(Topic ID: 292889)

Why is JJP still making games with faulty playfields?

By PanzerFreak

5 months ago


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15
#1601 81 days ago

Posted elsewhere, but will repeat it here: listening to this recent interview with Jack, combined with the video from 2 years ago saying the PF issue had been identified and fixed (BS), it made me pissed enough to finally call my distributor to cancel my GnR LE order.

No new JJP games will be seeing the light of day in my collection any time soon.

#1602 81 days ago
Quoted from RobT:

Posted elsewhere, but will repeat it here: listening to this recent interview with Jack, combined with the video from 2 years ago saying the PF issue had been identified and fixed (BS), it made me pissed enough to finally call my distributor to cancel my GnR LE order.
No new JJP games will be seeing the light of day in my collection any time soon.

That interview is a new low point.
Not good

13
#1603 81 days ago
Quoted from RobT:

Posted elsewhere, but will repeat it here: listening to this recent interview with Jack, combined with the video from 2 years ago saying the PF issue had been identified and fixed (BS), it made me pissed enough to finally call my distributor to cancel my GnR LE order.
No new JJP games will be seeing the light of day in my collection any time soon.

I don't blame ya, what Jack said was flat out wrong. Blaming customers for playfield issues is not only bizarre but insulting towards customers.

#1604 81 days ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

I don't blame ya, what Jack said was flat out wrong. Blaming customers for playfield issues is not only bizarre but insulting towards customers.

Yep, just the final straw. Guess I needed something to push me one way or the other, and this did it for me.

Good luck with yours Panzer. Definitely is an amazing looking and fun playing pin. Too bad the quality and customer support isn't there.

#1605 81 days ago

That statement from Jack was a just a cheap shot at owners...this is my first foray into JJP ownership... And while I’ve made the best of it and helped others put washers and fix their machines to playable condition I’m kind of pissed that I’ve been accused (not directly but as a customer ) of somehow “damaging” Or manipulating somehow my own machine ...to what end...??? The statement literally makes no sense. Very disappointed.

#1606 80 days ago
Quoted from fooflighter:

That statement from Jack was a “used car salesman” low just a cheap shot at owners...this is my first foray into JJP ownership... And while I’ve made the best of it and helped others put washers and fix their machines to playable condition I’m kind of pissed that I’ve been accused (not directly but as a customer ) of somehow “damaging” Or manipulating somehow my own machine ...to what end...??? The statement literally makes no sense. Very disappointed.

I resent that. I at least try to help my customers. A used car is a lot different than a new pin.

#1607 80 days ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

I don't blame ya, what Jack said was flat out wrong. Blaming customers for playfield issues is not only bizarre but insulting towards customers.

It’s not bizarre if he is getting ready to fight a class action lawsuit.

#1608 80 days ago
Quoted from JohnTTwo:

It’s not bizarre if he is getting ready to fight a class action lawsuit.

If he said there was no problems that would be obvious lie. If he admitted to problems, that would open the floodgates of people demanding resolution and others canceling orders. Should of just said it's something we are looking into and always looking into improving quality.

#1609 80 days ago
Quoted from JohnTTwo:

It’s not bizarre if he is getting ready to fight a class action lawsuit.

Gonna be nice for all the people pissed off about their games. The $2.50 they receive from the distributed settlement is sure to erase all their negative feelings and bring them back to JJP's side...

#1610 80 days ago
Quoted from zr11990:

I resent that. I at least try to help my customers. A used car is a lot different than a new pin.

I think he's rolling with a metaphor using the same well known and accurate stereotype that is true today and you're fighting against this fact in the real world every time someone shows up at your place of business. You are outnumbered by the bad apples by a lot, unfortunately. I think you know it wasn't personal.

#1611 80 days ago
Quoted from Vespula:

I think he's rolling with a metaphor using the same well known and accurate stereotype that is true today and you're fighting against this fact in the real world every time someone shows up at your place of business. You are outnumbered by the bad apples by a lot, unfortunately. I think you know it wasn't personal.

