(Topic ID: 292889)

Why is JJP still making games with faulty playfields?

By PanzerFreak

2 years ago


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Post #1634 Observations & insight on JJP/Mirco playfield pooling issue Posted by AMSNL (2 years ago)

Post #1649 Uncut playfield photos Posted by AMSNL (2 years ago)

Post #1660 Thin clear coat issues Posted by AMSNL (2 years ago)


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#67 2 years ago
Quoted from PinRob:

Didn’t Micro come out awhile ago and claim something has been done to make his playfields better?

After the initial run of GnR SE which did have problems,the production was halted again and problem was suppose to be addressed by Mirco's people.They made an announcement of better QC and each playfield would be marked as solid.For quite a while there was no mention of any playfield issues but here we are again.Are these new problem playfields or are we just rehashing the old problem ones that have just now been sold as new?

#104 2 years ago
Quoted from jimwe5t:

Right on the money, Jack and JJP don’t care, because the market is buying anyway. This won’t end till we say no to any company releasing crappy play fields or products. 3 games and counting. We can all be assured that Toy Story will have the same issues, because JJP will not change vendors. Because JJP knows any vendor they change to will have same issues because PF formula JJP orders will be the same for their look. Mirco is not the real problem, it is JJP.

Is this Gary Stern or just a member of the Stern army?Jesus man you do protest too much!I guess you just ain't going to ever give it up!GnR's is fucking game of the year and Toy Story is going to sell in the big numbers, but just keep bitching and go play your Stern's.They make some fun games too!

1 month later
#967 2 years ago

All this bullshit and I would still love to have a GnR!My Wonka and DI are both top notch playfields.I guess I was lucky.Now somebody sell me one of those crappy GnR’s cheap!

#974 2 years ago
Quoted from Doctor6:

Dialed Ins had mostly great playfields. This pooling crap really started with Wonka. So you are 1 for 1.

I know some Wonka’s had pooling but they had pretty much fixed it by the month of October builds that year.My Wonka was perfect and that all I’m speaking about.It’s been documented about the early problems.That’s what’s so troubling I really thought they had the issue resolved,and now all this bullshit with GnR playfields.The second worst thing about this is all the crap from obvious Stern fan boys and their lame ass comments!

#997 2 years ago
Quoted from Doctor6:

I will agree that Wonka's seemed to fix the problem. I even commented in the "jjp and stern" crappy playfield thread that they should take down jjps name, as they were fixed. But the issue came back full force. So now I'm jaded AF against them.... which sucks to say. I felt for a while they were the spiritual successor to Williams/Bally.

I completely agree with being jaded!
I’m sick of this shit too their games are a blast and they are a modern continuation of B/W.It’s hard to defend the latest round of playfield fuck ups.I would stop the line and work to correct problem with Mirco until finished with GnR.And then find a reliable playfield maker for Toy Story!
Does anyone want to guess what title JJP is making after TS?

#1000 2 years ago
Quoted from Jaybird815:

Romper room or Captain Kangaroo

Just Stupid not funny!

#1006 2 years ago

So now we’ve become teenage girls?
I was just asking if anybody knew what was next on the slate.I realized your pissed about playfields but if they can finally change vendors JJP makes a great product and it’s a shame one of the greatest pins ever made is dragged down by this bullshit

#1011 2 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Teenage girls?
With the obsession with "toys" and dolls I'm thinking younger.

Dolls?You mean like baby Yoda?

-1
#1028 2 years ago

Just buy it already and have a ton of fun!

-2
#1069 2 years ago
Quoted from jimwe5t:

Just found out what JJP did…:
[quoted image]

What was your job before you took this one?Jesus talk about on a mission from Gary!

#1164 2 years ago

I think we should give this Jimwest c.s. the boot I think I'd rather have Kaneda here instead of this c.s.

