 178 posts
  • 88 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 years ago by Gryphun
  • Topic is favorited by 6 Pinsiders

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    There are 178 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 4.
    #1 3 years ago

    Just curious why a lot of folks don't seem to like anything that Data East ever put out. I've got a 25th Anniversary Star Trek table that I absolutely love playing, and I'll never get rid of it. I don't work on machines, but the person that works on it for me doesn't find it difficult to figure out problems. And there seem to be plenty of shots to always hit. I've only turned the scoring over one time, and don't find that it's necessarily an easy game.

    Any comments?

    #2 3 years ago

    I have owned a LOT of Data East games. Some titles two and three times. Generally speaking, most of the DE's tables have VERY similar rules and objectives. The layouts and shots are certainly different on a lot of DE games but they are really lacking that over the top feeling that you get from playing TAF or Judge Dredd. It's really just a bunch of modes with one goal.

    I only currently only own 1 DE and I am a DE lover!

    I would consider buying some of the ones I have not yet owned. Tommy and TMNT come to mind... However, I completely understand why people do not care for them.

    I vow to never own: Hook, ST 25th, DE_playboy, JP, or LAH.

    One other thing I forgot to mention is that once DE's came out with their proprietary flipper board solution to solid state flippers, it really was dramitically different than anything else that pinball had seen up to that point in time.

    It was oddly designed with a separate "low hold voltage" for the flippers. It was just one more thing to learn about and maintain and for what it added to the games at the time, it really wasn't worth it IMHO.

    Later on WMS followed the solid state flipper suit and allowed some cool stuff to be integrated in to game play but up until that point, SS DE flippers were more or less overpowered and annoying to work on IMHO.

    #3 3 years ago

    the hate was worse

    but its cause people are snobs or followers

    #4 3 years ago

    JP is awesome.

    -10
    #5 3 years ago

    No, it's actually the most annoying game ever created by DE.

    It sat along side TAF, Getaway and T2 in arcades when it was new and it was an absolute piece of crap... compared to those 3 titles at least.

    #6 3 years ago

    The rules are the same in every one. That's my main issue with them. I still like flipping on them now and then.

    #7 3 years ago

    Flippers felt clunky to me. Owned gnr, time machine, tftc.

    Fun pins, just not as smooth as willys.

    #8 3 years ago

    Try changing the GI bulbs on them... have a nice day

    #9 3 years ago

    This is a classic struggle on Pinside.
    Data East Games were inferior to W/B in almost every way; Art, sound, layout, sound, rules, mechanics, sound, art, parts etc. EDIT: SOUND
    Before some old fogey waddles in here let me say yes they had Stereo, but THEY WORST sound ever so it cancels it out.

    Back in the day when all these games were new, NO ONE that knew anything aboot pinball or played all the time thought DE were as good as W/B....NO ONE. Of course now that new people rush in, prices go up, all that's left are shitty DE games (poor peoples games) for people to buy, and they buy them, like them, and think if you don't like them you a sheep or snob.
    This is the same thinking on Pinball 2000 which is just another option to buy and cute now, but at the time it was the end of the pinball biz and we weren't happy.

    Of course there are good DE games, of course they come with good good art, layouts (thanks PL), rules etc...but they are certain(t)ly under B/W.

    But look at the bright side...they're way better than 90s Gottlieb games so there's always a good side.

    #10 3 years ago

    I think Data East machines offer a lot of fun for the money. I've owed a LAH in the past and I currently own a JP. I understand the complaints about the slightly more "clunky" feel that they have and about many of them having similar rules/layouts. However, there's still a lot of fun to be had with DE titles, and I enjoy the variety of having one in my collection. I think there are lots of DE machines with cool themes and I actually prefer the hand drawn art that many of them feature to the newer photo-shopped stuff. Don't let the complaints of pinball elitists tell you what is and isn't fun. I'm not one of the pinheads that thinks every game I add to my collection has to be a 5k+ A list title.

    #11 3 years ago

    God, the sound is the worst part. And clunky - everything feels cheap and sloppy compared to the tight, smooth WMS games of the same era. Then there's the artwork - it looks like it was drawn by a high schooler. Everything about them is cheap.

    Tommy is actually a pretty good game, but the sound is so bad and tinny, it didn't last long in my collection. Probably the best DE game is Guns and Roses and the crappy sound kinda ruins it for me. Plus they made those ramps out of tissue paper.

    That said, a lot of them have really interesting and different layouts and are good for some basic pinball fun. I enjoyed Robocop while I owned it and if I had room for 10 other games I'd have kept it.

