(Topic ID: 292889)

Why is JJP still making games with faulty playfields?

By PanzerFreak

2 years ago


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Post #1634 Observations & insight on JJP/Mirco playfield pooling issue Posted by AMSNL (2 years ago)

Post #1649 Uncut playfield photos Posted by AMSNL (2 years ago)

Post #1660 Thin clear coat issues Posted by AMSNL (2 years ago)


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-14
#43 2 years ago

I am going to be in the new generation of first time nib jjp pin owners (whenever it finally ships) and accept that I'm definitely part of the problem in some people's minds as I wish mine would hurry up and ship so I can enjoy playing it in between installing mods, learning how to fix the issues (under warranty) and to care for it. I'm jjps perfect customer...a fixit kind of guy. I think I should be rewarded and moved to the front of the line!! (Are you reading this JJP!?!? Hint:Order: 466-SO114303 ) It will be my first pin!!! I accept the task! Eyes wide open! Gnfr!

#63 2 years ago
Quoted from underlord:

Excellent. Your cc spray booth and touchup assortment is on standby? Exciting!!

Your black armor and fire don't scare me, underlord!

2 weeks later
#166 2 years ago

I'm glad to see the publicity, honestly.

#216 2 years ago
Quoted from TheFamilyArcade:

I cannot believe this post got 6 downvotes. This hobby never ceases to disappoint.

Ikr. Vicious group. Any publicity is good publicity these days I guess. Cancel me, I double dog dare ya! It's my love for risk/reward games .

Anyway, What's the down vote record here?
Am I close?

#218 2 years ago

Looks like my down vote scoring ability is about as good as my ability to rack up points on GNR. If only GNR had deeper code, better lights and music, more assets and mechs.....

(How am I doing now??? Better??)

#278 2 years ago

Well then they must have changed things because I put my deposit down with JJP on December 30th and it clearly said non-refundable multiple times in the process.
With that said, there's probably enough people here that would take your spot in line and pay you a few bucks extra cuz that would save them off the new retail price.
Now if you went through a distributor, The deposit policy was between you and the distributor.

-1
#300 2 years ago
Quoted from dts:

I'm with you on this. I played a beautiful LE over the weekend that had no issues. My plan at this point is to wait and pick one up later that has a good playfield, rather than play the playfield lottery, especially as replacements are not offered anymore.

LE with a verifiably good playfield might start commanding closer to CE pricing.... Depending on how much of a unicorn it is, of course.

#328 2 years ago

Someone is about to ask you (@iceman44) the following...

How many plays?
When ordered? And through whom?
Ship date?
Playfield date?
Se/le/CE?

Edit: my bad, looks like you don't even have a GNR, and sold every JJP you ever owned (5) except for 2013 woz?

#352 2 years ago
Quoted from GPS:

Hello Fellas
Would like to share something that may be helpful.
Another pinsider dnapac was working with me to buy his spot if you will fit his gnr LE. I had some questions as did he and so we both emailed Jen at JJP. I never heard back and neither did Doug so he called to day and was told the following (I am paraphrasing). Your 1000 deposit is non-refundable. JJP will not change any of the paperwork associated with the sale so even if I were to buy the game from Doug and have it delivered to me, I would have no warranty as they sold the game to Doug not me. Doug also shared that he talked to another pinball company that purchased a gnr and he advised he was told that it came with a disclaimer for any issues associated with the playfield. Nice.
I was looking forward to finally being able to buy a nib game and I liked the theme. I was even trying hard to not take the negative press so seriously. Jens perceived attitude today as shared with me by dnapac has unfortunately solidified that I think I am going to have to oss on this game and maybe just holdout for another. This is not the way to handle customers JJP. Wait till times get a bit tougher here in the near future and you may be sorry that you did not treat your customers and potential customers a bit better.

What if the original owner moved between deposit and shipping? Just have it shipped to your address but leave it in his name.

#378 2 years ago

They also don't seem to care how much they torque their own nuts.

#409 2 years ago
Quoted from GPS:

And that would be fine, with the exception that I still have no warranty because the game was sold to another individual. So yes that could solve the shipping problem but I still have bought a $10,000 game and have zero warranty because I’m not the quote, original purchaser.