-1
#1222 2 years ago
Quoted from jimwe5t:

I don’t know who you are either, but value your opinion that flippers are mechs, but the most basic of mechs. The whole point of pinball is to see the ball interact with magical mechs. Otherwise, pinball would just become a pretty monotonous game of only ramp/habit trails. Take a good look at DI or POTC to see what I mean. Those games are loaded with ball interactive mechs, which make the games more fun and interesting imo.

Then buy a DI and shut the fuck up!

-1
#1227 2 years ago
Quoted from smokinhos:

I did.. LE for $7100, took the extra $3400 and put toward my AIQ premium.. listening to GnR playing both of them.

So,I was right?

#1249 2 years ago
Quoted from smokinhos:

All the way up to being a DB..

I was kidding but I could see the misinterpretation

#1255 2 years ago
Quoted from jimwe5t:

All good points and review.

Your opinions don’t matter to anyone here and your momma dresses you funny!

-7
#1261 2 years ago
Quoted from Tranquilize:

JJPs rules are always problematic. I begged them directly to fix DI (which is one of the better jjp games), but they just wouldn't do it. Multiballs are just inserted, Bob rules are imbalanced and create drain issues, and modes are insanely imbalanced with all else.
They just aren't good at coding good rulesets. I got Maiden shortly afterward. Man, what a difference!

DI is a great pin and they’ve added layers on to the original code that make it even better. I probaly need to play more Iron Maiden but it seemed pretty stripped down and very easy

-1
#1264 2 years ago

Just my opinion I thought the artwork was Zombie Yeti good but the music sucks and the playfield was sparse.

#1282 2 years ago
Quoted from screaminr:

No need to apologise , you were right the first time , Jimmy hates this game and wants to tell everybody about it , your response was totally reasonable .
I have nothing against Jimmy and he can say whatever he wants but when you go about it like he does , you have to expect a bit of blow back

So right there’s no need to apologize.We have groups of people who run their mouth spewing whatever they want and the majority is told to be quiet and tolerate it!Not just Pinside.

1 week later
#1286 2 years ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

I've decided to proceed with my LE order (should ship Friday) after recent reports of playfield issues on the latest builds have dwindled. It seems like the latest post / washer combination has been working out well. If it wasn't for my wife wanting the game so much and being in at the original price point I'm not sure if I would be proceeding at this time. I'll report my unboxing findings here.

All I got to say is Rock On brother

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#1301 2 years ago

I hope it’s true that JJP is getting a new playfield vendor!

-1
#1303 2 years ago
Quoted from zr11990:

And who would that be?

Hell man I don’t know ask the Vid dude he started the speculation!

#1306 2 years ago
Quoted from underlord:

Lol exactly as much as they do now. That’s the issue.

So many smart people here,maybe we should start a pinball manufacturing company.I’ve heard is easy.

1 week later
#1433 2 years ago
Quoted from Phbooms:

All games get old fast for me if im not absolutely in love with the code and layout.

Sold both AIQ and GnR pretty quickly myself. One because of code other because of guess what...code. Neither clicked code wise. I dont think its a fair comparison between the two though market wise since Stern probably made as many AIQs in 1 week as JJP has made total of GnR.

I’m pretty sure Stern doesn’t make 1675 pins in a week.I get what your trying to say though.

#1439 2 years ago
Quoted from thechakapakuni:

What is happening next week?

What about next week?

-1
#1441 2 years ago
Quoted from Phbooms:

I think its in relation to koss and how he is going to handle his GnR with JJP

I was foolishly hoping JJP was making a statement concerning replacement playfields. And then announce their new playfield supplier starting immediately

#1472 2 years ago
Quoted from Kkoss24:

People had good taste for sure .It’s more fun when it buys a pin but I got a serious bill to finish up with the ortho .He owns my ass until next summer the earliest .

I remodeled kitchen and baths my whole life and I have two bad rotator cuffs a tore bicep tendon and need cortisone shots in knees once sometimes twice a year.But man I loved being self employed and challenged to do my best work on every job.I was lucky my wife being a nurse has great insurance by today's standards!

