(Topic ID: 157718)

Why is TWD pro ranked so low?

By rai

7 years ago


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There are 106 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 3.
#51 7 years ago

The current rating system uses the average which encourages users to put in extreme values so that their review can have the maximum impact. If the median value were used instead, it would greatly decrease the incentive to do this and in my opinion improve the quality of the ratings.

Many times we've seen a game debut in the top 10 only to be knocked down to 100+ the next week by retaliatory voting. All of these ratings are based on people who have few if any plays on an early code game. I think the suggestion of putting an expirtation date on early ratings is a good idea.

#52 7 years ago
Quoted from twenty84:

I think the suggestion of putting an expirtation date on early ratings is a good idea.

I agree.

#53 7 years ago

I actually think the game is rated appropriately. I could never get into the game, even with the updated sound. Maybe it's just one of those games that you have to play in a home environment.

#54 7 years ago

First I think the rating system is flawed, that being said I played at NY, NY (Vegas) last week 10 very nice pins one TWD another GOT's both pro's. I bombed out on both and didn't play either very much. If I wanted to rate they would be sub par but that's because I stunk. On the other hand I played a very nice Met pro (which I haven't played before) it was awesome. Also really liked the Avatar LE. I did better on those pins.

-9
#55 7 years ago

OP has a good point -- TWD is not ranked well.

It should be ranked much lower. It does not deserve a spot in the top 100, let alone the top 200.

-mof

#56 7 years ago
Quoted from dzoomer:

There are still a lot of negative reviews being posted for TWD pro, recently and now. The Prem/Le has climbed a lot of spots and is fairly high in the overall ratings over the last year, not so much for the Pro. Can't blame that difference on the code changes from early to now. However, that difference does support the set up sensitivity of the machine discussed below, and would affect pros more (because many people find them on location more). What is even more telling is that the Prem/Le rates somewhere around 50-70 positions higher than the Pro. That is by far the biggest spread between a Pro and Prem/Le that I'm aware of. And that isn't because of early vs late coding either, as both have had the same core code and the same code release schedules.
WRT art, go read the reveal threads. Most people really dug the PF and art. Sure some won't like it but most did and therefore that doesn't account for the low Pro rating, let alone the big difference between the Pro and Prem/Le ratings.
'
Posted much of this before. Stand by it
It has been de rigeur urban legend now on pinside to say TWD sucked early on and only became good with the last code updates. And I'd say it's because many members use it as an excuse to justify why they hated the game at first but now really like it (man, was there a lot of hate for a while, especially from some vocal members here over and over). It is wrong.
In reality, I and many others found TWD to be reasonably coded early on; it was fun and interesting to play. Especially after the first update, which became available a few months after release and was quite significant. Many people could already see how good TWD was. Lyman is great and his coding doesn't just become awesome with the last code updates. The major complaints and TWD hate one finds on pinside back then on the pin was not about poor coding, it was about the cheap drains. Coding got better and better with more updates too, and is now one of the best out there imo. But early code was still good. In fact there are some really cool DMD animations from early code that were dropped in later releases.
IMO, the true reason people here posted lots of TWD hate early on is because they played location machines and they had cheap drains. Other people did not have these issues. Over time it was determined here that TWD is notably sensitive to setup (and some of them more than others too), and without care taken TWD becomes much more of a STDM/outlane drainer from many areas including magnets, slings, pops ramp rejects, etc. In home use this sensitivity is not very significant; on location it can be very significant.
Yes, not having actor voice work was a big misstep in TWD. But the negativity was about more early on, and actor voice work was easily fixable with pinball browser. Many people say that TWD sucked earlier but now is excellent. If it were only about actor voices, people would have posted early on their like for the game play and that pinball browser would fix the sounds for the game.
The reported TWD history is typical revisionist human nature and confirmation/selection bias. And unfortunately, I doubt this TWD urban legend history will change.

Well written...

#57 7 years ago
Quoted from mof:

OP has a good point -- TWD is not ranked well.
It should be ranked much lower. It does not deserve a spot in the top 100, let alone the top 200.
-mof

lol yeah right. Play better.