I just don't see how they're going to check your id over the phone. You're just using the original owner's name they're never going to know unless they just happen to know him personally?
But as suggested, you could partner, with him for the extent of the duration of the warranty also..

Quoted from GPS:

And that would be fine, with the exception that I still have no warranty because the game was sold to another individual. So yes that could solve the shipping problem but I still have bought a $10,000 game and have zero warranty because I’m not the quote, original purchaser.

The seller might be able to help you and be your "virtual roommate" for the year -as mentioned - but I seriously dont think they are going to check yal that much. If the address matches and you know the order ID and buyers name, thats prob good enough. Unless they have a personal relationship with the seller, they just wont even know the details and the address will match. Just trying to help.

One year for $1000+tax?

1. The JJP "Bumper to Post" Limited Warranty covers every part in your new Jersey Jack Pinball Machine for a period of 30 days from the date of delivery of the Machine to its original Purchaser.
2. In addition, the JJP Sound Board, I/0 Driver Board, CPU, 0.96" OLED Monitor, 26" LCD Monitor and RGB LED (Light) Boards are covered for a period of one year from the date of delivery of the Machine to its original Purchaser

-2
#462 2 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Oh yeah, the day of reckoning is coming courtesy of higher taxes etc
After the bailouts, stimulus and reckless spending is done.....soon.... 2022 is gonna be an eye opener

Really? Who's gonna stop him? 2022 will be an eye opener, yes, and 2023 .. but the recklessness won't stop and is part of the plan and justifying higher taxes as you said.

#553 2 years ago

+1 now gonna go watch that again this weekend..... great effin movie.

1 week later
#852 2 years ago
Quoted from snakesnsparklers:

Anybody in the market for a second-hand JJP game is going to specifically be looking for this damage and the price of the game will be lower because of it.

Supply and demand decides the price as well as how many concessions potential buyers will accept. Take the current housing market as an example. There isn't any negotiating going on, waiving inspections, multiple offers with cash covering offers over appraisals, etc.
Damage can be a negotiation point... but not in a high demand low supply market which is what JJP has created here ... How long it will last is the $64,000 question. I'm totally expecting another price increase once they have announced their next title, honestly.

#874 2 years ago
Quoted from PinFever:

And i Missed out on my new jacket which sold out and broke the server..
I wanted to Flip it !!!!!! This is the way !!!!!!
https://www.usatoday.com/videos/entertainment/celebrities/2021/06/09/kanye-wests-yeezy-gap-puffer-jacket-sold-out-few-hours/7609992002/
this new culture has ruined shopping / Kanye should make Toilet paper too and we can re live the beginning of Covid where there was a run on TP!!!

Funded by the steady stream of stimulus checks.

2 weeks later
#1066 2 years ago

Thought I had when I saw black washers is I'm gonna swap the PETG clear washers in its place.

#1126 2 years ago

I suspect some of this sloppy flipper talk is the overheating fade issue which is annoying at best and after 30 minutes of play it's noticeable and frustrating. If you haven't played with the tbreeze fans then only the first 30 minutes in a fresh first game are worth talking about. After that the fade does affect negatively.
I also wonder how much the pitch of the game contributed to some opinions here. I could see how both a Lower pitch PLUS flipper fade could feel like slo-mo neo fighting in the matrix... Add in having an adversity to hidden balls, and generally apathy towards guns and roses music or even music pins in general and you've just found yourself in the wrong topic completely... Unless of course the only thing you like better than pinball is pinball bashing.

I have to remind myself this is a derailed playfield topic. Forgot.

Quoted from yancy:

Put on a great show and all is forgiven.

Except for GnR, of course?

#1128 2 years ago
Quoted from yancy:

I seldom play a JJP game for more than 30 minutes so I dunno about fade.

This statement just hit my lol funny bone!

#1158 2 years ago

What's this I hear?? GnR drama in a mando thread spreading here like a cancer to this JJP forum thread!! nooooo! Where's security??
Better go check it out.. Might need reinforcements! Jk

Koombyah.

#1165 2 years ago
Quoted from romulusx:

I think we should give this Jimwest c.s. the boot I think I'd rather have Kaneda here instead of this c.s.

He'll just come back as jimwe6t

#1193 2 years ago
Quoted from cooked71:

When you guys say PETG washers do you mean the silicone ones from Pinball Life?

