(Topic ID: 69001)

Why is MM one of the best pins ever?


By rai

5 years ago



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  • 133 posts
  • 71 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 5 years ago by PinballMikeD
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There are 133 posts in this topic. You are on page 3 of 3.
#101 5 years ago

I've played it a handful of times, most recently this past summer. When I first got to play it years ago when I first got into the hobby I didn't fully understand the ruleset and wasn't that good at pinball. I'm still not good, but better, haha. Either way I didn't really see what all the fuss was about, and this was when nice MM's could be had for around $6500. Not to say I didn't think the game was fun, just not $2k - $3k over NIB pricing fun.

I then started to play it on the PS3 and learned the rules and grew to really enjoy the game. I'm not on the list to receive a MMRLE, not that I don't want to be, just got other things I need to take care of first. Hopefully in the future when I'll have money for pinball again I can find one and give the machine a chance in the house and see what all the fuss is about.

I also don't necessarily think it's the best machine ever, I'm not planning on selling any of my current games to get one sooner rather than later.

#102 5 years ago

I've been reading a lot of negativity about the MM remake regarding its price, while I agree $8k is nothing to sneeze at, but The Hobbit is not a real pin yet, it might not be better than MMR and ST LE had my name written all over it, except my XM LE cooled me off Sterns big time, and it's price the dealers actually straight faced told me $7900 and I was like "seriously $7900, that's what they want for ST LE?" So just saying while $8k is not trivial that's not far off Stern LE or JJP and less then used MM are selling for.

#103 5 years ago

No one machine is loved by all, and every machine has it's haters. But when you average out everybody's opinions, MM comes to the top of the list.

The fact that it has ranked at number 1 on Pinside for 3 years and has been top 2 for 10 years says it all.

I've never played the game but I've ordered an MMRLE on this basis. I'm not buying because of hype, I'm buying because of general opinion, there is a difference.

#104 5 years ago
Quoted from Plungemaster:

Try to find out which pin earned the most on location worldwide, then you will find out pretty fast why MM is seen as the best pin on a ranked list.

I don't think knowing that the game takes money explains why people like it... it just demonstrates that people like it... why they like it is the subjective stuff...

#105 5 years ago
Quoted from rai:

I've been reading a lot of negativity about the MM remake regarding its price, while I agree $8k is nothing to sneeze at, but The Hobbit is not a real pin yet, it might not be better than MMR and ST LE had my name written all over it, except my XM LE cooled me off Sterns big time, and it's price the dealers actually straight faced told me $7900 and I was like "seriously $7900, that's what they want for ST LE?" So just saying while $8k is not trivial that's not far off Stern LE or JJP and less then used MM are selling for.

Let's stay with the topic title..... money is dragged in all other MM and MMr topics to no good avail, when you step back and look at it, it's all silly money.

The difference between little boys and grown men ..... the costs of their toys

#106 5 years ago
Quoted from rai:

I just downloade the iPad app looking forward to checking out the game in more detail but I do hate iPad pinball apps in general. Just so disconnected from what an actual pinball game feels like.

I'd like to hear your opinion on this app in general. This and their Xbox game before it are what got me into the pinball scene in the first place. I didn't realize what I missed out on playing video games in the arcades and skipping out on pinball growing up. Because of these games, since they are based on real tables and have the rules handy, I realized how complex these tables really are. Wish I had realized this sooner.

-1
#107 5 years ago

It's not one of the best.

#108 5 years ago
Quoted from Darkslide632:

It's not one of the best.

Well I'm convinced, anyway!

#109 5 years ago

Regarding Tina Fey...

I believe the designers were looking for professional comedic talent, so they found some actors (stage actors/stand up peeps) from (i think) 2nd city. This is a place in Chicago where a lot of aspiring comedic talent goes to get experience in improvisation. Lots of SNL people have come from here.

