(Topic ID: 292889)

Why is JJP still making games with faulty playfields?

By PanzerFreak

5 months ago


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#1951 34 days ago
Quoted from jimwe5t:

PFreak this is complete BS and you know it. You’re only saying this to protect your purchase. You’ll never be honest with us about the ongoing saga. Quit trying to lure people into the JJP poor quality trap. Money doesn’t grow on trees you know and most of us don’t want to risk our hard earned money on crappy JJP products like you constantly do, to only sell them before your issues get worse.
If what you’re implying were true, then why doesn’t JJP reinstate an actual warranty to demonstrate they too have confidence the problem is fixed? JJP won’t, because they are not confident the issues are fixed. PFreak quit shilling for a low life company like JJP. We all know them for what they are, the worst pinball experience and company in existence.
After all their founder Jack says the PF issues are our fault. That should tell everyone to stay far away and spend their $10k to $13k with someone that has a warranty to protect our hard earned money. There are plenty of pinball companies that actually stand behind their products and don’t blame their customers. Boycott JJP until they do the honorable thing with a clear protective warranty and actually fix the PF issues.

What? PanzerFreak started this thread; he's far away from a JJP schill. He's just making an objective observation, that the frequency of bad playfield posts, images, and comments has dropped. Personally, I thought I saw a few examples from recent runs, but I don't recall all the different playfield manufacturing dates (which Mirco mysteriously stopped printing apparently...)

Agree with the rest of your comment. It's not a great sign when a manufacturer won't stand behind their product, provides a worst-in-industry warranty (among the main companies anyway), and Jersey Jack himself blamed customers for their faulty playfields.

-1
#1952 34 days ago
Quoted from Xelz:

What? PanzerFreak started this thread; he's far away from a JJP schill. He's just making an objective observation, that the frequency of bad playfield posts, images, and comments has dropped. Personally, I thought I saw a few examples from recent runs, but I don't recall all the different playfield manufacturing dates (which Mirco mysteriously stopped printing apparently...)
Agree with the rest of your comment. It's not a great sign when a manufacturer won't stand behind their product, provides a worst-in-industry warranty (among the main companies anyway), and Jersey Jack himself blamed customers for their faulty playfields.

Yes you’re right he started it, but now regrets doing so, that’s typical PFreak mentality, lol. Jack blames us the customers because he’s in panic mode it’s so bad at JJP and he can’t figure out how to pass the buck, so in his warped mind, blaming us is his only avenue it appears.

8D1AE4CE-0A7F-4446-8191-1D85784507B9 (resized).jpeg
#1953 33 days ago

When the head of a company straight out blames the consumer for an inferior product that’s enough for me. But clearly your mileage may vary…

#1954 33 days ago
Quoted from Vespula:

Have you played it? Do you like GnR music?

None of that has any bearing on this issue, the theme is completely irrelevant. The quality is shit, it's that simple. To make matters worse JJP modified it's warranty to reflect as such. What else do people have to see here...???

Oh and nope. Yes. Looks like an amazing PIN but nope, no remote desire to own another JJP no matter the theme. At least not NIB...

Jeff

#1955 33 days ago
Quoted from Xelz:

What? PanzerFreak started this thread; he's far away from a JJP schill...

Ha...new member much?

#1956 33 days ago

Just don't take any advice from the jjp nut-huggers. I used to love the company... USED TO.

#1957 33 days ago
Quoted from jeffro01:

But why? Taking a chance? It's a $10K+ purchase and "taking a chance" seems like a less than wise approach to something like that.
I sort of feel like JJP has adopted the Thomas Tusser quote as a company motto... "A fool and his money are soon parted"...
Jeff

Great question, it's not really losing 10k maybe what 2k if you playfield chips or pools. My wife asked for this pin I explained the issues with the playfield she said so what is it fun to play for you, it is for me. I have saved money like not many people l know. Started a IRA at 18 years old, have 3 defined pensions and 2 defined contribution plans. Saved like crazy my whole life. I will be dead in 15 years so why not? Should I have a u-haul with cash in it follow my hurst?

I would agree pinball is a very foolish way to spend money. Fun for me, I don't drink, gamble, or smoke. I have terrible habit of wanting and buying pinball machines that I could most likely sell for more then I paid. Do you think it is foolish for me to but a pinball machine?