Key post here might help
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/the-official-jjp-gnr-thread/page/226#post-6338289

#1208 2 years ago
Quoted from zr11990:

That’s all GnR is is one big multiball flailfest with no goals other than to get through all the songs.

I guess that IS one way to play.

#1212 2 years ago

So why is JJP still making games with faulty playfields again?

#1256 2 years ago

A poll might be in order

#1263 2 years ago
Quoted from fosaisu:

A pooling poll?

A poll to prove or disprove the below statement:

Quoted from romulusx:

Your (jimwe5t) opinions don’t matter to anyone here

#1268 2 years ago
Quoted from jimwe5t:

Great idea! Jimwe5t loves polls, no matter the outcome. Only proves doing a poll to begin with makes ol Jimmy, as my friend Icey calls me, relevant. Love to all my fans, especially that neg. Nancy of all nancies, rumulusx!

The poll is to determine, for curiosity's sake, whether there are actually any fans...other than the one in your shitter, of course. We already know you are quite relevant and for many that appears to be the problem. Let the poll begin and I think it would be fittingly poetic if you could arrange that poll yourself? Self serving seems in your wheelhouse so there may be some additional benefit of enjoyment for you during the process. I know you have the time.

#1277 2 years ago
Quoted from NickBuffaloPinball:

Haha, I think it was all bottled up during the pandemic. Need to learn how to re-harness that energy appropriately

Don't know about you, but I break a sweat when I am in GnR song mode...sounds like a good outlet to me.

#1279 2 years ago
Quoted from NickBuffaloPinball:

I think you're onto something! Looking forward to the day I own one.

me too!! Have to go on location right now ... can't wait for the fall (eta on my ship date)!

1 week later
#1299 2 years ago

And who might be potential qualified suppliers?

#1313 2 years ago
Quoted from bobukcat:

... And sure we all make mistakes but if you sell your mistakes to customers, refuse to rectify them, remove the mistake-ridden part from your warranty and continue to make that mistake can it still really be called a mistake?

At that point, I think that's called a business model.

#1338 2 years ago

Different strokes for different folks and love makes the world go 'round.

#1350 2 years ago
Quoted from jimwe5t:

There won’t be any demand for a POTC remake and JJP knows this already and has stated as much. There was only demand, when it became rare. Prior to JJP announcing POTC was done, they sat in boxes everywhere, with no one wanting them. Also no demand for DI, they too have sat in boxes. WOZ, for some crazy reason, still seems to sell at times, even though it is not usually a theme that true pinball players like. “Hey guys, come over tonight and well play some Dorthy and Toto, lol.” Theme is not good for pinball and all the shots are straight up the middle. Hobbit, not going to ever make that again, it also has stayed in distributor inventory so long, distributors have had to discount to get rid of them.

Sure hoping JJP can turn this all around. With all the PF trouble, GNR has seen severely reduced demand. After many discovering it shoots like a dog, that too has taken a toll on GNR. Think its time for JJP to move onto a new vendor for PFs, to save their very bad quality reputation and move onto Pat’s surely good shooting game design of Toy Story (had enough time to work on TS). Would think that might help salvage all JJPs badly damaged PR, at least hoping it will for them. Would hate to see JJP go out of business, after making 5 to 6 troubled machines in a row (four with PF trouble).

So do you have a YouTube channel? If not, I think you should. You would be great at it. Pinside is beneath you.

#1477 2 years ago
Quoted from Bublehead:

No, I'm looking for work... I can swap a playfield and there may be people who are in need of the service... and it makes a statement that I agree with, which is JJP needs to step up their playfield game.

You'll remain gainfully unemployed because it's been stated by JJP they aren't shipping out playfields at this time.

2 weeks later
#1610 2 years ago
Quoted from zr11990:

I resent that. I at least try to help my customers. A used car is a lot different than a new pin.

I think he's rolling with a metaphor using the same well known and accurate stereotype that is true today and you're fighting against this fact in the real world every time someone shows up at your place of business. You are outnumbered by the bad apples by a lot, unfortunately. I think you know it wasn't personal.

#1626 2 years ago
Quoted from Elvishasleft:

I asked Jack... he wanted to know why you would put dirt and dust inside your new game?
Clear wise, just buy a new playfield if you want more clearcoat.
You are welcome.

This is funny. Props.

