(Topic ID: 292889)

Why is JJP still making games with faulty playfields?

By PanzerFreak

7 months ago


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#1651 3 months ago
Quoted from RA77:

Seems crazy for any clear to be applied before any drilling or routing ?

Logic would stand that clear is a process that is done when the playfield is completed.

I would have thought so , but I'm no expert .
As far as I know Micro did The Hobbit playfields and they were sweet as , I wonder what they changed .

#1652 3 months ago

Maybe they did this so they can make more playfields as the demand is crazy, thus no time for settling of the clearcoat

The change is I think in the composition of the clearcoat formula also

#1653 3 months ago
Quoted from AMSNL:

As promised , here is the uncut playfield ,i have also from GNR/Wonka And these have the exact same issues,but I show the pirates as it’s easy r to show the faults (btw please don’t send me PM regarding these playfields)
The clear is rock solid this is how it should be , so the issue of the chipping is when it’s cut again and drilled. There is no clearcoat overlap on the drilled parts .
Then it gets another clearcoat that stacks around the drilled/cut area s and then polling happens as you can see the stacking of clearcoat in a few post above this one.
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

It may be that his printer can't handle holes and cutouts on the printing surface. Looks like a recipe for failure, that's for sure.

#1654 3 months ago
Quoted from AMSNL:

JJP also has a contract with mirco when he and his buddies invested money into JJP when they had lots of trouble in 2013-2014. Even if JJP wants out they can’t
And to make it worse for you all.... mirco is making the new JJP no7 playfields as we speak

This is what sucks. We know that the next game (probably toy story) is GOING to have issues. Like, it is already written in the history books that they'll have problems and they're not even out yet.

#1655 3 months ago

Yup this

Quoted from jorant:

This is what sucks. We know that the next game (probably toy story) is GOING to have issues. Like, it is already written in the history books that they'll have problems and they're not even out yet.

#1656 3 months ago
Quoted from jorant:

We know that the next game (probably toy story) is GOING to have issues.

How do you know this?

#1657 3 months ago
Quoted from JohnTTwo:

How do you know this?

We don’t , it’s an assumption that people have now ... and I don’t blame them . But we have to wait and see. Until no7 in out. I just uploaded everything to maybe explain some problems . I really hope mirco fixes the problem

#1658 3 months ago
Quoted from Manic:

Or they could try to get Bader to do the PF's as R&M has NO art missing, thick glossy clear (can't feel ANY inserts) and has remarkably little dimpling. Or find a mole or send a spy over there to steal their "special sauce"
So it is indeed possible... even in this day and age.
.

For the trillionth time....Bader did the original WOZ playfields and had issues. JJP was so pissed that they totally burned that bridge. Basically threw Bader under the bus and just screwed them over. Bader and JJP probably would never agree to do business with each other again even if Mirco didn't have his contract with JJP and some sort of stake in the company.

Quoted from JohnTTwo:

How do you know this?

Well, if Mirco isn't changing the way he does things, then it seems like a pretty safe bet. Thank you AMSNL for sharing this very interesting information. What you said makes perfect sense, and I'd love to hear what some of the other Playfield experts like Vid or HEP would have to say about this as well.

#1659 3 months ago
Quoted from AMSNL:

Then it gets another clearcoat that stacks around the drilled/cut area s and then polling happens as you can see the stacking of clearcoat in a few post above this one.

Very interesting...in light of recent posts where owners say there appears to be less or thinner clear on New games makes me wonder if they changed this process.

#1660 3 months ago
Quoted from JoeJet:

Very interesting...in light of recent posts where owners say there appears to be less or thinner clear on New games makes me wonder if they changed this process.

Well maybe for the new runs he using indeed a thinner coat to hope the pooling issue goes away, but then you get another problem. Here is a picture from my own replacement CE playfield for a wonka with a verry thin clear coat made this year. Now the speckles are almost coming thru the clearcoat. So now is the question , what do you want more or less clear.... it sucks both ways

As you can see in the light reflection it looks pretty bad. This has NOTHING to do with JJP (maybe there QC is a bit shit at the moment) but this is mirco 99% there fault

I’m not liking JJP at the moment and there statement against the world but they really need to tell mirco te step up his game and do things like he did on hobbit etc as those playfields are much better

I’m a big JJP fan and I really like there games but this has got to stop!

143B83BB-3A1F-4428-BBBE-CD7F077A4502 (resized).jpegFF4F2A45-765C-4B62-9457-52E746956069 (resized).jpeg

#1661 3 months ago

Question on flipper strength. They seem to be set on whimpy from factory.