#1484 2 years ago
Quoted from jimwe5t:

Exactly, JJP keeps telling us at each launch over the years it’s fixed. Will not believe any fix statement from them till there is no artwork under posts, no thick clear, no wobbly mounted posts, etc. None of my other companies machines have any problems.

Even Jack doesn’t care if you buy one!
What I want you to do now is go buy every new Stern made in the last 10 years and just keep playing and playing and playing…………………………..

#1487 2 years ago
Quoted from jimwe5t:

Of course Jack doesn’t care (he’s a non-factor now), he no longer owns the company and didn’t move with the operation, but the new owners Abbot’s, care about every customer.

The Abbot's have plenty of customers,but you need to focus on playing all of those super cool Stern's your buying!

#1489 2 years ago
Quoted from jimwe5t:

Thanks for your concern my friend Romey and invitation. I’ve been doing just that with all my Stern’s and hope to with TS coming up, if after at least a good year of evidence PF issues are solved.

How about you get back to us in a year or two?

#1494 2 years ago
Quoted from John_I:

Maybe Vid left them out because warped playfields are very few and far between compared to what we're talking about here and when there are serious issues, Stern stands behind their games and provides replacement Playfields at no charge?

I don’t know if they’ve always been that quick to back up their product?
I’ve read a lot post over the years on a slew of playfield issues board issues and a shit ton of build issues.
But what the hell where here to bash JJP!

#1498 2 years ago
Quoted from Phbooms:

With Stern usually it is a stock issue. Ive had parts show up out of the blue many months after asking for them and they say something along the lines of restocked item covered under warranty on the invoices even on games i bought used and they have never made me pay for any parts ever.

I’ve called Frank or Steve at JJP on a Thursday and had the parts to repair DI on Tuesday the following week.
And JJP sent out playfields in the past too.I hope they have a new playfield vendor and we’re at the end of this bullshit

-1
#1502 2 years ago
Quoted from mostater:

I know someone mentioned a new pf vendor, but does anyone know if this is true or just wishful thinking?

At this juncture it’s just us hoping,but I have a feeling something will be announced soon!
This last game was so good and so much work put into it I can’t imagine they won’t avoid this with the Toy Story.I can’t wait to hear the child game trolling from the Stern trolls!

#1507 2 years ago
Quoted from jimwe5t:

Nice collection of High end, all nice looking machines. Wanted GNR CE, but was too late to the party.

Which one do you have?

#1509 2 years ago
Quoted from jimwe5t:

Don’t want to give a list of all my machines or would have done that in the profile. It’s not relevant.

Later Gary

#1521 2 years ago
Quoted from screaminr:

I've owned or had a deposit on all the jjp pins , except for Dialled In and Wonka , so I never paid attention to those .
Jjp might think they're saving a few bucks by ignoring people , because they are so busy and can't keep up with the demand for Guns N Roses but I think it'll come back to bite them when future titles aren't so popular and lots of people have been put off by hearing about their poor service .

They should immediately develop a protocol for playfields that are bad enough to deem a replacement.Then demand Mirco Oh crap Nevermind

#1525 2 years ago
Quoted from yancy:

Correct. You can talk about something without owning it. Believe it or not, for the majority of pinball history there was near-zero private ownership. People just played them. Insanity.
I've never owned a JJP game, at this rate never will, but I've played them all plenty and have, like, opinions.

Everyone is welcome to their opinions!I think he was directing his comment at jimwe5tC.S

#1527 2 years ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

Yeah we all got that

I guess it just opened up the whole worn out argument we all love to fall back on

#1534 2 years ago
Quoted from jimwe5t:

You deaf dumb and nearsighted JJP cheerleaders keep telling yourselves this crap about Stern, but it is also my experience they stand behind all their PFs. You’re kidding yourselves to think they don’t. If you have a warped PF they will replace it. On the other hand, my direct experience with JJP has been the opposite and they refused to take care of issues.
Keep trying to put Stern in the same miserable camp as JJP. Sorry it’s not working for those of us that know the truth. That doesn’t make me Stern’s cheerleader either, because I’ll get all over them for anything they don’t do right, unlike you JJP lackeys. The huge difference is, they stand behind their product and don’t try to flea their responsibilities like the small boutique JJP constantly does. I’m still hoping JJP will put some big boy pants on and do the right thing for Kloss and all those affected by the outrageously bad quality product known as GNR. Look no further than the tons of photos all over the net to know the truth about GNR.