#1704 2 years ago
Quoted from zaphX:

I was willing and planning to buy a playfield at the full $1100 price, so to me this is a generous offer in compromise.
But you people will never be happy.

Please don't feed the.....

Remember what happened last time? You left, and it was as if millions of voices suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced.

3 weeks later
#1753 2 years ago
Quoted from screaminr:

I totally agree with you that people shouldn't brush aside the issues but I also understand why some people just want to play the game and enjoy it .
I have a game on order and I'm concerned about the Playfield issues , but I will take preventative measures to protect the playfield .

This game is a unicorn .
.

Totally agree. That said, if you don't like GnR music even a little, to me, that's a deal breaker. I played iron maiden on location, I can't play it because of the zero connection or appreciation and basic dislike of the music.....I never listened, liked, or cared about that band or really any of that crowd. Those kids were the ones nerds like me stayed away from, a bit older than me and generally in with the cops and in and out of jail.

So If this pin had been same everything but iron maiden from Jersey Jack I would never have cared a bit. Fortunately, they released this pin from a band I was "into" with appetite and patience and have been to their concerts in that tour also... I feel fortunate to enjoy the music on this pin to solidify the experience.

Just to be fair I'm not picking on iron maiden It was just an example I can give you a list of other bands that would not have mattered to me. I picked that one because it is a popular pin , has a pretty good following just like GnR but it's not my cup I tea.

#1761 2 years ago
Quoted from glpinball:

[quoted image][quoted image]

You haven't fixed that yet?
Can't wait for the after pics...

#1774 2 years ago
Quoted from metallik:

Dude's got a washer the size of a quarter under the post and it's still wrinkling badly. There is no bulletproofing these games.

Honestly, just opinion, But others have commented these black plastic washers are quite hard. Much harder than the PETG washers. Also it has a metal washer on top and it's been recommended to take that off. Third he didn't touch this so it was torqued by JJP. So there's quite a few factors that could have exacerbated the situation.

It'll probably go something like this, warm it up if needed, take it off, heat it, iron flat, after it cools put a clear PETG washer on it with the post and then tighten it just to snug. 1200 plays later still good as new. If you want to get into the cliffies or mylar you know that's just personal choice. But again everyone has more experience than I do on this I'm just regurgitating what you guys are saying that have dealt with this problem.

Anyway I'm sure someone has a couple buckets more of chum to throw in the water so let's get on with it... That's what this thread's all about ain't it?

#1783 2 years ago

Hopefully puberty takes care of Chaka.

#1784 2 years ago
Quoted from TommyMc:

I received a email from Jen at JJP last week telling me my game was almost ready to ship. I cancelled my order telling them that was because of the playfield issues and warranty changes. Their response? Silence not a word!

You are not even close to the first to do that and they probably have a couple thousand on backorder.

So you were direct order.. what was your order date?
Guessing October.

#1853 2 years ago
Quoted from thechakapakuni:

I used to paint cars late 80s early 90s and yes, the acrylic clear is not what it used to be. I actually remember the texture and clarity also wasn’t as good when they banned it. Even with a good wet sand it was never as clear & durable. This makes 90s original PFs the platinum standard and curious when people will start marketing & touting this on pin sales. My Indy is shiny and perfect. The acrylics were deadly tho, I quit painting after my left eye started having spasms after a booth spray. Quality comes at a cost

Now Chaka don't lie. You only saw the 80s on TV!

Super exclusive ad from the Pinside Marketplace!
#1855 2 years ago
Quoted from thechakapakuni:

You keep forgetting the waterfall is a time machine
[quoted image]

Oh snap, Right!

Daddy do something!! Ahhhhhhhhhhhh!!!

I have all the seasons of that series on DVD. Love it!

#1905 2 years ago
Quoted from Darscot:

I can’t think of a worse idea than dumping 4 grand into a brand new pin. That is pouring money into a bad investment. Are we at the point that 100% of GnRs are bad.

Depends on what you're defining as bad plus your expectations. For you, maybe the answer is yes. For me, the answer is no.

#1909 2 years ago
Quoted from jeffro01:

Too much money but not a whole lot of cents...
Jeff

Mildly punny at best.

