(Topic ID: 292889)

Why is JJP still making games with faulty playfields?

By PanzerFreak

3 months ago


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There are 1562 posts in this topic. You are on page 5 of 32.
#201 73 days ago

They already have "Gorilla Glass" playfields...it was called Diamond Plate, and its still available.

-2
#202 73 days ago
Quoted from zr11990:

GnR is beautiful but that is all. The code sucks. You bat the ball around till you qualify for a song then you play the song and you do it again. The endless multiballs have no point and they are tiring. Im glad mine is sold

Dude we get it, you played the game for 5 mins and didn’t like it. You don’t have to shit on the game every chance you get. I’m 99.99% sure the game doesn’t suck.

I’ll give it a month before you get rid of your JP for kicking your ass too much.

#203 73 days ago
Quoted from zr11990:

GnR is beautiful but that is all. The code sucks. You bat the ball around till you qualify for a song then you play the song and you do it again. The endless multiballs have no point and they are tiring. Im glad mine is sold

Exact same reason i sold my POTC CE
No code, no story, shallow - not deep. After a few hundred games I was bored to death

-11
#204 73 days ago

If you play pinball for a story i think you’re doing it wrong

I can describe any pinball game ever made and make it sound like the most boring simple thing ever

So I plunged the ball and flapped my flippers to hit a few shots and then I drained, lame. Insert game name here ___

#205 73 days ago
Quoted from nicoy3k:

Dude we get it, you played the game for 5 mins and didn’t like it. You don’t have to shit on the game every chance you get. I’m 99.99% sure the game doesn’t suck.

The best part is you can continue to enjoy your game even though he does not like it. People can have different opinions...crazy huh?

19
#206 73 days ago
Quoted from zaphX:

Man. You didn't spend any time to understand the game at all.
"You bat the ball around till you qualify for a song" - No. You run the 4 multiballs and try to maximize jackpots as much as possible to go into the song with a decent song level. You also want to collect as many patches as you can to assist you during the song. And never mind the wizard modes for tour, slash, and the 4 albums...
If you're only going to look at pins at the surface level, you shouldn't buy ones with deep rulesets.

sorry but this isn't a deep rule set in my view not like JP2, GoT or AIQ. You are always heading in the one direction which is to the song mode and the game focuses too much on the song mode in my view. Why are all the booster modes have to be multi-balls? Why couldn't the booster modes be just simple modes. I think if you took the MB out of 3 of those modes the game would instantly get better. Then in the song mode you hit shots until you have to hit the scoop and its not obvious what you need to hit unless you look at the screen at the back. I liked GNR at first but I've found it to be wood-chopping heaven. Took me almost 40 minutes to get an almost 100M score and honestly big chunks of it I don't know how I got the score. Its a good game just not anywhere near the hype it has received. Once I got that score I just didn't want to play it again. JJP take the wood chopping out please!

I also have the playfield problem and so far the JJP response has been farcical. I feel for the distributors who have to take it in the gut from their customers whilst JJP has GNR playing too loud in their office to even hear their customers and make them good. Last JJP I buy. Stern has resolved issues for me every time and in my view stand by their customers much more than JJP.

I knew when I ordered the game that JJP hadn't fixed this problem and I would likely get hosed by them - despite contrary propaganda from them and their piss poor suppliers; so I'm not crazy pissed off but if I'd got a CE it would be going back to my supplier for a refund. For reasons I struggle to understand JJP have a perception of high quality and standing by their customers, sadly now owned 2 JJP games the reality is poor quality and they don't give a toss about their customers.

Neil.

#207 73 days ago
Quoted from zaphX:

Assuming you still have yours, try giving it another shot, focusing on a few specific goals:

I appreciate the tips but I know how to play the game. My main problem with GnR is the game play loop. I guess you can call it a deep game (I think that is debatable) but it is very narrow because everything you do outside of the song mode is done to increase the score of the song mode. It is laser focused on song modes. And when you get to the song mode, it really isn't that enjoyable...aside from the amazing lighting and musicality...which to me wears off after about 100-200 plays. The game is too heavy on MB. I understand why it is because of the "push your luck" mechanic of song modes but it gets tiresome. I never get that "one more game" itch when I play it, which is disappointing. The patches are a nice touch and I hope that more games explore collecting items that give you specific bonuses just like picking a character in POTC or SW gives the player a specific bonus. But that doesn't fix my issue with the game play loop.