#1958 33 days ago
Quoted from JohnTTwo:

Great question, it's not really losing 10k maybe what 2k if you playfield chips or pools. My wife asked for this pin I explained the issues with the playfield she said so what is it fun to play for you, it is for me. I have saved money like not many people l know. Started a IRA at 18 years old, have 3 defined pensions and 2 defined contribution plans. Saved like crazy my whole life. I will be dead in 15 years so why not? Should I have a u-haul with cash in it follow my hurst?
I would agree pinball is a very foolish way to spend money. Fun for me, I don't drink, gamble, or smoke. I have terrible habit of wanting and buying pinball machines that I could most likely sell for more then I paid. Do you think it is foolish for me to but a pinball machine?

that's how you see it, and than yes, go for it, simple as that

#1959 33 days ago
Quoted from JohnTTwo:

Great question, it's not really losing 10k maybe what 2k if you playfield chips or pools. My wife asked for this pin I explained the issues with the playfield she said so what is it fun to play for you, it is for me. I have saved money like not many people l know. Started a IRA at 18 years old, have 3 defined pensions and 2 defined contribution plans. Saved like crazy my whole life. I will be dead in 15 years so why not? Should I have a u-haul with cash in it follow my hurst?
I would agree pinball is a very foolish way to spend money. Fun for me, I don't drink, gamble, or smoke. I have terrible habit of wanting and buying pinball machines that I could most likely sell for more then I paid. Do you think it is foolish for me to but a pinball machine?

Well seen that way, that definitely does change the perspective, and I can understand your point of view, so yeah, go ahead and enjoy the pin.

Cheers

10
#1960 33 days ago
Quoted from JohnTTwo:

Great question, it's not really losing 10k maybe what 2k if you playfield chips or pools. My wife asked for this pin I explained the issues with the playfield she said so what is it fun to play for you, it is for me. I have saved money like not many people l know. Started a IRA at 18 years old, have 3 defined pensions and 2 defined contribution plans. Saved like crazy my whole life. I will be dead in 15 years so why not? Should I have a u-haul with cash in it follow my hurst?
I would agree pinball is a very foolish way to spend money. Fun for me, I don't drink, gamble, or smoke. I have terrible habit of wanting and buying pinball machines that I could most likely sell for more then I paid. Do you think it is foolish for me to but a pinball machine?

Translation: life is short, have fun. Wisdom increases as your time left decreases. Try to learn from the old folks and keep things in perspective. Share truth that helps. Live and let live . Minimize regrets. Don't sweat the small stuff.... Peace, love, and.... pinball.

#1961 32 days ago
Quoted from Vespula:

Translation: life is short, have fun. Wisdom increases as your time left decreases. Try to learn from the old folks and keep things in perspective. Share truth that helps. Live and let live . Minimize regrets. Don't sweat the small stuff.... Peace, love, and.... pinball.

All true... but also my tolerance for aggravation, stupidity, poor quality shit decreases as I age ... henceforth my avoidance of buying JJP games

#1962 32 days ago
Quoted from BMore-Pinball:

All true... but also my tolerance for aggravation, stupidity, poor quality shit decreases as I age ... henceforth my avoidance of buying JJP games

Lol. Fair enough.
Risk vs. reward!

#1963 27 days ago
Quoted from JohnTTwo:

Great question, it's not really losing 10k maybe what 2k if you playfield chips or pools. My wife asked for this pin I explained the issues with the playfield she said so what is it fun to play for you, it is for me. I have saved money like not many people l know. Started a IRA at 18 years old, have 3 defined pensions and 2 defined contribution plans. Saved like crazy my whole life. I will be dead in 15 years so why not? Should I have a u-haul with cash in it follow my hurst?
I would agree pinball is a very foolish way to spend money. Fun for me, I don't drink, gamble, or smoke. I have terrible habit of wanting and buying pinball machines that I could most likely sell for more then I paid. Do you think it is foolish for me to but a pinball machine?

That’s winner talk. We’ll have none of that Mister. Think of all the poor deadbeats who’re depending on you to die on a stack of cash…

Selfish.

Now if those pins increase in value; Well. They’ll outlive you and the deadbeats. Sweet sweet finale.

#1964 27 days ago
Quoted from JohnTTwo:

I would agree pinball is a very foolish way to spend money.

I disagree ... there are very few entertainment items that have high resale value. Even if things went back to "normal" in pinball, you wouldn't lose much on a machine ... and chances are that machine would have provided you with hours of entertainment.

Of course, you could argue that blowing money on entertainment is foolish, but the purpose of life isn't to piss away every waking moment accumulating cash. I did that for a couple of years doing some freelance work and was one miserable prick afterwards . I made a *lot* but had ZERO time to do anything fun. It taught me a lesson at a relatively young age that has served me well .