-3
#1921 2 years ago
Quoted from thechakapakuni:

Well I’m either gonna need to set aside 6 hours to bulletproof my NIB or sell it. As time goes on it just doesn’t seem worth the hassle

Don't let a few bad apples ruin it for you. As long as you've had it you could have done one washer every now and then been done and playing it by now.. and I am pretty confident you've spent more than 6 hours on pinside since you got it so that's just a matter of priorities.

I hope you keep it as I bet you'll be one of those people who says why did I sit in the fence for so long....

#1946 2 years ago
Quoted from thechakapakuni:

When is the replacement PFs going to be ready to order?

They said after the GnR run is complete, end of summer 2022

#1950 2 years ago
Quoted from jeffro01:

But why? Taking a chance? It's a $10K+ purchase and "taking a chance" seems like a less than wise approach to something like that.
I sort of feel like JJP has adopted the Thomas Tusser quote as a company motto... "A fool and his money are soon parted"...
Jeff

Have you played it? Do you like GnR music?

10
#1960 2 years ago
Quoted from JohnTTwo:

Great question, it's not really losing 10k maybe what 2k if you playfield chips or pools. My wife asked for this pin I explained the issues with the playfield she said so what is it fun to play for you, it is for me. I have saved money like not many people l know. Started a IRA at 18 years old, have 3 defined pensions and 2 defined contribution plans. Saved like crazy my whole life. I will be dead in 15 years so why not? Should I have a u-haul with cash in it follow my hurst?
I would agree pinball is a very foolish way to spend money. Fun for me, I don't drink, gamble, or smoke. I have terrible habit of wanting and buying pinball machines that I could most likely sell for more then I paid. Do you think it is foolish for me to but a pinball machine?

Translation: life is short, have fun. Wisdom increases as your time left decreases. Try to learn from the old folks and keep things in perspective. Share truth that helps. Live and let live . Minimize regrets. Don't sweat the small stuff.... Peace, love, and.... pinball.

#1962 2 years ago
Quoted from BMore-Pinball:

All true... but also my tolerance for aggravation, stupidity, poor quality shit decreases as I age ... henceforth my avoidance of buying JJP games

Lol. Fair enough.
Risk vs. reward!

1 week later
#1972 2 years ago
Quoted from BMore-Pinball:

yup - new buyers have no room to complain

Complaints are pretty much extinct on the GnR owners thread... If you're still waiting in line for your GNR you ordered last year, or you're a new order, and you don't know what you're buying by now then your head is stuck in the sand.

#1980 2 years ago
Quoted from NPO:

But they'll sure "jack" those prices up....

Punny!!

#1983 2 years ago
Quoted from thechakapakuni:

Jacked up prices for Jacked up playfields

Double the pun! Nice.

#1998 2 years ago
Quoted from mtp78:

I heard new game will be teased later this year, not built till 2022.

Makes sense since they announced the GNR run is over end of summer 2022, and the spare playfield orders commence.. (for those that dont know they are $499 lower and $119 for the upper playfield)

#2004 2 years ago
Quoted from BMore-Pinball:

I agree, It all depends on your tolerance level
Some people can buy and play and not give 2 shits - more power to them!
For me, the fun doesn't outweigh having to look at that crap every time I play - especially with the availability of other great games without PF issues
and I am always open to buying a used game I can inspect down the line if I really want one that bad

I would add that anyone letting it get to the point of "having to look at that crap" implies they aren't willing, won't or can't put in the time the pin may require to prevent, inspect, stabilize and potentially fix anything that comes up.
Anyone that has 1000+ plays without it "looking like crap" didn't get there just by only playing it. They put in the time with eyes wide open using all the great experience and information gathered by the GnR owners & dedicated community here on pinside over the last year.

I've said it before, the Risk vs. Reward experience is in the DNA of this game. Definitely not for everyone, which I believe is your point, and so I agree with you on that.

#2011 2 years ago
Quoted from dts:

What is the current batch of JJP GnR looking like? I have an invoice at the old price, but haven't paid it yet...Bought GZLE instead but thinking maybe I'll replace my DICE with GnRLE.

When this question comes up I always think to myself, have you played it? Do you like GNR music?
If you've never played it that should be the first thing you do on location somewhere, and if you don't like GNR music I'm not sure you'll ever really love this pin especially with the maintenance that it does require. That's the way I feel about iron maiden. If GNR had been released in all its glory with iron maiden as a theme I don't care how great it is I wouldn't buy it.

