(Topic ID: 292889)

Why is JJP still making games with faulty playfields?

By PanzerFreak

6 months ago


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#2351 37 days ago
Quoted from Bundy:

Why is this so hard for people to get right? His name is Mirco. Given all the talk about his playfields one would assume his name was known by now

I've heard rumors about this kind of thing happening .. It's not people, it's the machines. They're out to get us... They think they're smarter than us, and maybe someday they will be....

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#2352 37 days ago

It was a simple typo. I know it’s Mirco.

#2353 37 days ago
Quoted from Bundy:

Why is this so hard for people to get right? His name is Mirco. Given all the talk about his playfields one would assume his name was known by now

Is this Lars Micro my old hockey league buddy?

#2354 37 days ago

Many confuse Mirco with the former Table Soccer/Foosball manufacturer.

#2355 36 days ago
Quoted from MrBally:

Many confuse Mirco with the former Table Soccer/Foosball manufacturer.

That explains it Nevermind

#2356 36 days ago
Quoted from MrBally:

Many confuse Mirco with the former Table Soccer/Foosball manufacturer.

And MircoSoft.

#2357 33 days ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

Just got the game fully unboxed and on its legs. The build date just says 7/21 on the cabinet, no exact build date by the day (first JJP game I've seen like this). I don't see a build date stamp anywhere on the front of the playfield. Maybe the latest build playfields are no longer stamped? Havent played a ball yet on the game, more stuff to do (mods lol).
The playfield looks gorgeous and I hope it stays that way. I see 9 posts so far with black washers. 5 are near the bottom of the playfield, one near the upper area of the shooter lane, 2 near the pops, and 1 on the upper playfield.
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PanzerFreak hows your PF holding up? Did you change out any stock posts from this July build?

#2358 29 days ago

Just watched the Expo JJP seminar again. Oddly not one question or concern from Anyone about playfields lol. Tougher without a keyboard or was this concern not an issue? Basically just a reminder “you guys are great, consider making 3000 CEs next time.” Lol

#2359 29 days ago

Watched it also. To bad I’m not there. As S.W.A.T had to get me out of the room...... owners fault jack? Have a taste of a good old QC controlled woody PF

#2360 29 days ago
Quoted from thechakapakuni:

PanzerFreak hows your PF holding up? Did you change out any stock posts from this July build?

It's holding up grest so far, no issues, hopefully it stays that way. July build with the latest washer / post combo.

#2361 29 days ago

Got my October build Wonka and no issues.

#2362 29 days ago

Have a July build as well and no issues with the pf. I will say I think the clear coat is a bit thinner but still shines up like most of my games. In fact it looks similar to my Dialed In pf with hundred of games and no issues.

#2363 29 days ago
Quoted from hiker2099:

Got my October build Wonka and no issues.

That's great to hear, have been heavily considering buying a Wonka from this final run.

-1
#2364 29 days ago

I have an AIQ (Stern) and WE (JJP). I know playfields have been an issue but JJP all around seems to be higher quality product by far. I love them both.

#2365 28 days ago
Quoted from hiker2099:

I have an AIQ (Stern) and WE (JJP). I know playfields have been an issue but JJP all around seems to be higher quality product by far. I love them both.

Jjp feels more solid but I have put hours Into getting GnR in shape and almost nothing into 3 stern games. They just played out of the box.

#2366 27 days ago
Quoted from hiker2099:

I have an AIQ (Stern) and WE (JJP). I know playfields have been an issue but JJP all around seems to be higher quality product by far. I love them both.

It may seem like it is, but I would argue they are not

#2367 27 days ago
Quoted from BMore-Pinball:

It may seem like it is, but I would argue they are not

Wow man are you a politician?

#2368 26 days ago
Quoted from romulusx:

Wow mec es-tu un politicien?

I'm neither for nor against, on the contrary

#2369 25 days ago
Quoted from glpinball:

Jjp feels more solid but I have put hours Into getting GnR in shape and almost nothing into 3 stern games. They just played out of the box.