Im just kidding. I dont get offended easily. We used car dealers get a bad rap and some of it we deserve and some we dont. Its a tough business.

#1612 80 days ago
Quoted from zr11990:

Im just kidding. I dont get offended easily. We used car dealers get a bad rap and some of it we deserve and some we dont. Its a tough business.

You guys and lawyers, plenty of good ones!

#1613 80 days ago
Quoted from fooflighter:

That statement from Jack was a “used car salesman” low just a cheap shot at owners...this is my first foray into JJP ownership... And while I’ve made the best of it and helped others put washers and fix their machines to playable condition I’m kind of pissed that I’ve been accused (not directly but as a customer ) of somehow “damaging” Or manipulating somehow my own machine ...to what end...??? The statement literally makes no sense. Very disappointed.

I'm still sticking with my order and with your advice , I will be taking proactive measures to protect the Playfield .
The game is too good and too fun .
Yes , there are people who have had Playfield issues and have been treated like shit .
There are also people who haven't had any issues and my distributor is top-notch , so I'm willing to take the gamble .
Time will tell , if I made a Wise Choice or a poor choice

#1614 80 days ago
Quoted from RobT:

Yep, just the final straw. Guess I needed something to push me one way or the other, and this did it for me.
Good luck with yours Panzer. Definitely is an amazing looking and fun playing pin. Too bad the quality and customer support isn't there.

Thanks. So far so good. The packaging of the game, overall build quality, and playability of the game have been excellent. Opening the game and setting it up felt like I was unboxing a premium product. I've had to make a couple tweaks to mechs but very minor. Now of course the big question is how the playfield will hold up. It's a July 2021 build with all of the latest tweaks / fixes. Reports of playfield issues have really dropped off, almost to 0 it seems, since late May and going forward.

I think it helps to have a great distributor that will back you up if issues arise. I ordered from Gary at Abel Electronics and would recommend him to anyone looking to buy a JJP pin.

#1615 80 days ago
Quoted from zr11990:

I resent that. I at least try to help my customers. A used car is a lot different than a new pin.

Sorry, meant no offense... I edited my post

#1616 80 days ago
Quoted from screaminr:

I'm still sticking with my order and with your advice , I will be taking proactive measures to protect the Playfield .
The game is too good and too fun .
Yes , there are people who have had Playfield issues and have been treated like shit .
There are also people who haven't had any issues and my distributor is top-notch , so I'm willing to take the gamble .
Time will tell , if I made a Wise Choice or a poor choice

It is a great game, once bullet proofed, I honestly don't think about play field issues anymore... Is just a shame the game has to live under a shadow and the company p
Reps blame the customers. That's like blaming passengers that the plane arrives late

#1617 80 days ago
Quoted from fooflighter:

Sorry, meant no offense... I edited my post

Man, I was kidding. I took no offence to that. Sorry about my sense of humor.

#1618 80 days ago

I just received my GNR LE a few days ago, it's a mid-july build... and I swear there is very little clearcoat on my playfield. It has very little shine to it. I'm wondering if this is how JJP is handing this... now putting in playfields with less clear so that way there's nothing to pool or cause chipping?

I mean, it doesn't look bad. Just surprised me. Also, the interior of my game was full of dust and was dirtier than any other game I've ever unboxed (and I've unboxed at least 50 new pinball machines over the years).

#1619 80 days ago

This was included inside my machine, is this a new thing or just something I haven’t seen before on a jjp purchase?

A7C3BE5E-1224-4CB6-B76D-26456A703EFF (resized).jpeg
#1620 80 days ago
Quoted from Khabbi:

This was included inside my machine, is this a new thing or just something I haven’t seen before on a jjp purchase? [quoted image]

I didn’t get that with my game. Someone’s lazy attempt at damage control it seems.

#1621 80 days ago
Quoted from Khabbi:

I just received my GNR LE a few days ago, it's a mid-july build... and I swear there is very little clearcoat on my playfield. It has very little shine to it. I'm wondering if this is how JJP is handing this... now putting in playfields with less clear so that way there's nothing to pool or cause chipping?
I mean, it doesn't look bad. Just surprised me. Also, the interior of my game was full of dust and was dirtier than any other game I've ever unboxed (and I've unboxed at least 50 new pinball machines over the years).

