(Topic ID: 292889)

Why is JJP still making games with faulty playfields?

By PanzerFreak

2 years ago


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#1751 2 years ago

The game is awesome and I love playing it, but I will be pissed to the ends of the earth if(when?) it chips.

#1752 2 years ago
Quoted from HEAD_boss_HOG:

D'accord. J'ai mis plus de sept cents jeux sur mon LE, et honnêtement, j'ai trop de plaisir à m'inquiéter de manquer un demi-pouce d'art sur le PF, ou de mettre en commun par les messages.
La façon dont je le vois, c'est que si vous aimez le flipper et que vous aimez GNR , alors ce jeu vous grattera les démangeaisons. avec cet état d'esprit, il est difficile de rester concentré sur les problèmes du PF, à moins qu'un énorme morceau d'art ne soit parti du centre du PF, que je n'ai encore vu de personne.
nous devrions tous nous rappeler de nous épanouir dans la grandeur de pouvoir jouer à ces jeux géniaux. plus vous jouez, moins vous vous souciez d'un meuble entaillé, d'un petit morceau de vernis transparent ou d'une accumulation de vernis transparent à peine visible. Je suppose que je suis dérangé, mais honnêtement, il y a tellement de choses à faire et tellement de plaisir à jouer à n'importe quel jeu que tout dommage pourrait être négligé.
nous avons tous joué à des jeux qui étaient usés ou qui présentaient des dommages majeurs aux PF. Ils sont toujours amusants sans aucun doute. Je posséderais n'importe quel jeu avec un PF endommagé pour être sûr, tant qu'il n'est pas gênant de jouer, ou un GASH directement dans le PF d'un achat de NIB .
Amusez-vous les gars, si vous ne l'êtes pas, alors vous pourriez passer à côté !

just to tell you not to tire yourself with that kind of talk. Those who are there (always the same) will always be reluctant to accept that it is not that bad and that others can do with it and have fun anyway. The luck that we have that the pinball industry innovates to this point largely covers the small pf problem which I am sure will end up being solved. I have already tried to give my opinion once or twice on the subject and in the end nothing constructive, always the same thing. These guys must be single, it's not possible "darling I took two kilos" ... "you release" .. "but yet we both have fun" ... "you cost me too much" loool . Enjoy your game. I am still looking forward to mine.

#1753 2 years ago
Quoted from screaminr:

I totally agree with you that people shouldn't brush aside the issues but I also understand why some people just want to play the game and enjoy it .
I have a game on order and I'm concerned about the Playfield issues , but I will take preventative measures to protect the playfield .

This game is a unicorn .
.

Totally agree. That said, if you don't like GnR music even a little, to me, that's a deal breaker. I played iron maiden on location, I can't play it because of the zero connection or appreciation and basic dislike of the music.....I never listened, liked, or cared about that band or really any of that crowd. Those kids were the ones nerds like me stayed away from, a bit older than me and generally in with the cops and in and out of jail.

So If this pin had been same everything but iron maiden from Jersey Jack I would never have cared a bit. Fortunately, they released this pin from a band I was "into" with appetite and patience and have been to their concerts in that tour also... I feel fortunate to enjoy the music on this pin to solidify the experience.

Just to be fair I'm not picking on iron maiden It was just an example I can give you a list of other bands that would not have mattered to me. I picked that one because it is a popular pin , has a pretty good following just like GnR but it's not my cup I tea.

#1754 2 years ago
Quoted from screaminr:

Because of covid they had an extra year to polish all the code

I don’t buy that. I’d hate to imagine what Desert Demolition would look like minus one year.

#1755 2 years ago
Quoted from screaminr:

This game is a unicorn .
Even future jjp games won't compare to this .
1. Main reason is because Slash wanted this game made and put everything into it . When else would you get Gibson and Fender on the same game , along with a Paul McCartney song and all the AV from their current concert tour .
There was no asset they didn't have access to .
2 . Because of covid they had an extra year to polish all the code , the rules , animations and light shows .
3 . Eric Meunier designed an awesome game with the use of guitar necks , drumsticks , high hats and incorporated all sorts of musical features into rock and roll pin with a great layout .
4 . Jean - Paul de Win is the best in the world at animating pinball games .
So if you like the theme , the rules , the layout , take some preemptive steps and enjoy the game .
You won't see another one like it for a long , long time , if ever .