#58 7 years ago

TWD is a really fun but polarizing experience. The theme is executed well (minus Hillbilly Bob) with dark, adult themed art. I found the ramps overly long along with some cheap drains, but the layout was unique and fun to shoot.

I owned it, liked it, but sold it to try something new. I would own it again.

#59 7 years ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

Yeah I don't quite like how the person gets blamed for not coming back and re-rating. Here's something people need to think aboot; if they code is shit I'm NOT COMING BACK to play it. Here's a game I don't need to play again; X-men. IT was so frikkin broken to begin with, it completely turned me off from every playing it again. I had to for leagues and stuff but no thanks.

So true and yet it seems like stern is selling enough pins with pre-orders not to care if the community hates it cause code is weak at the very begining.

So many people tried and hated Avengers so much that even if code is way better now......no one really care but the owners. By making an extra effort and show more love before even launching it a license like that ( so freaking hot with the tons of movies marvel is coming out with ) could have done so much better.

Weird and perfect example when people are coming over. They play tron, ac/dc and met and laugh about Avengers and have heard and been burned so much they don't even try. At the end of the night after I played a few games people seem to appreciate it more but too late.....stern loss the money.

#60 7 years ago

This is a good thread, reminds me I should rate it...I really like the game.

The games I played the most don't have cheap drain issues, but I know what people are referring to. The prison magnet throwing the ball down the center is pure BS (Lyman PLEASE put in a ball saver if you can't otherwise fling the ball to safety), and one game I've played regularly puts the ball STDM out of the pops... should be easy to adjust for. I'm a very mediocre player but I always feel great playing this game, one of the few I can regularly put up good scores.

#61 7 years ago

Personally, I think that the cheap drain from the pops is the primary killer. You shouldn't have to jury-rig a game just to stop it from screwing you, especially since the ball has so many ways to get into the pops. Who the hell thought that was a good idea? The other thing I really can't stand is the redneck hick caricature audio; it's just heinous. Other than those two things, I actually don't mind it.

#62 7 years ago

I think it's the poor setup on location as this game is partial to cheap drains without a little tweaking. Heck, the TWD Pro on location at Castles and Coasters STILL has the foam stuck in behind the well walker so it doesn't move correctly when hit. That's how much care the ops put into setting it up

#63 7 years ago

I've played five or six TWDs and have not seen a problem with pop exit draining. Shrug.

#64 7 years ago

Didn't play twd pro till July 2015 so I guess the code was fixed , after playing 6 games it had great flow, and was very fun...I was for sure I'd be buying a premiumn... bought it in oct.2015 very pricey but I am very happy I bought it, best game since metalica
Not a easy game to play you have to be on your toes, nudging skills needed and eye on the ball to have longer ball time for more points.....pass on the pro go premiumn!!!!!!

#65 7 years ago

Every new stern is not going to be great just because it is a new license. Some are going to be only average, and that is okay. If you are a huge fan of both Pinballs and TWD it will probably be one of your favorite machines. If you love pinballs but only like TWD show you're probably not going to see the game through the same rose colored glasses.

If you are basing your buying decision on how great a huge fan of the show thinks it is, and you are not a huge fan... you will probably be disappointed.

#66 7 years ago
Quoted from wantdataeast:

Every new stern is not going to be great just because it is a new license. Some are going to be only average, and that is okay. If you are a huge fan of both Pinballs and TWD it will probably be one of your favorite machines. If you love pinballs but only like TWD show you're probably not going to see the game through the same rose colored glasses.
If you are basing your buying decision on how great a huge fan of the show thinks it is, and you are not a huge fan... you will probably be disappointed.

I think this is a good point. Sometimes a license can skew your view of how well a game actually plays. TWD has great atmosphere and music. The dots and rules are some of the best. I kind of dislike that there are two bash toys that you constantly have to hit but I guess there is little difference between aiming for bash toys and aiming for targets.

Overall it's a great game for players who love to nudge. That might not be the best game for casual players on location which is probably where most TWD Pros are located and that might be reflected by it's pinside rating.

On a side note, I don't get to worked up over ratings. I think they are meant as a fun thing to do. I'll rate games after playing on location because I'm never gonna own every game. Sometimes it's fun to look back and see where I played this game and what were my initial thoughts.