I asked Jack... he wanted to know why you would put dirt and dust inside your new game?

Clear wise, just buy a new playfield if you want more clearcoat.

You are welcome.

#1622 80 days ago
Quoted from Khabbi:

This was included inside my machine, is this a new thing or just something I haven’t seen before on a jjp purchase? [quoted image]

I got that in my CE also.

#1623 80 days ago
Quoted from Khabbi:

This was included inside my machine, is this a new thing or just something I haven’t seen before on a jjp purchase? [quoted image]

Just their way of (further) lowering expectations when it comes to JJP's quality.

#1624 80 days ago
Quoted from jandrea95:

I didn’t get that with my game. Someone’s lazy attempt at damage control it seems.

Last time this was brought up it was determined that JJP is copying STERN's statement regarding each game being unique and potentially having unique issues.

#1625 80 days ago
Quoted from Khabbi:

This was included inside my machine, is this a new thing or just something I haven’t seen before on a jjp purchase? [quoted image]

Ignore the minor imperfections, it’s normal. Now give me the full $10k

FC0090EE-1364-442A-8E63-AAF663E42EEA.jpeg
#1626 80 days ago
Quoted from Elvishasleft:

I asked Jack... he wanted to know why you would put dirt and dust inside your new game?
Clear wise, just buy a new playfield if you want more clearcoat.
You are welcome.

This is funny. Props.

#1627 80 days ago
Quoted from FlippyD:

Last time this was brought up it was determined that JJP is copying STERN's statement regarding each game being unique and potentially having unique issues.

This is like word for word what Stern includes with their pins.

#1628 80 days ago
scottyf1 (resized).jpgscottyf2 (resized).jpg
#1629 80 days ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

Thanks. So far so good. The packaging of the game, overall build quality, and playability of the game have been excellent. Opening the game and setting it up felt like I was unboxing a premium product. I've had to make a couple tweaks to mechs but very minor. Now of course the big question is how the playfield will hold up. It's a July 2021 build with all of the latest tweaks / fixes. Reports of playfield issues have really dropped off, almost to 0 it seems, since late May and going forward.
I think it helps to have a great distributor that will back you up if issues arise. I ordered from Gary at Abel Electronics and would recommend him to anyone looking to buy a JJP pin.

Gary and his brother Mark are good people. I worked with Mark for a few years in another life....

#1630 80 days ago
Quoted from cooked71:

I got that in my CE also.

Just the letter or also the excess dust and dirt?

Unless Khabbi put the dust and dirt in himself after unboxing his machine...

#1631 80 days ago

Isn’t transparent aluminum a thing now or am I dreaming

#1632 80 days ago

I have a JD that spent most of its life routed over 30,000 plays and not a single friggen dimple. Not one. And If I cared I bet I could buff it back to a high sheen…

Where the hell did that technology go..?

-1
#1633 80 days ago
Quoted from LORDDREK:

I have a JD that spent most of its life routed over 30,000 plays and not a single friggen dimple. Not one. And If I cared I bet I could buff it back to a high sheen…
Where the hell did that technology go..?

Environmental regulations probably.

23
#1634 80 days ago

Like I talked about with kruzman , here is the real issue. And the Real issue is with mirco. I have Uncut playfields from him to back this all up .

Mirco does the back and inserts for test then prints his games first on wood then clearcoats it.

After that he cuts/drills the holes and kickers/lanes , and clearcoat again. Here is where the issue is. The first clearcoat is still soft and when cutting there is no protection on the cutted sections.you can see that in the pictures .

after the seconds clearcoat is stacked without even had the time to harden Here comes the pooling issue

So for the cut out holes there is no overlap clearcoat on the wood or just so so that chipping is the first thing that will happen. And pooling comes for the thick stacking of the clearcoat in areas around it . There is nothing you can do about it other then to have someone like kruzman or any painter first have to remove the unsettled clearcoat . And refinish it with a new layer and let it sit.