#1965 24 days ago

Interesting... looks like JJP is installing rubber washers under the sling posts on this most recent run of Wonkas.

Screen Shot 2021-09-27 at 10.43.20 AM (resized).pngScreen Shot 2021-09-27 at 10.43.31 AM (resized).png

#1966 24 days ago

.

11
#1967 24 days ago

Yes, let's keep putting bandaids on the cancer that is those playfields

#1968 24 days ago
Quoted from JohnTTwo:

Great question, it's not really losing 10k maybe what 2k if you playfield chips or pools. My wife asked for this pin I explained the issues with the playfield she said so what is it fun to play for you, it is for me. I have saved money like not many people l know. Started a IRA at 18 years old, have 3 defined pensions and 2 defined contribution plans. Saved like crazy my whole life. I will be dead in 15 years so why not? Should I have a u-haul with cash in it follow my hurst?
I would agree pinball is a very foolish way to spend money. Fun for me, I don't drink, gamble, or smoke. I have terrible habit of wanting and buying pinball machines that I could most likely sell for more then I paid. Do you think it is foolish for me to but a pinball machine?

Okay so for one, the foolish comment was in reference to paying five figures for an item that's defective OUT OF THE BOX... It had nothing to do with pinball in general and I absolutely do not consider pinball a foolish spend in any way, it's one of the few things that you can buy/use and at least currently likely make money as a result. Don't conflate the two. Also, I don't really care how much you've saved or whatever, it's completely irrelevant in this discussion.

The point here is, and remains, JJP is putting out a knowingly defective product and has made it clear via their warranty changes and complete indifference to this issue they have zero interest in correcting. Why? Because people keep buying their games and just "dealing with it". To me that's certifiably insane. However, all of that being said, it's your money and I'm not here to tell anyone how to spend their money but I am here to openly provide my opinion of that should anyone chose to share it with the world.

JJP is going to find itself in litigation if it keeps up this BS and judging by their track record either they think they're immune to litigation or genuinely think they can skirt this issue so long as they continue to hit perceived home runs on theme/design. Odd strategy...

Jeff

#1969 24 days ago
Quoted from DerGoetz:

Yes, let's keep putting bandaids on the cancer that is those playfields

yup - new buyers have no room to complain

#1970 24 days ago
Quoted from megadeth2600:

I disagree ... there are very few entertainment items that have high resale value. Even if things went back to "normal" in pinball, you wouldn't lose much on a machine ... and chances are that machine would have provided you with hours of entertainment.
Of course, you could argue that blowing money on entertainment is foolish, but the purpose of life isn't to piss away every waking moment accumulating cash. I did that for a couple of years doing some freelance work and was one miserable prick afterwards . I made a *lot* but had ZERO time to do anything fun. It taught me a lesson at a relatively young age that has served me well .

I have done some mission work and buying pins over feeding starving kids is not a good use of money is what I was thinking, I love buying and playing pins.

#1971 24 days ago

I've been considering a Wonka LE from what is likely the final run. However, with it being a small run there's likely no chance of washer and post combinations to be tested over months as with GNR. JJP has one chance to get this final Wonka run right and if there's other sling posts or others not in the pictures above having issues there's no additional run to improve upon it.

#1972 24 days ago
Quoted from BMore-Pinball:

yup - new buyers have no room to complain

Complaints are pretty much extinct on the GnR owners thread... If you're still waiting in line for your GNR you ordered last year, or you're a new order, and you don't know what you're buying by now then your head is stuck in the sand.

#1973 24 days ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

I've been considering a Wonka LE from what is likely the final run. However, with it being a small run there's likely no chance of washer and post combinations to be tested over months as with GNR. JJP has one chance to get this final Wonka run right and if there's other sling posts or others not in the pictures above having issues there's no additional run to improve upon it.

I can tell you I have a Wonka built Oct 2019 and it’s still perfect!

#1974 23 days ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

I've been considering a Wonka LE from what is likely the final run. However, with it being a small run there's likely no chance of washer and post combinations to be tested over months as with GNR. JJP has one chance to get this final Wonka run right and if there's other sling posts or others not in the pictures above having issues there's no additional run to improve upon it.

Or they could just fix the problems with art not adhering and soft clear coat instead.

#1975 23 days ago
Quoted from John_I:

Or they could just fix the problems with art not adhering and soft clear coat instead.

