(Topic ID: 292889)

Why is JJP still making games with faulty playfields?

By PanzerFreak

2 years ago


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Post #1634 Observations & insight on JJP/Mirco playfield pooling issue Posted by AMSNL (2 years ago)

Post #1649 Uncut playfield photos Posted by AMSNL (2 years ago)

Post #1660 Thin clear coat issues Posted by AMSNL (2 years ago)


Topic indices are generated from key posts and maintained by Pinside Editors. For more information, or to become an editor yourself read this post!

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-17
#146 2 years ago
Quoted from freeplay3:

I would only go through a local distributor and unbox at his location, inspect, then decide if I am taking it. I don't want to burn a distributor by refusing a game, but that is part of their responsibility.

I'm not a distro but if I were that would read to me as "customer not worth the hassle."
When hot games with low supply land (like the GNR CE launch for example) what type of customer do you think distros are going to prioritize?

#175 2 years ago
Quoted from zr11990:

GnR is beautiful but that is all. The code sucks. You bat the ball around till you qualify for a song then you play the song and you do it again. The endless multiballs have no point and they are tiring. Im glad mine is sold

Man. You didn't spend any time to understand the game at all.

"You bat the ball around till you qualify for a song" - No. You run the 4 multiballs and try to maximize jackpots as much as possible to go into the song with a decent song level. You also want to collect as many patches as you can to assist you during the song. And never mind the wizard modes for tour, slash, and the 4 albums...

If you're only going to look at pins at the surface level, you shouldn't buy ones with deep rulesets.

#179 2 years ago
Quoted from Palmer:

I think you are both right. You explained how to play and he explained how it feels when playing. I agree with him. I am a bit disappointed with GnR. It is a whole lot of cool lights and musicality and whole lot of not so fun game play. I've played every JJP game quite a bit (and owned a few) and I must say that it is their worst offering by far. It's just not fun to play. All their other games may have some shortcomings but they have all been fun to play. GnR, not so much. After about 100 plays the allure wears off and all the warts begin to show.

Well I'm sorry that it doesn't work for you. I had a lot of trepidation going into this one, not being a GNR fan or a band pin fan.
For us, the allure of maximizing the pre-song setup, then executing in-song without blowing it is a deep hook.

FWIW my wife and I did both go through a phase where we thought "maybe this isn't the game for us" but that was before we -really- started clicking with the rules. During that time Susan was like "Eh, sell it if you want to."

She's now in the "you cannot sell this" camp. We both are

Assuming you still have yours, try giving it another shot, focusing on a few specific goals:

1. First just try and get all 4 multiballs each time before going into a song. Start off one by one, then try for building the stack of all 4.
2. Next try and get the multiballs -and- nail their jackpots. (Some are really rewarding like the under-flipper jackpot for Crowd)
3. Then in-song, understand how to start Band Frenzy by shooting the active band members until all are lit, then spam the center spinner to blow up the jackpot.
4. One you've got that, now start looking at building patches before the song...many of them will spot characters for the whole game, making band frenzy easier to get. I like to get Rose, Fender, Gibson, Vader and Skull...this spots everyone except Richard (spinner) and the keyboardists. Once you get a song with 4-5 band frenzies blowing things up, I bet you'll be hooked.

#185 2 years ago
Quoted from zr11990:

It was georgious and at first it was fun but there truly is nothing but qualify for the song and play the song. When you finish the song you can collect a jackpot or play the song again, rinse and repeat.

I literally just told you all of the things there are to shoot for and achieve aside from "qualify for the song and play the song."

You really missed the mark.

#188 2 years ago
5ahgkt.jpg5ahgkt.jpg
#215 2 years ago
Quoted from Frax:

Sounds a lot like Hobbit....just stack all the shit all the time and you're fine as long as you're halfway competent at playing a multiball.
Ironically, this is a chronic issue with JJP games. They've almost gone TOO far with trying to layer and let people stack up everything. There's no sense of progression or achievement when I'm playing Hobbit. I couldn't tell you where I am on the modes, or care less, because 99% of my time is spent in double stacked monster+smaug multiball.
And now you're saying that this game wants you to play FOUR MULTIBALLS....before every mode? And they all stack?! Oh god, no.

I'm telling ya man, it's fun and addictive. Come over and see!

#344 2 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

My MC adds another year to the warranty after the manufacturer warranty expires.
If a distributor told me 'bank wire only' on such a dicy product, I'd tell him to eat cock.

I've always had to wire it. Distros don't seem to like eating the 3% credit card fees.

#393 2 years ago
Quoted from BMore-Pinball:

We are not talking rocket science
CNC Cut Plywood - Printed - Clear Coated
There has got to be another company in the US that is not in the pinball business that can do this - Furniture maker, sign company, etc...

