It does?

As you know, I am in pretty much the exact same situation as you, so I am paying attention to this stuff and can't say that I have noticed a difference in the newer build dates having less PF issues. I'm still in a holding pattern on my GnR LE

I'm aware of that stuff. So that's a minor change that was made. But that doesn't constitute evidence of "far less playfield issues" to me.

So now we’ve become teenage girls?
I was just asking if anybody knew what was next on the slate.I realized your pissed about playfields but if they can finally change vendors JJP makes a great product and it’s a shame one of the greatest pins ever made is dragged down by this bullshit

So why isn’t the paint coming off of my 2021-2022 car? It’s not wood but damned if the environment a car is in is ultimate exposure.

No need to compare it to your car, as we can compare it to other playfields in the industry...that don't have this problem.

100s of people bedazzling their machines?
Think that's old news around here

Teenage girls?

With the obsession with "toys" and dolls I'm thinking younger.

Dolls?You mean like baby Yoda?

Teenagers are too old for Romper Room.

+1. I’m getting the game as late as possible. So keep this thread noisy and loud so JJP fixes this prior to our late builds. Right now it’s a coin toss whether I keep it or flip it based on what I’m seeing

The posts above the pops near the inlane seem to be the only free standing posts with t-nuts that I could see in my casual scans.

Here it is on our build... I wouldn't exactly call it held on by a few threads...
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The t-nut to the right is also the same kind of post, but is is more tucked behind the pop-bumper.

But the nylon nut sure should make it harder for the post to work itself free. Here is the post from the topside.

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Obviously an easy swap if anyone cared to... manual says it's a 10-32 t-nut. So this one would probably do https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/530-5005-00

Yea - that’s the one I just put on mine. I can get the metal washer->PETG washer->mylar circle on and have some thread left on the bottom, but not enough to engage the nylon on a lock nut.

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On the top post, I’m happy I decided to remove it altogether. It makes the lock shot a little easier off a cradle and now I don’t think about the post issues.

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I think I have an idea on how to solve this. It appears they put in this post specifically to stop to pops from shooting the ball back into that top inlane switch. If they haven’t solved this prior to my late late late pin arriving I’m going to manufacture a fix

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Would anyone know if the Willy Wonka LE play field is different than the other versions?

You already started a thread with this question and you were answered? Did you need a different answer? Still the same for both SE and LE. CE is different.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/willy-wonka-playfield-differences

I didnt get the alert that it had been answered, thanks for this. Btw, how much would a WWLE play field sell for?

I like this Marco post a lot.

The nylok nut against the T-nut would only make sense if the post were unthreading itself from the Tnut. It is not going to provide any extra load against the top of the playfield, nor any less load. It is worthless for anything but stopping the post from unthreading from the T-nut.

The only solution is to make the diameter of the post a tight fit to the hole as the BW games were. The shaft needs to be larger, or the hole drilled smaller at the factory. For those who want to stay with a T-nut it might be necessary to drill the hole larger above the T-nut so that the shaft can accommodate a metal sleeve in a common size. Using the above listed Marco post with a nylok nut and washer would be ideal if it is a tight fit to the factory diameter. I have no idea what size the factory hole is because I won't have my game for another month.

I will not hesitate to drill the hole larger to accommodate a full length sleeve and get rid of the T-nut when mine is new if the sizes work out to use some type of standard sized sleeve. They larger hole will never be noticed and it will provide some extra crush protection if you overtighten the post.

Anyone know what a good replacement for the upper pf post would be?

Also, anyone plan on 3D printing some sleeves for the over size holes?

Well I know that doing my B/W pf tear downs I always have to tap those posts out with a hammer from underneath. Snug fit always. Zero play from 1993-today.

But my question is how come the pooling always looks even circles around the posts? Seems that the cc would be more notecable on certain sides…

Good point.

I think in the case of the 2 posts in discussion here, the chipping is being caused by the one sided hit to the post from either the pop or the flipper. And because of the incorrect engineering, they’re moving a bit and the paint is chipping on the opposite side of the impact. But the pooling in general is just being caused by the downward pressure of the torqued screw/post/washer.

I’m just going through and fixing every post on my Wonka, and without exception, every post has pooling to some degree. Some you don’t notice until you remove them.

I’m lucky to have no chipping because mine is very low plays, but theres no question the chipping is coming from the paint not adhering to the wood. Mirco and JJP have a major problem here and it needs fixing.

And for me to damage proof this game is a huge job. I’m experienced in tearing down and re-populating Playfields. I have all the tools and a good workspace. And it’s still a huge job. I’ll be doing the same on GNR before I play it. But I shudder to think how a newb would attack this.

And there’s a big chance a newb could chip the paint just in the process of doing the preventative work.

These playfields are not fit for purpose. In 20 years time when someone does a tear down and restore of these games, the Playfields will be a mess. Maybe they’re suitable as a nice art piece, but nowhere even close to being suitable for a pinball machine.

And the clear is too soft. The paint is not adhering to the wood, but the clear is adhering to the paint. As a result the pooling clear is lifting the paint with it.

If I had to guess, Mirco is using UV to cure the clear because it’s fast and maybe it means they can use less harmful chemicals.

I believe the issue may be that the clear is being intentionally kept soft in order to prevent major chipping/flaking like we’ve seen on prior Mirco/JJP playfields. The underlying issue is the poor adhesion of the artwork to the wood.

The bond between the clear and the artwork is very strong however, so wherever the clear goes, the art goes with it.