Understood, like I said - I get it, the game is fun.
But for me the fun factor doesn't out weigh the PF lottery you have to enter for $10 grand
Down the line if JJP can consistently improve Quality and Customer service, I will give it a consideration - until they have the track record, I am out

#1756 2 years ago
Quoted from Vespula:

Totally agree. That said, if you don't like GnR music even a little, to me, that's a deal breaker. I played iron maiden on location, I can't play it because of the zero connection or appreciation and basic dislike of the music.....I never listened, liked, or cared about that band or really any of that crowd. Those kids were the ones nerds like me stayed away from, a bit older than me and generally in with the cops and in and out of jail.
So If this pin had been same everything but iron maiden from Jersey Jack I would never have cared a bit. Fortunately, they released this pin from a band I was "into" with appetite and patience and have been to their concerts in that tour also... I feel fortunate to enjoy the music on this pin to solidify the experience.
Just to be fair I'm not picking on iron maiden It was just an example I can give you a list of other bands that would not have mattered to me. I picked that one because it is a popular pin , has a pretty good following just like GnR but it's not my cup I tea.

you've got me pegged LOL. im a total iron maiden lover, and definitely I have a rap sheet. BUT....NO felonies. up the irons!

I also love GNR, but didnt really LOVE their music until i got the game. The game opened my eyes a bit, so I'm lucky

#1757 2 years ago
Quoted from Blackjacker:

I don’t buy that. I’d hate to imagine what Desert Demolition would look like minus one year.

I didn't think a mode could be worse than lightsaber battle, but Desert Demolition managed to pull it off.

#1758 2 years ago

i upvoted and agree but will buy the 500 dollar playfield . It sux ,yes and risky it has same issue if installed without outside source help which i probably would get to guarantee the same longevity as other older diamond plated oldies i have and have had over the years which is crazy techniques have not gotten better and stopped this BS but i guess they really don't build stuff like they used too

Quoted from yancy:

Cost aside, who wants a second shitty playfield if they haven't fixed the underlying issues? Won't it also fail shortly after install?

#1759 2 years ago
Quoted from Chuckwebster:

I didn't think a mode could be worse than lightsaber battle, but Desert Demolition managed to pull it off.

Have you guys played the updated mode? I think it is probably the second best album mode now.

Having to juggle turbo using the action button and making shots is fun. In that I know I am going to drain in a stupid way

#1760 2 years ago
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#1761 2 years ago
Quoted from glpinball:

[quoted image][quoted image]

You haven't fixed that yet?
Can't wait for the after pics...

#1762 2 years ago

Absolutely terrible. I will never by a JJP machine so long as these issues persist (nor a Mirco playfield).

My backyard SprayMax2K clear jobs will never do this. What happens with a "fingernail test" on these playfields?

That artwork looks really jagged too! Wonder what resolution it is printed at.

#1763 2 years ago
Quoted from Vespula:

You haven't fixed that yet?
Can't wait for the after pics...

Well I used up 20 washers the first go round so I had to order more. Then I will attempt a fix. In the meantime its a big jukebox.

#1764 2 years ago

“Why is JJP still making games with faulty playfields?”

Same reason a dog licks his balls.....because they can!

#1765 2 years ago
Quoted from glpinball:

[quoted image][quoted image]

Clear proof that oversized washers are not doing anything. Obviously the problem starts with the art not being adhered to the wood but it is that post movement that is doing the damage. Has anyone filled those oversized holes with something yet?

When those play fields finally start to get normal wear they are going to peel like a protective film off plexiglas…

#1766 2 years ago
Quoted from Blitzburgh99:

“Why is JJP still making games with faulty playfields?”
Same reason a dog licks his balls.....because they can!

