I'm really tired of this one but after playfield issues plaguing Pirates, then early's Wonka's, and now early GNR's (and at least 1 recent April 2021 build) I can't help but to ask why is JJP still making games with faulty playfields? Why is JJP not holding the playfield manufacturer accountable for these issues if it's on them or not allowing playfields enough time to cure? Why after 3 games with this issue has JJP not changed playfield manufactures? This issue is negatively impacting otherwise great games and I don't understand why JJP has tolerated it. I'm sure JJP has said things internally and to the playfield manufacturer about this issue but they are still tolerating it by not permanently fixing the issue (washers don't count either).

JJP offered some of the best quality playfields in pinball with Hobbit. Something had to have changed between Dialed In and Pirates. Some early Dialed In's had chipping but that seemed related to no protection from the factory at scoops for early builds, no pooling occurred. Since Pirates though JJP has been selling games that almost at random or in batches have pooling and or chipping around posts. For $8k - $12k+ buyers should not have to play the playfield quality lottery. To make matters worse JJP is no longer sending replacement playfields for affected games. Just recently I've seen reports of two $12,500 GNR CE's with December builds having chipping / pooling. The resolution from JJP was to send washers...

Finally, if this problem cannot be resolved due to digital print technology issues and or clear coat materials why doesn't JJP at least remove artwork around sling posts like Stern did to solve the issue? JJP actually did just that with many areas on WOZ and Hobbit. Do something at least! Shipping games with washers is a band aid and only proves that the issue still exists.

One last thing, I have have a GNR LE on order that should be shipped next month. I'm hoping I win the playfield lottery and have a great game. However, as I mentioned above at least one owner with an April build (with washers installed at the factory) had pooling / chipping in at least one playfield area towards the back of the game...

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Good point. I'm waiting at least 6 months before buying any new JJP game as all now appear to have early playfield issues. I was thinking of doing the same thing with Stern but they have solved the issue by removing artwork around all posts.

However, it's now been 6+ months since GNR was announced and there's at least 1 report of pooling / chipping at a rear game post in an April 2021 build (when JJP is now shipping games with washers). It truly looks awful and I would be beyond pissed if it happened on my game considering these insane prices.

Its a manufacturer defect with artwork literally lifting off the playfield. For $8k - $12k + buyers shouldn't have to be applying "fixes" that often look bad. Large washers all over the place look terrible.

I can't 100% confirm this but I think there's been zero reports of pooling / chipping at any post in Stern pins where the artwork has been removed. Stern had the same issue with early Jurassic Park's, they then removed artwork around all posts for later runs and the issue was solved. Stern has since removed artwork around posts on all of their games going forward.

Many here have speculated that the cause of pooling / chipping issue is the new digital playfield artwork print process and that the pressure from posts can result in it occurring. Stern got around this by removing artwork surrounding all posts, no ugly washer band aids needed.

Yesh, sadly as far as "continued" playfield issues go it's now just JJP. Stern thankfully actually did something other then washers to correct the issue. Removing artwork around all sling posts fixed the issue for Stern. Why JJP doesn't do the same thing is beyond annoying.

Good point about guide rails digging into playfields on Stern games, have seen that.

I still think there are a number of items where JJP exceeds Stern's quality standards but this playfield issue is destroying that reputation. It's probably the worst quality issue a pinball machine can have, 2nd I would say is a cracked cabinet, 3rd is decal issues. JJP cannot honestly market themselves as making the highest quality pinball machines with this issue popping up in their last 3 titles and then what seems like almost randomly throughout runs.

This issue should have been corrected with Pirates and then been done with. The fact that it still hasn't been fixed after Wonka and now GNR is embarrassing. The washer "fix" is basically a message to customers of "We know there's an issue and don't care".

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Wow no way! So much customer frustration could have been avoided had JJP just stuck with that original choice.

One would think JJP would surely have made the no artwork switch with Wonka after Pirates but nope! Surely surely JJP would have made the no artwork switch after Pirates and Wonka but nope...Unbelievable.

That is amazing to hear! Glad everything worked out. If you don't mind me asking what is your games build date?