So anyway onto your question.... And my opinion....
It's a huge difference from the first batch during the spring of this year. There's a combination of many things such as the knowledge of what was contributing to the problems, improved processes in production at JJP, etc.
But we're one year later from launch now, thousands of these have been shipped and the community is really embraced and experienced turning the lemons into lemonade through trial and error and troubleshooting.
JJP monitors this community and It's proven by changes in their production line, so as much hate as there is from some people they do get credit for improving their production processes to mitigate the problems and as a result I think it's gotten pretty quiet from GNR owners that have received product after around July time frame. Step still need to be taken, post torques still need to be checked, Maybe swap out some posts add some PETG washers, the normal stuff you'll read on the owner's thread in the key posts. Etc etc
I'm not saying you can just expect to take it out of the box and play it forever And have it retain it to museum quality, but you can take it out of the box and enjoy playing it immediately And if you care you can put the effort towards doing preventive maintenance in the beginning, or take the approach where you are inspecting regularly and resolving any issues that develop before they become a real problem.

Your head's in the sand if you think GNR is not going to be a little higher maintenance, but risk versus reward, it's an awesome pin. As dirty harry once said, a man's got to know his limitations. We have owners that have taken these steps and are thousands of plays in with no further issues.

If you don't care about your playfield you can play it like you stole it And live happily ever after. If you want to do your part to keep your play field as beautiful as possible You'll either have to do the work yourself or pay someone to do it.
The last option that is often discussed is that the GNR run is completing at the end of summer 2022. I believe they're currently taking orders for spare play fields and spare upper play fields so that may fit into your contingency plan in the distant future when this pin is worth double or more what you paid for it if you can include a new play field...
Could be considered insurance, or just a smart investment for about 700 bucks. Especially if you have a CE.

#2019 2 years ago
Quoted from Jaybird815:

GNRLEs can be found under 10k, MSRP is 10,500

You win the prize.
I knew someone would fall for that subtle but important detail in zaphX intentional wording when I read it.

The "original MSRP" is $9500. Keyword: original. The difference between being right or wrong .

#2030 2 years ago
Quoted from BMore-Pinball:

Could not care any less about resale value
What I care about is my sanity - and looking at a pooling, peeling, cracking PF every time I go to play the game would drive me nuts
I am not OCD but just can't deal with a PF falling apart with ZERO manufacturer support

Every time... Falling apart... My Sanity.... Drive me nuts... Can't deal....

But...

I'm not ocd..

Over exaggeration, yes, drama queen, a bit maybe.

The reality is that it's completely manageable for most, but for you, sir, you can't see that so this pin is definitely NOT for you. Glad you know it. Props for that.

#2043 2 years ago
Quoted from abelelectronics:

I now have GNR’s in stock if anyone is interested PM me.

This is not the thread you're looking for.

#2046 2 years ago
Quoted from Jaybird815:

I believe he has “upgraded” the process since WoZ

Yep here is the proof.

Screenshot_20210929-204636_Chrome (resized).jpgScreenshot_20210929-204636_Chrome (resized).jpg
#2088 2 years ago
Quoted from thechakapakuni:

Nope. I plan of getting the Playfield offer from JJP and when that arrives, going to send it out (or do it myself) to get clear coated properly, then store it away. Then just play the current PF and not worry about pooling, etc. And then in the future should the current PF pool or clear coat flake off as we’ve seen, I’ll then painfully replace it. Hopefully I never have to do this

What?? You talk like you've opened your Le
Did you really make it past the decision issue?

#2109 2 years ago

Maybe they replaced this one playfield before they realized the precedent they were setting and pulled back to limit their financial labilities... Aka it was a mistake.

That may be completely inaccurate but that's one possibility of how it looks... Subsequently, adjustments were made, warranty verbiage was changed and eventually a list for people wanting PF replacements, at a cost, was implemented.

This is all conjecture, BTW.

#2114 2 years ago

I will say I thought topic was GNR playfield, thanks for pointing that out, my mistake.

#2116 2 years ago
Quoted from JohnTTwo:

I should have mentioned that but thought it was about JJP playfields but can see it has kinda transformed into G&R problems. Sorry

Nah you're right, my bad.
GnR is a hot topic but this thread is a jjp free-for-all.