Initially before washers were added to posts, the rotational force of installing the post would move the clear clockwise and it was shearing the art as the art separated from the wood and stayed bonded to the clear.

Then they added washers to the posts, but the downward force of the post installation (and bumps from the ball) caused the clear to be squeezed out from under the washer (again bringing the art with it). This is the circular pool pattern you are seeing - in the exact shape of the washer.

Yes but its all for the same reason - resisting movement. By being able to tighten and keep the post tight, you resist movement.

a snug fitting post does the same thing just with a different application of force. Both have the same end goal

A sleeved post would still have slop unless some is making a custom machined set with very high tolerances. Filling and redrilling the hole is probably more achievable.

Just buy it already and have a ton of fun!

If you buy it and then start posting about your playfield issues, you'll get no sympathy here.

Think you caused a run on the bank flynnibus - went to order these and they’ve just notified me they’re sold out!!!

Maybe JJP bought them all since later pics show they’re now using that on new builds.

Hopefully I managed to get some locally.

Got another idea for these posts also - will take some pics if it works.

Panzer don’t take a chance on this. It is still the same PF maker and same JJP problems all over the PF. Don’t believe that anything has been fixed, as JJP has been saying they fixed it for the last 4 games. Who needs to take that kind of huge risk with $10K???

This is a laugh a minute: “ JJP may be trying different washers and posts with latest builds”, who in their right mind wants washers covering and spotting their beautiful PF??? You’re fooling yourself and won’t be able to enjoy it with pooling, chipping, cracking and plain ugly, which will surely come to your PF down the road. Wait till TS to see if they’ve fixed it. In the meantime: I’ll send you a GNR greatest covers song hits CD and a lazer light machine to get near the same experience for a fraction of the price (under, $300 total including shipping, lol).

The playfields wont chip if you look after them and do preventitive work, but you've got to put in the time.

You’re kidding yourself if you think they’ve fixed anything as I stated above.

But for $10k plus, isn’t it crazy anyone has to put in the time to “fix” a brand new machine??? Like a car dealer telling us we will enjoy our Ferrari, if we just put in the time and extra money to protect Ferrari’s subcontractor’s lousy paint job from chipping, cracking, paint pooling, etc. lol.

What is pinball coming to that we want a title so badly we are willing to put up with this kind of bizarre nonsense from JJP, that we as a consumer have to fix all their manufacturing problems on a brand new machine???

No arguements on that here. It is ridiculous.

But to use your Carguement - Ferrari's probably arent the most high tech or reliable cars on the market. But they're Ferrari's - people buy them because they can afford it, they want the status, and for the emotion of owning and driving one. They put up with, and completely understand, the fact that you can buy a more reliable car. But life is too short to worry about that if you really really want a Ferrari and can afford one.

He is getting very close to the whole, well they should have taken care of it better, it's there own fault.

Nah, JJP's customer service sucks and they should be doing alot more than they're doing to look after their customers. It is ridiculous to spend 10 hours damage proofing your game before playing it. And if you dont, being given a washer to cover the chip.

The craziest part of all this is, any other industry would never get away with treating customers as poorly as JJP does and still stay in business. It honestly is mind blowing anyone puts up with such inferior product at these crazy high prices from JJP. It’s not that I don’t like their games, they are fine, its just their very poor quality that is so unacceptable.

Inconceivable!

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Your point is???

Stern, CGC, AP, Spooky all fixed their PF problems and are acceptable. JJP is now 4 games and counting and not fixed the same old tired worn out PF issues we are all experiencing.

Buying a JJP is like buying a Tesla. You need to believe.

So you're saying that... your GNR shipped via sea shipping arrives several months later... and the ink has already lifted ... and you can do preventative work to repair it?! Do tell.

By preventative; we all know the washers DO NOT work...
so what? put a Tarp iron on the PF after you nearly completely disassemble the PF? How much damage is done by the act of just removing the post and washer?

Seriously dude; don't minimize this. If you are convince this can be prevented; please do share and let JJP know so the rest of these poor SOBs don't have to deal with future PF shipments with pooling / torn ink.

My GnR ready to be delivered any day now.
I think I would have pulled out if I hadn’t bought a sh^t load of mods already.
Lior , Pinwoofer etc......
I’m hook, line and sinkered....
I guess I could still sell the mods.. hours are counting..

Not minimizing it at all. If it’s chipped before you open the box, that’s a different thing - obviously that can’t be fixed or prevented. But if it’s just pooling with no tearing, that can be fixed and prevented from becoming a serious problem.

But it’s a serious pain in the ass to do it, and by no means should anyone have to do it.

As for my GNR - will let you know when I get it. I anticipate it’ll be like my Wonka and POTC before it, but admittedly, you never know these days.

Just found out what JJP did…:

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i need a fix and was contemplating ordering a gnr LE from pinballstar but i am gonna pass. ap or chicago gaming releasing a new pin soon and i am gonna go that route. 5000 gnr LE's gonna be made i have at least 2 years to order one maybe they will fix the issues in that time i am not a gambling man and 10k is alot to gamble. i dont want to be this guy

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The difference with the auto industry and the brands with poor quality is - you drive you car back to the dealer and they fix it for free under a warranty

My point is that there are other industries with brands that have a strong following, yet have quality issues. People love Tesla because they have features no other car has, similar to why people love JJP.

This problem starts with Mirco and the ink adhesion issue. Yes, JJP is ultimately responsible for their total crap which is why I’ve been saying JJP should have left them many years ago. I’m sure they are wishing the same right now.

You see, pinball is kinda like cars ....