So this has not much to do with the JJP line builders persee, as the clearcoat will stay so soft it will eat any playfield no matter what they do. Yes some hardware can fix some but not the issue that there are there.

JJP also has a contract with mirco when he and his buddies invested money into JJP when they had lots of trouble in 2013-2014. Even if JJP wants out they can’t

And to make it worse for you all.... mirco is making the new JJP no7 playfields as we speak

Here you can see a brand new mini playfield from pirates with those issues can be seen. I will upload pictures later of the uncut playfields
1D1AD11A-1F59-4F37-8D25-C50C6EBDDF3E (resized).jpegB4B27512-E0A2-4759-A5A3-F84F77E4FB87 (resized).jpegDC0B7ABD-54B6-48D2-B377-8A90DA7404BB (resized).jpeg

#1635 79 days ago

Wow, the post above really hits some key points that I haven't heard on the Mirco process. Thanks for the insight. I look forward to seeing the rest of the pictures.

Quoted from AMSNL:

JJP also has a contract with mirco when he and his buddies invested money into JJP when they had lots of trouble in 2013-2014. Even if JJP wants out they can’t

This I have not heard before, but it would explain a lot. JJP was definitely shopping around back in the day looking for investors.

#1636 79 days ago
Quoted from AMSNL:

Like I talked about with kruzman , here is the real issue. And the Real issue is with mirco. I have Uncut playfields from him to back this all up .
Mirco does the back and inserts for test then prints his games first on wood then clearcoats it.
After that he cuts/drills the holes and kickers/lanes , and clearcoat again. Here is where the issue is. The first clearcoat is still soft and when cutting there is no protection on the cutted sections.you can see that in the pictures .
after the seconds clearcoat is stacked without even had the time to harden Here comes the pooling issue
So for the cut out holes there is no overlap clearcoat on the wood or just so so that chipping is the first thing that will happen. And pooling comes for the thick stacking of the clearcoat in areas around it . There is nothing you can do about it other then to have someone like kruzman or any painter first have to remove the unsettled clearcoat . And refinish it with a new layer and let it sit.
So this has not much to do with the JJP line builders persee, as the clearcoat will stay so soft it will eat any playfield no matter what they do. Yes some hardware can fix some but not the issue that there are there.
JJP also has a contract with mirco when he and his buddies invested money into JJP when they had lots of trouble in 2013-2014. Even if JJP wants out they can’t
And to make it worse for you all.... mirco is making the new JJP no7 playfields as we speak
Here you can see a brand new mini playfield from pirates with those issues can be seen. I will upload pictures later of the uncut playfields
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

Very bad news for JJP NIB future games. I don't have to worry about NIB JJP games anymore.

#1637 79 days ago

I guess if anyone takes JJP up on that $499 extra pf deal, they can have Ron do his magic to make it solid as an extra layer of peace of mind.

#1638 79 days ago
Quoted from LORDDREK:

I have a JD that spent most of its life routed over 30,000 plays and not a single friggen dimple. Not one. And If I cared I bet I could buff it back to a high sheen…
Where the hell did that technology go..?

I have a Stern Shrek with 100K plays from being heavily routed at a Chuck E Cheese. The playfield is nearly perfect, with just some scratches from a flipper dragging and some between the pops. It’s possible to have playfields hold up well, but it seems like that might be too much work nowadays. I dont doubt that with a little novus, your game would shine up nicely. Too bad they dont make em like they used to.

#1639 79 days ago
Quoted from RC_like_the_cola:

I guess if anyone takes JJP up on that $499 extra pf deal, they can have Ron do his magic to make it solid as an extra layer of peace of mind.

That 1.5k+ plus a total teardown of a modern game...what could be easier!!
Just kidding, it'll just sit next to the machine until they try to sell it.

#1640 79 days ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

That 1.5k+ plus a total teardown of a modern game...what could be easier!!
Just kidding, it'll just sit next to the machine until they try to sell it.

