(Topic ID: 292889)

Why is JJP still making games with faulty playfields?

By PanzerFreak

2 years ago


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4 key posts have been marked in this topic

Display key post list sorted by: Post date | Keypost summary | User name

Post #1634 Observations & insight on JJP/Mirco playfield pooling issue Posted by AMSNL (2 years ago)

Post #1649 Uncut playfield photos Posted by AMSNL (2 years ago)

Post #1660 Thin clear coat issues Posted by AMSNL (2 years ago)


Topic indices are generated from key posts and maintained by Pinside Editors. For more information, or to become an editor yourself read this post!

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13
#458 2 years ago

I’m glad my pic was used in several post on FB as an example. I’m in the fucked up playfield club. JJP got me back into pinball and now they are pushing me out of pinball. I’m loosing interest. Thanks for caring JJP. This is just one post of at least 10 I have spotted in my CE. I was told by JJP no replacement playfields. I called Barry 5 times today. No answer. Probably told not to answer the damn phone.

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#619 2 years ago
Quoted from zr11990:

The playfielsd were shit starting with Woz.

Not true at all. PERIOD! My WOZ, Hobbit and Dialed In are perfect. It started with Pirates for sure. Something changed with the chemical process. Go back to how Hobbit was done to make sure and the problem is solved.

#637 2 years ago
Quoted from Damonator:

You have a WoZ that didn’t have any chips on the upper PF? Most people have a chip or two (unless they installed a cliffy edge protector on day one).
My Hobbit has been great too - I agree that seems to be their best playfield.

I heard a batch of WOZ playfields by Bader were bad. Mine is fine. In this post, they did recognize an issue before GNR was done.
337C444A-A5AD-4EB4-87C5-E1BA5DB14A49 (resized).jpeg337C444A-A5AD-4EB4-87C5-E1BA5DB14A49 (resized).jpeg

#675 2 years ago

My distributor got an email from Barry today about my GNRCE. They will buy it back and I have until June 7th to make my mind up. If I decline, no other resolution will be offered. They know no CE owner will do this (I think) so it’s a easy way out for them.

#679 2 years ago
Quoted from PinMonk:

It's crazy because if they offered an at-cost playfield for like $500, I think most people would be satisfied (not happy, satisfied). This buyback is the worst possible route because most people WANT to keep the machine. They don't want to give it back, but JJP isn't giving the REASONABLE option.

Exactly. You nailed it. I want the damn pin. I love it except for the playfield. I have been offered 17k as is but I don’t want the $. I don’t need the $. I just want a better playfield. Jesus Christ!!

#681 2 years ago
Quoted from Extraballz:

They are giving you a full refund on a defective machine. Correct?

Yes they would. They said in an email but I don’t want to sell it.

#683 2 years ago
Quoted from metallik:

Does this include them refunding all payments, including original shipping and tax, and also them paying to have the game removed from your house, packed and shipped back to JJP?
If so, I'd say that's reasonable, and JJP can justify it by claiming lack of replacement parts to send.
If they aren't willing to cover all shipping and handling costs both ways, that is very bad. No customer should be out money when the product is faulty out of the box.

I’m not sure. I didn’t even ask my distributor. I just told them to tell Barry I decline on their offer.

#684 2 years ago
Quoted from PinMonk:

Have you communicated that to Barry? That you'd pay for an at-cost playfield and be okay with that, even if it was the promise of that playfield at the end of the run? I mean, it's a REASONABLE accommodation. This "no soup for you" nonsense is not.

Yes they know I would take a unpopulated playfield. It’s not a option.

#687 2 years ago

When I get time I will have to do a complete tear down and put washers where needed. Pain in the ass on a 5 month old game but oh well. In the meantime my league guys are going to want to play but I can’t let them. The more it’s played the worse it gets.

#835 2 years ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

Owner reports from the latest run games are so far so good, will see what happens after 100+ plays. Still, seeing washers installed all over is concerning. If playfield issues are resolved there shouldn't be a need to install washers all over.

No playfields are resolved. Washers is their fix. They are just praying they hold up.

#839 2 years ago
Quoted from Bendit:

Is that a fact? How do you know this?

Then tell me why all GNR’s come with washers installed and my 27 year old Addams Gold did not? That’s because the problem is still there!!