There are other issues I have with the game like Chinese Democracy only having 3 songs and 2 are absolute ear cancer. There are better songs on that album. They could have filled all of the albums after Appetite so it isn't so unbalanced. The callouts are super cringy as are about half of the sound effects. The skill shot is meh, especially how it awkwardly comes out to feed the right flipper. The way shots are highlighted can be confusing. After playing awhile, not so much.

Even with all the issues I have there are some really great things about this game. Light shows/musicality are one of the best if not the best. The right ramp shot is just really fun for me to shoot as is the under flipper shot and the middle spinner (when there isn't a hang up due to the guitar shaped target). The lights rails are really cool, but only on the LE/CE. I like the choice of cashing out your jackpot or pushing your luck. Coma mode is cool. Accumulating time playing a song to qualify wizard mode is interesting (even though for me, the act of doing that is not enjoyable). Album wizard modes are pretty good although I think there is definitely room for improvement. I am sure those will improve with code updates. And of course the fit and finish on GnR (with the exception of clear coat around posts) is like every JJP game...which is always great.

This is just my opinion and it should not affect your enjoyment of the game. I merely chimed in because I agreed with zr11990

#208 73 days ago

We are all glad you like it. Different strokes man. I gave Led Zeppelin a chance and it’s actually fun. I wouldn’t buy it but it’s fun

#209 73 days ago
Quoted from gunstarhero:

JJPs promises a aside... Chris K relentlessly promoted the game, got people to buy it, and now he just talks shit. He didn’t tell one person not to buy GNR. Or Wonka for that matter and he bitched out on it. And it’s not like the problem PF trend had not already been established.
And as for publicity, who the hell pays any attention to Chris K besides us pinheads, and we already know!!
Look I’m not saying you can’t like him, it’s a free country. But seriously, I just don’t get the appeal of listening to someone put companies on blast after spending months sucking up to them. YMMV.

I think the reason that kaneda is extra hypocritical right now is because he's doing shows literally telling people to cancel their GnR orders, but he has an unopened CE in a box that he's not going to return. He wants everyone else to put pressure on jjp but he's not going to give up his game.

#210 73 days ago
Quoted from zaphX:

Well I'm sorry that it doesn't work for you. I had a lot of trepidation going into this one, not being a GNR fan or a band pin fan.
For us, the allure of maximizing the pre-song setup, then executing in-song without blowing it is a deep hook.
FWIW my wife and I did both go through a phase where we thought "maybe this isn't the game for us" but that was before we -really- started clicking with the rules. During that time Susan was like "Eh, sell it if you want to."
She's now in the "you cannot sell this" camp. We both are
Assuming you still have yours, try giving it another shot, focusing on a few specific goals:
1. First just try and get all 4 multiballs each time before going into a song. Start off one by one, then try for building the stack of all 4.
2. Next try and get the multiballs -and- nail their jackpots. (Some are really rewarding like the under-flipper jackpot for Crowd)
3. Then in-song, understand how to start Band Frenzy by shooting the active band members until all are lit, then spam the center spinner to blow up the jackpot.
4. One you've got that, now start looking at building patches before the song...many of them will spot characters for the whole game, making band frenzy easier to get. I like to get Rose, Fender, Gibson, Vader and Skull...this spots everyone except Richard (spinner) and the keyboardists. Once you get a song with 4-5 band frenzies blowing things up, I bet you'll be hooked.

Sounds a lot like Hobbit....just stack all the shit all the time and you're fine as long as you're halfway competent at playing a multiball.

Ironically, this is a chronic issue with JJP games. They've almost gone TOO far with trying to layer and let people stack up everything. There's no sense of progression or achievement when I'm playing Hobbit. I couldn't tell you where I am on the modes, or care less, because 99% of my time is spent in double stacked monster+smaug multiball.

And now you're saying that this game wants you to play FOUR MULTIBALLS....before every mode? And they all stack?! Oh god, no.

#211 73 days ago
Quoted from vid1900:

The problem can't just be **fixed** (unless somebody wants to buy a new $200,000 printer).

Why don't they just stop putting artwork under the posts like Stern and Spooky have? I know that isn't a "fix" in the basic sense, but it seems to be much better.

#212 73 days ago
Quoted from seenev:

I think the reason that kaneda is extra hypocritical right now is because he's doing shows literally telling people to cancel their GnR orders, but he has an unopened CE in a box that he's not going to return. He wants everyone else to put pressure on jjp but he's not going to give up his game.

Thanks for letting me know seenev. I figured as much. Hell if it was HIS CE that was damaged and he was raging against JJP I would get his “outrage”.

I feel for every guy who’s game is damaged. And mine isn’t perfect either. But what he’s doing isn’t helping us!