Some design choices in the control electronic of my DialedIn LE really baffles me. Compared to Stern or even Pinball Brothers (I just looked at the design of the Alien remake), I would on contrary argue that it's not designed for longevity, at least this portion.

If it were, they would not have used a consumer type PC motherboard with a consumer type PC graphics board, plugged in a vertical position. It will fail eventually. And no you just can't change the motherboard and the graphics board, the embedded Linux distribution is tied to the HW, so unless JJP provides SW maintenance to allow for support of newer motherboard and graphics board, or somebody hack their distribution, you will be toast if the motherboard dies (not to mention they likely have a custom sbios)

#2370 25 days ago
Quoted from Ashram56:

Some design choices in the control electronic of my DialedIn LE really baffles me. Compared to Stern or even Pinball Brothers (I just looked at the design of the Alien remake), I would on contrary argue that it's not designed for longevity, at least this portion.
If it were, they would not have used a consumer type PC motherboard with a consumer type PC graphics board, plugged in a vertical position. It will fail eventually. And no you just can't change the motherboard and the graphics board, the embedded Linux distribution is tied to the HW, so unless JJP provides SW maintenance to allow for support of newer motherboard and graphics board, or somebody hack their distribution, you will be toast if the motherboard dies (not to mention they likely have a custom sbios)

I tend to agree - but don't think may others do
JJP threw a PC in there
Stern has boards designed for a pinball machine

#2371 25 days ago

which is why jjp are Better Quality as far as pinball goes and more expensive and heavier ..well was more expensive
now that Stern thinks the LE's are worth 10800 for a Homepin with a coin door ,Upgraded Playfield and Screen and over 6k for a Pro which again a stripped LE Homepin with upgrade, lol
. Just look how many new Godzillas are having issues. Yes Great looking game. great theme ,But Out of the park expensive for what it is .. What was a transformers / star wars home pin price under 3 k?
Put a Better PF /LCD add coin door and bump the price 2 fold...lol ... Keep buying . Me , no more. I will have quarters on hand and go play somewhere and let others Pay these Gouged prices /.
The Playfield from Mirco Sucks however . looks great until it starts it Self destruction from normal plays in the play areas / the washers are not a solution .

Quoted from BMore-Pinball:

I tend to agree - but don't think may others do
JJP threw a PC in there
Stern has boards designed for a pinball machine

#2372 25 days ago
Quoted from PinFever:

which is why jjp are Better Quality

yup ... sure

#2373 25 days ago
Quoted from PinFever:

which is why jjp are Better Quality as far as pinball goes and more expensive and heavier ..well was more expensive
now that Stern thinks the LE's are worth 10800 for a Homepin with a coin door ,Upgraded Playfield and Screen and over 6k for a Pro which again a stripped LE Homepin with upgrade, lol
. Just look how many new Godzillas are having issues. Yes Great looking game. great theme ,But Out of the park expensive for what it is .. What was a transformers / star wars home pin price under 3 k?
Put a Better PF /LCD add coin door and bump the price 2 fold...lol ... Keep buying . Me , no more. I will have quarters on hand and go play somewhere and let others Pay these Gouged prices /.
The Playfield from Mirco Sucks however . looks great until it starts it Self destruction from normal plays in the play areas / the washers are not a solution .

#2374 25 days ago
Quoted from PinFever:

which is why jjp are Better Quality as far as pinball goes and more expensive and heavier

JJP fanboys are always making the argument that weight = quality.

#2375 25 days ago

JJP did not make the PF . and that is the Only Issue..

Fanboy of JJP= Not likely . My first and last JJP due to Warranty

Quoted from Palmer:

JJP fanboys are always making the argument that weight = quality.