#845 2 years ago
Quoted from zr11990:

No one includes everyone. Of course not everyone is that way, some people and corps have scruples but not many. And to further answer your question, Stern seems to have gotten a lot better. Their shit is still way overprices and there are still bad PFs,cabs and such but they seem to have gotten better and if you keep at them they might do something about it. JJp and Mirco however will hide behind the curtain and pretend you don't exist then raise the price.

Put it this way. JJP got me back into pinball. Stern’s are crap to me. With that being said, if JJP does not make this right, I will switch over to spooky and American. It’s simple.

#865 2 years ago
Quoted from BMore-Pinball:

I am out on any future JJP title until they have a track record of quality!

You will be out forever!

2 weeks later
#1097 2 years ago
Quoted from jimwe5t:

Just 2 examples:
1. WW, the ball completely slows down by disappearing behind the TV screen and for a while you have no idea where or what the ball is doing, till a big arrow on the screen begins flashing to tell you the ball will be exiting out of slowville area.
2. Dialed In the ball shooting from left side goes so slow at times, it actually stops on the back of the habit trail before reaching the mechanic woman diverter. Ball can also go through Bob left orbit and completely disappear, when by sound only you hear ball goes into trap door and then through tunnel to phone. All the while you sit there and wait and see no ball action at all.
The point of pinball is to actually see the ball. In both these examples of WW and DI, the ball goes missing much of the game. Playing a ball in tunnels is not fun, hence why Stern stopped or will not make subways. JJP has not yet learned that lesson. Slow games are painful and not too fun. GNR is a sssllllllooooooowwwww painful game when the light show wears off. Not much else to it, as it goes from MB to MB, because there is literally nothing else for Keith J. to program the ball to interact with. No mechs. This is why many people are calling GNR a “boring game.” I do admit GNR cover of Sir Paul’s song is impressive with all the lights going during the cover song GNR does. But that wears off by about the tenth time seeing it. Lol

Do you own any JJP Pins?

3 weeks later
-1
#1360 2 years ago
Quoted from jimwe5t:

PFreak my friend: it is comical you continue to put a tiny company like JJP like they are in actual competition with a giant company like Stern. JJP can only put out 45 games tops a week and Stern puts out nearly 100 games a day. Sorry, JJP is not “kicking” anything. They put out 1 game every two years, they’re so small. Now the comparisons could be made with Spooky and they are in fact kicking JJPs rear end, with 2 new titles released at once and every 18 months, not w years like even smaller JJP does since they began nearly 13 years ago.
Quit ragging on Stern and remember your own mantra: “Criticism doesn't automatically mean a game is bad or sucks. At these insane prices criticism…”, as I write critical things about your beloved JJP from time to time. I just want JJP to finally get their act together and actually treat us the customer the way Stern, AP, CGC and Spooky treats us, with respect and honoring repairs. JJP doesn’t do this. Why you continue to support JJP by buying their faulty products is beyond comprehension. JJP has no need to change with groveling customers such as yourself.

My apologies, as now I see your post was directed at Pfreak and not me. Thanks for clarifying and you're comment is correct.

Stern...

#1388 2 years ago

Per Barry.... No playfields will be sent out at this time.

#1449 2 years ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

Still don't see it anywhere on the sides, weird.

Pull the playfield out and set it on the lock down bar receiver. The stamp is on the very back of the playfield. Not on top or bottom. The end of the playfield. All have the stamps.

#1460 2 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Let’s drop a poll thread up and see how many people would agree to BOYCOTT JJP
Litigation isn’t the answer
The distributors? They need to get involved too

I agree w/ this. But, I would like to know if someone does vote to boycott, what games do they currently have in their own collection and have they ever owned a JJP game? Those who hid their current list of games, always has me thinking TROLL!!! Just saying...

#1480 2 years ago

Will JJP be at Allentown this month? Love to talk to them.

#1485 2 years ago
Quoted from romulusx:

Even Jack doesn’t care if you buy one!
What I want you to do now is go buy every new Stern made in the last 10 years and just keep playing and playing and playing…………………………..

#1491 2 years ago
Quoted from jimwe5t:

Will do on the TS PF issue. In the meantime will enjoy with you our discussion everything JJP.

Do you currently own any JJP games? I don’t need a long drawn out answer. Just yes or no?

#1505 2 years ago

Which ones? I have Dialed In LE, RR Wizard of Oz and GNR CE.

