Nothing, I had to buy another upper playfield and do the swap out. Thank goodness it was fairly easy.

I think the chipping on the WOZ mini-playfields is a completely different situation as the actual edge of the playfield is exposed and gets hit HARD by balls often. It would have been nice if they had included a factory protector for this but I don't think it compares to the issues we're seeing with artwork coming up around posts.

Yep, Jack sent me a PF because I was a pain in his ass but it was a garbage one so i had to buy one. I didnt care for the game so I sole the PF and the game at the same time.

Does it have faux/real cliffys on it?
The chipping issues are around the sim/phone slots

Dimpling wasn't really the issue. Cracking and chipping at the SIM and Phone holes was the major problem. Happened within 50 plays on the NIB one we had. Jack eventually put real cliffies on the holes, but that took like 9 months of playing around with their terrible protector designs that sucked before he gave in.

Here's a picture when I put the Cliffy on. This was around 100 plays at this point and is representative of the kind of damage others were also reporting at the time...

Dialed_In_Chipping (resized).jpg

They do.

I’ve owned a couple of DIs and no problems, my current one was made in summer of ‘17. I know the SIM card area chipped in some, but am not aware of more widespread problems. In fact, this is one reason I bought another rather than gamble on GnR. At TPF 2018, Mirco told me he had recently bought a new very expensive digital printer, so I’m guessing late ‘17/early ‘18 may be the beginning of this problem.

Yeah, Bader has gotten their act together and are putting out quality PFs now. JJP should kiss and make up.

My guess is JJP has been looking for another play field manufacturer for a while with no luck. They clearly know this is an issue, but aside from doing it themselves or paying a higher price per unit their stuck with Mirco. Mirco probably knows this, which is probably why my guess is he told them he's not replacing play fields after JJP inspects and installs components. Otherwise why wouldn't JJP just send out replacement play fields? Sounds to me like Mirco said "not on my dime" so JJP is just following suit.

Shipping a slew of playfields from overseas can't be cheap either. Hopefully JJP can get back to Bader, but reading some comments early on here it doesn't look like that can/will happen.

Meh. They've had 4 years. JJP was not helpless to come up with another solution, even if that was doing them in-house. 4 years is a LONG time for playfield R&D, and they could have started small and just seeded some JJP-made playfields in with their Mirco runs to see how the JJP ones held up in the field before fully committing.

There are options. Pretty clear that Mirco has to eventually go.

Clearly JJP doesn't want to front the cost/overhead to do them in house. They can't ditch Mirco until they have a realistic plan B, which clearly hasn't happened. Like you said they've had 4 years and have made no progress. My guess is Mirco isn't going anywhere, because JJP has no options.

I think for at least 2 of those years they were buying Mirco's non-stop BS that he could fix the problems. It's pretty clear now that he can't or won't. JJP can't afford to keep down this path and it should be pretty clear now that Mirco is hurting them substantially, so they have to MAKE the plan B and execute. Hoping it's already in motion. For their sake.

I can't imagine Mirco is so much cheaper with shipping to USA than finding someone in the states or bringing it in house. You would think it would be beneficial to possibly pay a little more for better quality control.

I've said it before but if they could get Peter from Germany doing them I think they'd have some leverage on Mirco and better PFs, of course Peter may not have nearly enough capacity for a game as popular as GNR. I have no idea how big their operation is.

Why dont you admit the real reason you’re PRO JJP and feel the need to always comment about one of us that was wronged, i sold my piece of shit LE, but i still comment about the lack of customer service or support provided by JJP. Doesn't matter if he got an unpopulated playfield, its like chevy sending you a new transmission to replace on your own. Its fucking stupid, not everyone can work on a pinball machine, just like not everyone can do root canal.

Yep once all the dimples join together in one big mass, it doesn't look so bad.

ee41c402a1b1254ecdb77f0ecb6f1c9ee4e4f343 (resized).jpg

The UPF gets clobbered by airballs off the wand target, that is what causes the chipping on the edge. Nothing at all to do with manufacture quality in this case.

There were other issues with WOZ PFs, but UPF chipping is solely a design issue.

I totally agree, but like you said its been 4 years with zero changes so my guess is it will stay the same. Especially since sales and revenue are up

Here's what I don't get: Why don't they just stop clearcoating the problem area's. Can't they just mask the critical positions with a small rubber plug during coating? So that the post sits on bare wood?

If you can't work on pinball machines, you probably shouldn't own them... Playfield swaps are a different animal of course but again, if you can work on your machine I'll bet you can do a swap...

Jeff

Heres a thought. Those PFs are put into a shipping container and sent across the Atlantic. Could the salt moisture be what is causing the issues. Are people in Europe having the same problems?

Can't be possible can it? A good pf?