Now,what was your direct experience with JJP?

#1539 2 years ago
Quoted from jimwe5t:

Too long to write.

Of course?

2 weeks later
-4
#1668 2 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

Yep, just the final straw. Guess I needed something to push me one way or the other, and this did it for me.
Good luck with yours Panzer. Definitely is an amazing looking and fun playing pin. Too bad the quality and customer support

Well maybe for the new runs he using indeed a thinner coat to hope the pooling issue goes away, but then you get another problem. Here is a picture from my own replacement CE playfield for a wonka with a verry thin clear coat made this year. Now the speckles are almost coming thru the clearcoat. So now is the question , what do you want more or less clear.... it sucks both ways
As you can see in the light reflection it looks pretty bad. This has NOTHING to do with JJP (maybe there QC is a bit shit at the moment) but this is mirco 99% there fault
I’m not liking JJP at the moment and there statement against the world but they really need to tell mirco te step up his game and do things like he did on hobbit etc as those playfields are much better
I’m a big JJP fan and I really like there games but this has got to stop!
[quoted image][quoted image]

Do you have any pictures that weren’t shot thru a soccer goal net?Thats too bad Wonka is a great game.

#1670 2 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

Not sure if you were trying to quote me or someone else??

Actually I was trying to quote the gentleman from Amsterdam with the Wonka CE

#1679 2 years ago
Quoted from AMSNL:

Playfield is pretty good so far, no chipping but it does have some small pooling issue in some area near the forest and on 1 sling. Got some rubber washers now and been playing for 20 games or so. Hope it does not chip

Dude that sucks that your having playfield issues.I wish they would just get this shit rectified already!

#1737 2 years ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

Think Romulex & Panzer had to bring him out of retirement.

Palmer Law Mr & Mr Negative on every JJP thread!And Stern kiss ass on Stern threads

1 month later
#1973 2 years ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

I've been considering a Wonka LE from what is likely the final run. However, with it being a small run there's likely no chance of washer and post combinations to be tested over months as with GNR. JJP has one chance to get this final Wonka run right and if there's other sling posts or others not in the pictures above having issues there's no additional run to improve upon it.

I can tell you I have a Wonka built Oct 2019 and it’s still perfect!

#1986 2 years ago
Quoted from pacman11:

Anyone know what JJP next game will be? GNR is badass..

Toy Story is what we've assumed is coming next.A Pat Lawlor design with his team.

-2
#1995 2 years ago
Quoted from JodyG:

JJP can't fire Mirco...Mirco is invested into JJP and I would assume has a minority ownership stake. Hence the smoke show from Jack. Jack made a deal with the devil to save his company, and those birds have come home to roost.

Thank you Reverend Wright?

-1
#1996 2 years ago
Quoted from jimwe5t:

Lawlor’s team consists of me, myself and I and reportedly TS is still not ready to go. He took several years on the problematic Dialed In. TS is no different. Heard he is finally going to hang it up after all this time. His games are like an old song writer that doesn’t have it any longer and his subpar efforts at JJP have been lackluster sales wise. He knew how to do some good games at one time, but that was long ago. Great fit for JJP! Lol

Thank you C.S

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#2002 2 years ago
Quoted from jimwe5t:

Unbelievable that anyone in their right mind would consider paying for a faulty product that would and should be covered under any other companies warranty. If Stern tried this terrible policy, everyone would be up in arms and call for a boycott. Yet the JJP apologist, just roll over and take it. Is any pinball machine made by anyone worth groveling before a manufacturer, because you so badly want their pinball fix??? Pathetic people, if that’s the case.