#1533 2 years ago
Quoted from Tranquilize:

Blah, blah, blah. Stern is just as bad. They used to be worse. They learned after Ghostbusters ghosting issues that it is way cheaper to ignore and explain away pf issues. Stern has gotten a lot better, but they still have a long way to go.

Exactly. A friend had a GB w/ a cabinet that was splitting. Stern said glue it and put clamps on it..

2 weeks later
#1570 2 years ago
Quoted from arzoo:

Jack Guarnieri doubles down and blames pf damage on owners, nice!

Where did he say this?

-7
#1586 2 years ago
Quoted from zr11990:

Wow, what a total piece of shit. Fuck you Jack. SR may soon wish he had stayed at Stern when people stop buying Jersey Junk games

The only two companies to buy from now are Soooky and American. Stern sucks big time as well. We are all doomed.

#1590 2 years ago
Quoted from Elvishasleft:

What sucks exactly?? Ive owned probably 35 Sterns over the years and have had little to complain about.
Not every game is a winner but overall service and durability has been fine.

The last Stern i owned was my last for my personal collection. GB cabinet was splitting so bad i could see inside the cabinet from the outside. Don’t make up an excuse for that either. There is none. A friend got a Black Knight pro and he had a bad chip in the playfield at the bottom near the apron. Stern told him you will have to live with it. Say what u want, they have their own issues as well.

#1636 2 years ago
Quoted from AMSNL:

Like I talked about with kruzman , here is the real issue. And the Real issue is with mirco. I have Uncut playfields from him to back this all up .
Mirco does the back and inserts for test then prints his games first on wood then clearcoats it.
After that he cuts/drills the holes and kickers/lanes , and clearcoat again. Here is where the issue is. The first clearcoat is still soft and when cutting there is no protection on the cutted sections.you can see that in the pictures .
after the seconds clearcoat is stacked without even had the time to harden Here comes the pooling issue
So for the cut out holes there is no overlap clearcoat on the wood or just so so that chipping is the first thing that will happen. And pooling comes for the thick stacking of the clearcoat in areas around it . There is nothing you can do about it other then to have someone like kruzman or any painter first have to remove the unsettled clearcoat . And refinish it with a new layer and let it sit.
So this has not much to do with the JJP line builders persee, as the clearcoat will stay so soft it will eat any playfield no matter what they do. Yes some hardware can fix some but not the issue that there are there.
JJP also has a contract with mirco when he and his buddies invested money into JJP when they had lots of trouble in 2013-2014. Even if JJP wants out they can’t
And to make it worse for you all.... mirco is making the new JJP no7 playfields as we speak
Here you can see a brand new mini playfield from pirates with those issues can be seen. I will upload pictures later of the uncut playfields
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

Very bad news for JJP NIB future games. I don't have to worry about NIB JJP games anymore.

4 weeks later
#1838 2 years ago
Quoted from smalltownguy2:

Exactly my sentiment. I had an extra $10K burning a hole in my pocket this summer, and rather than grabbing a GnR, I put it down on this instead.
Too bad for you, JJP. My next purchase will likely be a Spooky pin.
[quoted image]

Love the Truck and the color. Bad ass dude..... I'm looking for a Truck as we speak...

#1846 2 years ago
Quoted from jimwe5t:

I second this opinion. Who really wants a pin so bad, they’ll put up with glaring defects all over the PF. Honestly, the JJP apologists are really bending over on this one. To say the least, all these countless photos of GNR nightmarish play fields are disgusting. That JJP won’t stand behind their product, with zero warranty on the most important component is incredible.
The idea they pass the buck to a 3rd party and don’t take responsibility for still putting artwork under stress points all over the PF. Still have holes drilled wider than the posts for wobbly post movement. Ordering too thick of a clear coat. Not allowing the PF enough time to properly cure. All these issues are squarely on film flam JJPs shoulders and not Mirco’s. But hey JJP fanboys don’t want JJP to fess up and make things right. They’re okay with paying outrageous sums of monies for poor quality workmanship from JJP. If any other company put out this kind of crap for product, many people would boycott them till they fixed it. Not line up again for pinball table scraps, like sycophants often do. It is mind blowing JJP gets away with the worst product in the industry, because they throw on lots of plastic, cheap LEDs, with almost no ball interactive mechs. All for the highest prices in the industry. Unbelievable!