Lmfao

#1767 2 years ago
Quoted from Blitzburgh99:

“Why is JJP still making games with faulty playfields?”
Same reason a dog licks his balls.....because they can!

dddd (resized).JPGdddd (resized).JPG
#1768 2 years ago

This is a disgrace! Never buying a JJP again. Well maybe I’ll buy a used one. If it’s the right price with washers already installed and no playfield issues. Toy Story eh? Pretty cool theme

#1769 2 years ago

Has anybody done a video of what it takes to bulletproof a JJP GNR? I see ball deflectors, cliffs, washers, thicker posts, stripper poles, etc. I know there was a key post but curious if somebody has video tapped it

16
#1770 2 years ago

Dude's got a washer the size of a quarter under the post and it's still wrinkling badly. There is no bulletproofing these games.

#1771 2 years ago
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#1772 2 years ago
Quoted from metallik:

Dude's got a washer the size of a quarter under the post and it's still wrinkling badly. There is no bulletproofing these games.

That's why I'm not trying to. Once it chips, the damage doesn't spread. That was true on POTC and Wonka too. So let it chip, then cover it, and you're done.

No this is not okay. It's just all we can do to work around it for now.

#1773 2 years ago
Quoted from zaphX:

That's why I'm not trying to. Once it chips, the damage doesn't spread. That was true on POTC and Wonka too. So let it chip, then cover it, and you're done

...and people called me crazy when I suggested scoring the art around the base of the posts with an Xakto knife. Sounds like the "accepted solution" is simply a more destructive version of that.

#1774 2 years ago
Quoted from metallik:

Dude's got a washer the size of a quarter under the post and it's still wrinkling badly. There is no bulletproofing these games.

Honestly, just opinion, But others have commented these black plastic washers are quite hard. Much harder than the PETG washers. Also it has a metal washer on top and it's been recommended to take that off. Third he didn't touch this so it was torqued by JJP. So there's quite a few factors that could have exacerbated the situation.

It'll probably go something like this, warm it up if needed, take it off, heat it, iron flat, after it cools put a clear PETG washer on it with the post and then tighten it just to snug. 1200 plays later still good as new. If you want to get into the cliffies or mylar you know that's just personal choice. But again everyone has more experience than I do on this I'm just regurgitating what you guys are saying that have dealt with this problem.

Anyway I'm sure someone has a couple buckets more of chum to throw in the water so let's get on with it... That's what this thread's all about ain't it?

#1775 2 years ago

I don't know what's worse, the issue itself or the fact people still continue to buy...??? At this point I'd argue if you buy a NIB JJP game then you have no room for complaining about anything as you should know by now what a piece of junk you just bought. My POTC CE, pooled/chipped, got a new unpopulated PF. Wonka CE, pooling but no chipping and didn't even try to get a new PF after what me and my distro had to go through on POTC. Won't buy another NIB JJP game again, period. It's abundantly clear their marriage to Micro has made it impossible for them to deliver a quality product, it's simply overpriced crap now. Buyer beware...

Jeff

#1776 2 years ago

I was hoping to buy another JJP pin, (I have a WOZECLE & POTCLE).

I won't be buying another JJP pin for a while. At this point, CGC is going to get my money. They make a quality product.

#1777 2 years ago

More and more glad I bought a SE. Still has issues but less posts = less issues

#1778 2 years ago

if you are going to take off the post with pooling i do recommend his post above saying warm it up first in that area

Quoted from Vespula:Honestly, just opinion, But others have commented these black plastic washers are quite hard. Much harder than the PETG washers. Also it has a metal washer on top and it's been recommended to take that off. Third he didn't touch this so it was torqued by JJP. So there's quite a few factors that could have exacerbated the situation.
It'll probably go something like this, warm it up if needed, take it off, heat it, iron flat, after it cools put a clear PETG washer on it with the post and then tighten it just to snug. 1200 plays later still good as new. If you want to get into the cliffies or mylar you know that's just personal choice. But again everyone has more experience than I do on this I'm just regurgitating what you guys are saying that have dealt with this problem.
Anyway I'm sure someone has a couple buckets more of chum to throw in the water so let's get on with it... That's what this thread's all about ain't it?