As good as that idea sounds, I’m pretty sure it’s not on the table.

#1976 23 days ago
Quoted from DerGoetz:

Yes, let's keep putting bandaids on the cancer that is those playfields

I’d have to bet JJP is ready to dump Mirco. When you are doing maneuvers like this gotta be tiring for the company. I’m guessing they are either trapped in an agreement with Mirco, they don’t want to change and past production to a new PF mfg, or there is no other cost effective options.

JJP just added a second line for Wonka, I wouldn’t be surprised if they are also building a spray booth to make their own PFs for the next model

#1977 23 days ago
Quoted from thechakapakuni:

I’d have to bet JJP is ready to dump Mirco. When you are doing maneuvers like this gotta be tiring for the company. I’m guessing they are either trapped in an agreement with Mirco, they don’t want to change and past production to a new PF mfg, or there is no other cost effective options.
JJP just added a second line for Wonka, I wouldn’t be surprised if they are also building a spray booth to make their own PFs for the next model

If Jack believes that playfield chipping is the customer's fault, then he wouldn't see a reason to drop Mirco. Why fix what you think ain't broke?

That's the problem with blaming the customer - how can buyers assume that problems will be addressed if the company fails to hold themselves or their suppliers accountable?

#1978 23 days ago

I expect JJP to deny the issue. But all the washers tells me they agree it’s an issue, they just won’t talk about it outside the company. I’m pretty sure those are extra costs, research, and work they don’t want to deal with. That and the bad PR. Time will tell, but if they don’t dump Mirco on the next build, I’m pretty sure they are going to lose a lot of sales

#1979 23 days ago
Quoted from thechakapakuni:

I expect JJP to deny the issue. But all the washers tells me they agree it’s an issue, they just won’t talk about it outside the company. I’m pretty sure those are extra costs, research, and work they don’t want to deal with. That and the bad PR. Time will tell, but if they don’t dump Mirco on the next build, I’m pretty sure they are going to lose a lot of sales

But they'll sure "jack" those prices up....

#1980 23 days ago
Quoted from NPO:

But they'll sure "jack" those prices up....

Punny!!

#1981 23 days ago

Jacked up prices for Jacked up playfields

-2
#1982 23 days ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

I've been considering a Wonka LE from what is likely the final run. However, with it being a small run there's likely no chance of washer and post combinations to be tested over months as with GNR. JJP has one chance to get this final Wonka run right and if there's other sling posts or others not in the pictures above having issues there's no additional run to improve upon it.

Rest assured that mess of a company JJP has not fixed anything on their WWs. Another poor PF will surely be coming from the tiny factory that can only produce less than 50 games a week, which Stern does twice that in a day. But when you have the Oompa Loompa’s working on it, what do you expect? Raised the price $1500 for what? Suckers will pay anything, but honestly, one of the best machines in the small choice tiny catalog of JJP, but a lacking game none the less. Unless you don’t mind not really seeing the ball much of the game, as it disappears behind the TV screen. Plus it is a tough shooter. PFreak, save your money, don’t risk more on such poor quality JJP products. You’re going to have a hard enough time selling your GNR, after boredom sets in seeing the same songs over and over again for the umpteenth time. Heard WW is on the line now, because of no parts for GNR. So they’ve run out of drumsticks and tiny cheap LEDs??? Not many other parts to that machine. Lol

#1983 23 days ago
Quoted from thechakapakuni:

Jacked up prices for Jacked up playfields

Double the pun! Nice.

#1984 23 days ago
Quoted from JohnTTwo:

buying pins over feeding starving kids is not a good use of money

That's a valid point of course ... and I appreciate the clarification . I was being a bit selfish there.

One can do both though. If you have the means to buy NIB pins, well, pins in general these days, you certainly can donate cash to a GOOD charity to help out starving kids.

#1985 23 days ago

Anyone know what JJP next game will be? GNR is badass..

#1986 23 days ago
Quoted from pacman11:

Anyone know what JJP next game will be? GNR is badass..

Toy Story is what we've assumed is coming next.A Pat Lawlor design with his team.

-19
#1987 23 days ago
Quoted from romulusx:

Toy Story is what we've assumed is coming next.A Pat Lawlor design with his team.