#2118 2 years ago
Quoted from Skyemont:

I ordered washers from Titan but the holes are to small. Is everyone ordering this?
[quoted image]

Some may be... but mostly people seem to be building their own supply using the clear PETG washers (only using black if cover up is needed), qty is 35 of the 3/4" and 10 of the 7/8" and then some are swapping to the B/W posts if desired, iirc. Owners thread has some key posts.

#2121 2 years ago

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/the-official-jjp-gnr-thread/page/190#post-6277543

Quoted from fooflighter:

Just FYI I did not use metal washers on top of the petg I think those will add too much pressure and you're going to now create a larger circle of pooling... Again your mileage may vary I'm just saying what I've experienced over 1,700 plays using posts on bare PETG with no metal washer. The point of using the petg was that it was rigid but yet slightly flexible to allow some give at the edges I'm afraid a metal washer is going to force down too much of that contact surface and you're going to create a larger problem over time... just my opinion though

Quoted from fooflighter:

Nothing is a guarantee but I would say you are eliminating 95% (maybe more) of the risk.
I rescrew everything just snug hand tight (thumb and two fingers) - so far nothing has come loose - I always check when I'm cleaning which is about every 50 - 75 games. So far so good and no impressions of the larger washers.
You can actually see the point of contact in this (extreme closeup) photo of the PETG with the playfield (the dark ring) - that isn't a bubble or pooling, its the most direct contact portion of the playfield to the washer...so there may be a micro thin area towards the outer edges of the disk spreading from that contact point that is not contacting the playfield at all ...instead the point of contact is angled and spread out by the PETG fender to the sidewall of the hole, diminishing contact force outward from the post versus a direct hard contact point on the edge of the post where the pounds per square inch of force would definitely be greater especially during a ball strike.
[quoted image]

Quoted from fooflighter:

I honestly think the largest washer you can get the better because it disperses more of the flat surface and translates more of that side load action of the post away from the direct center of pressure
The way PETG flexes slightly allows for minimal contact near the center of the post and then less pressure as you proceed outward to the very edge of the washer where there's almost no contact with the playfield It literally floats just slightly above.. maybe a micro thin measurement above
I think if you used a smaller metal washer you definitely going to apply more direct pressure to the center which doesn't really help the type of pooling that we're seeing
For the most part I've used 3/4-in PETG washers everywhere I can some areas I could squeeze in a 7/8 but for the most part 3/4
As far as your question about the PETG then the metal washer that will work but keep in mind the PETGs are pretty thick already they're a slightly larger than the number 6 through 10 washer size and you may be changing the geometry by using a clear washer with a metal If you wanted to use the metal with some type of protection the cliffy carbon which is thinner plus a metal washer may be a better bet I just opted for the clear because I don't see them at all anymore and if done right away they blend right into the playfield and you can still see all the art You can always put a cliffy on later if you don't like it but I think once you put a cliffy on it's hard to go backwards because of the adhesive

#2128 2 years ago

.. But are there really "new playfields" or is jjp just implementing steps in assembly to mitigate the issues the playfields had, and possibly still currently have? And we as a forum are also getting better at knowing what spots to look for and being proactive on how to fix / prevent the known issues. It's a collective effort.

Has anything changed at mirco since day 1? I don't think we know.

Happy 1 year birthday to GNR, tomorrow!
A masterpiece game. (imo)

#2132 2 years ago
Quoted from jfh:

I haven’t been paying close attention for a while - can I assume that JJP has changed the warranty terms so that the playfield is excluded from any warranty coverage?

Hold on, let me get my asbestos suit on first....

#2136 2 years ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

Yeah you didn't deserve a negative some just assume Everybody reads every post. Yes sadly (and poorly timed) JJP updated the minimal warranty to basically exclude anything as covered including the playfield. Wouldn't bother most but the change came on the wave of playfield issues which was not a great move.

Well said, diplomatic.. and very accurate.

jfh Here's a post comparing the two versions of warranties.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/why-is-jjp-still-making-games-with-faulty-playfields/page/22#post-6350432

So...
How bout those Bears?

#2142 2 years ago
Quoted from Haymaker:Its absolutely baffling to me that they didn't implement this seemingly proven and simple fix right after these issues popped up shortly after the game was released. Even if you consider it a band aid, its infinitely better than adding washers everywhere!