#1779 2 years ago
Quoted from Vespula:

Honestly, just opinion, But others have commented these black plastic washers are quite hard. Much harder than the PETG washers. Also it has a metal washer on top and it's been recommended to take that off. Third he didn't touch this so it was torqued by JJP. So there's quite a few factors that could have exacerbated the situation.
It'll probably go something like this, warm it up if needed, take it off, heat it, iron flat, after it cools put a clear PETG washer on it with the post and then tighten it just to snug. 1200 plays later still good as new. If you want to get into the cliffies or mylar you know that's just personal choice. But again everyone has more experience than I do on this I'm just regurgitating what you guys are saying that have dealt with this problem.
Anyway I'm sure someone has a couple buckets more of chum to throw in the water so let's get on with it... That's what this thread's all about ain't it?

Yeah, in this case, the fix caused more damage as you point out.

Also, the new washer has created pooling at distance where the ball may be able to come in contact with it = major chipping / damage... usually pooling is ok on a post, as it is only cosmetic.

Clear coat had obviously not cured enough... so the torque on that post/washer would be important.

#1780 2 years ago

Bigger washer = bigger area of damage. I think HEP had it right by adding a smaller washer underneath the post.

Wonder if there is solvent trapped due to inadequate flash off or too much product. Any smell when it chips?

#1781 2 years ago
Quoted from dr_nybble:

Any smell when it chips?

4202A906-212D-4E0C-B5CB-9417D6FF51CF.gif4202A906-212D-4E0C-B5CB-9417D6FF51CF.gif
25
#1782 2 years ago
Quoted from jeffro01:

I don't know what's worse, the issue itself or the fact people still continue to buy...??? At this point I'd argue if you buy a NIB JJP game then you have no room for complaining about anything as you should know by now what a piece of junk you just bought. My POTC CE, pooled/chipped, got a new unpopulated PF. Wonka CE, pooling but no chipping and didn't even try to get a new PF after what me and my distro had to go through on POTC. Won't buy another NIB JJP game again, period. It's abundantly clear their marriage to Micro has made it impossible for them to deliver a quality product, it's simply overpriced crap now. Buyer beware...
Jeff

I received a email from Jen at JJP last week telling me my game was almost ready to ship. I cancelled my order telling them that was because of the playfield issues and warranty changes. Their response? Silence not a word!

#1783 2 years ago

Hopefully puberty takes care of Chaka.

#1784 2 years ago
Quoted from TommyMc:

I received a email from Jen at JJP last week telling me my game was almost ready to ship. I cancelled my order telling them that was because of the playfield issues and warranty changes. Their response? Silence not a word!

You are not even close to the first to do that and they probably have a couple thousand on backorder.

So you were direct order.. what was your order date?
Guessing October.

#1785 2 years ago
Quoted from TommyMc:

I received a email from Jen at JJP last week telling me my game was almost ready to ship. I cancelled my order telling them that was because of the playfield issues and warranty changes. Their response? Silence not a word!

Will they refund your deposit?

#1786 2 years ago

Lmfao !

#1787 2 years ago
Quoted from Vespula:

Hopefully puberty takes care of Chaka.

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#1788 2 years ago
Quoted from BMore-Pinball:

Down the line if JJP can consistently improve Quality and Customer service, I will give it a consideration - until they have the track record, I am out

I agree, but they have literally done the opposite in terms of reassuring customers. They can't even be bothered to admit there is an issue, and for me that's reason enough to never purchase anything from them in the future.

