Quoted from Haymaker:

Thats still no excuse. Manufacturing flaw. Take em back, sand em down, and reprint them with the art removed around the posts. Stern has stated that they do this with flawed playfields, so we know its possible. Also, did they send over every playfield they're ever going to make in the first batch? It sounds like that is false too, so why hasn't it changed on newer runs?

Quoted from Haymaker:

Thats still no excuse. Manufacturing flaw. Take em back, sand em down, and reprint them with the art removed around the posts. Stern has stated that they do this with flawed playfields, so we know its possible. Also, did they send over every playfield they're ever going to make in the first batch? It sounds like that is false too, so why hasn't it changed on newer runs?

Quoted from BMore-Pinball:

Not making an excuse, giving you a reason possibly why
Stern does it in house - Big difference from importing them from Germany
Freight is a huge cost, probably need to bring in a container full at a time
Lot of issues trying to export PF's back to Germany for a fix and reimport.
If it were my company, I would find someone stateside to fix the PF's and find a new stateside source going forward

Quoted from jimwe5t:

We are paying huge prices for JJP bad quality products and sub tier old license IPs. And we are paying the highest prices in the industry for those moronic privileges. Will we ever learn???

Quoted from Haymaker:

I know you're not making excuses my friend, I'm just saying theres no excuse for JJP to not be doing this. That could be one of their reasons, sure, but it is wholly unacceptable imo. I'm sure its expensive. Too bad for Mirco. He shouldn't have kept making junk playfields. He shouldn't have not just removed the art around the posts from the beginning. I'd have zero sympathy if he had to pay return freight and I would expect any manufacturer worth their salt to feel the same.

Quoted from jester523:

Without knowing all the details,, I still think it's a tough call. It's not like businesses have unlimited money. They might not have the cash flow to do that, or send everyone free playfields.
My playfield is pooling and they haven't handled the whole situation well, but at the same time, I don't think they have the financial ability to send everyone with pooling / peeling populated playfields to swap out.
It's easy to say solve it by making everyone right, but at the expense of bankrupting the company? Or putting them against the wall financially?
Again, I don't know the full situation, but without knowing it, and their financials, I can sympathize with them having a tough decision to make in a now more and more competitive market.

Quoted from jester523:

Without knowing all the details,, I still think it's a tough call. It's not like businesses have unlimited money. They might not have the cash flow to do that, or send everyone free playfields.
My playfield is pooling and they haven't handled the whole situation well, but at the same time, I don't think they have the financial ability to send everyone with pooling / peeling populated playfields to swap out.
It's easy to say solve it by making everyone right, but at the expense of bankrupting the company? Or putting them against the wall financially?
Again, I don't know the full situation, but without knowing it, and their financials, I can sympathize with them having a tough decision to make in a now more and more competitive market.

Quoted from jester523:

Without knowing all the details,, I still think it's a tough call. It's not like businesses have unlimited money. They might not have the cash flow to do that, or send everyone free playfields.
My playfield is pooling and they haven't handled the whole situation well, but at the same time, I don't think they have the financial ability to send everyone with pooling / peeling populated playfields to swap out.
It's easy to say solve it by making everyone right, but at the expense of bankrupting the company? Or putting them against the wall financially?
Again, I don't know the full situation, but without knowing it, and their financials, I can sympathize with them having a tough decision to make in a now more and more competitive market.

Quoted from jeffro01:

Couldn't possibly care less about the financial health of JJP. What I do care about is them shipping knowingly defective products, changing their warranty terms to insulate them from these defects, then not doing anything at all to correct said defects. The argument can't be "well if we make them put out a quality product they'll go bankrupt and we don't want that"...
Jeff

Quoted from jimwe5t:

We are paying huge prices for JJP bad quality products and sub tier old license IPs. And we are paying the highest prices in the industry for those moronic privileges. Will we ever learn???

Quoted from jimwe5t:

We are paying huge prices for JJP bad quality products and sub tier old license IPs. And we are paying the highest prices in the industry for those moronic privileges. Will we ever learn???