Have an LE built in April with black washers and no issues.

Would turning flipper strength up maybe cause PF issues?

Thanks!

#1662 3 months ago
Quoted from arzoo:

Jack Guarnieri doubles down and blames pf damage on owners, nice!

Wow. Just.... wow.

#1663 3 months ago
Quoted from AMSNL:

After that he cuts/drills the holes and kickers/lanes , and clearcoat again. Here is where the issue is. The first clearcoat is still soft and when cutting there is no protection on the cutted sections

So CLEARly the problem is: too thick, too fast.

(that's what she said)

The Hobbit playfields are great. I wonder why they did not stick with that recipe?

#1664 3 months ago
Quoted from AMSNL:

Well maybe for the new runs he using indeed a thinner coat to hope the pooling issue goes away, but then you get another problem. Here is a picture from my own replacement CE playfield for a wonka with a verry thin clear coat made this year. Now the speckles are almost coming thru the clearcoat. So now is the question , what do you want more or less clear.... it sucks both ways
As you can see in the light reflection it looks pretty bad. This has NOTHING to do with JJP (maybe there QC is a bit shit at the moment) but this is mirco 99% there fault
I’m not liking JJP at the moment and there statement against the world but they really need to tell mirco te step up his game and do things like he did on hobbit etc as those playfields are much better
I’m a big JJP fan and I really like there games but this has got to stop!
[quoted image][quoted image]

wow- if you run your fingers over the sparkles can you actually feel them? the picture looks awful. Hopefully its just an optical illusion.

12
#1665 3 months ago

No optical illusion here . To answer your question .... yes you can feel the sparkles and it does not feel magical

#1666 3 months ago
Quoted from AMSNL:

No optical illusion here . To answer your question .... yes you can feel the sparkles and it does not feel magical

Sparkles is just unicorn dander.

#1667 3 months ago
Quoted from EaglePin:

Yep, it's amazing to me how quickly people forget the history of this type of response coming from Jack and JJP.

Funny how people forget or don't know how he used to come on here and

Quoted from AMSNL:

No optical illusion here . To answer your question .... yes you can feel the sparkles and it does not feel magical

Jack has been an operator for 30 years and he says to stop damaging your playfield yourself. Its obvious to him that you dumped a bunch of glitter on the playfield and glued it down to try and get the special discounted unpopulated playfied for your machine.

-4
#1668 3 months ago
Quoted from RobT:

Yep, just the final straw. Guess I needed something to push me one way or the other, and this did it for me.
Good luck with yours Panzer. Definitely is an amazing looking and fun playing pin. Too bad the quality and customer support

Well maybe for the new runs he using indeed a thinner coat to hope the pooling issue goes away, but then you get another problem. Here is a picture from my own replacement CE playfield for a wonka with a verry thin clear coat made this year. Now the speckles are almost coming thru the clearcoat. So now is the question , what do you want more or less clear.... it sucks both ways
As you can see in the light reflection it looks pretty bad. This has NOTHING to do with JJP (maybe there QC is a bit shit at the moment) but this is mirco 99% there fault
I’m not liking JJP at the moment and there statement against the world but they really need to tell mirco te step up his game and do things like he did on hobbit etc as those playfields are much better
I’m a big JJP fan and I really like there games but this has got to stop!
[quoted image][quoted image]

Do you have any pictures that weren’t shot thru a soccer goal net?Thats too bad Wonka is a great game.

#1669 3 months ago
Quoted from romulusx:

Do you have any pictures that weren’t shot thru a soccer goal net?Thats too bad Wonka is a great game.

Not sure if you were trying to quote me or someone else??

#1670 3 months ago
Quoted from RobT:

Not sure if you were trying to quote me or someone else??