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I still say Dialed In is one of the best pinball machines ever made. The game is insanely loaded with mechs, probably 2-3x as many that Stern puts in their typical game, more then GNR and Wonka, and nearly all interact with the ball. Trap door, moving target, moving mechanic, 5 magnets, cell phone LCD toy, 3 mini drones, a real kick back, the Quantum Theater. Just damn, love it and its an incredible shooter with great custom assets to boot. Collecting SIM cards is one of my favorite mode features as gives you a reason to not only beat a mode but to collect something after that then impacts the rest of the game as well as leads to additional modes being unlocked. Overall Dialed In feels like Pat Lawlor took elements of some of his best games and made it into one.

Sorry for the rant there lol. I understand people not liking the game, or GNR for that matter. Thankfully we have a ton of title choices now and actually have enough new games to complain about haha. There's never been a better time for pinball!

Lol. Try changing the upper flipper power to 14, that changed how often I can hit the SIM card shot in a big way. Still challenging but not the impossible feeling as it felt like at default settings (can still make side ramp shot without issue).

Yet another $12,500 GNR CE being reported as having playfield issues...How much longer will JJP continue to ship games with known defective playfields?

It's sad to see customers using irons, hair dryers, and 3/4" clear washers to "correct" these issues. Customers buying an $8k - $12.5k pinball machine of all things shouldn't have to deal with playfield issues.

JJP is supposed to be a company driven by passion over profit but that passion, the loaded games, great code, etc doesn't mean anything if these issues keep occurring.

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Another CE with issues, posted on JJP Facebook fan group. Have also read multiple reports on here of customers with 4/21 build dates having pooling / chipping. Factory washers appear to be installed but issue remains.

I'm just about ready to cancel my LE order ($9500 price point too) and buy a Mandalorian premium instead.

CE from JJP facebook group

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This one is from an LE, posted here, with a 4/21 build date.

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That I don't know but seeing this issue on 4/21 build date games is making me nervous as that's just a month from today. I've seen or read nothing about JJP having resolved this issue. Combine that with these issues not be covered under warranty (just washers being sent...) and yeah I'm not feeling like it's worth the risk to buy.

Lol from Kaneda

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It's bizarre from a business perspective to let your companies extremely well designed, and well coded game sink because of playfield issues of all things. To have this issue still exist after it occurred first in Pirates and then Wonka is EMBARRASSING.

JJP...lol

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I appreciate Kaneda bringing more awareness about this issue. Staying quiet and hoping JJP does something (other then washer kits...) isn't going to accomplish anything. This issue appears to be widespread affecting dozens of games, not every game, but many. I think there's also a lot of owners that have seen this issue, yet won't say anything (can't blame them), out of fear if they did it will negatively impact their games resale value.

This issue affects the most major / fundamental component of a pinball machine, the playfield. This issue should have resolved after Pirates and it's now embarrassing to see it still occurring.

Over the last couple of evenings I spent some time installing a Pinwoofer kit and art blades on my new TMNT Premium. It was nice not having to worry about playfield issues and just enjoy the game I bought. This is how this hobby should be when paying these crazy asking prices.

The last thing we should have to deal with as customers is playfield issues. In my opinion the playfield, and cabinet are 2 fundamental components of a pinball machine that should be a given to be done right. If there's a mech / hardware issue here or there ok, stuff happens. However, the playfield and cabinet should be the last thing a customer ever has to worry about.

The Diamond Plate playfield process now seems like making Valyrian steel swords from Game of Thrones, a process long forgotten and no longer possible to be recreated lol.

A few weeks back I thought I read that the Diamond Plate clear coat is still being made. If someone had the financial resources now seems like a good time to bring the process back.

Will disagree but hey these are just our opinions. I think JJP games across the board are all very fun and offer a layer of complexity, depth, and detail that games from other companies often lack. To me JJP is Bally Williams 2.0 but this playfield issue is slowly destroying any chance of that continuing.

The last thing I want to see is JJP go away. It's beyond disappointing to see 0 communication from JJP on this issue and the way affected GNR customers have been treated with washer kits. JJP needed to say something yesterday about this issue. I continue to enjoy my JJP games but won't buy another as long as these types of playfield quality issues exist.