And I will say if some guy with a bad PF comes out and says “Hey! JJP fixed my game because of Chris K!” or if JJP comes out and says “Because of Kaneda’s incessant bitching we are replacing all of your PFs!” I will gladly admit I was wrong.

I won’t go back to listening to his show tho, lol.

#213 73 days ago
Quoted from Vespula:

I am going to be in the new generation of first time nib jjp pin owners (whenever it finally ships) and accept that I'm definitely part of the problem in some people's minds as I wish mine would hurry up and ship so I can enjoy playing it in between installing mods, learning how to fix the issues (under warranty) and to care for it. I'm jjps perfect customer...a fixit kind of guy. I think I should be rewarded and moved to the front of the line!! (Are you reading this JJP!?!? Hint:Order: 466-SO114303 ) It will be my first pin!!! I accept the task! Eyes wide open! Gnfr!

I cannot believe this post got 6 downvotes. This hobby never ceases to disappoint.

#214 73 days ago
Quoted from DerGoetz:

Exact same reason i sold my POTC CE
No code, no story, shallow - not deep. After a few hundred games I was bored to death

I’ve tried telling people this before.

Quoted from Gattiman:

AIQ lost because the game looks atrocious and has hideous rushed looking art. Side by side GnR looks substantially nicer, more expensive and more detailed. The art and color scheme are much more fluid. It’s just a better looking game and really rocks if you get into it. AIQ plays great but GnR plays AND looks great. That’s why GnR won to me.

Led Zeppelin > GnR
Musically and pinball wise.

#215 73 days ago
Quoted from Frax:

Sounds a lot like Hobbit....just stack all the shit all the time and you're fine as long as you're halfway competent at playing a multiball.
Ironically, this is a chronic issue with JJP games. They've almost gone TOO far with trying to layer and let people stack up everything. There's no sense of progression or achievement when I'm playing Hobbit. I couldn't tell you where I am on the modes, or care less, because 99% of my time is spent in double stacked monster+smaug multiball.
And now you're saying that this game wants you to play FOUR MULTIBALLS....before every mode? And they all stack?! Oh god, no.

I'm telling ya man, it's fun and addictive. Come over and see!

#216 73 days ago
Quoted from TheFamilyArcade:

I cannot believe this post got 6 downvotes. This hobby never ceases to disappoint.

Ikr. Vicious group. Any publicity is good publicity these days I guess. Cancel me, I double dog dare ya! It's my love for risk/reward games .

Anyway, What's the down vote record here?
Am I close?

#217 73 days ago
Quoted from Vespula:

Anyway, What's the down vote record here?
Am I close?

I have yet to plumb the complete depths of down vote hell, but it is safe to say, I have had some major runs... 80 to a 100 downvotes and you are doing ok... but the pros can really rack em up. It just takes something special like posting a picture of someone assaulting a child or a gif of someone making road kill out of a small furry animal... or bitch about playfield chipping in a owner/fanboy thread... all of these seem to work well.

#218 73 days ago

Looks like my down vote scoring ability is about as good as my ability to rack up points on GNR. If only GNR had deeper code, better lights and music, more assets and mechs.....

(How am I doing now??? Better??)

#219 73 days ago
Quoted from Vespula:

Looks like my down vote scoring ability is about as good as my ability to rack up points on GNR. If only GNR had deeper code, better lights and music, more assets and mechs.....
(How am I doing now??? Better??)

Not sure about down votes, but I keep waiting for that one guy to pop in with his obligatory statement pointing out that GNR was the Game of the Year in the Twippies.

#220 73 days ago

Why are they still putting artwork under anyplace that has contact with a post, or screw, or rail?? For posts this should be easy for them to solve.

-1
#221 73 days ago
Quoted from arcademojo:

Why are they still putting artwork under anyplace that has contact with a post, or screw, or rail?? For posts this should be easy for them to solve.

You can’t have bare wood. The clear is still going to come off and look like shit.

#222 73 days ago
Quoted from zr11990:

You can’t have bare wood. The clear is still going to come off and look like shit.

Can you show examples of this. Seems like Stern when the art is removed so is the issue at posts.

#223 73 days ago
Quoted from Frax:

Sounds a lot like Hobbit....just stack all the shit all the time and you're fine as long as you're halfway competent at playing a multiball.

Thats not how Hobbit works at all. You sure you know what you are talking about?

#224 73 days ago
Quoted from Vespula:

Anyway, What's the down vote record here?
Am I close?

I once got over 100 with my gallows humor, but I'm not sure what the actual record is.