Refer to post 1996 ^^^^^^

-1
#2017 2 years ago
Quoted from Jaybird815:

Splitting hairs there, the point being is you can now buy a used one cheaper than new.

In that case I’ll take two!

#2029 2 years ago
Quoted from jimwe5t:

Complete denial and name calling doesn’t evade the facts. The list is huge of failed drones, bob’s arcade under station pop up stops working. Quantum theater mech issues galore. Phone LEDs & screen stop working. Bob the builder trapping ball behind mech issues and stops going back and forth. Betty’s diverter arm stops working properly. The list goes on and on. You were lucky with little issues.

Go away C.S

#2055 2 years ago
Quoted from pcprogrammer:

This thread has me worried for my incoming Wonka. Snagged one from the new run. How many Wonka owners are not experiencing issues?

Here’s the expert that responded

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#2063 2 years ago
Quoted from jimwe5t:

Most of those childish undeserved downvotes are by you Rumy ol pal. Honest opinions shared with JJP fanboys are sometimes not well received. So instead of respecting others views they down vote. What you don’t like my view that Kiddie Wonka is a kiddie candy theme? Well it’s true and even the makers of the movie don’t deny that, so why do you, Rummy? (Hey men come over tonight, we’ll have a beer and play some kiddie Wonka or soon to be another child’s theme, kiddie TS. Lol)

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#2065 2 years ago
Quoted from Tranquilize:

Jim worst and Romulick should get a room. They could make little troll babies together.

I got your Romulick hanging low when you want it let me know.

#2067 2 years ago
Quoted from underlord:

Is it still in the box?

Haha no unboxed the day it arrived and played liked a mfer.I’ll take some pics for you

#2078 2 years ago
Quoted from Wildbill327:

I’ve owned my WW for a little while and it needed a few tweaks but no more then other pin manufacturers…crazy talk
//<![CDATA[
window.__mirage2 = {petok:"52129466f464fc083333e192acd8b34aaa2e01d3-1633216806-1800"};
//]]>

Crazy talk and jimwets go hand and hand

-1
#2130 2 years ago
Quoted from Vespula:

.. But are there really "new playfields" or is jjp just implementing steps in assembly to mitigate the issues the playfields had, and possibly still currently have? And we as a forum are also getting better at knowing what spots to look for and being proactive on how to fix / prevent the known issues. It's a collective effort.
Has anything changed at mirco since day 1? I don't think we know.
Happy 1 year birthday to GNR, tomorrow!
A masterpiece game. (imo)

If I owned JJP Pinball I would be shoving the bad playfields up the Mirco owners ass sideways for the shit they put me thru

#2186 2 years ago
Quoted from jimwe5t:

Calling people names giving their opinions like “troll” is the favorite low on Pinside. Not going to call you the same, but glad we agree on the very poor treatment from JJP. We’re all in this together, so divisive name calling only plays into the hands of a low life company like JJP.

I wandered over to the Stern Godzilla thread for a couple of minutes and you were calling anybody who questioned the artwork trolls.Oh Jimwet here likes to come here and act like he cares and looking out for the buyers but believe me he’s just trolling.Check out some of his comments when somebody says anything negative about Stern.He literally freaks out!

#2190 2 years ago
Quoted from Mike_J:

Both of you are on competing payrolls.

Ok but I speak truth

#2200 2 years ago
Quoted from Tranquilize:

I can't believe there's still a debate.
- Bad playfields, check.
-Altering warranty so it's useless, check.
- Greedily screwing over distros with #s, check.
- Blaming the customer, check.
- Raising prices on a flawed product mid-production, check.
- Ghosting customers in need of support, check.
- Avoiding recognition of issues for years, check.
Pinsiders: "Uh, hey guys, do you think the new run is okay?"