The only way I think JJP can resolve this issue at this point is by finding a new playfield manufacturer (or make bring the process in house) and then offer every customer with chipped playfields a free new updated playfield.

I only want to buy a GNR LE if and when JJP starts shipping games without washers installed all over the place. That's the indicator that this issue has finally been resolved. Washers installed all over are not only ugly but also represent admittance that games are being shipped with faulty playfields.

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Owner reports from the latest run games are so far so good, will see what happens after 100+ plays. Still, seeing washers installed all over is concerning. If playfield issues are resolved there shouldn't be a need to install washers all over.

Damn, well there goes that theory that the issue has been resolved with the latest build games.

When I see washers being installed all over the place on these games this quote from Rick Grimes comes to mind...

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From a GNR picture JJP posted today on their Facebook page...

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Enhance! haha.

It's one of the main posts on the upper playfield that has seen a lot of pooling / chipping issues.

Have a chance to get a GNR LE in July with one of the latest build dates. So far it seems like May build date games are having far less playfield issues versus the April and prior ones. I would still prefer a game where the manufacturer is confident all issues are resolved and as a result the abundance of washers removed.

It also seems like JJP may be trying different washers and posts with latest builds?

This picture was posted a couple days ago by a May build owner, it's the post near the pops that has been chipping / pooling on nearly every build. Prior to May builds it seems that JJP was using a shorter screw in style post as seen in the video below. The author of the video claims that the post barely threads into the t-nut and due to being hit often moved to cause chipping / pooling. In the May build picture there's now a longer post going through the t-nut and there's also a nut applied.

The May build owner also reported that the updated post / nut is being used on the upper playfield post that has been chipping / pooling on nearly every build.

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Lol I know. Good points. I'm now considering buying as reports of pooling / chipping with the latest build games have dropped significantly. There seems to be 3 main posts in the game that contributed heavily to chipping, each originally just barely screwed into a t-nut without a nylon nut on the back and no washer underneath the post on top. You could unscrew those posts with your hand...what a dumb design choice for posts that get hit by the ball often.

JJP has now "corrected" the issue by putting in longer posts wish a washer on top and nylon lock nut on the back. I still say "corrected" as these games shouldn't need those larger washers on top if manufacturer is confident that the playfield won't pool / chip without them. It would be nice if JJP just removed a bit more artwork around all posts, as Stern did, and ditched all of the ugly washers. It's disappointing that customers have to play the wait and see game for when these measures are resolved (same has happened with Stern in the past) but that's where we are at.

Here's what we know from an owner (thanks sevenrites for the posting the pictures in the GNR owners thread) that just received one of the latest builds with a May 21st playfield. Black plastic washers are now being installed on at least 5 posts. There's the one on the upper playfield, two near the pops, and two by the outlanes. These are the potential problem posts on the game and where we've seen pooling / chipping. I assume JJP is also using a longer post that goes through the t-nut with a nylon nut in these areas (as we've seen reported by other owners) versus the original post design that barely screwed into the t-nut with no nut.

When asked about the black washers.

"Just on the 3 posts w/ the biggest potential for problems - upper playfield and by AXL and I also noticed them by the outlanes."

Personally I think this washer look is ugly and that simply removing more artwork around all posts (as Stern did to resolve the issue) is a better solution.

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Just observations from here and the JJP Pinball Fans Facebook group, reports of playfield issues on recent builds have dropped heavily. However, there was just a report of pooling from a May build owner in the GNR owners thread...This is on a game with the longer posts, nylon nuts, and black washers on the problem posts. The owner reported that one post with a black washer still had some pooling and that he used an iron to get it back to normal. The owner also reported that the clear is very soft.

It's report like these that makes me want to cancel my order, even with being at the $9500 price point. Using washers and irons on a $10k+ game...ugh. It seems like JJP may know that the playfields have issues and are just doing whatever they can do prevent pooling / chipping. As a customer it would be nice to buy a game with the playfield issues resolved and no large washers installed all over the place.

They are not only ugly but are also a reminder that any playfield with them could have an issue.