#225 73 days ago
Quoted from zr11990:

You can’t have bare wood. The clear is still going to come off and look like shit.

The clear is not coming off all by itself.

The Ink is lifting from the playfield, and that of course pulls the clear with it

mirco afm playfield (resized).jpg
#226 73 days ago
Quoted from vid1900:

The clear is not coming off all by itself.
The Ink is lifting from the playfield, and that of course pulls the clear with it[quoted image]

When I sad that no one listened.

#227 73 days ago
Quoted from zr11990:

When I sad that no one listened.

It's not like anyone is going to listen to me either, lol

#228 73 days ago
Quoted from vid1900:

The clear is not coming off all by itself.
The Ink is lifting from the playfield, and that of course pulls the clear with it[quoted image]

Darned. That looks really terrible.
Sorry to see it.

#229 73 days ago

Is that a Mirco PF? Damn. Im telling you though, I have bought probably 6 or more PFs from him and at least 4 have had issues. He has made good on them but I guess he decided not to make good on them anymore. Buy with a credit card and if you get a POS have the charges reversed.

I wanted to buy a CC PF to have a nice shiny CCd PF for my CC that I never play but Im not paying 1200 to receive a POS from that guy.

#230 73 days ago
Quoted from zr11990:

You can’t have bare wood. The clear is still going to come off and look like shit.

Unlikely. The problem seems to be ink adhesion to the wood with digital printing. When there's no white layer, then ink, then clear and the clear instead is straight to the prepped wood, it seems to solve the problem, or at the very least lessen it DRAMATICALLY. Mirco has to go, but even with that, taking away the art around the posts would not be a bad idea for JJP to explore.

#231 73 days ago
Quoted from seenev:

I think the reason that kaneda is extra hypocritical right now is because he's doing shows literally telling people to cancel their GnR orders, but he has an unopened CE in a box that he's not going to return. He wants everyone else to put pressure on jjp but he's not going to give up his game.

Lol.... Return it.... How is that supposed to work?
Naive

#232 73 days ago
Quoted from zaphX:

I'm telling ya man, it's fun and addictive. Come over and see!

Hey, I'll be happy to take you up on that. Despite my comments, I actually do like Hobbit more than it has any right to be liked. The goofy callouts, and the ridiculous amount of jackpots when you have a bunch of things running is very reminiscent of the cheesy-ness of things like Avatar/Mustang to me (AMP SOOOOT JACKPAWWWT). It's not a bad game to PLAY....unless it's in tournament or league... *shudder*

Quoted from Palmer:

Thats not how Hobbit works at all. You sure you know what you are talking about?

LMAO. Yes, unfortunately, when you play competitively, yeah...actually....that IS how Hobbit works. And I've spent the vast majority of time on Hobbit in competitive situations, oddly enough. Literally, my 7 year old son at the time grasped the rules of Hobbit well enough to get all the way to the start shot of the 2nd wizard mode, after I'd gotten to the first one on ball one. Was it knowledge, or just the fact that it's so easy to just wail away at things from the safety of multiball?

#233 73 days ago
Quoted from PinMonk:

The problem seems to be ink adhesion to the wood with digital printing.

No clearcoat in the world is going to hold down the artwork when the ink is not adhered to the playfield

Silkscreened ink lasts 70 years on a playfield, this digital crap can't make it 7 months.

e4b83f34e86bb446e4a24bd7f133da931888050b (resized).jpg
#234 73 days ago
Quoted from zr11990:

You can’t have bare wood. The clear is still going to come off and look like shit.

Clear can be fixed easily. Artwork, not so much. It's that simple. Stern had to switch back to doing it and JJP should too.

29
#235 73 days ago

I'm asking my distrubtor to delay my LE order over these issues, if it's not resolved later I'll just cancel and buy another Stern game.

This issue is unacceptable, Jersey Jack Pinball continuing to use Mirco after now messing up playfields for 3 releases is unacceptable, and sending customers washers after spending this amount of money is unacceptable. The cost of these games represent a decent chunk of year income for a majority of buyers and the last thing people want to deal with after spending nearly $10k on a pin is playfield issues of all things.

In the meantime I just had the best unboxing experience ever with a new Stern TMNT Premium. Game looks perfect as is the playfield. Fun game with no issues (so far, knock on wood). This is how it should be. I don't care how loaded and fun JJP games are, none of that matters if playfield issues exist.

20210522_150229 (resized).jpg

#236 73 days ago

I think there’s a good chance every one of these GnR playfields are faulty.

#237 73 days ago

What a shame. I like playing GnR on location but glad I didn’t get bent over buying one.