    #12 3 years ago
    Quoted from retrotilt:

    I think Data East machines offer a lot of fun for the money. I've owed a LAH in the past and I currently own a JP. I understand the complaints about the slightly more "clunky" feel that they have and about many of them having similar rules/layouts. However, there's still a lot of fun to be had with DE titles, and I enjoy the variety of having one in my collection. I think there are lots of DE machines with cool themes and I actually prefer the hand drawn art that many of them feature to the newer photo-shopped stuff. Don't let the complaints of pinball elitists tell you what is and isn't fun. I'm not one of the pinheads that thinks every game I add to my collection has to be a 5k+ A list title.

    Thank you for your comments. I really enjoy playing pinball, and had my DE tucked away for about 15 years due to some moving around and then not being able to find someone to fix it. One of the kids that plays on my high school golf team offered to fix it last fall, and then I got the bug again (really bad). Picked up a Star Trek and No Good Gofers. I have all three set up in my pro shop at my golf course. Am trying to have a mix of games that have both a deep rules set and an easy rules set, mainly trying to get people interested in playing pinball while they are waiting to head out onto the golf course. We'll be opening as soon as we get past this next snow storm, so we'll see how it goes.

    #13 3 years ago
    Quoted from snyper2099:

    No, it's actually the most annoying game ever created by DE.
    It sat along side TAF, Getaway and T2 in arcades when it was new and it was an absolute piece of crap... compared to those 3 titles at least.

    How do you really feel?

    #14 3 years ago

    Ive owned a few and have tried lots of them out bc they were good deals but I just dont care for them. Seems once you own/played one ,they all feel and sound kinda the same lol. Still its a pin and better than none at all but I tend to stay away from them

    #15 3 years ago

    I've always had a soft spot for Data East pins. However, they did some annoying things with them, such as with the sounds. They recycled a lot of sound bits across their games, and the music was frantic/terrible. Pinsound boards have really breathed new life into DE games now. Mechanically they are no different or harder to work on.

    The real reason they get any kind of a wrap is because they're not built or feel fluid like a Bally/Williams, just the same way that Gottlieb gets its fair share of a hate. That doesn't mean they're not good or as fun though...Variety is a good thing.

    #16 3 years ago

    For me, the Data East pins are the value menu games and I enjoy them very much!

    #17 3 years ago
    Quoted from Blackbeard:

    Flippers felt clunky to me. Owned gnr, time machine, tftc.
    Fun pins, just not as smooth as willys.

    I felt the same. Went to go pick up either a SWDE or GNR. Both were in good shape.

    Walked out with an IJ. The Williams flippers are the best.

    #19 3 years ago

    TFTC has the best dots and animations of any game from that era, and beyond. Just amazing what they did--puts any newer Stern pin I've played to shame (considering when this was done and what the technology is today). Too bad they did not have the rule set that ChadH came up with, this one would be in the top 25.

    -2
    #20 3 years ago
    Quoted from Billy16:

    Too bad they did not have the rule set that ChadH came up with, this one would be in the top 25.

    Poor layout would limit that...awesome animations though for sure.

    #21 3 years ago

    SWDE is one of my favourite looking pins, great art, plus my kids love it, a keeper for any collection I think..

    I like LAH and LW3 aswell, id say they are great pins for a low value..

    I agree original speakers are terrible tho, DE games in general need a LED kit, a low voltage DMD and a speaker upgrade to become more enjoyable imo.

    #22 3 years ago
    Quoted from TheLaw:

    Poor layout would limit that...awesome animations though for sure.

    I actually think Borg did a pretty good job on this, especially considering where he was at in his designing career. I would have made the right ramp shot entrance easier, moved the scoop a little and altered the pops some to keep SDTM drains from happening. Otherwise, with ChadH's code this game plays very well. The theme is cool, callouts are really great, lights are good (especially with leds), music fits the theme and the multi balls are really good--especially the 6 ball Electric. Super tough game to complete--all-in-all one of DE's top three I'd say.

    #23 3 years ago
    Quoted from snyper2099:

    No, it's actually the most annoying game ever created by DE.
    .

    I love Jurassic Park and Last Action Hero. Both were always popular at the arcades I was in. Besides Guns N Roses they were the DE games you had to wait and play.

    #24 3 years ago

    I have a DE Simpsons. It's a good pin for the money. I have had it for a few years and don't plan on selling it any time soon. But compared to Bally/Williams of the same era they are not as good with rules and they do feel clunkier. But can still be fun.