Sounds like a good plan. That's ideally what I would want as well, a GNR LE made with a corrected playfield that doesn't have giant washers installed all over the place. If playfield issues are resolved then there should be no need for the abundance of washers.

Resale value with GNR LE's won't be like Pirates due to the large number of them being made. If JJP eventually releases updated playfields with better art adhesion, clear, etc then I would expect those games to maintain their value better and be the more desirable model. It's also possible JJP never updates their playfields and that this is just the new normal.

I don't think the issues are exaggerated, there's now dozens of reports of pooling / chipping. Latest builds are less affected due to the longer posts + nylon nut + black plastic washer on the problem area posts. There were hundreds of games made prior to those changes, I would say there's been around 50 cases of documented pooling / chipping with early builds (April and before) posted between here and the Facebook JJP Pinball Fans group. How many owners have affected playfields but either won't post anything about it or simply don't know? Probably a hell of a lot more then 50.

I hope your GNR hopes up much better then Wonka, there's no excuse for pooling / chipping on a modern pin, not when games made 20+ years ago with thousands of plays don't exhibit the same issue. Hell, a cousin of mine has a LOTR he's owned since new with 6,000+ plays...no playfield issues.

As customers paying these insane prices we should have higher expectations for build quality.

I don't think you ever understood the rules, there's plenty of goals. Also ,each song is it's own mode with it's own set of shots to hit, the shots also change as you progress through the song.

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I've decided to proceed with my LE order (should ship Friday) after recent reports of playfield issues on the latest builds have dwindled. It seems like the latest post / washer combination has been working out well. If it wasn't for my wife wanting the game so much and being in at the original price point I'm not sure if I would be proceeding at this time. I'll report my unboxing findings here.

I've been closely watching the playfield threads and the Facebook JJP Fans Group for posts about issues with the most recent builds. There's been none from what I've seen, the combination of the longer posts + black plastic washers + nylon nuts seems to have corrected the issue. There's also been multiple owners with over 200 plays on games with the latest fixes posting that their playfields are still fine. Some owners are also reporting that the clearcoat is improved on the latest builds that just sounds like speculation.

What still doesn't sit right with me and never will is the way JJP has treated existing customers with chipping / pooling. Those customers should at the very least receive a new replacement playfield.

Is that confirmed or a rumor / guess at this time?

I need to take a few Motrin after reading that one as my head now hurts. It's not even worth the effort debating with you, it's pointless.

How many times have you said JJP is going out of business? I can't recall, lost count!

Only fresh takes allowed!

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Oh I know what you were doing, it's not the same thing either. You've been directing snide comments at me for years, I'm used to it! Don't say anything critical about Stern, don't dare question what you get from Stern for $6k -9k+...got it lol. Criticism doesn't automatically mean a game is bad or sucks. At these insane prices criticism, whether about features and or build quality, regardless of the manufacture is normal.

I'm proud to say I've bought a NIB Stern (Turtles premium) and as of today a NIB JJP (GNR LE) within the past 2 months. People can enjoy games from both companies without having to take sides and insult the other

Stern and JJP are both kicking ass right now and it's a great time for pinball.

Now here we go with the "JJP is so small" and "JJP is tiny" troll comments. It's nonsense you spew, it isn't even constructive criticism but rather a mess of words.

Seems like you have some things mixed up then! I've been buying Sterns for years and don't recall ever just making some generalized statement that all of their games suck. Again, criticism doesn't mean something sucks or is terrible. You can be critical and still enjoy something. Hell, this thread is critical about JJP.

Seems like a lot of LE's are being delivered to customers in the US this week. This latest combination of black washers + longer posts + nylon nuts since late May builds seems to have stopped pooling / chipping on games. Have read a few reports now of owners with 200+ plays on latest builds with no issues. Some customers are saying that the clear coat itself seems harder on the latest builds but that is just speculation.

Good point. That also makes me wonder if something has changed with the playfield art / clear process in recent games with the heavy drop off in playfield issue reports. With April and prior builds there were reports of issues coming left and right on here and the JJP Facebook Fan Group, now it's pretty much 0.

Great to hear! Yeah only seems to be a portion of games affected, not sure how many but definitely not all.

