Yeah, honestly I don't see why anyone would want to shit on your parade. My game has some pooling, and it does upset me, but at the end of the day it has 2500 games of enjoyment on it. I do think JJP is handling it like shit though.

Refer to post 1996 ^^^^^^

I agree, It all depends on your tolerance level
Some people can buy and play and not give 2 shits - more power to them!
For me, the fun doesn't outweigh having to look at that crap every time I play - especially with the availability of other great games without PF issues

and I am always open to buying a used game I can inspect down the line if I really want one that bad

I would add that anyone letting it get to the point of "having to look at that crap" implies they aren't willing, won't or can't put in the time the pin may require to prevent, inspect, stabilize and potentially fix anything that comes up.
Anyone that has 1000+ plays without it "looking like crap" didn't get there just by only playing it. They put in the time with eyes wide open using all the great experience and information gathered by the GnR owners & dedicated community here on pinside over the last year.

I've said it before, the Risk vs. Reward experience is in the DNA of this game. Definitely not for everyone, which I believe is your point, and so I agree with you on that.

I'm ramping up to buy my second NIB and I still want a GNR badly, but I just refuse to buy one with these issues and the way they treat their customers. Most likely Stern will be getting my money again

I'm guessing this is all driven by resale value? I'm not knocking you, but I think the root cause of everyone's angst over these playfield issues comes down to dollars and cents.

Nope. Show me a JJP that's not selling for more than the original MSRP.

What is the current batch of JJP GnR looking like? I have an invoice at the old price, but haven't paid it yet...Bought GZLE instead but thinking maybe I'll replace my DICE with GnRLE.

Dialed In, which is crazy because it's a much better game than WoZ, Hobbit, Wonka (I can't speak for GnR).

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Do you really think this would be the case? It would be exactly the same whether it's JJP or Stern.

When this question comes up I always think to myself, have you played it? Do you like GNR music?
If you've never played it that should be the first thing you do on location somewhere, and if you don't like GNR music I'm not sure you'll ever really love this pin especially with the maintenance that it does require. That's the way I feel about iron maiden. If GNR had been released in all its glory with iron maiden as a theme I don't care how great it is I wouldn't buy it.

So anyway onto your question.... And my opinion....
It's a huge difference from the first batch during the spring of this year. There's a combination of many things such as the knowledge of what was contributing to the problems, improved processes in production at JJP, etc.
But we're one year later from launch now, thousands of these have been shipped and the community is really embraced and experienced turning the lemons into lemonade through trial and error and troubleshooting.
JJP monitors this community and It's proven by changes in their production line, so as much hate as there is from some people they do get credit for improving their production processes to mitigate the problems and as a result I think it's gotten pretty quiet from GNR owners that have received product after around July time frame. Step still need to be taken, post torques still need to be checked, Maybe swap out some posts add some PETG washers, the normal stuff you'll read on the owner's thread in the key posts. Etc etc
I'm not saying you can just expect to take it out of the box and play it forever And have it retain it to museum quality, but you can take it out of the box and enjoy playing it immediately And if you care you can put the effort towards doing preventive maintenance in the beginning, or take the approach where you are inspecting regularly and resolving any issues that develop before they become a real problem.

Your head's in the sand if you think GNR is not going to be a little higher maintenance, but risk versus reward, it's an awesome pin. As dirty harry once said, a man's got to know his limitations. We have owners that have taken these steps and are thousands of plays in with no further issues.

If you don't care about your playfield you can play it like you stole it And live happily ever after. If you want to do your part to keep your play field as beautiful as possible You'll either have to do the work yourself or pay someone to do it.
The last option that is often discussed is that the GNR run is completing at the end of summer 2022. I believe they're currently taking orders for spare play fields and spare upper play fields so that may fit into your contingency plan in the distant future when this pin is worth double or more what you paid for it if you can include a new play field...
Could be considered insurance, or just a smart investment for about 700 bucks. Especially if you have a CE.

If everything else wasn't selling crazy high, you might have some smidge of a point, but I think you're missing the point.

Thanks for the detailed response! Yes, I've played the CE and LE. It is certainly one of the most beautiful pins out there. I'm not a huge GnR fan, for instance during Live and Let Die, I wish it were Paul McCartney singing. Definitely like them. It is a really good game from the limited time I've had on it. I’m not that concerned about the playfield at this point, been there, done that with POTCs, and with the backup playfield option. I’ll probably go for it and take the usual precautions.

GNRLEs can be found under 10k, MSRP is 10,500

Yet over a thousand were sold at 9500 MSRP. Likely more.

Splitting hairs there, the point being is you can now buy a used one cheaper than new.

In that case I’ll take two!

You just missed one for $9800

You win the prize.
I knew someone would fall for that subtle but important detail in zaphX intentional wording when I read it.

The "original MSRP" is $9500. Keyword: original. The difference between being right or wrong .

Haha, well I guess technically we’re both wrong as you can easily find DIs under “original” MSRP.