Hammering in the inserts is an important part of it too.

For all the Mirco faults, I haven't heard any complaints on inserts of ghosting, crazing, etc.

#398 2 years ago
Quoted from BMore-Pinball:

I thought that was done at JJP

Doing that would shatter the clear coat, AFAIK the inserts are done first, then art, then clear.

#479 2 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

I get it. But I play my GNR and Wonka CEs and have a blast and I’m not experiencing the same issues
I sincerely hope they work it out and am sure they will. Stern did
There is no reasonable resolution other than them stating they are switching pf manufacturers and that admits guilt
Has Stern ever said how they solved their pf issues? I don’t think so

You’re not supposed to PLAY them Ice! You’re supposed to admire them, mod them, obsess about the cosmetics then sell with under 200 plays.

#487 2 years ago
Quoted from Extraballz:

Pin Derek has spoken..........

You’re really kind of a dick with that.

There is no “Pin Derek.” It’s a hobby and a pastime not who I am. You don’t know me. Nor do you deserve to.

#490 2 years ago
Quoted from Extraballz:

Can’t you just get a convertible and a leather jacket to get through the mid life crisis? You don’t have to protect companies that don’t deserve to be protected to keep the pinball dream alive. There are people who are very distressed about getting defective playfields here. And you try to downplay and make jokes? I know you haven’t been in the hobby long enough to know the quality we used to get but that is your problem. Not ours. Stop being part the problem and start trying to help or shut your pie hole on the subject.

I already have a 911 Targa bro. I'm not "protecting" anyone.

From where I sit, I'm having a great time while you're gatekeeping and being angry AF on Pinside.

I win.

#494 2 years ago
Quoted from jimwe5t:

Derek doesn’t get it and never will, since JJP is his own version of a cult. He drinks the cult coolaid and wins nothing. His attitude is why JJP will never fix all their problems and change. (BTW Derek, I raise your measly 911, with a Ferrari 488 Pista - we do things bigger in LA lol)

Nice car!! Pm me pics, would love to see it.

#496 2 years ago
Quoted from jimwe5t:

Thanks! But come on, if your beautiful 911 paint job started pealing, cracking and pooling, would you just say, forget about the looks and just drive it? Would you give a pass to Porsche that all is well, because you like driving it?

TBH every car forum I've ever been on has had at least one thread about how "poor quality paint" is causing rock chips. All manufacturers.

I just get my cars wrapped with clearbra so I can drive without concern.

#498 2 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

I haven't owned a car since 1998 and it was a 1983 Ford Crown Victoria.
God I miss that car.
What were we talking about again?

Screen Shot 2021-05-27 at 10.28.52 PM.pngScreen Shot 2021-05-27 at 10.28.52 PM.png
2 months later
#1680 2 years ago

I bought a spare playfield for my Wonka just based on how much use we put on the thing. I think it looks pretty good, though I don't have closeup hole photos.

Whenever I need to install it, my plan is to use a tapered reamer to widen the clear around each hole a bit.
That's from Vid's playfield swap guide.
IMG_2562.jpegIMG_2562.jpeg

IMG_2563.jpegIMG_2563.jpeg

-30
#1699 2 years ago
Quoted from robotron:

jjp letting gnr owners buy a playfield for cost as a concession is ridiculous.

I was willing and planning to buy a playfield at the full $1100 price, so to me this is a generous offer in compromise.

But you people will never be happy.

#1705 2 years ago
Quoted from Vespula:

Please don't feed the.....

Remember what happened last time? You left, and it was as if millions of voices suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced.

Hah. It wasn't due to this thread I assure you.

Your_Boos_Mean_Nothing_Banner.jpgYour_Boos_Mean_Nothing_Banner.jpg
-1
#1708 2 years ago
Quoted from BMore-Pinball:

I just can't understand the logic .... Please help me understand.
I can understand you being ok with it, but to call it generous? JJP gets off unscathed
The product had defects out of the box for a lot of people and you have to pay to buy a replacement?
Please tell me what other consumer product company operates like this?
At the very least they should refund your money spent on the new PF if you send the old one back (which they should pay the shipping for) - which is still absurd but better than current offer

It's simple. I control the things I can. Playfield damage is something that can be rectified with a new playfield so I went ahead and planned on buying one.
Problem out of mind.

Then this offer came out which reduced the price by 50% which is nothing but great news to me.

#1713 2 years ago
Quoted from John_I:

I think it was your use of the word "generous" that was mostly in question. Whether you saved money on a purchase or not, you still can't possibly be arguing that JJP is being generous here?

Well, I suppose that's admittedly debatable.

For me, I was prepared for them to do nothing at all. They met me halfway which was an unexpected surprise.