Talk out your Bazzooo . Make claims i am a Fanboy..Lol Fake News man

#2376 25 days ago
Quoted from BMore-Pinball:

I tend to agree - but don't think may others do
JJP threw a PC in there
Stern has boards designed for a pinball machine

Well Pinball Brothers also put a PC, but at least it's an industrial grade box. Their design architecture is probably more expensive than Stern, but they could not afford very likely a custom design like Stern did (who is using NXP if I recall), so a PC was their best bet. Although god knows I think a PC is not suitable for this type of application, at least they did their homework in terms of reliability. For their first (well one would argue their second) it's not a bad accomplishment.

Really wonder, does JJP still use consumer grade motherboard for GnR?

#2377 25 days ago
Quoted from PinFever:

Just look how many new Godzillas are having issues.

WTF are you talking about? I've been following the GZ owners thread, and have seen very few issues...???

#2378 24 days ago

Look, a POTC with 8000 thousand plays, this made me laugh.
Surprisingly it has no mechanical issues, but the playfield is completely done for.
It looks less bad on the picture, but it has a deep crater where the ball drops, through the print, far in the wood.

Mirco’s wood and print is completely inferior to those if the WPC95 era. I don’t remember ever seeing a game in this bad shape on the inlanes.
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Around the slings also heavy chipping and pooling.
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#2379 24 days ago
Quoted from Faust:

Look, a POTC with 8000 thousand plays, this made me laugh.
Surprisingly it has no mechanical issues, but the playfield is completely done for.
It looks less bad on the picture, but it has a deep crater where the ball drops, through the print, far in the wood.
Mirco’s wood and print is completely inferior to those if the WPC95 era. I don’t remember ever seeing a game in this bad shape on the inlanes.
[quoted image]
[quoted image]
Around the slings also heavy chipping and pooling.
[quoted image]

Wonkas suffer at these drops too. I recommend the Cliffy inlane protectors for the drops on both games.

#2380 24 days ago

Having the ball drop directly onto the switch cutout is poor playfield design plain and simple. Stern has some games that do this too and it makes zero sense every time I see it. The ball should drop onto a square of extra thick mylar then roll over the switch area. Also, the switch hole should be surrounded by mylar even if the ball is not dropping directly onto it. 6000 plays or not, the hole in that playfield is the game designer's fault along with whoever decided not to install mylar in that area.

I've had games with drops like that and always put in the Cliffy switch protectors as close to day one as possible.

#2381 24 days ago

Yep bad design when the ball drops on the switch slot like that.. I've seen it wear all brands of 90s pins and newer sterns also.... so it just doesn't happen to jjp stuff. I always use a cliffy or mylar when a game is designed like that to prevent issues . Some game designers seem to do this more than others ex are pat l and john b seem.to do it a good bit.

#2382 24 days ago
Quoted from zaphX:

Wonkas suffer at these drops too. I recommend the Cliffy inlane protectors for the drops on both games.

I may be in the minority with this opinion but I HATE those inlane Cliffys, always affects the ball and often leads to ball hangs you have to nudge out.

#2383 24 days ago
Quoted from bobukcat:

I may be in the minority with this opinion but I HATE those inlane Cliffys, always affects the ball and often leads to ball hangs you have to nudge out.

I use them on all of my games... never had a single issue. You must not have installed them correctly?

#2384 24 days ago

hmmm so you guys say it’s more of a game design flaw than a playfield issue… I never realised ball drops before the switch on most other games.

#2385 24 days ago
Quoted from Faust:

hmmm so you guys say it’s more of a game design flaw than a playfield issue… I never realised ball drops before the switch on most other games.

Not sure this would be a design or playfield issue. As noted this game has 8000 plays so Guessing how many times it rolled down that right lane the ball likely dropped off that ramp over 20,000 plus times. A ball dropping on an spot of wood that many times could easily hammer a dimple into the paint or wood. A spot of mylar would help but its steel metal vs wood.

#2386 24 days ago
Quoted from 27dnast:

I use them on all of my games... never had a single issue. You must not have installed them correctly?