LOL. I totally get that. I certainly wouldn't do all that swap work and use the playfield as is, knowing the new one will chip a hundred plays in. I'd have to have Ron or someone do a real professional job before investing the time and labor that the swap would take.

#1641 79 days ago
Quoted from Khabbi:

I just received my GNR LE a few days ago, it's a mid-july build... and I swear there is very little clearcoat on my playfield. It has very little shine to it. I'm wondering if this is how JJP is handing this... now putting in playfields with less clear so that way there's nothing to pool or cause chipping?
I mean, it doesn't look bad. Just surprised me. Also, the interior of my game was full of dust and was dirtier than any other game I've ever unboxed (and I've unboxed at least 50 new pinball machines over the years).

I just picked up my GNR LE last week (July build) and I noticed the same thing, seems like the clear coat is really thin……hopefully that helps, along with all the extra washers installed.

#1642 79 days ago
Quoted from Briks-707:

I just picked up my GNR LE last week (July build) and I noticed the same thing, seems like the clear coat is really thin……hopefully that helps, along with all the extra washers installed.

Keep us posted!

#1643 79 days ago
Quoted from Briks-707:

I just picked up my GNR LE last week (July build) and I noticed the same thing, seems like the clear coat is really thin……hopefully that helps, along with all the extra washers installed.

Thin is good. And no printing around posts would be even better. That's how Stern "fixed" it. Not a fix at all - just a clever way of deailing with the existing issues.

#1644 79 days ago

When will the spare GNR playfields become available to order? I’d like to pick one up for $500 as backup for my LE

#1645 79 days ago
Quoted from darkryder:

When will the spare GNR playfields become available to order? I’d like to pick one up for $500 as backup for my LE

You can get on the list now.

Actually placing the order… timeframe hasn’t been specified.

Shipping… at the end of GNR production. JJP said “A realistic time frame would be summer of 2022.”

#1646 79 days ago
Quoted from screaminr:

There are also people who haven't had any issues and my distributor is top-notch , so I'm willing to take the gamble .

This is a legit, non-trolling question. My full payment invoice for my LE has come in due early sept.

In this situation is there anything our Aust distributor can actually do to help?
What you you expect them to do if you weren't happy? Did the early owners with issues get resolutions that were anything apart from just washers?

#1647 79 days ago
Quoted from cooked71:

Thin is good. And no printing around posts would be even better. That's how Stern "fixed" it. Not a fix at all - just a clever way of deailing with the existing issues.

Or they could try to get Bader to do the PF's as R&M has NO art missing, thick glossy clear (can't feel ANY inserts) and has remarkably little dimpling. Or find a mole or send a spy over there to steal their "special sauce"

So it is indeed possible... even in this day and age.

.

#1648 79 days ago
Quoted from Manic:

Or they could try to get Bader to do the PF's as R&M has NO art missing, thick glossy clear (can't feel ANY inserts) and has remarkably little dimpling. Or find a mole or send a spy over there to steal their "special sauce"
So it is indeed possible... even in this day and age.
.

Would be the preferred option for sure, but a previous post in this thread hinted that Mirco may have some sort of financial leverage over JJP or were a possible early investor.

#1649 78 days ago

As promised , here is the uncut playfield ,i have also from GNR/Wonka And these have the exact same issues,but I show the pirates as it’s easy r to show the faults (btw please don’t send me PM regarding these playfields)

The clear is rock solid this is how it should be , so the issue of the chipping is when it’s cut again and drilled. There is no clearcoat overlap on the drilled parts .

Then it gets another clearcoat that stacks around the drilled/cut area s and then polling happens as you can see the stacking of clearcoat in a few post above this one.

22A62440-D977-48CA-A8CF-5C170744A433 (resized).jpeg2DEEBC0D-5093-4C71-A236-44F80F0F8894 (resized).jpegF6A9B03D-B280-4D2E-98D6-A9DAEDC3FCB7 (resized).jpeg

#1650 78 days ago

Seems crazy for any clear to be applied before any drilling or routing ?

Logic would stand that clear is a process that is done when the playfield is completed.

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