#1720 2 years ago
Quoted from BMore-Pinball:

Would love to have all my customers exactly like you - what a wet dream being able to charge customers for our issues and defects and even have them happy about it. Damm, I need some of the pills you are taking.

I hear you - I get your point, I do.

For me this was worth a small spend to push the issue out of mind and keep having fun with my machine.

And speaking of having fun with the machine, PinMonk's fan kit for GNR is a (literal) game-changer! The flippers remain robust for hours of play. Recommended!

#1728 2 years ago
Quoted from Pinhead1982:

zaphX, could you post pictures of your playfield as it currently stands.

Of course!

Here's a few I have handy. If there's something you want to see more of, LMK. Play count is around 4000 if I remember right.

IMG_0089.jpegIMG_0089.jpegIMG_0091.jpegIMG_0091.jpegIMG_0262.jpegIMG_0262.jpeg
#1730 2 years ago
Quoted from Pinhead1982:

zaphX, could you post pictures of your playfield as it currently stands.

Here's a few more. Underneath shot showing the fans installed, some close-ups of the areas I "repaired" with the cliffy CF rings.

There's a chip in progress on the guitar neck, I'll touch that up when it happens.

IMG_0354 (resized).jpegIMG_0354 (resized).jpegIMG_0355 (resized).jpegIMG_0355 (resized).jpegIMG_0356 (resized).jpegIMG_0356 (resized).jpegIMG_0357 (resized).jpegIMG_0357 (resized).jpegIMG_0358 (resized).jpegIMG_0358 (resized).jpegIMG_0359 (resized).jpegIMG_0359 (resized).jpegIMG_0360 (resized).jpegIMG_0360 (resized).jpegIMG_0361 (resized).jpegIMG_0361 (resized).jpegIMG_0362 (resized).jpegIMG_0362 (resized).jpeg
3 weeks later
#1772 2 years ago
Quoted from metallik:

Dude's got a washer the size of a quarter under the post and it's still wrinkling badly. There is no bulletproofing these games.

That's why I'm not trying to. Once it chips, the damage doesn't spread. That was true on POTC and Wonka too. So let it chip, then cover it, and you're done.

No this is not okay. It's just all we can do to work around it for now.

1 week later
-8
#1860 2 years ago
Quoted from jimwe5t:

Good point, we need to talk about this till enough people are aware to avoid being sucked into the next JJP new shiny, as it will surely have all these same issues, just like the last 4 games have had.

If you think your rants will stop sales, you’re wrong.

-4
#1869 2 years ago
Quoted from BMore-Pinball:

They already have .....
Maybe not his rant specifically, but the posting of issues on this forum directly stopped me from buying a GNR

Well sure. It will stop some sales.

Me, I'm on the list for JJP7 CE already.

#1874 2 years ago
Quoted from jeffro01:

WHY??? I have a ton of respect for you and all of the support you've provided the community on a number of games but... WHY???
Some things I just cannot wrap my head around and this is one of them...
Jeff

I like playing the games, simple as that. They are not museum pieces for me. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

-3
#1877 2 years ago
Quoted from jeffro01:

Fair enough I suppose. For me it's not an issue of "museum pieces" but simple basic quality. For the prices being charged, I have an expectation of quality and I don't think that's unreasonable or out of line. Someone has to buy these pieces of junk NIB so people like me can buy the weeded out ones that aren't junk.
Jeff

I hear you and respect that. For me, an extra $500 and a fun (to me) project to refresh it later is acceptable. Understand it's not for everyone.

#1888 2 years ago
Quoted from jimwe5t:

Derrick ol buddy, you are unusual and don’t care your JJP product looks like crap. You’ve drunk the koolaid. More power to you, since having your machines play and look nice is not your gig. You don’t mind spending large sums of money, only to be required to work on your JJP machines endlessly to keep them semi playing.
For most of us, we care, so when JJP stopped caring 4 games ago, we should too. This absolutely affects sales, as more and more become aware of the JJP fallacy of “quality” products. Even JJP knows there is no quality products produced by them and they’ve re-crafted their warranty to reflect that, by making it a “no warranty” policy.

*Derek please, I'm not an oil gathering appliance

#1889 2 years ago

Also, I've posted my pics with the cliffy coverups a few times - does that really "look like crap?" It's not ideal but it's certainly passable for me.

#1891 2 years ago
Quoted from jimwe5t:

Whoops, Derek it is.

Much appreciated Common error I've fought my entire life.

10
#1895 2 years ago
Quoted from jandrea95:

I live in a world where jimwe5t and zaphX are able to cordially communicate comfortably in the presence of one another. Both sides of the spectrum and yet manage to be able to shake hands in the name of pinball.
Tonight, I am a proud to live in that world.

In a world of incivility it's nice when we can disagree without being disagreeable.