I played Wonka and Dialed In at a league night last weekend, and really enjoyed them! Both incredibly beautiful games that shot like butter, but in terms of new games I outright refuse to put dollars in the pocket of a company whose spokesperson blames the customer for chipping playfields. To me, that is inexcusable, and really shows how out of touch they are. Jack promised customers this issue was behind them, and when proven it wasn't he blamed the customer. Its clear they have zero intention of getting better.

#1789 2 years ago
Quoted from TommyMc:

I received a email from Jen at JJP last week telling me my game was almost ready to ship. I cancelled my order telling them that was because of the playfield issues and warranty changes. Their response? Silence not a word!

#1790 2 years ago
Quoted from glpinball:

[quoted image][quoted image]

I recommend bare post to plastic washer contact as shown in my key post. All the "stacked" washer (metal on plastic) does is make the contact points of the edge of the plastic more rigid. The flex of the plastic or PETG washer is needed so it doesn't compress at the edges and actually has a micro thin flex toward the center of the post.

This is the method I have used which solved the pooling problem on my playfield 100% post 1600 plays from fix

12
#1791 2 years ago

Sucks that JJP hasn't been able to correct this issue on the end-product. What everyone needs to realize is that they've corrected the issue for themselves as a company.

How?

They amended their warranty and did so AFTER buyers locked into buying a game.

That, right there, is all you need to know. So, while we, as collectors, would like to *think* we have an idea of what's acceptable, JJP has made the final call.

At this point, you're fooling yourself if you think that some chipping or pooling is unacceptable. This all boils down to a risk assesment on the buyer's part, whether we like it or not. The only way this changes is if buyers stop paying for new games.

#1792 2 years ago
Quoted from jandrea95:

I played Wonka and Dialed In at a league night last weekend, and really enjoyed them! Both incredibly beautiful games that shot like butter, but in terms of new games I outright refuse to put dollars in the pocket of a company whose spokesperson blames the customer for chipping playfields.

Yup, that interview was mindblowing... their margins must be razor-thin.

-2
#1793 2 years ago
Quoted from 27dnast:

They amended their warranty and did so AFTER buyers locked into buying a game.
That, right there, is all you need to know.

Yes that does suck , but at least when people put their deposit down , JJP honoured it , and didn't cancel those people's pre-orders and raise the price , like STERN did .

#1794 2 years ago

July build. The rubber snapped and I had to replace it.

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14
#1795 2 years ago
Quoted from Izzy24:

July build. The rubber snapped and I had to replace it.
[quoted image][quoted image]

That's crazy the way the artwork just slides around with the clear and the clear looks soft as bubble gum. It is unimaginable at this point after a year of this same problem that they haven't removed the art under the posts and come up with a little harder clear formula. Not to mention this is the third game in a row. There is something fundamentally broken with their process and appears to be no effort to fix the actual problem.

#1796 2 years ago
Quoted from TommyMc:

I received a email from Jen at JJP last week telling me my game was almost ready to ship. I cancelled my order telling them that was because of the playfield issues and warranty changes. Their response? Silence not a word!

Unfortunately, since they still have customers willing to buy no matter what, they have no reason to change their attitude

The only other thing that could get them moving is legal action. I'm actually surprised that no one started one already, especially in the US (it would be more difficult in Europe, given the variety of legal rules).

#1797 2 years ago

What do you guys think of this possible band aid fix? The pinball life repair kit with two extra washers on the bottom. The extra washers keeps the black plastic ring off the playfield. The black plastic hides the damage. You can see in the pic there is just enough room to slide the plastic bag under it.

This is a temporary fix until the new playfields come out.

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#1798 2 years ago

Is this Slash wishing Stern made his GNR playfields?

https://www.instagram.com/p/CTdtbylHxPk/?utm_medium=copy_link

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#1799 2 years ago

Lol , Stern playfields are perfect

IMG_20210906_212034 (resized).jpgIMG_20210906_212034 (resized).jpg
#1800 2 years ago
Quoted from screaminr:

Lol , Stern playfields are perfect
[quoted image]

Yea you should see my stranger thing playfield, millions of dimples around the Center of the playfield

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