Could not care any less about resale value

What I care about is my sanity - and looking at a pooling, peeling, cracking PF every time I go to play the game would drive me nuts
I am not OCD but just can't deal with a PF falling apart with ZERO manufacturer support

Agreed! A word to the wise. Don’t anyone kid themselves, at these insanely high JJP MSRP prices, poor quality drives everyone crazy. And yes, JJP machines don’t hold value worth a ding dong. WOZ is difficult to sell, if anyone knows it’s history. Hobbit is so lackluster I know many distributors had to discount it to get rid of inventory. DI is so full of mechs that stop working over time, knowledgeable people run or ask for heavy discounts. The next 3 have JJP apologist trying to shill their used games hiding the best they can all the PF defects, along with many other issues. Many wise buyers in the second hand market now know there are huge reasons JJP abandoned warranties. Been there done that and it’s quite unnerving to have all kinds of money tied up in JJP lemons. Get out of the JJP mess now, while there are still suckers out there that don’t realize all this yet and the market cools down. When people start vacationing away from home again, JJP lemons are going to tank even more value wise.

WTF are you talking about? I've owned Dialed In for 4 years and my mechs all work fine. I've followed the DI Owners thread for years and the issues are pretty minimal. You are such an anti-JJP troll.

Complete denial and name calling doesn’t evade the facts. The list is huge of failed drones, bob’s arcade under station pop up stops working. Quantum theater mech issues galore. Phone LEDs & screen stop working. Bob the builder trapping ball behind mech issues and stops going back and forth. Betty’s diverter arm stops working properly. The list goes on and on. You were lucky with little issues.

Do you think we are in a bubble? How long til it pops?

I task you to work through the owners threads of all games (from all manufacturers) within the last 10 years and compile the number of issues by game (please also include the issue and number of people who had that specific issue). Then we can have some real data to support your claims. Thank you.

Very good questions. Once the economy faces all the coming hyperinflation, with unequal wages, watch out.

That would be an interesting but timely task to pursue. JJP threads are so loaded with real world pinball problems. Look no further than JJP, they know the negative data so well, they won’t honor warranties any longer. Along with a lack of JJP customer support. That is the biggest telltale data of all!

Go away C.S

Every time... Falling apart... My Sanity.... Drive me nuts... Can't deal....

But...

I'm not ocd..

Over exaggeration, yes, drama queen, a bit maybe.

The reality is that it's completely manageable for most, but for you, sir, you can't see that so this pin is definitely NOT for you. Glad you know it. Props for that.

JJP may have not fixed the Micro PF issues, but they did raise the price on both Wonka & GNR LE to $11K. And you know who’s fault that is right?

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This is wrong. I have an ECLE with all the Gouveia mods, and I'm pretty sure I could sell just his mods for 2k. The machine is rock solid (after replacing all the lights twice within the first year back in 2014), and there are no mechanical or electrical problems at all. That's ancient history at this point.

(And yes...the playfield is still perfect as well!)

Any owners have chipping or pooling issues with their WOZ? I don't remember having any problems when I owned it.

None.

Well, just put the OZ PF in a GNR. Problem Solved

I now have GNR’s in stock if anyone is interested PM me.

You can't; you'll offend all the homophobic GNR fans.

I don't get it, they were Mirco also.

I believe he has “upgraded” the process since WoZ

This thread has me worried for my incoming Wonka. Snagged one from the new run. How many Wonka owners are not experiencing issues?

None of the new run has been delivered yet, if it’s a game you really like I wouldn’t worry about it too much, chances are you’ll get a good one and if not, there is fixes for it. You’ll get your money back or close to it when/if you decide to sell.

Distro thinks 1 to 2 months for delivery.

This is not the thread you're looking for.

Salesman of the year selling the same brand leaky boat to the people that are under water in it

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I heard a rumor that JJP will let you purchase a brand new playfield at cost. Is this true or only a rumor?

Yep here is the proof.

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So you’re thinking hyperinflation will cause pin prices to fall? Interesting

Come on, that’s just plain silly. It’s the fact that hyperinflation might create such an out of reach ceiling for most people that prices actually do come down, because fewer sales during inflationary times. When supply increases via stagnate sales, prices naturally come down. Law of supply and demand. Or the money supply is re-evaluated. Lack of fiat velocity during diminished buying power creates price softening.

From all the people I know, those not experiencing issues would be about zero.

PCprogrammer: Do you have little children? Willy Wonka is such a little child’s delight, besides the troublesome shooter it is for adults. My friend’s WW is nothing but trouble, but his little children squeal with joy over the little kiddie candy theme. It’s kind of like the “CandyLand” of kiddie pinball. Beware WW has many problematic issues to resolve and good luck working on them when it arrives. JJP fanboys love working on their machines as much as playing them is what a distributor told me. I prefer playing to being a JJP pinball mechanic and constant trouble shooter.

There were some issues with early WOZ playfields.