1 week later
#1929 2 years ago
5nawut.jpg5nawut.jpg
1 week later
#2007 2 years ago
Quoted from 27dnast:

I'm guessing this is all driven by resale value? I'm not knocking you, but I think the root cause of everyone's angst over these playfield issues comes down to dollars and cents.

Nope. Show me a JJP that's not selling for more than the original MSRP.

1 week later
-12
#2256 2 years ago
Quoted from smalltownguy2:

JJP should have sent out a populated playfield. That's what I asked for. They did not. Impasse. I am not happy.

And we'll get to hear about it for the next 45 years.

Didn't this happen to you in 2019?

1 week later
#2318 2 years ago
Quoted from 27dnast:

But they gave you a new playfield, right?

And he's had multiple people offer to install it for him. He just likes to have an axe to grind, he doesn't actually want a solution.

-3
#2328 2 years ago
Quoted from 27dnast:

Right, if you don't want it, I'm sure there's another collector out there that would take it and install it in their game. Turn some lemons into lemonade for someone

He just wants to complain about it. Forever and ever. He has rejected all reasonable solutions and demands the one he is 100% certain not to get.

#2343 2 years ago
Quoted from smalltownguy2:

I thought you left Pinside? And what the hell are you doing posting in this thread anyway? You don't care about playfield issues I thought. Go play your game and stop trying to minimize other people's concerns.

If you get to keep whining, so do I.

2 weeks later
#2379 2 years ago
Quoted from Faust:

Look, a POTC with 8000 thousand plays, this made me laugh.
Surprisingly it has no mechanical issues, but the playfield is completely done for.
It looks less bad on the picture, but it has a deep crater where the ball drops, through the print, far in the wood.
Mirco’s wood and print is completely inferior to those if the WPC95 era. I don’t remember ever seeing a game in this bad shape on the inlanes.
[quoted image]
[quoted image]
Around the slings also heavy chipping and pooling.
[quoted image]

Wonkas suffer at these drops too. I recommend the Cliffy inlane protectors for the drops on both games.

#2387 2 years ago
Quoted from bobukcat:

I may be in the minority with this opinion but I HATE those inlane Cliffys, always affects the ball and often leads to ball hangs you have to nudge out.

It depends on how you install them. I found that one orientation caused ball hangs and flipping 180 stopped them.

#2430 2 years ago
Quoted from Zitt:

I pray for you and your NIB.
I hope that you remain a fan when your Wonka PF looks like a old, melted chocolate bar from the delamination of the clear and dirt getting between the art and clear. When that happens to your NIB; I hope you'll let us know you are still a fan.
I'm really serious; but hope you never have that problem.

Strangely, my Wonka with over 10K plays doesn't have that problem.

#2433 2 years ago
Quoted from Zitt:

Strangely, I've never jumped off a bridge ... but that doesn't mean watching others fall to their death doesn't impress upon me the the need to also jump off a bridge without a chute.
JJP quality suxs; and *I* am not stupid enough to buy a 12k self destructing machine.

But apparently not smart enough to stay out of JJP threads that don't affect you. Weird!

#2439 2 years ago
Quoted from Mike_J:

He’s stealing a page out of your playbook.

[citation needed]

3 months later
#2479 2 years ago
Quoted from dsmoke1986:

I just got a GnRLE, born on date is Jan 22'. The playfield is perfect

So was mine until it wasn't.

Don't obsess about it, just enjoy the game.

-1
#2485 2 years ago
Quoted from MaxIsDead:

Mine is still good and I do enjoy the game. Why do you support their garbage quality. They should replace your playfield if its subpar.

I buy spares.

#2488 2 years ago
Quoted from BMore-Pinball:

we know ....
Porsche sells you a car with bad tires, you just buy new ones
no fcks given
You will out live me for sure

Hah, not sure if you're stalking me on other forums but that literally happened.

My rear tires were worn down to the cords at 10.5K.
I really couldn't blame them for it as my driving style is aggressive, so I just bought replacements.

#2492 2 years ago
Quoted from BMore-Pinball:

LOL - that's too funny.
You're ok in my book

You too man, hoping to lift a glass at TPF with you and others.

1 week later
-1
#2510 2 years ago
Quoted from smalltownguy2:

Easier said than done. There will always be the guy who talks the big game, then dishes out $13,000 because of FOMO. Hypocrites.

And I'll think of you when I do it.

#2512 2 years ago
Quoted from smalltownguy2:

Most of us already know you are part of the problem.
Because of people like you this issue will NEVER get fixed.

Happy to be of service!

#2515 2 years ago
Quoted from jfh:

Not me. I was in on a CE. Cancelled my spot because of JJPs actions/inactions and I *really* wanted Toy Story. Will no longer consider buying a JJP game unless things change.

And while you sit on the sidelines the CEs will sell out.

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