Come on Icey, you raggin on our boy Stern again, by attempting to put them in the same camp as JJP known for weak flippers right out of the box??? LOL There is a huge difference between Stern flipper fade after playing a game for 45 minutes, with a Stern like STH and all JJP weak flipper issues seen immediately in the first minute of game play. Colossal difference between the 2.

You've worn out your welcome in the JJP threads to the point where nothing you say will be met with open arms. I agree with a lot of what you have to say, but people get emotional over this crap.

Just stating the facts Jimmy! Ask anybody that owns an STH. I don’t notice it on other Stern pins but that’s why Vireland sells the crap out of those flipper coil fans.

I actually play my games and don’t worry about all the drama.

Will my GNR chip at the posts or not? Stay tuned. Doesn’t matter, I’ll just drop those wide black washers in to cover it up.

The weak flippers make the gameplay on Eric's games clumsy and slow; I don't see anything wrong with his designs. Hardware is letting him down.

Why would my welcome be worn out??? This is a thread of discussing the pluses and minuses of JJP in particular. If I was in a Stern thread, I would discuss their pluses and minuses too, just like everyone else. Everyone should be welcomed in this thread. None of us are making these machines nor are stockholders in JJP. Why are a few people getting so emotional over a silly game, like its their identity and livelihood? This is very immature on JJP fanboys part. Everyone and their opinions in a forum should be respected and made to feel welcome in expressing their viewpoints. Just because we don’t agree on certain pinball points is no reason to become unkind in our expressions with one another. This is only a game and not our religion. It is people like us that get others to have a better viewpoint on future purchases from JJP. These games are way too high priced to not value others viewpoints even if we don’t agree at first. They just might save us from lots of headaches and trouble in the future. This is the value of this forum, to help each other by giving our values, viewpoints and experiences with any of these pinball companies. Why would anyone in their right mind not welcome that??? Only small minded insecure individuals are going to not welcome everyone’s viewpoints.

I admittedly participated in the off-topic GnR discussion from the Mandalorian thread that you ported over here (tip of the hat for the off-topic double-dip). That said, this thread isn't about GnR gameplay quality, it's about GnR playfield quality. Speed of play and flipper snappiness don't enter into it.

This forum is a place to discuss any JJP issues we value. Any hot topic area is going to have interspersed other issues enter into the discussion. It will always happen and is the course of natural human expressions.

What's this I hear?? GnR drama in a mando thread spreading here like a cancer to this JJP forum thread!! nooooo! Where's security??
Better go check it out.. Might need reinforcements! Jk

Koombyah.

Yeah he's graduated from fan boy to sycophant and doesn't even have 500 posts yet.

No. You're just wrong in your assessment. Fanboyism has little to do with it. Are their flippers different? Yes. It's DI slow and clumsy? GTFOH.

You’re too funny! Looooool!!!

Yep. I can’t publicly say but let’s just say I’m a legacy part of this company and it breaks my heart to see it being torn down by poor judgement and lack of overall understanding of fundamental physics. JJP had my WOZ money back in the day and seeing the current issues I’m still hopeful they can pull it back. Pins are beautiful just like my cars.

Still smarting over suggesting we get rid of your copycat thread? Looool Should realize, this is your life and quite important to you, so copy or not, carry on. Lol

I think we should give this Jimwest c.s. the boot I think I'd rather have Kaneda here instead of this c.s.

He'll just come back as jimwe6t

Nice

Can anyone sum up the current situation? Did the playfields ever improve?

Luv ya Ice, but you sure post and defend JJP a lot for someone that doesn't worry about all the drama

Block his posts. That's what I did since I have found them to be less than constructive. Unfortunately he is a representation of some of the ugliness happening in today's society and seems to want to create dissent and discord as much as possible with his troll-like behavior.

It would help if pinside had posting limits. A lot of what makes reading threads a chore is the people who post 20 times per page across multiple threads, with nothing more than their opinion. Nobody's opinion is that valuable. There are thousands of people on this site and it's always the same dozen or so people chewing up the scenery.

Stopping people from posting on a message board is silly, eXpecially when all you have to do is click a button to block someone

...or scroll. My wheel gets a workout.

Who are you kidding? We know what you're working with over there...

trackball-kensington-expertmouse5.0 (resized).jpg

Ok boomer? is that used right?

Gotta hit that sucker like Golden Tee in some threads.

Because i don't get it really? I like the back and forth banter. I see both sides of the issue. I praise the heck out of Stern too!

Now here is my question. What is the worst case scenario?

Is it some chipping around posts over time OR is it the embellishment of PF's "disintegrating" before our very eyes? It is wood after all and thus the steel ball won't be able to grind that pf into dust i don't think.

IF the outcome is more like my WOZ, which is considered pretty poor pf, then it's got some wear but still standing strong. Not perfect by any stretch. That's 8 yrs later.

So, what's it gonna look like 8 yrs from now, GNR? The older you get, the less you care, that i can promise you!

When the steel ball bangs into a loose post and chips up the pf then presumably, it's NOT going to chip the remainder of the PF as it rolls freely around it.

IF we ended up with a PF that had zero artwork left THEN i would have a problem with.

Show me one PF in the history of PF's over decades that it's happened. When you see a chewed up shooter lane is the pf defective?

So, everybody has to make their own decisions. I'll buy Toy Story CE without any concern whatsoever.