I won't be seeing the comments in question again, sorry those derailed the thread for a bit.

Lol. Thanks RobT I appreciate it.

Sorry to see that has happened to your game. It's complete BS that is even occurring. JJP should give every affected owner a brand new playfield. It doesn't matter if a majority of them won't be put into games or sold, it's what should be done to make things somewhat right. I would reach out to your distributor asap about the issue, see if you can swap it for a new game with it being only 90 days old.

If I may ask what is your games build date?

One last suggestion. I would ask your distributor if him and or JJP would do a swap of your game for a newer built considering it's only 90 days old. That's the least JJP can do if they are not going to send a replacement playfield.

Here's a viewpoint that a member of a pinball league I'm in had on this issue. He said if he just paid $9500 - $12,500 for one of these games and if the manufacture did basically nothing that he would drive the game to their factory and ask for his money back or a new game. Once there he said he would record the whole interaction.

He had another good point being that it can be easy to get a customer initially hooked on your product. Get them in the door and buy the first one, treat them right and they will keep buying more. However, if you treat them poorly (as in sending out washers as a "fix" versus sending a replacement playfield) you will likely lose that customer forever.

I can understand if there's some very very minor pooling near 1 or 2 posts but not severe chipping where the artwork is literally falling off. These products are being marketed as the ultimate pinball machines made with the best quality. Well that whole idea is thrown out the window if the playfields, the most fundamental item on a pinball machine, has major issues. Offering washers is not a solution but rather an insult at these insane prices. A brand new unpopulated playfield should be offered on games that clearly have an issue.

I never understood the whole "Stern makes more games" knock against JJP. Who cares, that doesn't automatically mean they make better products. I suppose Ford makes better products then Ferrari as they crank out more vehicles per year lol.

I would prefer 1 JJP game per year that is loaded with over the top theme integration, toys, features, mechs, and the deep objective based rulesets with some of the best mode choreography in pinball versus 4 - 6 games where maybe 1 or 2 are good.

Just got the game fully unboxed and on its legs. The build date just says 7/21 on the cabinet, no exact build date by the day (first JJP game I've seen like this). I don't see a build date stamp anywhere on the front of the playfield. Maybe the latest build playfields are no longer stamped? Havent played a ball yet on the game, more stuff to do (mods lol).

The playfield looks gorgeous and I hope it stays that way. I see 9 posts so far with black washers. 5 are near the bottom of the playfield, one near the upper area of the shooter lane, 2 near the pops, and 1 on the upper playfield.

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Still don't see it anywhere on the sides, weird.

Lol, it's only to look at!

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I don't blame ya, what Jack said was flat out wrong. Blaming customers for playfield issues is not only bizarre but insulting towards customers.

Thanks. So far so good. The packaging of the game, overall build quality, and playability of the game have been excellent. Opening the game and setting it up felt like I was unboxing a premium product. I've had to make a couple tweaks to mechs but very minor. Now of course the big question is how the playfield will hold up. It's a July 2021 build with all of the latest tweaks / fixes. Reports of playfield issues have really dropped off, almost to 0 it seems, since late May and going forward.

I think it helps to have a great distributor that will back you up if issues arise. I ordered from Gary at Abel Electronics and would recommend him to anyone looking to buy a JJP pin.

Everyone should keep in mind that zaphX has already put thousands of plays on his GNR which is awesome. He's probably already gotten more value out of the game then a vast majority of other owners due to how much he plays and enjoys it.

The playfield situation sucks but at least there's a partial solution. Personally I think JJP should evaluate each customer case individually and if the damage is bad enough (severe chipping) then a playfield should be given for free.

Widespread reports of playfield issues appear to have stopped for the past couple of months. I think I've seen 1 July build mentioned here with reported pooling (under a rail after it was removed) but nothing in comparison to the dozens of reports coming from previous run builds. Reports of issues have also stopped on the JJP Fans Facebook group, there were a ton of reports of playfield issues being reported earlier in the year. The latest July and going forward builds have a different combination of posts and washers, who knows if the actual playfields are different.

One interesting thing I noticed on my July build LE is that the playfield manufactured date isn't stamped anywhere on the playfield, just a random combination of letters and numbers.