Quoted from PtownPin:

"We" .... I highly doubt you've spent anything on JJP games

Quoted from BMore-Pinball:

I have not either but I wish they would improve their quality and make me confident enough to buy one becuase I would like to do so

Quoted from jester523:

Without knowing all the details,, I still think it's a tough call. It's not like businesses have unlimited money. They might not have the cash flow to do that, or send everyone free playfields.
My playfield is pooling and they haven't handled the whole situation well, but at the same time, I don't think they have the financial ability to send everyone with pooling / peeling populated playfields to swap out.
It's easy to say solve it by making everyone right, but at the expense of bankrupting the company? Or putting them against the wall financially?
Again, I don't know the full situation, but without knowing it, and their financials, I can sympathize with them having a tough decision to make in a now more and more competitive market.

Quoted from underlord:

It’s not your place as a consumer to empathize with company shipping poor products. I’ll pay all the money. Send me my monies worth or lose out.

Quoted from jester523:

Yet I do. If everyone feels so strongly, why no class action yet? Chargebacks? Or some other legal avenue if people feel they are in the wrong (and I do believe they are in the wrong). Force them to pay, since they won't do it on their own? Complaining certainly won't change the current situation. I don't believe corporate or personal nobility is so prevalent that a company or a person would bankrupt themselves to "do the right thing."
To be truthful, I honestly don't care if they are in business or not, go bankrupt or thrive. Makes no difference to me. There are plenty of pinball machines and companies out there.
It annoys me that my playfield is pooling. I understand they won't do anything, and I moved on. Will do my best to correct and protect the one I have and I will never buy one of their machines again.

Quoted from BMore-Pinball:

I have not either but I wish they would improve their quality and make me confident enough to buy one becuase I would like to do so

Quoted from jester523:

Yet I do. If everyone feels so strongly, why no class action yet? Chargebacks? Or some other legal avenue if people feel they are in the wrong (and I do believe they are in the wrong). Force them to pay, since they won't do it on their own? Complaining certainly won't change the current situation. I don't believe corporate or personal nobility is so prevalent that a company or a person would bankrupt themselves to "do the right thing."
To be truthful, I honestly don't care if they are in business or not, go bankrupt or thrive. Makes no difference to me. There are plenty of pinball machines and companies out there.
It annoys me that my playfield is pooling. I understand they won't do anything, and I moved on. Will do my best to correct and protect the one I have and I will never buy one of their machines again.

Quoted from PtownPin:

"We" .... I highly doubt you've spent anything on JJP games

Quoted from brucipher:

I've been busting on Jim lately (since he is a troll), but I totally agree that the playfield issues and JJPs handling of the issues are terrible. I won't be buying from them until they get the issues sorted out and start treating their customers properly.

Quoted from Slash:

Does Mirco have naked photos of Jack?

Quoted from Slash:

I would love to know exactly what the business relationship is between Mirco and JJP. If you continually had a contractor deliver you a defective product you would firstly get them to remedy the situation at their cost and if it kept happening you would launch them. Instead JJP changes their warranty to protect the defective product that is supplied to them AND they continue to use the same supplier.
How does this make any business sense? If their contract for manufacture was so badly worded that Mirco can legally slither away from the issues then bad luck JJP. But why would you continue to use them game after game?
Does Mirco have a financial stake in JJP? Does Mirco have naked photos of Jack?

Quoted from jimwe5t:

Calling people names giving their opinions like “troll” is the favorite low on Pinside. Not going to call you the same, but glad we agree on the very poor treatment from JJP. We’re all in this together, so divisive name calling only plays into the hands of a low life company like JJP.

Quoted from Yelobird:

A better question as their entire product is Defined by the use of a playfield is where else in the world could they go to get thousands of playfields made in order to talk tough with Micro. I can’t think of a single company that would handle that volume or liability while partnering almost exclusively with JJP.

Quoted from Yelobird:

A better question as their entire product is Defined by the use of a playfield is where else in the world could they go to get thousands of playfields made in order to talk tough with Micro. I can’t think of a single company that would handle that volume or liability while partnering almost exclusively with JJP.

Quoted from LORDDREK:

As has been surmised before I believe the unholy relationship is deeper and Mirco has actual stake in the company. Otherwise something would have changed and the customer would never had been blamed for “doing something to the playfield.” That is just the type of insanity you see when clearly something is wrong but nothing can be done about it.