Actually I was trying to quote the gentleman from Amsterdam with the Wonka CE

#1671 3 months ago
Quoted from AMSNL:

Like I talked about with kruzman , here is the real issue. And the Real issue is with mirco. I have Uncut playfields from him to back this all up .
Mirco does the back and inserts for test then prints his games first on wood then clearcoats it.
After that he cuts/drills the holes and kickers/lanes , and clearcoat again. Here is where the issue is. The first clearcoat is still soft and when cutting there is no protection on the cutted sections.you can see that in the pictures .
after the seconds clearcoat is stacked without even had the time to harden Here comes the pooling issue
So for the cut out holes there is no overlap clearcoat on the wood or just so so that chipping is the first thing that will happen. And pooling comes for the thick stacking of the clearcoat in areas around it . There is nothing you can do about it other then to have someone like kruzman or any painter first have to remove the unsettled clearcoat . And refinish it with a new layer and let it sit.
So this has not much to do with the JJP line builders persee, as the clearcoat will stay so soft it will eat any playfield no matter what they do. Yes some hardware can fix some but not the issue that there are there.
JJP also has a contract with mirco when he and his buddies invested money into JJP when they had lots of trouble in 2013-2014. Even if JJP wants out they can’t
And to make it worse for you all.... mirco is making the new JJP no7 playfields as we speak
Here you can see a brand new mini playfield from pirates with those issues can be seen. I will upload pictures later of the uncut playfields
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

So what needs to change in the production process for PF's to turn out OK?

#1672 3 months ago
Quoted from romulusx:

Actually I was trying to quote the gentleman from Amsterdam with the Wonka CE

romulusx sure Will make more pictures later. As I got a feeling you think I make strange pictures to make it look worse? The soccer raster is the reflection of my lighting in my shop, changes nothing tho about the playfield problems

I’m gaining nothing to put JJP in a bad spot. As I have about 10000 pinsiders to back that up with there own JJP issues ....

I own all there machines And really hope they get there shit togheter. I’m just here to share thoughts and proof how things are backed up with pictures

#1673 3 months ago
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#1674 3 months ago

And here you can see there is not clearcoat overlap on the cutted/drilled sections and chipping is already happening

D2C0129D-4075-45EC-99A5-92F31EE90C3D (resized).jpeg
#1675 3 months ago
Quoted from AMSNL:

And here you can see there is not clearcoat overlap on the cutted/drilled sections and chipping is already happening [quoted image]

A portion of my day is spraying lacquer on a variety of wooden products. When I see that image, I'm compelled to talk to the operator about 'the requirement' of sealing that end-grain. Everything would head back to the lacquer department for rework.

#1676 3 months ago
Quoted from RockfordReplay:

A portion of my day is spraying lacquer on a variety of wooden products. When I see that image, I'm compelled to talk to the operator about 'the requirement' of sealing that end-grain. Everything would head back to the lacquer department for rework.

RockfordReplay whats your take on this? Is it better to overlap another clearcoat after the cut to seal the edges so adhesive is much better? As the chipping is I think when cutting/drilling the clear is not sticky to the wood anymore and air etc is getting under the clear

#1677 3 months ago
Quoted from AMSNL:

No optical illusion here . To answer your question .... yes you can feel the sparkles and it does not feel magical
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How is your yellow brick road , I haven't heard of any problems with them ( but I haven't been looking )

#1678 3 months ago
Quoted from screaminr:

How is your yellow brick road , I haven't heard of any problems with them ( but I haven't been looking )

Playfield is pretty good so far, no chipping but it does have some small pooling issue in some area near the forest and on 1 sling. Got some rubber washers now and been playing for 20 games or so. Hope it does not chip

#1679 3 months ago
Quoted from AMSNL:

Playfield is pretty good so far, no chipping but it does have some small pooling issue in some area near the forest and on 1 sling. Got some rubber washers now and been playing for 20 games or so. Hope it does not chip

Dude that sucks that your having playfield issues.I wish they would just get this shit rectified already!

#1680 3 months ago

I bought a spare playfield for my Wonka just based on how much use we put on the thing. I think it looks pretty good, though I don't have closeup hole photos.

Whenever I need to install it, my plan is to use a tapered reamer to widen the clear around each hole a bit.
That's from Vid's playfield swap guide.
IMG_2562.jpeg

IMG_2563.jpeg

#1681 3 months ago
Quoted from AMSNL:

[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

Wow, tell me that's just a trick of the light and the clear isn't cracking around the edge of this insert!!

WonkaPF (resized).png
#1682 3 months ago

If you are going to use that playfield then better invest money in it now and have someone sand if the clear and re do it. Then with cut out overlap clear. And let it sit till you need it . Then you’ll have awsome CE

#1683 3 months ago

bobukcat wtf I did not spot that! I have to check the playfield tommorow and let you know

#1684 3 months ago
Quoted from zaphX:

I got a spare playfield for my Wonka just based on how much use we put on the thing. I think it looks pretty good, though I don't have closeup hole photos.
Whenever I need to install it, my plan is to use a tapered reamer to widen the clear around each hole a bit.
That's from Vid's playfield swap guide.
[quoted image]
[quoted image]

Welcome back to Pinside. How was your break?