I've been considering a Wonka LE from what is likely the final run. However, with it being a small run there's likely no chance of washer and post combinations to be tested over months as with GNR. JJP has one chance to get this final Wonka run right and if there's other sling posts or others not in the pictures above having issues there's no additional run to improve upon it.

Here's a picture of where JJP is installing the latest post and washer combination on GNR, 11 posts total. These should be implemented on games with late June builds and going forward. If these are already installed on your game no post / washer changes are probably needed, posts about playfield issues on the most recent builds have been non existent on Pinside and the JJP fan Facebook group.

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Those are good points. With the April builds that were affected with pooling and chipping there were numerous complaints being posted on Pinside and the JJP Facebook group within a month or so of the build date. We are no longer seeing that same pattern with the latest builds and now 3+ months have passed since the latest washer / post combination was implemented. Something is working better, hopefully it stays that way.

With no official communication about the issue being fixed there's no way of knowing if the playfields have been updated and or if the latest "fix" is preventing the issue. I wish JJP would remove artwork around all playfield posts as Stern has done. JJP actually did this with WOZ and Hobbit in many if not all post areas. If Toy Story ships with artwork still around the posts with washers then I don't know what to say lol.

Glad your game is good! No issues here either with my July build. Reports of pooling and chipping have pretty much completely stopped on here and and on the JJP Facebook fan group starting with the late June builds and going forward. It's still completely wrong how JJP treated customers with affected playfields, they should have received a free replacement playfield at the very least. I'll continue to wait at least 6 months from the time JJP initially ships the first batch of games for a new title before purchasing as they have now had quality problems with every new release.

In the meantime there are for whatever reason people in this thread almost hoping that every JJP GNR owner has playfield issues which is sad. I think these are the people that will never buy a JJP game, they have already made up their minds and dislike the company.

Lol

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It's holding up grest so far, no issues, hopefully it stays that way. July build with the latest washer / post combo.

That's great to hear, have been heavily considering buying a Wonka from this final run.

Just on a side note, thank you JJP for all of the incredible code work over the years, it's the best in the industry in my opinion. The fact that WOZ is still getting code updates 8 years later is amazing.

After the last batch of fixes starting with June / July 2021 builds it seems that all reports of pooling and chipping stopped. It's been 6+ months since then so something is working. No reports either from the last Wonka batch. That doesn't mean that previous owners with issues were treated right, they were not IMO and deserved at least a free replacement playfield for severe cases ($12,500 CE buyers especially!).

Yup, that does seem to be the pattern. Personally I will not buy a JJP pin built within 6 months of a titles release. Every single JJP title, except for Hobbit, has had playfield issues with some of the earliest builds. The risk was too great at $7k and I'm sure as hell not taking it at $11k. I may actually buy a Wonka LE but only because it's from the last run with all issues resolved. Same goes for Stern games, rather wait 6 months from release and then buy.

It's very very few reports then. Prior to last June there were reports of pooling and chipping being posted daily on here and Facebook, that pattern has since ended. I don't see washers as an actual fix as if issues with playfields were truly resolved there would be no need for them. Whatever latest washer and post combination JJP is using it's working and is simply a preventive measure to stop pooling and chipping before it occurs.

With all of that being said I'll never buy a JJP or Stern made within the first 6 months of release. There's always problems with the first batch of games and at these insane prices the benefit of being one of the first to own a game isn't worth it IMO. Buying a game from a later run or the last batch is usually a safe bet to get a solid NIB pin.

There's been a number of people on Pinside that have hated JJP from the start. I don't understand it other then some deep seated resentment that a pinball company came out of no where and started producing games with twice as many features, mechs, and code then Stern. That rubbed some people the wrong way and still does to this day.

With that being said JJP hasn't handled GNR playfield issues well. The owners with severe chipping and pooling deserved at least a free playfield. Personally its taught me to never buy another JJP game unless its at least 6 months post release. Same goes for Stern, there's too many issues with early build games to warrant a purchase at these insane prices IMO. However, Stern at least appears to have resolved their playfield issues by removing artwork around all posts, something JJP still refuses to do which seems odd.