    #25 3 years ago

    Simpsons owner here too, I give it a few plays every evening. Would like to eventually get a Star Trek 25th to keep it company. Those damn flipper coils though......WAY too strong! Did all DE's have that problem?

    #26 3 years ago

    My DE/Sega pins see the same amount love & affection as my Sterns or B\W. Once you get the pops dialed in they are thunderous. Just as easy to work on too. What other pins of that era can you drop the whole pop mech? Most important chips are socketed on all boards. How long does it take to install NVram on your B\W of that era? I'll wait here. No clunky flippers either. Art package complaints should look at GoT. PotC needed an update to clean up the speech, & who didn't recycle sound. I love the in game video games. Baywatch will kick sand in your face, take your beerz & your babe, leaving you feeding it quarters.

    #27 3 years ago

    Baywatch is a great game! Awsome shots. Excellent video modes. Cool sounds(dolphins and sharks). 4 flipper games usually are more fun imo.

    #28 3 years ago

    I'm loving my BTTF tonight just broke 22 million. Sound package is pretty good on this one and the cointaker led kit makes it sparkle.
    But will always enjoy my Williams flippers a lot more.

    #29 3 years ago

    Shhhhhh! Don't let anyone know that DE games are good - if folks discover this we won't get them cheap anymore!

    Loving my WWFRR, SW, and R&B!

    -1
    #30 3 years ago

    Poor software, bad art, chintzy sound, Bad flippers, bad pop bumper mechs and other issues.

    They just aren't I the same universe as far as the Williams stuff. I do like some of the games like jurrasic park.

    The reputation of these games have improved in recent years as more people have had to "settle" for them.

    #31 3 years ago

    Laser War is awesome, they really came out firing with their first entry. I love Tales from the Crypt, can't get much gorier than that and the artwork is actually pretty awesome. I have a lot of fun on their games. I think they were really trying to get some attention in the market, but I agree they don't feel as smooth, polished and solid as a Williams / Bally / Midway. And the usual issues people have with the modes & objectives. I've had fun on every game they've made that I've played though. They'll always get my appreciation.

    #32 3 years ago

    I like some data east games like LAH, LW3, ST25, JP, Rocky and Bullwinkle. I think the sound sort of reminds me how the Sega Master System and Genesis seemed to not be as good as Nintendo. Williams games were just more pleasing to play.

    #33 3 years ago

    Beyond some of the things mentioned, DE games reused much of the same sound and music in different variations.
    Creativity is this department was not particularly stellar, in some in downright sucked a$$.
    Fortunately, the modern PinSound board has remedied that problem.
    One game that really stands out that fixes sound quality, variation, and detail issues is Guns & Roses.
    Much better now.

    #34 3 years ago

    DESW sounds are absolutely awful.... Did anyone mention maintenance issues???

    #35 3 years ago

    Ive played a few....it might just be me, but man always seem to get a ton of air balls...crazy air balls. Also, the majority of the art work is watered down.

    #36 3 years ago
    Quoted from AlexSMendes:

    DESW sounds are absolutely awful.... Did anyone mention maintenance issues???

    As compared to what? Burnt GI because Williams never did learn how to handle power?

    From what I've owned DE System 3 has been more reliable than WPC.

    Also love the comments about terrible art in this thread. DE hum and similar rules I can understand, but art? The art was great and was a shame post Batman Forever when Sega went to using photoshop.

    #37 3 years ago
    Quoted from jwilson:

    Then there's the artwork - it looks like it was drawn by a high schooler.

    You gotta watch this YouTube video by the artist that did most of the data beast games. Little did you know data beast had the "Picasso of pinball"

    #38 3 years ago

    The experiences I've had trying to repair them along with the times I have played them have led me to the conclusion that I will never own one or fix one again. GnR is kind of fun, but that does not make up for the fact that in general DE games suck. That is why there is no love. All kinds of excuses and calling people snobs, etc does not make up for that basic fact.

    #39 3 years ago

    I like DE games. They play entirely different than Bally/Williams, Gottlieb, and Stern. It is good to have variation in a collection including apples, oranges, and bananas. JP is a really fun game.

    #40 3 years ago

    Love the shakers on DE games! There I said it.

    #41 3 years ago

    I think Data east aka Sega pinball games were way ahead of the rest when it came to dmd interaction and video vodes. For that very reason I still miss my LW3 and will never let go of my Baywatch.