So they got some of the troupe to do lines and improv some funny stuff, and boy did it pay off. One of those up an coming peeps was Tina Fey, and she can be heard doing the cockney accent (I think peasant?).

I am pretty sure I heard that from one of the TOPcast interviews.

#110 5 years ago
Quoted from fosaisu:

Well I'm convinced, anyway!

As if there is ANYTHING I could say that would change people's minds about it...

#111 5 years ago
Quoted from micro:

Regarding Tina Fey...
I believe the designers were looking for professional comedic talent, so they found some actors (stage actors/stand up peeps) from (i think) 2nd city. This is a place in Chicago where a lot of aspiring comedic talent goes to get experience in improvisation. Lots of SNL people have come from here.
So they got some of the troupe to do lines and improv some funny stuff, and boy did it pay off. One of those up an coming peeps was Tina Fey, and she can be heard doing the cockney accent (I think peasant?).
I am pretty sure I heard that from one of the TOPcast interviews.

I wonder if Tina has any clue that the game became so beloved.

#112 5 years ago
Quoted from rai:

Curious if you can adjust the time limits on MB?

Yes, you can.
I've set up mine very hard: Timers down, Drac Letters to full (need to collect all 7), Bodypart-spotting off, Extra Ball only for 6 Monsters, etc. etc.
Always fun to watch MB first timers that never played the machine but brag about how easy it's supposed to be get their ass kicked.

#113 5 years ago
Quoted from pinballslave:

I don't think knowing that the game takes money explains why people like it... it just demonstrates that people like it... why they like it is the subjective stuff...

This topic is not to explain why people like it. But why it is the best pin.

Slightly different.

#114 5 years ago
Quoted from micro:

So they got some of the troupe to do lines and improv some funny stuff, and boy did it pay off. One of those up an coming peeps was Tina Fey, and she can be heard doing the cockney accent (I think peasant?).

I am pretty sure I heard that from one of the TOPcast interviews.

Anyone have a link to this Topcast? Thanks in advance.

#115 5 years ago
Quoted from PaulCoff:

Anyone have a link to this Topcast? Thanks in advance.

Here you go:

http://www.pinrepair.com/topcast/

#116 5 years ago
Quoted from gweempose:

I wonder if Tina has any clue that the game became so beloved.

She's probably got one,be nice to think she did.

Such a funny self deprecating character on 30 rock.

#117 5 years ago
Quoted from Pimp77:

LOTR clunkiness:
1) Plunging the ball often results in a clunk off the sword ramp and messin up of your skill shot.
2) Sword ramp shot clunks into targets sloppily and dribbles into sword.
3) Gimli saucer shot is terrible because its mostly luck that it stays or passes through.
4) Gandalf shot clunks and clanks through to the lanes (this may be the clunkiest shot in all of pinball).
5) A shire shot is anything but graceful.
6) Path of the Dead clunking into the Shire off plastics.
7) Saucer in top right corner has 50% reject rate it seems. CLUNK!
To me the game plays like a whitewood in progress...but like I said, the flow is there with shots returning the ball to the flippers fairly quickly, although clunkily. At least the Legolas shot is nice and smooth.

you need a different machine. or you need some dialing in. 1. never ever has happened on mine or the many i have played. 2. sounds like your sword ramp is "off" a bit 3. its a very hard shot that has little to do with luck 4.really? 5. granted 6. unique 7. every 10th shot at worst. seen plenty of games that are 10x worse I really think you have a warped machine. too bad to cause I think its the best game out there.

#118 5 years ago
Quoted from yoshootme:

you need a different machine. or you need some dialing in. 1. never ever has happened on mine or the many i have played. 2. sounds like your sword ramp is "off" a bit 3. its a very hard shot that has little to do with luck 4.really? 5. granted 6. unique 7. every 10th shot at worst. seen plenty of games that are 10x worse I really think you have a warped machine. too bad to cause I think its the best game out there.