Lawlor’s team consists of me, myself and I and reportedly TS is still not ready to go. He took several years on the problematic Dialed In. TS is no different. Heard he is finally going to hang it up after all this time. His games are like an old song writer that doesn’t have it any longer and his subpar efforts at JJP have been lackluster sales wise. He knew how to do some good games at one time, but that was long ago. Great fit for JJP! Lol

#1988 23 days ago
Quoted from Xelz:

If Jack believes that playfield chipping is the customer's fault, then he wouldn't see a reason to drop Mirco.

Except I highly doubt Jack is making any decisions like that anymore since he "sold" the company

#1989 23 days ago

JJP can't fire Mirco...Mirco is invested into JJP and I would assume has a minority ownership stake. Hence the smoke show from Jack. Jack made a deal with the devil to save his company, and those birds have come home to roost.

#1990 23 days ago
Quoted from JodyG:

JJP can't fire Mirco...Mirco is invested into JJP and I would assume has a minority ownership stake. Hence the smoke show from Jack. Jack made a deal with the devil to save his company, and those birds have come home to roost.

I've heard this discussed as a rumor... is there any documented proof that Mirco is an investor?

#1991 23 days ago
Quoted from thechakapakuni:

Jacked up prices for Jacked up playfields

I’m so happy I haven’t been reading about any bad playfields lately.

Delivery in 2 weeks!!!

#1992 23 days ago
Quoted from JohnTTwo:

I’m so happy I haven’t been reading about any bad playfields lately.
Delivery in 2 weeks!!!

That's one hell of a quote... Lately... LOL... So when your game shows up with half-dollar size washers that make it look like the POS it is I'm sure you'll be just thrilled... Then again, I doubt you'll tell us as that would be pretty embarrassing to admit you were wrong despite a mountain of warnings advising you otherwise.

Jeff

#1993 23 days ago
Quoted from jeffro01:

That's one hell of a quote... Lately... LOL... So when your game shows up with half-dollar size washers that make it look like the POS it is I'm sure you'll be just thrilled... Then again, I doubt you'll tell us as that would be pretty embarrassing to admit you were wrong despite a mountain of warnings advising you otherwise.
Jeff

Yeah it is pretty simple. If the game shows up with washers under the posts, the underlying problem is not fixed. This problem has been "fixed" many times only to turn out that nothing has changed. I stumbled on a thread from ten months ago talking about a fix. Turns out quality control testing doesn't do much good I guess. How did this work out:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/new-mirco-quality-control-procedures

#1994 23 days ago
Quoted from jeffro01:

That's one hell of a quote... Lately... LOL... So when your game shows up with half-dollar size washers that make it look like the POS it is I'm sure you'll be just thrilled... Then again, I doubt you'll tell us as that would be pretty embarrassing to admit you were wrong despite a mountain of warnings advising you otherwise.
Jeff

Like my wife said "will you have fun playing it" I love looking at perfect stuff and my OCD can be bad, I am mentally just looking at this like a toy.

-2
#1995 23 days ago
Quoted from JodyG:

JJP can't fire Mirco...Mirco is invested into JJP and I would assume has a minority ownership stake. Hence the smoke show from Jack. Jack made a deal with the devil to save his company, and those birds have come home to roost.

Thank you Reverend Wright?

#1996 23 days ago
Quoted from jimwe5t:

Lawlor’s team consists of me, myself and I and reportedly TS is still not ready to go. He took several years on the problematic Dialed In. TS is no different. Heard he is finally going to hang it up after all this time. His games are like an old song writer that doesn’t have it any longer and his subpar efforts at JJP have been lackluster sales wise. He knew how to do some good games at one time, but that was long ago. Great fit for JJP! Lol

Thank you C.S

IMG_2071 (resized).PNG
#1997 23 days ago

I heard new game will be teased later this year, not built till 2022.

#1998 23 days ago
Quoted from mtp78:

I heard new game will be teased later this year, not built till 2022.

Makes sense since they announced the GNR run is over end of summer 2022, and the spare playfield orders commence.. (for those that dont know they are $499 lower and $119 for the upper playfield)

#1999 23 days ago
Quoted from Vespula:

Makes sense since they announced the GNR run is over end of summer 2022, and the spare playfield orders commence.. (for those that dont know I think they are $499 lower and $199 for the upper playfield)

$119, not $199

#2000 22 days ago

Unbelievable that anyone in their right mind would consider paying for a faulty product that would and should be covered under any other companies warranty. If Stern tried this terrible policy, everyone would be up in arms and call for a boycott. Yet the JJP apologist, just roll over and take it. Is any pinball machine made by anyone worth groveling before a manufacturer, because you so badly want their pinball fix??? Pathetic people, if that’s the case.

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