    I know people often say they feel different from Bally and Williams. Usually the are talking about flipper feel. Someone told me that is do to the coil stop being different. They said (if I remember right) that you could swap out and use Williams coil stops and then gain that feel. I never had an issue and stock flippers were fine for me. But for others? Maybe try that out if it really bugs you.

    #42 3 years ago
    Quoted from John_I:

    The experiences I've had trying to repair them along with the times I have played them have led me to the conclusion that I will never own one or fix one again. GnR is kind of fun, but that does not make up for the fact that in general DE games suck. That is why there is no love. All kinds of excuses and calling people snobs, etc does not make up for that basic fact.

    There seems to be plenty of love, just not from you. If you hate it, great because it makes it cheaper for me. So please, be closed minded and covet your precious B/W titles. Doesn't hurt me one bit.

    #43 3 years ago

    I enjoyed a few data beast games. Tommy, TFTC, time machine are the highlights of what I've played.
    I don't get the repair argument. the ones I've messed with are pretty much system 11 with slightly different mechs... in a home use environment I don't see them blowing up after initial fix/tune-up.

    #44 3 years ago
    Quoted from Kneissl:

    I enjoyed a few data beast games. Tommy, TFTC, time machine are the highlights of what I've played.
    I don't get the repair argument. the ones I've messed with are pretty much system 11 with slightly different mechs... in a home use environment I don't see them blowing up after initial fix/tune-up.

    I had a Tommy, great game. I never had any issues with excess breakdowns or difficulty doing repairs on my DE pins. My ownership has been, LW3, TFTC, Tommy, Baywatch and Maverick (Segas) and BTTF. I think all manufacturers had their pros and cons. I mean heck, I own a Capcom PM. Fun pin and way advanced in several areas. However, very fragile pin regarding wires under the playfield. Most are missing much needed slack, kinda like banjo strings under there. Size of wire is small too. Perhaps part of the reason so many solder connections break apart. Soooooo, I guess my point is pins are like restaurants. All have some good food and all have some bad food dishes. One bad food dish for Bally and Williams was the infamous game reset issue caused by aged or failed power boards. Both my Judge Dredd and my Johnny Mnemonic developed the problem. I had to select an option (new power board, repair parts on existing power board or add daughterboard piggy back). I chose daughter boards for both of them.

    Pins are also like ex-girlfriends...they all had/have one kind of problem or another lol

    #45 3 years ago

    Plenty of love for DE games. I've owned a few, and I still own a couple.

    And the stereo is awesome, remember you need to compare it to games back THEN not now. F14 = awesome, Fire! - crap, HS -meh,

    Torpedo Alley =Awesome, Secret Service, Playboy 35th, all good sound. What DID suck on DE was the damn BST200 unobtainum chips. But not with Pinsound, you get even better sounds!

    As for general mechanics, very similar.

    Remember Stern begat DE begat Sega begat Stern.. While Williams = gone, dead, est murte, dust... So they must done some things right.

    #46 3 years ago
    Quoted from AlexSMendes:

    DESW sounds are absolutely awful.... Did anyone mention maintenance issues???

    Ive owned plenty of BW, Stern, and DE games. Maintenance issues seem pretty even between them. Sound is generally solved with upgraded speakers.

    #47 3 years ago

    DE has some amazing games. The issue is, they may not have produced that many games in comparison to its competitors. So the bad stick out much more, although they did produce some really fun games that still to today are some of collectors favorite. In my opinion DE was never about bling, it was about simplicity and replay value and that is something they did very well. They may be clunky sometimes, but that is a quality that we enjoy.

    “The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.” ~Spock (Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan, 1982)

    #48 3 years ago

    Much love...

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    #49 3 years ago

    I love my Time Machine. I find it has better sound than my Williams games in terms of stereo and raw bass, the voices and chimes are neat and it's fun even with a relatively simple layout. The art is great as well, the theme is awesome, and it plays very fast which I like, almost like an AC/DC Pro. Having said that I haven't played many Data East games, and the last one I remember trying, I think it was Laser War, seemed very similar to my Time Machine in general layout. So maybe their games are derivative, not sure on that. I need to try some of their newer games at some point.

    #50 3 years ago

    Laser War rocks!, like it more than Time Machine (game play).. And for the $.., sheeeet.. - SOUND on the early DE's is awesome! Gonna get the Pioneer 4x10's and polk sub for both Laser War and Time Machine..

    I DO enjoy WMS games, alot, and have owned a handful, but Data East pins 'cost' allows me to have numerous. Once I 'level up' and can drop 4-8K per pin, I will happily go there.. Till then, Data East..

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