Quoted from Yelobird:

And their other market option is?

Quoted from MrBubbles:

I was lucky with my GnR CE with regards to this. But this thread has me questioning my pre-order of the limited Willy Wonka run they're doing this month. If I pay 11k for pin that I'm iffy on anyway, and it's not perfect, I'll really be pissed. Has anyone heard if the newest run of WW LEs will be using better playfields or will this just be a run using playfields that have sat around for 2 years.

Quoted from BMore-Pinball:

I have not either but I wish they would improve their quality and make me confident enough to buy one becuase I would like to do so

Quoted from PtownPin:

simple solution .... just buy a nice HUO game that u can inspect prior to purchase ....

Quoted from jimwe5t:

Calling people names giving their opinions like “troll” is the favorite low on Pinside. Not going to call you the same, but glad we agree on the very poor treatment from JJP. We’re all in this together, so divisive name calling only plays into the hands of a low life company like JJP.

Quoted from romulusx:

I wandered over to the Stern Godzilla thread for a couple of minutes and you were calling anybody who questioned the artwork trolls.Oh Jimwet here likes to come here and act like he cares and looking out for the buyers but believe me he’s just trolling.Check out some of his comments when somebody says anything negative about Stern.He literally freaks out!

Quoted from Zitt:

Just.. don't ... Give .. them... Any business. Even when the next title is your grail theme.
Most don't appear to have that kind of will power.
I do.

Quoted from Mike_J:

Both of you are on competing payrolls.

Quoted from jfh:

Ditto. Toy Story is one of my grail themes but no way I’m going to play playfield roulette for $10k.
I used to have a lot of hope and respect for JJP but there is too much anecdotal evidence that customer service and fixing what appears to be a significant systemic issue isn’t a concern for them. A few missed sales won’t matter but nothing will change if more people don’t vote with their wallets until things change.

Quoted from Yelobird:

A better question as their entire product is Defined by the use of a playfield is where else in the world could they go to get thousands of playfields made in order to talk tough with Micro. I can’t think of a single company that would handle that volume or liability while partnering almost exclusively with JJP.

Quoted from brucipher:

I don't consider troll name calling. It's a legitimate internet behavior, which you exhibit. You stir the pot about JJP in thread after thread after thread... It's like a personal vendetta and I think you get off on stirring that pot and getting the people who like JJP riled up. There's one thing about giving an opinion, and then there's another about doing it obsessively. Sorry if I hurt your feelings.

Quoted from jimwe5t:

Talking tough with Mirco is a fools game and an outright diversion. Mirco is not the issue. They are not the ones that put artwork under the post. Drill PF holes too large for the posts; improperly fitted over tightening at the JJP factory. Ordering too thick of clear coat. Why do you keep blaming Mirco thinking they are the ones in control of JJPs product??? Mirco is just a vendor and does what JJP tells them to do. How long are you JJP fanboys going to keep passing the buck and living in denial???
(Your talk of volume is also preposterous. You don’t, nor any person other than JJP know the numbers they are producing and its for sure not thousands. They can only output around 40 a week. They’ve been at this for a year making GNR. Let’s give them say 40 weeks they were actually to make that many, given parts shortages. That’s only 1600 GNRs, which is doubtful with all the smart people that have pulled their orders because of poor quality products, no warranty, bad customer service and part shortages, that JJP has even made not much more than around 1200 to be more accurate, given all the parameters. JJP is a tiny boutique company about the size of Spooky. Remember during that same time period, they only made 1,000 POTC.)

Quoted from Yelobird:

While you Do love to hear yourself talk, you still didn’t answer my question. Stop with all the babble and tough guy opinions. The issue is the Playfield, Mirco made the playfield not really a difficult equation. Wasn’t looking for a theoretical Symantec meaningless calculation of volume. You hate this company, your choice so feel free to move on?

Quoted from Tranquilize:

I can't believe there's still a debate.
- Bad playfields, check.
-Altering warranty so it's useless, check.
- Greedily screwing over distros with #s, check.
- Blaming the customer, check.
- Raising prices on a flawed product mid-production, check.
- Ghosting customers in need of support, check.
- Avoiding recognition of issues for years, check.
Pinsiders: "Uh, hey guys, do you think the new run is okay?"

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