I normally don't agree with you a lot of the time but in this situation i have to agree. I have owned 4 out of 6 JJP games and have supported them from day one. The way i have been treated in this situation with my CE is unbelievable. It will be the last NIB purchase with JJP.

#1848 2 years ago
Quoted from Jecco74:

Same… I own 4 JJP pins paid for two NIB. Both NIB had playfield issues. I will not be purchasing any more NIB after all of this lack of customer service and Jack blaming the customers for the problems.
FYI, I love the pins JJP produces. I just can’t deal with the headaches and lack of communication with them.

I will be in the market for a used Toy Story with no issues later on but as far as new $ from me to JJP, NOT HAPPENING!!!

#1871 2 years ago
Quoted from zaphX:

If you think your rants will stop sales, you’re wrong.

I agree w/ a few things he says because its true but Stern is NO better. They have their own issues that continue. The best built pins right now are Spooky and American.

#1914 2 years ago
Quoted from fastchef:

I’ve contacted Barry multiple times with no reply on how to go about stopping this before it chips.

#1918 2 years ago
Quoted from thechakapakuni:

Well I’m either gonna need to set aside 6 hours to bulletproof my NIB or sell it. As time goes on it just doesn’t seem worth the hassle

I’m very close to feeling the same way.

#1920 2 years ago
Quoted from BMore-Pinball:

Has JJP provided any assurance that the replacement PF's are any better?

2 weeks later
#2072 2 years ago

My teardown has begun.

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#2075 2 years ago
Quoted from thechakapakuni:

Are you replacing the Playfield?

No. Washers, etc…. New playfields are no guarantees of any difference. Plus, no CE Playfields are available.

#2079 2 years ago
Quoted from thechakapakuni:

Ok. Yeah I’m gathering a list of bulletproof items and post to be sure I’m covering everything. I’m curious when the PFs finally come out who’s gonna jump first. If I keep this pin I’ll buy one and probably have it clear coated professionally. Hopefully I’ll never have to replace it, if not I can sell it

From my understanding from a expert who clears playfields, if they don't change the method of how the ink is applied, it wont matter. Mirco is the issue.

#2093 2 years ago
Quoted from thechakapakuni:

Agreed, which is why the plan would be to get the new GNR PF and strip the clear to the art, then re-clear coat it with acrylic - the 80s toxic shiz that works (or send it to Kruzman)

The point is the INK is not bonding. Does not matter about the clear. The best clearcoat professional in the world could clear it. If the ink is not bonding, it will pull the clear right up.

#2094 2 years ago
Quoted from allsportdvd:

Do you really need to tear down that much to add washers? Seems a little overkill to me

Yes!! I have pooling on post that are not even touched by the ball.

#2101 2 years ago
Quoted from thechakapakuni:

Did your art peel up in addition to the clear?

Yes. Not only did the art work come up, it pulled the clear and mylar.

#2111 2 years ago
Quoted from PinFever:

Now this is not good on JJP ,You coming here telling other CE buyers that we are Nothing, we are not as important as you and your Game is Warrantied and ours is not. I am sure my money and yours is the same > WHAT THE F is going on here. ? Let the floodgates open and let us all Get Warrantied . WTF is this really?.
Happy for you and What a bunch of Bullshit that this is the way JJP Barry helps who the F he wants and fks others. This is not good for Ethics.
Ethics one OH One 101 Treat all equal. Now look at this Bullshit .
Way to ruin my morning. F You JJP>

Not sure if this matters but he is talking about a Willy Wonka CE playfield not a GNRCE playfield.

#2117 2 years ago

I ordered washers from Titan but the holes are to small. Is everyone ordering this?

F9DC015E-3A1B-4907-871E-CAD9B0B6EAA8 (resized).pngF9DC015E-3A1B-4907-871E-CAD9B0B6EAA8 (resized).png
#2125 2 years ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

Here's a picture of where JJP is installing the latest post and washer combination on GNR, 11 posts total. These should be implemented on games with late June builds and going forward. If these are already installed on your game no post / washer changes are probably needed, posts about playfield issues on the most recent builds have been non existent on Pinside and the JJP fan Facebook group.
[quoted image]

Is this a standard pic or did they create this due to the playfield issues?

1 week later
#2271 2 years ago
Quoted from Zitt:

Wouldn't care if JJp is doing star trek Picard or discovery .. they wouldn't get a dime of my money with the current management and quality problems

Have you ever owned a JJP?

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