I've never installed them on any game but two locations I play at have them and they suck in my opinion. I won't even play the Dialed In with them because they have the tilt set super tight and like clockwork if I start to have a good game a ball will hand on one and I will end up tilting to get it free.

#2387 24 days ago
Quoted from bobukcat:

I may be in the minority with this opinion but I HATE those inlane Cliffys, always affects the ball and often leads to ball hangs you have to nudge out.

It depends on how you install them. I found that one orientation caused ball hangs and flipping 180 stopped them.

#2388 24 days ago

Have inlane cliffys 6 machines and only once I saw a ball hang up.

#2389 24 days ago
Quoted from zaphX:

It depends on how you install them. I found that one orientation caused ball hangs and flipping 180 stopped them.

I'm almost certain you've said which orientation before but I'm lazy and searching is hard... Slot up or down?

Jeff

#2390 24 days ago
Quoted from bobukcat:

I've never installed them on any game but two locations I play at have them and they suck in my opinion. I won't even play the Dialed In with them because they have the tilt set super tight and like clockwork if I start to have a good game a ball will hand on one and I will end up tilting to get it free.

They didn't install them correctly... that shouldn't happen

#2391 24 days ago
Quoted from Faust:

hmmm so you guys say it’s more of a game design flaw than a playfield issue… I never realised ball drops before the switch on most other games.

Yeah I never noticed or paid attention to this until I got Metallica Premium and the ball literally drops right on the switch. After that I started looking around my own game room and online and most games drop the ball on a flat spot covered by extra thick mylar rather than dropping directly on the switch. If you think about it the switch spot basically has two edges that are going to rapidly get beaten up compared to just having the ball drop on a nice flat, protected spot and rolling over the switch slot. Since then I tend to look at every game I see and there is a dramatic increase in damage over time on games with this design flaw.

#2392 24 days ago

Any one have issues with The Hobbit and pooling?

#2393 24 days ago
Quoted from bossk4hire:

Any one have issues with The Hobbit and pooling?

Not that I’ve heard of on Pinside.
It started with Pirates

#2394 24 days ago
Quoted from BMore-Pinball:

I tend to agree - but don't think may others do
JJP threw a PC in there
Stern has boards designed for a pinball machine

Having a full PC allows us to do a lot more than we could otherwise.

#2395 24 days ago
Quoted from Ashram56:

Some design choices in the control electronic of my DialedIn LE really baffles me. Compared to Stern or even Pinball Brothers (I just looked at the design of the Alien remake), I would on contrary argue that it's not designed for longevity, at least this portion.
If it were, they would not have used a consumer type PC motherboard with a consumer type PC graphics board, plugged in a vertical position. It will fail eventually. And no you just can't change the motherboard and the graphics board, the embedded Linux distribution is tied to the HW, so unless JJP provides SW maintenance to allow for support of newer motherboard and graphics board, or somebody hack their distribution, you will be toast if the motherboard dies (not to mention they likely have a custom sbios)

We do provide SW maintenance. Every game we've released (except GNR) is currently running on a newer OS than it was originally released with, if you do an update.

#2396 24 days ago
Quoted from bossk4hire:Any one have issues with The Hobbit and pooling?

My LE only has dimpling. Otherwise, super nice.

#2397 24 days ago
Quoted from dr_light:

Having a full PC allows us to do a lot more than we could otherwise.

Can you elaborate on that?
Stern's hardware doesn't seem to restrict them

#2398 24 days ago
Quoted from BMore-Pinball:

Can you elaborate on that?
Stern's hardware doesn't seem to restrict them

He "could" and it was a fair question until your apparently pointed comment... Crickets for you.

#2399 24 days ago
Quoted from Vespula:

He "could" and it was a fair question until your apparently pointed comment... Crickets for you.

No shit some are on a search and destroy JJP mission!

#2400 24 days ago

I think JJP did that on their own

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