I think AP and CGC build quality is by far the best

AP all the way. I own Houdini and am anxiously awaiting their next release...especially since I now have money I will no longer be giving to JJP.

There are 2 above the top panty line, one on her left side and one on her right.

How embarrassing for JJP not to say anything. And what are they gonna do when they announce the next title? Pretend GNR didn’t happen? They are going to get owned kind of like Deeproot got owned for hiring J-Pop and then pretending like he didn’t rip everyone off. Eric and Trust Fund Brett are reading these and if you think you guys are not gonna get slammed, well good luck. I think the prior issues weren’t a big deal, well because not many people bought WW nor POTC (100s). Now that they are selling thousands of GNRs with even worse Playfield issues expect some noise. “Hey guys, get excited about our new Pinball game Thrift Store Toy Story with the same shitty QA, Mirco disappearing art playfields, and no warranty games. But we have better washers now. And pay no attention to those old GNRs, those issues have been solved”. Clownshow

People have already told you they are going to continue to buy them. They don’t care if the playfields are shit, they will buy them anyway.

And there’s a lot of people that are going to light up JJP when they finally quit being pussies and show up trying to sell another brick

I heard Icemans is well!

THIS is why JJP GnR Pinball playfields are Chipping, video link:

Wow that video sure is revealing. What a rookie design for the posts. This not the whole problem though; this is just an idiotic design for the post holes that makes the problem with the clearcoat pooling and artwork de-laminating even worse.

JJP should fix the design and drill the holes properly as noted in the video. My suggestion to people who own this game is to remove these posts and add a small ring of heat shrink around the shaft above where the threads go into the T-nut, and then another over the first one and another until the post barely fits back down into the playfield to be screwed in. You need to eliminate as much play as possible. Someone who owns this game and a 3D printer might be able to make sleeves that will serve this purpose. Or maybe there is some nylon tubing with the right inner and outer diameter that could be cut and slip over the post and just barely fit into the hole to hold the post snug?

Exactly

First person the mfg the correct & successful post size that doesn’t chip or pool is gonna make a boat load of money. They should patent the design & size so JJP can pay a premium for them

And most importantly after JJP FIXED the light board issue once and for all and offered at or near cost replacement kits that were rock solid to owners of the machine. WoZ didn't magically appreciate because people FORGOT about the major lighting problem that plagued it for years, but because there was a very good fix in the end that took care of it once and for all.

Ah ok, so the hole in the playfield is too large ? , allowing too much give/play in the post.
So will a B/W post fit in place of the 2 or 3 problem areas ?

I intend to install Cliffy carbon washers and PETG clears, looking at the video the thread length of the metal posts will not be long enough to accommodate these. Can anyone provide part # for a suitable post with longer thread please. I am guessing only need 2 of these ? Remove T nut and install washer and nut under playfield. Perhaps JJP could supply a kit with service bulletin ?

I don't believe so. They're already using standard B/W parts. The hole in the wood appears to have been made much larger than needed for a high-impact area. Seems like some kind of sleeve to immobilize the post in the hole might be the right path.

Excellent job JJP. I would actually consider buying one if they had less issues.

Ah, nice call Vic,
Yeah a perspex sleeve or something similar may be a good fix.

They made a very complicated pin. It's surprising they don't have more issues than they do. Note that this is NO DEFENSE for the TERRIBLE way JJP is treating their customers with these playfield issues that are THEIR FAULT.

But, if immobilizing the posts with much smaller holes and locking nuts and washers underneath the playfield is the answer, then it's a pretty easy solution for JJP/ Highclasspinball to implement or at least TEST with some willing high play customers that would be thrilled to get a populated playfield of the new type with smaller post holes to play hard for a month or so. Hogbog should suggest this. Zaphx would be a prime candidate since he puts a LOT of games on GnR in a short amount of time, but checking now, he appears to have been chased off pinside for being reasonable.

A Perspex sleeve or even Perspex without the hole, you could just drill the hole.

Or metal spacer washers?

What about the posts under the slingshots they are chipping as well. Do you have any ideas why those areas are chipping?

I think perspex would be too fragile. Wood or metal sleeve is probably the answer.

Could this help?

https://www.belmetric.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=11713&cPath=3_1500_1802&gclid=CjwKCAjw2ZaGBhBoEiwA8pfP_gDIXJ2_c_oQyLcC8_cbVtes6jj3ACSm8ccnyRBeC3v5Jl5luzlD0hoCzA0QAvD_BwE&zenid=a6mhn2n6cfmbrtr6c9fptka5f1

A longer nut to fill space and hold tighter?

Why can't JJP just come up with a post that has a larger diameter shaft to fit that hole ? Wouldn't that be the simple answer and make the thread longer for a better bite....

I *guess* that could help in conjunction with a tighter hole in the playfield that immobilizes the shaft, but for existing machines, you need something to take up the slack in the hole. Especially in the pop area where the forces are hard, the post will likely still move even with the longer T-nut.

Mold time, cost, and R&D for that new part is more than just changing the playfields from here on out. I doubt they'd do that since a smaller hole seem like ultimately what they need.

Maybe something like this on the top side of the PF (just a quick google search)?
pasted_image (resized).png

Why not fill the holes with epoxy and redrill? Why all the insert, 3d printed spacer drama?