I agree that some dialing in is in order. For (7) I have probably ~1/8 rejection rate (though sometimes will get a few in a row which is very annoying), but plan on installing some deadening material to all but eliminate that. I do see (1) with a full power plunge, but I don't need to do a full power plunge for any of the skill shots so I don't notice this during "reasonable" play (I suppose one could install a weaker spring to address this). I actually like (3) & (6) as the former requires a "finesse" shot to be consistent (e.g., soft backhand from right flipper) and the latter requires some good nudging of the game to get the ball where you want it to go (i.e., max souls on lit targets and get the ball into the shire for bonus souls). Nice shot/game variation IMO.

(2) and (4) are simply not issues on a dialed-in table. I have no issues/am indifferent with (5)--not significantly different than the catapult shot in MM, for example.

#119 5 years ago
Quoted from Purpledrilmonkey:

I also agree MM is easiest of the AFM, MM, MB trifecta

Okay, I have to strongly disagree with this. The mini wizard and final wizard in MB are just plain *EASY* to get to. I've had numerous games where I've bad both Monsters of Rock and Monster Bash 3 to 4 times in that same game.

I have *never* achieved more than one Battle for the Kingdom in a single MM game.

#120 5 years ago
Quoted from GaryMartin:

Okay, I have to strongly disagree with this. The mini wizard and final wizard in MB are just plain *EASY* to get to. I've had numerous games where I've bad both Monsters of Rock and Monster Bash 3 to 4 times in that same game.

I agree. MB is by far the easiest of the three.

#121 5 years ago
Quoted from Plungemaster:

This topic is not to explain why people like it. But why it is the best pin.

I suggest it is the best pin because people like it... no? I wouldn't say it's the best pin because it earns the most money on site... I'd say it earns the most money on site because it's the best pin... and it is the best pin because people like it... so the question of 'why it is the best pin' is the same as 'why do people like it'... This is getting a bit philosophical

#122 5 years ago
Quoted from Geocab:

I'd like to hear your opinion on this app in general. This and their Xbox game before it are what got me into the pinball scene in the first place. I didn't realize what I missed out on playing video games in the arcades and skipping out on pinball growing up. Because of these games, since they are based on real tables and have the rules handy, I realized how complex these tables really are. Wish I had realized this sooner.

For me, the app is cool to look at the games, it's really nice how they get the sound effects and the DMD and all. But the actual playing of the game while it's OK is not real pinball. I mean I owned CFTBL and BOP and TOTAN and I went back to play the games on my iPad and it made me miss the real games. It was not a substitute for actual playing the real games in any way.

It was really neat to play a few balls on MM and MB. I had only played MB like once or twice. I think it really looks fun, Dracula on a stick was so funny to see. But this is a great way to get a feel for the game or the rules but not fun like playing a real pin. I mean I'd rather have one nice real pin that I could play than have an unlimited number of digital pins. I have not bought the whole app, just played the free tables but not sure I would want to play enough for $30 to buy the whole app.

#123 5 years ago
Quoted from Plungemaster:

This topic is not to explain why people like it.

1)Because it's popular or rated in the top 10 on most lists of pinball machines. I don't mean your own personal lists, but retrospective lists of pinball machines it's usually near the top. (Like if you asked anyone who is a good looking man? Many would say: Brad Pitt or George Clooney. People will say George Clooney is popular/hansom, women like him he's charming, finally it catches on he's popular because people think he's popular, he's well known etc. Some other man could be equally as good looking but not well known and we wouldn't know because he's not well known.). Similarly if you ask who were/are the most beautiful women people might say Kate Upton or Marilyn Monroe. Meaning people who are or were very popular tend to get mentioned more often.

2) it's got a theme that's not too serious, kind of cool and kind of nerdy, I mean you can like the theme and not be a total nerd. But I suspect a lot of pinheads are somewhat nerdy. It doesn't sound like it would be totally bad as a family game (like some might say South Park or ACDC might be inappropriate).