#238 73 days ago
Quoted from Sako-TRG:

I think there’s a good chance every one of these GnR playfields are faulty.

Mine had no issues.

#239 73 days ago

Anyone think it would help to let game sit for a month or 2 before playing it?

Does the damage happen after a certain amount of games???

Or is it already damaged when You unbox it?

#240 73 days ago
Quoted from Sako-TRG:

I think there’s a good chance every one of these GnR playfields are faulty.

It seems like the very early ones may have benefited from months and months of extended, unexpected 2020 cure time waiting for COVID lockdown to be over. I haven't heard of any of them having these issues.

#241 73 days ago
Quoted from sepins:Anyone think it would help to let game sit for a month or 2 before playing it?

Nope.

Even unpopulated playfields have started to lift just sitting around in a box, well over a year after production

#242 73 days ago
Quoted from Frax:

Sounds a lot like Hobbit....just stack all the shit all the time and you're fine as long as you're halfway competent at playing a multiball.
Ironically, this is a chronic issue with JJP games. They've almost gone TOO far with trying to layer and let people stack up everything. There's no sense of progression or achievement when I'm playing Hobbit. I couldn't tell you where I am on the modes, or care less, because 99% of my time is spent in double stacked monster+smaug multiball.
And now you're saying that this game wants you to play FOUR MULTIBALLS....before every mode? And they all stack?! Oh god, no.

You can turn off beast MB starting during Smaug MB in the settings. Makes things a lot cleaner.

#243 73 days ago
Quoted from PinMonk:

It seems like the very early ones may have benefited from months and months of extended, unexpected 2020 cure time waiting for COVID lockdown to be over. I haven't heard of any of them having these issues.

What about the very early run, the so called 100 prototype run.... they were a disaster - all started chipping / pooling....”but wait guys these are the protos don’t worry, your ones will be fine”.... just more bullshit.

#244 73 days ago
Quoted from PinMonk:

It seems like the very early ones may have benefited from months and months of extended, unexpected 2020 cure time waiting for COVID lockdown to be over. I haven't heard of any of them having these issues.

1/21 Build date. Received 2/4
Just posted in CE thread

20210522_173024 (resized).jpg20210522_173052 (resized).jpg20210522_173553 (resized).jpg20210522_182528 (resized).jpg
#245 73 days ago
Quoted from Sako-TRG:

What about the very early run, the so called 100 prototype run.... they were a disaster - all started chipping / pooling....”but wait guys these are the protos don’t worry, your ones will be fine”.... just more bullshit.

I saw some pooling in those, but I didn't see any art coming off of those. It's entirely possible I missed pics of the ones you're talking about, though. Pinside moves fast.

#246 73 days ago

They can print glittery ink but not durable ink?

#247 73 days ago
Quoted from Sako-TRG:

What about the very early run, the so called 100 prototype run.... they were a disaster - all started chipping / pooling....”but wait guys these are the protos don’t worry, your ones will be fine”.... just more bullshit.

I played a December build LE this morning at a fellow Pinsider’s house that looked perfect, built after those first 100. So what happened after that? I know Mirco did playfields in the past that were fine, for example Lebowski and Alien in my collection. I recall that he bought a new playfield printer when I spoke with him at TPF 2018. Is this when it started? Maybe the machine prints inconsistently. I’m probably taking a pass until this is fixed.

#248 73 days ago

My CGC MB playfield is dimpled AF, but no chipping or artwork loss anywhere... screen printed bitches!! Get with the program.

#249 73 days ago
Quoted from dts:

I played a December build LE this morning at a fellow Pinsider’s house that looked perfect, built after those first 100. So what happened after that? I know Mirco did playfields in the past that were fine, for example Lebowski and Alien in my collection. I recall that he bought a new playfield printer when I spoke with him at TPF 2018. Is this when it started? Maybe the machine prints inconsistently. I’m probably taking a pass until this is fixed.

Hobbit was the last one Mirco delivered that had no major problems I know of. Dialed In had major chipping. Wonka, jjPotC, and jjGnR all have pooling and ink adhesion problems to varying degrees (all degrees well into unacceptable range).

I know he has different levels of finish, with ceramic being the best and most expensive. Maybe Hobbit had the ceramic finish and it was nixed for being too expensive. Dunno. SOMETHING changed. Mirco has had 4 machines past that to work it out. WAY past time for JJP to find a new solution, whether external vendor with a proven record or the longer-term in house road.

#250 73 days ago

What surprises me is that you never hear anything from Mirco, nothing. As I said he used to be good at sending a replacement PF but apparently not anymore.

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