#67 7 years ago

I own a WD Pro and I love it. Its easily one of the best pinball machines that ive ever played, and quite possibly the best machine that ive ever played. People act like the Pro model is trash compared to the Premiuim/LE model. I have played both and that is definitely not true. This game will never leave my collection ever. Now with that being said, I can see how some people would say that the WD sucks, because if the machine is not properly set up you will definitely get some cheap drains. The drains from the pops are very frustrating and really at one point had me thinking that maybe I made a bad choice in buying the game, but after trying different set ups I now have my game playing awesome and it is so much fun that its unbelievable.

I think when people set these machines up on location that most of the time they dont care how they play and they only care about how much money that they bring in. Getting the right pitch and leveling on this machine is crucial to the way that it plays. The WD Pro is a winner and one of the best purchases that I have ever made in my life. My machine also looks a million times better now than it did from the factory just by changing a few of the white LED's out for some colored ones. The game has too many white LED's from the factory IMO. The Pro is fantastic, don't let anyone tell you that its not.

#68 7 years ago
Quoted from Skypilot:

I recently picked a pro at the Ohio show. I honestly had no intention of getting one but worked out a nice deal with Scott Weir on his. I don't watch the show so I never had it on my radar. I will wait to rate it until I understand the rule set a little better. That said I am pleasantly surprised with it so far. I don't place a lot of faith in the rating on newer game due to knee jerk reactions of people who are to quick to judge. I do read the comments of others and compare with my one experiences.so give it time.

I seen your machine at Scotts and I gotta say that it is gorgeous! You will never go wrong huying anything off of Scott, he is a great guy and his pins are top notch. You scored a great machine there for sure, congrats!

2 months later
#69 7 years ago

I'd be interested in seeing some pics of your guys pro machines that have swapped out some of the white LEDs for colored ones, I really feel that the pro has way to much white light and would like some suggestions for alternate colors and how they might look

#70 7 years ago
Quoted from hanzie:

If be interested in seeing some pics of your guys pro machines that have swapped out some of the white LEDs for colored ones, I really feel that the pro has way to much white light and would like some suggestions for alternate colors and how they might look

I have Amber incandescent bulbs in mine. Looks like a sunset.

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#71 7 years ago

Played a PRO and bought a Premium........ Cant go wrong either way. Fantastic game. My wife and I both agree its one of the freshest playing games in a long time. Sold our AFM that we had for over 10 years and have no regrets. Get one and dont look back.

#72 7 years ago
Quoted from hanzie:

I'd be interested in seeing some pics of your guys pro machines that have swapped out some of the white LEDs for colored ones

I really like the green zombie kill lights, I diddent at first but thay grew on me fast.
Also have super fucking bright led's from pinball life in the supply inserts, because these inserts are frosted the super brights work well there.

1469272406838-430101874_(resized).jpg1469272406838-430101874_(resized).jpg

All of this lighting and mods were done by the previous owner. Only thing I changed were the supply lights as everything else looks great.

#73 7 years ago

The darker lighting looks cool on this machine , I don't really get what their logic was behind using all those white LEDs , I'll have to figure out the type of lamps that will fit and swap some out for something other then Bright daylight white

#74 7 years ago

Hanzie, come look at mine if you need ideas. 90 min drive.

TWD Pro is fantastic. I am famous for getting bored with games quickly and TWD has made it, having outlasted MET and Kiss LE with which it came. Modded it well. No "cheap" drains, but punishing ones and FRUSTRATING ones because the buildup is so amazing. Stern's best-executed pin in a long while.

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#75 7 years ago

Pinlawyer, thanks for the offer. I may take you up on that sometime, what types of colors did you end up putting in yours?

#76 7 years ago

Wish it was ranked lower... then I probably could have got the one I'm picking up in 10 days for less.

#77 7 years ago
Quoted from JeffF:

Wish it was ranked lower... then I probably could have got the one I'm picking up in 10 days for less.