Well we are dealing with Snowflakes who like to cancel people. They need to toughen up a bit or the world will eat them alive.

One of the best products ever That thing was buttah!

From what I've seen, most people who call others "snowflakes" tend to have the most attributes of what they think a snowflake is, themselves.

Wow... Either you have a ton of money to just throw around without recourse or...??? I really don't have an or... This is just about the most insane take one could have. PLAYFIELDS ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO POOL AND CHIP. I feel like I have to scream that since you seem to think this is somehow normal. Your argument that you'd only be upset if the playfield was destroyed entirely down to the wood is so far beyond anything remotely resembling reason that it's hard to describe. What's worse is you claim you "don't get it really"... What don't you get? That people paid thousands of dollars and expect a product that's not falling apart right after taking it out of the box? You really don't get why people would be upset about that? What the actual fuck?

Jeff

Correct. You can stop there.

What a complete crock... An absolute complete crock of shit. You are a troll. Period. Why you weren't banned a long time ago is beyond me. Your posts here are almost exclusively about one thing and one thing only, how much you hate JJP games. Then you say this pile of shit about alternative viewpoints and how we should all just get along... GTFOH... You're not here to help anyone, you're here to shit all over JJP then play the victim card. Then you have the nerve to claim others are insecure and small minded for being tired of your constant and obsessive trolling. Perhaps, and bear with me here, people are just tired of your endless shit? Maybe that could be the reason??? Just maybe????

Jeff

Excuse me BUT I paid $12,500 and can sell it for a whole lot more?

That’s what the actual fuck is. Maybe you guys don’t understand simple math and supply and demand.

And once again, the over dramatizing it by saying it’s “falling apart right after taking it out of the box” is complete utter BS. Lol

You can be pissed about not having a perfect PF, I get it, but WTF with the over the top nonsense.

Finally, nobody is holding a gun to anyone’s head to buy one! Don’t like, don’t buy OR if you did, sell it now for a profit. Simple

Do like Vid did. Now he’s not whining 24/7

But I want a GNR and I’m entitled to one. No you aren’t. If JJP does business that way and you don’t like then step out of line

I read Ice’s prior post and pretty much agreed with it. I don’t think it’s ok for a playfield to chip or pool (and neither does Ice), but at the same time it doesn’t get me bent out of shape to where I can’t enjoy the game if there is an eventual small chip near a post.

It’s certainly not falling apart right out of the box. That’s a bit of an over dramatization.

I think JJP will eventually kick Mirco to the curb and replace them. At that point, I would guess JJP offers replacement playfields at cost to owners. Not ideal, but I could probably swap the PF in 3 or 4 hours.

But honestly, since I took a few preventative measures, I haven’t noticed any issues. I doubt needing a replacement PF will ever be necessary for me.

Did you add the Mylar and petg washers?

I agree that JJP will kick Mirco to the curb now after all these years and promises. Gotta be discouraging for JJP crew to have their great work diminished by this issue

Not sure what or why but my TBL pf has been top notch and I believe Mirco did those?

The TBL playfields are Mirco, but were produced more than 5 years ago. Mirco did a big equipment/process overhaul a few years back, and speculation is that caused the current adhesion and chipping issues. At some point DP will run out of old stock playfields and will have to decide if they'll use Mirco again going forward, hopefully he'll have worked this out by that point.

When you guys say PETG washers do you mean the silicone ones from Pinball Life?

How much one of these ce playfields cost as well as the top one ?

Marco has the clear “lexan” in various sizes which I believe is the same thing?

Cliffy makes a set with a scoop protector and is backed up quite a while

I’m sure PL washers work as good

I remember him touting being able to order one off PFs on demand as opposed to having to do big runs the old way

Whatever he did in the upgrade process ain’t working out so great?

Key post here might help
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/the-official-jjp-gnr-thread/page/226#post-6338289

Ahh, ok.

I’m using Deeproot inspired “Quad Protocol”……Flatten the pooling using Yelobird’s iron method, followed by a Mylar ring, then Pinball Life silicone, then normal steel washer.

There’s no chance these posts are doing any damage if treated properly.

Yes - Mylar circles, PETG washers with longer posts that thread all the way through the playfield.

I *REMOVED* my upper PF post and threw down a Mylar circle just in case. I'm still pleased with that solution as it's one less post I have to mess with.

Thanks, that’s a great guide.

Hot dam well said!!!

guys, I just got my LE GNR today, and there are no issues. No pooling or chipping; just a glassy nice Playfield. I just figure there are some duds and alot of good ones out there. I suppose I'm lucky, but the hype over PF issues may be exaggerated here. I've owned three JJP games, and only Wonka had pooling and maybe one millimeter of chip on two star posts. I am not happy that Wonka has a defect, of course, but I've put 1500 games on it, and there is no increase in the chip whatsoever, and the pooling on three posts is super negligible.

I think we ought to understand that even somewhat mass produced items, like pinballs, will always have certain units which are manufactured poorly. It stinks sometimes of course, but overall, there is a lot to love despite the minor defects.

I hope GNR holds up well like wonka. Only time will tell.

i think you're underestimating the amount of time it takes to swap a playfield. I've done a bunch and even with all the right tools, parts and a rotisserie its going to take 20-30 hours. its beyond the ability of most casual collectors. with that said- these games are made to be played. i wouldn't let a few chips keep me from enjoying the game.