//<![CDATA[
window.__mirage2 = {petok:"c59fa79d4b9a11cc68fe03076352acbc2e0eebfe-1633888177-1800"};
//]]>

Hope so

1 week later
#2301 2 years ago
Quoted from bobukcat:

I'd suggest we stop with the COVID analogies for many reasons but especially if you don't want the thread locked for straying into prohibited topics. Then again we're all just kind of going around in circles and beating dead horses since nothing major appears to have changed so maybe locking it wouldn't be the worst idea after all.

Drop it like it's hot!

#2306 2 years ago
Quoted from John_I:

So you are willing to try it without the washers under the posts and let us know how it looks after a few hundred games?

Man let it go the dude’s happy with his game.Jeez you guys never stop!

#2313 2 years ago
Quoted from Rum-Z:

Just a thought: What if all (or most of) the GNR playfields were made at the beginning of the production process, and the longer you go into the production process, the longer those playfields have to sit around, out-gas and cure, and potentially firm up and harden. If that is the case, buyers of later run GNRs may have the benefit of getting a more durable playfield. Maybe that's what is being seen if this is the case.

Problem solved!Thank you very much.

#2346 2 years ago
Quoted from EricHadley:

I waxed my GnR playfield today. It’s so beautiful. Prefect.

Good luck brother!I hope your playfield stays fucking perfect!

#2353 2 years ago
Quoted from Bundy:

Why is this so hard for people to get right? His name is Mirco. Given all the talk about his playfields one would assume his name was known by now

Is this Lars Micro my old hockey league buddy?

#2355 2 years ago
Quoted from MrBally:

Many confuse Mirco with the former Table Soccer/Foosball manufacturer.

That explains it Nevermind

1 week later
#2367 2 years ago
Quoted from BMore-Pinball:

It may seem like it is, but I would argue they are not

Wow man are you a politician?

#2393 2 years ago
Quoted from bossk4hire:

Any one have issues with The Hobbit and pooling?

Not that I’ve heard of on Pinside.
It started with Pirates

#2399 2 years ago
Quoted from Vespula:

He "could" and it was a fair question until your apparently pointed comment... Crickets for you.

No shit some are on a search and destroy JJP mission!

#2407 2 years ago
Quoted from jeffro01:

I'm almost certain you've said which orientation before but I'm lazy and searching is hard... Slot up or down?
Jeff

Slot down is what I did and it never hangs up

1 week later
#2447 2 years ago
Quoted from Tranquilize:

Pooling, giving distros the shaft for a cash grab, raising prices after release, blaming the customer, ignoring the issue, continued issues after THREE releases... The list goes on. I was their biggest cheerleader. Just look at my review of dialed in. Not anymore. I don't gamble.

Dialed In is still a great game and none of them had pooling!And the sound was better for some reason?

#2455 2 years ago
Quoted from Ashram56:

Well for that matter maybe remove the speaker, the grill, and mount a wooden fixture in front with the speaker oriented toward the player ?

I hope Eric and the other engineers are revisiting this?

3 months later
#2516 2 years ago
Quoted from jfh:

Not me. I was in on a CE. Cancelled my spot because of JJPs actions/inactions and I *really* wanted Toy Story. Will no longer consider buying a JJP game unless things change.

I got yours on layaway

#2520 2 years ago

Does it make you feel better wishing failure for a company that others count on for their lively hood?

#2524 2 years ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

There's been a number of people on Pinside that have hated JJP from the start. I don't understand it other then some deep seated resentment that a pinball company came out of no where and started producing games with twice as many features, mechs, and code then Stern. That rubbed some people the wrong way and still does to this day.
With that being said JJP hasn't handled GNR playfield issues well. The owners with severe chipping and pooling deserved at least a free playfield. Personally its taught me to never buy another JJP game unless its at least 6 months post release. Same goes for Stern, there's too many issues with early build games to warrant a purchase at these insane prices IMO. However, Stern at least appears to have resolved their playfield issues by removing artwork around all posts, something JJP still refuses to do which seems odd.

Totally agree with your assessment.
It’s the people that go from JJP thread to thread and bash like they have Stern stock.We all get it by now

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