#1685 3 months ago
Quoted from AMSNL:

And here you can see there is not clearcoat overlap on the cutted/drilled sections and chipping is already happening [quoted image]

What if you put thin superglue around the inside of those holes to seal it off. It couldnt hurt.

#1686 3 months ago

zr11990 yes that should work. But is no cure for the build games. As there is already hardware placed

#1687 3 months ago
Quoted from AMSNL:

zr11990 yes that should work. But is no cure for the build games. As there is already hardware placed

I think I would pull the hardware out and seal it with the glue as long as pulling it out didnt make it worse.

#1688 3 months ago

Hmm good point. Something to think about

#1689 3 months ago

I used thin, water based super glue around the edges after using the playfield iron. I'd used it in the past to repair scoop holes with great results, so I figured a little extra bonding around the edges couldn't hurt.

#1690 3 months ago
Quoted from AMSNL:

RockfordReplay whats your take on this? Is it better to overlap another clearcoat after the cut to seal the edges so adhesive is much better? As the chipping is I think when cutting/drilling the clear is not sticky to the wood anymore and air etc is getting under the clear

This is tough one, because we can incorrectly assume the clearcoat is truly cured. If those initial coats of clear are still eating at the print, the only way to do anything correctly is start over. If hot-pressing forces the un-cured layers to out-gas at the holes, great, then the edges can be sealed.

We spray lacquer. I've dreamed about mounting a cup-gun on our robot and sampling clearcoat on a junk playfield. For lacquer, the thing that I stress most is the sanding technique between coats. Newer employees will simply push a sponge over the surface and feel satisfaction. "Nooooo, you need to look at the reflected light and see the cutting action." For our premium items, there's 3 stages of sanding between coats. The 3rd/final stage of sanding is key before the next layer.

#1691 3 months ago
Quoted from Betelgeuse:

I used thin, water based super glue

Is that to stop , white " fogging "

#1692 3 months ago
Quoted from screaminr:

Is that to stop , white " fogging "

Not exactly. I'm guessing the fogging you are referring to is air under the clearcoat, like the 'ghosting' on inserts. I'm not sure how you could get the glue into those pockets. The super glue acts more like a spot clearcoat, sealing in any touchups or chips, and hopefully preventing the clearcoat from pulling/lifting away from any edges where posts are installed or ball impact occurs. As a hail mary play, I have actually glued chips back into place and then glued over the chipped area, and it looks almost 100% again. I'm no expert though. It's just a method a friend had showed me that has worked for me a few times.

#1693 3 months ago

Fogging is moisture.

-1
#1694 3 months ago
Quoted from RockfordReplay:

Fogging is moisture.

Dats what she said....
( )

#1695 3 months ago
Quoted from Zitt:

Dats what she said....
( )

Lol , apparently the word I was looking for was hazing .

#1696 3 months ago

jjp letting gnr owners buy a playfield for cost as a concession is ridiculous.

they expect customers to do playfield swap or pay for it. anybody that buys a jjp supports this crap idgaf if we never have pinball again i hope jjp goes bankrupt. i will never ever buy a jjp and i dont wanna see jersey jack at a pinshow either after blaming customers for playfield failures in an interview SHAME on him.

#1697 3 months ago
Quoted from robotron:

jjp letting gnr owners buy a playfield for cost as a concession is ridiculous.

...and it's not even at cost.

#1698 3 months ago
Quoted from yancy:

...and it's not even at cost.

It’s definitely not at cost.

-30
#1699 3 months ago
Quoted from robotron:

jjp letting gnr owners buy a playfield for cost as a concession is ridiculous.

I was willing and planning to buy a playfield at the full $1100 price, so to me this is a generous offer in compromise.

But you people will never be happy.

14
#1700 3 months ago
Quoted from zaphX:

I was willing and planning to buy a playfield at the full $1100 price, so to me this is a generous offer in compromise.
But you people will never be happy.

sorry, but I do not agree with this logic , I believe it is flawed. When I buy a brand new item I do not expect it to fail shortly after being used nor I expect to be charged for the repair when it is clearly a manufacturing issue.

Here Sir, here is your new car... oh btw, we are sorry the tires all bald, as you know we do not sell tires therefore it is not our fault. New tires are $1000. Good luck.

Would you be ok with this logic? this is what you seem to be proposing.

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