I've got one in order , I heard that stern won't be starting production of Twd pro models again until September There were some in stock I could have bought for about 600 more but wasn't prepared to blow that extra loot to get one right now

#78 7 years ago
Quoted from hassanchop:

This is why:
50 guys play the machine when it comes out with the first code. They rate it 4.
After a year, 50 more guys play the game with the new awesome code and they rate it 8.
The average for all these ratings will be a 6.
This average is not accurate because the pin runs on the new code now and the first 50 guys will not go and change their rating. (too much work lol).
The fair rating should be an 8 on this case. But it will never be.
Conclusion: Pin ratings are as useful as asking my grandma if the pin is good or not..

My grandma was a helluva pinball player.

#79 7 years ago

Is the pro almost as good as the premium?

#80 7 years ago
Quoted from rai:

Is the pro almost as good as the premium?

Plays just as good in my view but the light show is much better on the premium.

#81 7 years ago

Here's my Pro with the white lights swapped out:

image_(resized).jpegimage_(resized).jpeg

image_(resized).jpegimage_(resized).jpeg

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Since those photos, I've made a couple of changes (like all red on the zombie kill count), but I like the way it looks. I know others will disagree. Looks way more evil in person.

#82 7 years ago
Quoted from 30FathomDave:

Here's my Pro with the white lights swapped out:

Since those photos, I've made a couple of changes (like all red on the zombie kill count), but I like the way it looks. I know others will disagree. Looks way more evil in person.

It's your pin don't worry about what others like. The important thing is that you like it.

#83 7 years ago

Dave, looks pretty cool, what kind of LEDs did you use for general illumination , I've always thought this game looked cooler with the darker look

#84 7 years ago
Quoted from hanzie:

Dave, looks pretty cool, what kind of LEDs did you use for general illumination , I've always thought this game looked cooler with the darker look

Thanks! If I remember correctly, they're mostly warm frosted whites. Towards the back of the machine are some frosted reds, orange and purple. The only cool whites I kept were the ones under the rollovers. I think all the bulbs in this machine were purchased from CoinTaker.

#85 7 years ago

Mine's like Dave's, only redder.

#86 7 years ago

I have never been able to play the Premium. Can someone describe to me what "walker bombs" are? Thanks!

#87 7 years ago
Quoted from rai:

Is the pro almost as good as the premium?

I don't think the pro is nearly as good. But I've played the pro on location so that def will leave a bad taste in your mouth. And I love this pin so much I want the full experience

Light show is BIG
Walker Bombs are HUGE part of the experience
So is Bicycle girl
So is the crossbow
So is Woodbury shot
So is Well Walker magnet and guts

Pro or Premium it's a GREAT pin

I'd get the full experience with the premium

#88 7 years ago
Quoted from Alamo_Pin:

I have never been able to play the Premium. Can someone describe to me what "walker bombs" are? Thanks!

I believe you can hit the walker bomb when lit (button on lockdown bar) and it'll give you the next shot you need.

#89 7 years ago

My guess is the difficulty, it can be brutal with cheap drains sometimes, but I enjoy mine. It's staying in my collection.

#90 7 years ago

The pro actually plays better then the premium I think and much faster and more challenging

#91 7 years ago
Quoted from musketd:

The pro actually plays better then the premium I think and much faster and more challenging

Simply not true

#92 7 years ago

Played both many of times and own the pro and the premium is way easier then the pro

#93 7 years ago

Both are great but I pick the pro myself....

#94 7 years ago
#95 7 years ago

I'm on the pro team as well. I could have had an le but like the pro more.

#96 7 years ago
Quoted from musketd:

Played both many of times and own the pro and the premium is way easier then the pro

I own the LE and have played the pro a lot on location.

It's not easier.

Much more fun with all the different nuances and doesn't play faster. That's absurd

#97 7 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

I own the LE and have played the pro a lot on location.
It's not easier.
Much more fun with all the different nuances and doesn't play faster. That's absurd

I have to agree with this.

#98 7 years ago
Quoted from musketd:

The pro actually plays better then the premium I think and much faster and more challenging

...as evidenced by all the TWD premium/le buyers that sold their pin to buy a pro.

#100 7 years ago
Quoted from musketd:

Played both many of times and own the pro and the premium is way easier then the pro

People often say this when comparing Premiums to Pros, because Pros often are faster (see GoT for the most extreme example). In this case, I see no speed difference in premium to pro for TWD.

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