3) it's funny, has good to great art, toys and call outs, seems to have acceptable rules. I don't hear people saying it's super easy or super hard. It sounds like regular people can play it and like it and that real pinball people can also play it and like it.

I'm not sure that is all 100% accurate, but that's what I am kind of getting from what people are saying.

I have seen a few posts that say something like "It's not one of the better pins" but then they don't say why.

It's like those people just want to be contrary. If I said something like: "I enjoy a nice warm spring day sunny and 65 degrees, nice to go out and take a walk". And then a few guys would chirp in "Sunny Spring days suck" But they don't say why. So to me that's just sour grapes. If they would like to add to the discussion fine. Like I said I'd like to hear both sides of the coin. But just to say something like "it's not a good game" doesn't tell me much.

#124 5 years ago
Quoted from Pimp77:

LOTR clunkiness:
1) Plunging the ball often results in a clunk off the sword ramp and messin up of your skill shot.
2) Sword ramp shot clunks into targets sloppily and dribbles into sword.
3) Gimli saucer shot is terrible because its mostly luck that it stays or passes through.
4) Gandalf shot clunks and clanks through to the lanes (this may be the clunkiest shot in all of pinball).
5) A shire shot is anything but graceful.
6) Path of the Dead clunking into the Shire off plastics.
7) Saucer in top right corner has 50% reject rate it seems. CLUNK!
To me the game plays like a whitewood in progress...but like I said, the flow is there with shots returning the ball to the flippers fairly quickly, although clunkily. At least the Legolas shot is nice and smooth.

None of these things are a real issue on my LOTR, which plays very smoothly. Dialing in a game makes a HUGE difference, and LOTR (with its diverters, etc.) particularly benefits from this. To be more specific:

1) Tweaking the lane guides lets you have smooth skill shots. Also, aligning the plunger tip with the enter of the ball helps make smoother plunger shots, on any game.
2) My sword ramp has a solid target hit and roll onto the ramp. Some adjustment may help?
3) The "open" Gimli saucer is a cool skill aspect. It needs a soft shot and sometimes nicking the side post helps get the ball to stay in, rather than a hard shot that goes straight through.
4) Gandalf shot goes smoothly around when you tweak the lane guides. Mine flows just fine.
5) Shire shot--hits the recessed target, stays in and drops in the VUK. Kind of like the MM catapult shot. What more do you want?
6) POTD exit is truly clunky. I put a diverter at the exit to guide the ball smoothly onto the left ramp. No clunky bounce-outs and speeds up the flow overall, with NEGLIGIBLE effect on # of souls.
7) Top right bounce-out is easily solved. Removed the small stubby post/screw, and adhere a foam square over the saucer. 100% smooth shot retention, for slow or fast orbit shots.

Seriously, if people here spent 1/10th of the time dialing in their games as they do sticking in a million gaudy LEDs and gluing cheap plastic toys in them (not accusing you of this!), their games would PLAY so much better! If I see a rough or undesirable bounce in any of my games, I make a mental note and adjust it the next time the glass is off. I see too many games where orbit shots glance off slings instead of rolling smoothly by them as designed to, where certain lanes lead to clunky deflections or sdtm drains, etc. These can be fixed easily, and should be.

#125 5 years ago
Quoted from rai:

For me, the app is cool to look at the games, it's really nice how they get the sound effects and the DMD and all. But the actual playing of the game while it's OK is not real pinball. I mean I owned CFTBL and BOP and TOTAN and I went back to play the games on my iPad and it made me miss the real games. It was not a substitute for actual playing the real games in any way.
It was really neat to play a few balls on MM and MB. I had only played MB like once or twice. I think it really looks fun, Dracula on a stick was so funny to see. But this is a great way to get a feel for the game or the rules but not fun like playing a real pin. I mean I'd rather have one nice real pin that I could play than have an unlimited number of digital pins. I have not bought the whole app, just played the free tables but not sure I would want to play enough for $30 to buy the whole app.

