(Topic ID: 237719)

LED in mods without resistor ? (how to do with 18V input)

By Ben38

5 years ago



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  • Latest reply 5 years ago by Ben38
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#1 5 years ago

Hi,
I'm thinking about repairing/modifying/making some mods for my pinball. But I want to understand how to deal with the LED, and the electrical issues. In the case of a mod that is plugged on a WPC controlled lamp.

I learned that the lamp inserts of a WPC are powered from the lamp matrix with a 18V DC input switching on/off very quickly. To emulate a kind of 6,3V.
It is ok from an incandescent lamp point of view. But for a LED, why is it working ?
As soon as the LED receive 18V, even if it is some milliseconds only, the LED should blow.

On my Twilight Zone, I have some mods with Led. The slot machine for example.
There is 2 Led on the left/right of the slot machine (3mm Led, ~2,2V, 20mA), and they are linked to the "slot machine controlled lamp" of the door panel. And there is no resistor to protect them.
So 18V for 2 LED 3mm, it is far too much. They should blow immediately.
Why is it working anyway ? Where am I wrong ?
Thanks for your help & technical explanations

#2 5 years ago

In simple terms: Voltage is not what kills an LED, it's current. That is why there is usually a current-limiting resistor in an LED circuit. An LED is a diode. It’s just a diode that happens to emit light. Like any diode, an LED will always experience the same amount of voltage difference (between 2–3 V, depending on the LED) regardless of the supply voltage of the circuit (assuming it is in series with a resistor), since it is a non-ohmic device and does not obey Ohm’s Law.

and, loosely applied: PWM (pulse width modulation) theory would suggest 100% duty cycle to be the full 18VDC of the matrix supply....but the duty cycle of the pulses in the lamp matrix are smaller (about max 12.5%) and thus the LED "sees" a much smaller voltage and current, on average.
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#3 5 years ago

Yes it is the current that blow the led.
But during the 4-5ms when the current is on, the voltage is 18V and then the current is far more than 20mA. And the led should blow.
Then during the following 20-30ms, the current is off, but it should be too late.

#4 5 years ago

Something else in the circuit is limiting the current then. Keep in mind that these circuits ware not designed to operate with LEDs....you are just getting lucky without a current limiting resistor in the circuit. Driving LEDs directly from energy sources without any great knowledge of what controls the current and how much current flows, will sometimes work well enough in many cases, but in many cases at other times it may work inadequately, and may lead to destruction or early death of LED or energy source.

#5 5 years ago
Quoted from wayout440:

Something else in the circuit is limiting the current then. Keep in mind that these circuits ware not designed to operate with LEDs....you are just getting lucky without a current limiting resistor in the circuit. Driving LEDs directly from energy sources without any great knowledge of what controls the current and how much current flows, will sometimes work well enough in many cases, but in many cases at other times it may work inadequately, and may lead to destruction or early death of LED or energy source.

I agree. That was exactly what I was thinking, and the subject of my question.
My twilight zone was not designed to work with led. I have some well known mods (the slot machine, the robby robot). They include 3mm/20mA led without resistors, and they work.
Why? How? Where the current is limited?

#6 5 years ago
Quoted from Ben38:

I agree. That was exactly what I was thinking, and the subject of my question.
My twilight zone was not designed to work with led. I have some well known mods (the slot machine, the robby robot). They include 3mm/20mA led without resistors, and they work.
Why? How? Where the current is limited?

Most LEDs are capable of withstanding current transients that are several times higher than the maximum rated current. But, the exact amplitude that a particular LED can withstand is also a function of the duration and frequency of the transient. Beyond a certain threshold, which can be difficult to determine the exact value, a single-pulse event will lead to an immediate catastrophic failure of the LED.

High-current repetitive pulsing, may or may not result in an early catastrophic failure of the LED. Repetitive high-current pulsing may result in a shortened life expectancy for the LED compared to the usual expected lifetime, on the order of tens or hundreds of thousands of hours. A particular device subjected to repeated transients at an amplitude some percentage above the data-sheet limits but below the threshold required for single-pulse failure will still eventually fail.

Your LEDs are working, at the moment....but may not last the normal life expectancy.

#7 5 years ago

Why not just put in the correct resistor for your leds and not worry?

#8 5 years ago

Yes of course, I will do that if I design/adjust a mod by myself.

But now my understanding is :
- I need to calculate the resistor value based on a 18V input. (even if it is 18V during 5ms every 30ms)
- the mods that are sold every day on the market are designed to fail on a short term !! Because of the power sent into the led.
And it is annoying...

#10 5 years ago

Thanks for the links. It is useful and easier to calculate the resistor need.
But as you can see, it confirm the essential need of resistors in our mods, that are powered with a 18V input !!
So a lot of the expensive mods that are for sale here in the market are designed to fail !

For a circuit with 1 led, a resistor of ~820 ohms is needed.
For a circuit with 2 led, a resistor of ~680 ohms is needed.

Led resistor need 1 led (resized).jpgLed resistor need 1 led (resized).jpgLed resistor need 2 led (resized).jpgLed resistor need 2 led (resized).jpg
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