And black washers at that! I'll be replacing them.
They should be using clear.

#2149 2 years ago
Quoted from thechakapakuni:

Oh be careful. If you do that, any issues will be
[quoted image]

lol. Chaka thats your favorite GIF... followed by

205669 (resized).png205669 (resized).png
#2160 2 years ago

I am sure expansion of production lines in their new facility and additional staff required is constant financial drain, plus I don't think their two new game designers work for peanuts either...

#2218 2 years ago

New factory, new workers, post shutdown/pandemic. It's all related . Not excluding playfields but these are global quality issues. Could partially explain older games less problems.

-4
#2221 2 years ago

Not making excuses just saying this is all contributing... Even an emotionally oriented male should be able to get that logic.

#2254 2 years ago
Quoted from MrBubbles:

I looked on the JJP website and can't find where the warranty is explained to know what has changed. Am I missing something? Can someone provide a link to their warranty terms?

Yes. You're searching in the wrong place. You should be searching here...keyword: warranty

Results will reveal post #1099:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/why-is-jjp-still-making-games-with-faulty-playfields/page/22#post-6350432

Alternatively, the ipdb will provide you links to both versions of the JJP owner's manuals, which is where the warranty lives.
https://www.ipdb.org/machine.cgi?id=6765

#2278 2 years ago

I think he addressed it this year if I'm not mistaken. thechakapakuni isn't that correct? Remind the group what he told everybody when asked, please.

#2284 2 years ago
Quoted from bossk4hire:

So what's the best kind of washer to put down over top of a spot that is pooling? The ones that are rubber or a hard plaatic/metal?

Consensus is PETG only, clear in color after you repair the pooling or could use black if you're trying to cover up. There are variations of opinion involving other methods.

Read this
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/the-official-jjp-gnr-thread/page/226#post-6338289

#2296 2 years ago

I think it's more like..
I tested positive for COVID and was asymptomatic.

#2298 2 years ago

Yes it's real, like the flu. But like any flu, you're either negatively affected or you're not. Happy for those that are healthy and not negatively affected by the flu or playfield problems.
For playfields, There's several choices of "vaccine" for those that are in the high risk category, one for example is called Stern. It's not a guarantee as breakthrough can occur but symptoms could be minimized....

I could have fun with this analogy all day long.

#2300 2 years ago

I edited to be more generalized, but you can read between the lines.
P.s. I agree and wouldn't be unhappy at all if the thread got locked. Just sayin..

#2340 2 years ago
Quoted from hiker2099:

They sent me to check out what the ruckus is all about.... We heard you guys in the next forum and was wondering if you could keep it down. lol. J/K

just some blasphemy against the topic - said something about "their JJP playfield was fine"
and "issues were blown out of proportion" to which the thread responded, as expected, by blowing things up.

#2351 2 years ago
Quoted from EricHadley:

I got a Micro Funhouse.

Quoted from Bundy:

Why is this so hard for people to get right? His name is Mirco. Given all the talk about his playfields one would assume his name was known by now

I've heard rumors about this kind of thing happening .. It's not people, it's the machines. They're out to get us... They think they're smarter than us, and maybe someday they will be....

2021-10-22_8-36-44 (resized).jpg2021-10-22_8-36-44 (resized).jpg
1 week later
#2398 2 years ago
Quoted from BMore-Pinball:

Can you elaborate on that?
Stern's hardware doesn't seem to restrict them

He "could" and it was a fair question until your apparently pointed comment... Crickets for you.

#2414 2 years ago
Quoted from bobukcat:

Done, but it's stuck way down in a fairly old thread about playfield issues so it's unlikely to be seen by the vast majority of JJP owners. As a WOZ owner this does make me feel a bit better about long-term viability of the game.

I posted about this in the GNR owner's thread and linked back to this. Maybe key post mine?

#2417 2 years ago
Quoted from bobukcat:

I don't see it in the WOZ club thread, I don't visit the ones for the other games because I don't own them.

Same situation, different game for me (GNR). So I edited my original post to indicate GNR owners thread.
With all the press on GNR, and as I am immersed in GNR only, I forget its an "All JJP" thread technically. oops!
Thanks for the reminder!

1 week later
#2459 2 years ago

Just wait till PinWoofer finds out you guys are talking about sound stuff without him..

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