I think it's interesting to hear opinions from other people about this app, thanks for sharing. I really like the game because it has shown me tables I've only heard about and let me experience some of what they offer. And it's nice to learn the rules of a game as this app has VERY in depth rule sheets of the tables they have done. But I'll tell you as soon as I bought my first pin last March my play time of this app has dropped considerably. The feel of real pinball simply cannot be imitated. That said, I do think the game is really well done. The Xbox version is a lot better in feel and also graphically better than the mobile versions and a PC version was just released on Steam. Without this app, I wouldn't have bought a Sorcerer or Firepower because I would never have experienced these out in the wild, at least not long enough to get a good feel for them. (Sorcerer was in the previous game Farsight released.) MM is one table that I have yet to experience in real life so I haven't been able to weigh in much on your topic.

#126 5 years ago

Easy to play, fun to understand, great flow and big solid overall package. Has all the ingredients for success on route... that is why it's so loved and expensive.
If you have it at home, you will get bored faster than a lotr, TZ, sttng..

#127 5 years ago

Stern indy jones is generally seen as an underpar pin gameplaywise.

But it does earn alot, more then multiple other games seen as much more fun.

Now, what is a better pin? A pin most pin fans like but does not earn? Or a pin ignored by the fans and earns alot?

I think an oparator picks differently then a fan. That is why is still think what is the best pin is a different question as what is the most fun pin.

#128 5 years ago
Quoted from Pimp77:

For me, MB is far and away the easiest of the 3. MM being the toughest by far. Lighting all the blue inserts is no easy task. Rule the Universe is way easier to get to than Battle for the Kingdom. But YMMV.

Strongly disagree.

I own both. Getting to BFTK is way easier than getting to RTU. AFM is the harder pin vs MM.

It is way easier to defeat RTU when you get there than it is to complete BFTK though.

#129 5 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

Getting to BFTK is way easier than getting to RTU

That's a relief to hear for me. That means I may actually have a chance to see BFTK! I need to have hope for it to be fun.

It is somewhat of a bummer to have modes on pins you own, that you know you will never see without the glass off (ie Valinor and Spider Multiball in my case).

#130 5 years ago
Quoted from StevenP:

6) POTD exit is truly clunky. I put a diverter at the exit to guide the ball smoothly onto the left ramp. No clunky bounce-outs and speeds up the flow overall, with NEGLIGIBLE effect on # of souls.

Strongly disagree with the "NEGLIGIBLE effect on # of souls". You lose out on a lot of them when you use that stupid diverter, and it is definitely more than enough to negatively impact getting RofK MB started.

#131 5 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

stupid diverter

I don't have that, but there was one time I wish I did. I was about to start valinor when the ball after being put into play, went to the path of the dead, came down and took a funny bounce out of the shire and went SDTM. I was heart broken to say the least.

As far as 'negligible', my guess is you would need one extra trip though POTD, to make up for the lost extra souls, but I've not really 'measured it'.

#132 5 years ago
Quoted from jsauce85:

I'm only referring to any time I move or work under the play field of a Stern compared to a Williams I can feel the difference. The first time I lifted a stern play field I thought it was gonna break in half.

Me too. I swear the damn thing started to crease in the middle and I immediately dropped it down hoping that I had not permanently cracked my playfield in half. TSPP is a great pin but the build quality on my TSPP NIB absolutely sucked.

#133 5 years ago

I don’t know, good question?

I have no interest in owning one myself. I guess that’s because I’ve already owned a bunch of the other “A” list fan pattern machines like MB and AFM. Personally, at this point I want something different that plays unique. I only have space for 5 machines in my home, why have the same game re-themed in 5 different flavors? MM is a fun game to play, but is it any more fun that TS – not for me. I think people like to get the “A” titles (MM, MB, and AFM) because everybody else wants them. They all get old after a while and the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence.

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