Most people aren't skilled enough to do that. If you can, great. But an insert sleeve would allow these to be fixed in the field by virtually anyone.

This is what I was thinking.

Fill hole with 2 part expoxy. Drill out from bottom run thread cutter through TNut and epoxy.

Didn't think using glue and a drill was rocket science, but ok. But I'm guessing there are a few out there who do and would.

Karma is an ugly thing if ignored. JJP’s silence on the many issues they’re facing is not surprising, as they’ve done this on 3 or 4 games before. History will most likely repeat itself on TS, not to be outdone. Here’s hoping JJP finally gets it figured out some how. Poor Mirco, always getting blamed for JJPs poor engineering of PF holes being overly loose, it would seem.

Stainless Steel binding posts seem like a good idea. Maybe one of the few of us that don’t have damaged PF could try it? Although, maybe if we look at the crinkling, cracking, pooling, chipping GNR PFs as just being apart of the gothic artwork, that might do too, lol.

I would think if Mirco wanted to pass the buck literally to JJP, they would take a playfield, bolt a bunch of posts and rubbers all over it and tighten all the posts from loose to over tight and mark each one with the torque applied and then set up a routine to randomly launch and flip balls using an old gottlieb auto flipper switches. Now see which posts pool and chip, and determine the exact torque requirements and then make sure JJP is aware of max torque setting. Done.

And this will prove what when the new owner changes the rubbers the first week they get it? You going to ship a torque wrench with every game. Just fix the playfields is the easy answer.

That is part of the reason they chip but not why they pool

You have to walk before you can run. IF this is the solution to one of the main issues, it's a big step forward and a sliver of light at the end of the tunnel.

Oh, there are plenty that can manage epoxying and drilling, but it's a small fraction of the total owner base so far.

Those that own a GNR, maybe go to tour local hobby shop, and you can purchase brass round tubes and cut to size and slide onto the pinball post shaft before inserting onto playfield to get that snug fit within the wood.

Example of the brass tubes I'm talking about
https://www.hobbytools.com.au/metal-tube-round/

That's interesting. Now that he mentions it, I think the post holes for those posts on vintage games are pretty snug. When I pull them out, the threads usually drag against the hole.

Maybe throw a tube spacer on the post's threads to prevent the post from wiggling? I don't have the necessary measurements off-hand, so this is just an example image:

pasted_image (resized).png

Quick fix is to wrap it with an thin adhesive tape so it does not wiggle. I'm sure a machinist could also engineer some replacement post. That seems like the best fix. That would be an easy thing to fix the production line. I seriously doubt JJP is going to fix this problem as it would probably bankrupt the company. I had a Willy Wonka with some subtle issues that I sold off, I found it to repetitive but I'll still pay to play it.

Really hope JJP rethinks their product a bit and starts going for Quality. Build them tough like American Pinball ( I have ZERO dimples on my Hot Wheels )

You know, you guys are acting like Stern was great when their playfield issues surfaced...

They addressed the problems, and didn’t ignore owners who had the problems.

I know it’s hilarious right? I thought Stern was always perfect? Maybe people weren’t around long enough to remember the non stop outrage and corresponding silence from Stern.

It’s the daily drama machine that will go away over time and JJP will get it fixed like Stern did

What if you were to use a longer T-nut? I know they make ones where the barrel is longer in length, just not sure it would be long enough. I believe the ones JJP uses are #8-32 and the barrel is 1/4" so if they make one that the barrel is 1/2"????? I guess the first question would be is .... is the hole also too big for the t-nut as well?

I remember but Stern seems to have stepped up their game whereas JJP has raised their prices but not their quality

I hope so, because I requested that my distributor delay delivery until JJP publicly addresses the issue and indicates some type of fix.

Problem with your assessment Icey is Stern is a big boy and capable of fixing issues (albeit slow at times). JJP is a little boy and just pouts in the school yard all day, with little to no action and has a history now of 4 games same issues, never fixed. TS will be a fifth most likely. Lol

I would assume the hole is just about the exact size for the t-nut. In fact, that's why the hole is so large, to accommodate the t-nut. A longer t-nut seems like a good idea.

Didn't Bally/Williams just pound the t-nuts in with a mallet, or did they countersink the t-nut hole? I always thought the t-nut was hammered into the undersized hole, leaving the narrow hole on the artwork side to help hold the post from displacement?

Sure hoping this isn’t true…

933AD40E-59B6-4EC3-9EEF-79374AEC6D06 (resized).jpeg lol

The posts that took a pounding like next to a ramp entrance didn't use T-Nuts underneath. The holes were cut so tight the post basically had to be threaded through the wood if not hit with a hammer and then a nylock nut and washer below the playfield. Literally no play in this setup. Places that used T-nuts were generally spots that didn't get whacked as hard like flipper lanes. Even still the t-nut barely fit into the hole and it was still tighter above than the silly Gnr design. I have no way to prove it, but I will bet the posts on the Pat Lawlor JJP games are not like this.

You get a downvote for this.
They've had ample time... and FOUR_ games to fix it.
It's clear you have drunk the koolaid.
I'm of the camp that believe JJP gives no care they they are shipping garbage... cause people like you continue to buy.