I think people that have issues are just F ed with no reasonable recourse options and JJP will just have to be satisfied with losing that future business.

You can be like Wes, ZR11990 and be a major pain in the ass with JJP and you might get somewhere! .

Hey Wes, i need a light board and pf swap on my Woz, come on over from Houston, all the beer you can drink!

Please read what I wrote and leave me out of your personal crusade. He’s a good guy and said they refused to give him a replacement playfield. He acknowledged he did get one and no further question was asked. I’m not pro anything so nothing to admit or argue with you.

My distributor got an email from Barry today about my GNRCE. They will buy it back and I have until June 7th to make my mind up. If I decline, no other resolution will be offered. They know no CE owner will do this (I think) so it’s a easy way out for them.

What are your thoughts? From your pics yours it’s pretty bad so a tough decision.

They are giving you a full refund on a defective machine. Correct?

It's crazy because if they offered an at-cost playfield for like $500, I think most people would be satisfied (not happy, satisfied). This buyback is the worst possible route because most people WANT to keep the machine. They don't want to give it back, but JJP isn't giving the REASONABLE option.

Exactly. You nailed it. I want the damn pin. I love it except for the playfield. I have been offered 17k as is but I don’t want the $. I don’t need the $. I just want a better playfield. Jesus Christ!!

Does this include them refunding all payments, including original shipping and tax, and also them paying to have the game removed from your house, packed and shipped back to JJP?

If so, I'd say that's reasonable, and JJP can justify it by claiming lack of replacement parts to send.

If they aren't willing to cover all shipping and handling costs both ways, that is very bad. No customer should be out money when the product is faulty out of the box.

Yes they would. They said in an email but I don’t want to sell it.

Have you communicated that to Barry? That you'd pay for an at-cost playfield and be okay with that, even if it was the promise of that playfield at the end of the run? I mean, it's a REASONABLE accommodation. This "no soup for you" nonsense is not.

I’m not sure. I didn’t even ask my distributor. I just told them to tell Barry I decline on their offer.

Yes they know I would take a unpopulated playfield. It’s not a option.

I totally understand. I am sure you will be able to get another PF at some point. Yes you will have to repopulate but if you really want the pin hang in there. In the meantime just tell yourself you will eventually get that new PF and play the heck out of your game.

JJP: "We know we're shipping junk and would prefer not to ship replacement junk until we can figure out a way to not make junk."

Good luck everyone. Keep the games; I bet they'll eventually make proper replacement playfields for you.

When I get time I will have to do a complete tear down and put washers where needed. Pain in the ass on a 5 month old game but oh well. In the meantime my league guys are going to want to play but I can’t let them. The more it’s played the worse it gets.

The whole buy back is JJP just calling your bluff. On paper I guess it’s a fair deal, but in reality we’re not dealing with replaceable commodities. It’s basically them saying “if you’re really that unhappy with it, we’ll buy it back, but if you don’t take the offer, then it proves our point that it’s not a big deal in the first place.”

I really don’t understand not selling you a replacement pf - even if it’s 6 months down the track. That makes absolutely no sense.

I’m pretty sure they will sell you a replacement playfield, I was basically told as much. After production though, not sure if the case is different with CEs. Maybe they don’t have any more CE playfields.

This, is why we are so angered by this entire thing. They simply don't care.

That’s probably the issue. And rather than put then pressure on Mirco to make a run of spares, they’re going down the buyback path.

Honestly, if they made a run of 500 spare Ce pf’s for each they’d sell all of them - most guys spending $12500 on a ce that’s now worth $17-20k wouldn’t think twice about spending another $1000-$1500 as insurance.

Devil’s advocate mode:

I think from JJPs perspective, buying back the games IS the most reasonable option.

It is not impossible that there may be some form of a “write-off” or other means by which JJP can mitigate some of the financial losses this will incur, and that by offering full refunds they will satisfy any legal obligations to the buyer and absolve themselves of being compelled to go to the trouble and expense of undertaking a long, drawn-out effort to customize the “solutions” to each individual buyer. Let bygones be bygones, chalk it up as a big fiasco and try to learn something, and press onward to the next title.

It sucks if you are the owner of one of the defective ones and prefer to keep your game and make it “right”, but that’s an emotional thing and outside the scope of the legal and corporate concerns that dictate the reality of the situation.

Frankly, I think it’s a small miracle that the refund option even exists in the first place. Given JJPs apparently marginal customer service of late I figured the “best” solution that could have been hoped for would have been a replacement unpopulated playfield, so if I were a disgruntled owner I’d literally jump at the opportunity to walk away from the mess financially unscathed!

Some folks’ inability to think about this stuff with their heads rather than their hearts is truly to their detriment!

Sincerely best of luck, I know this is a grail pin for you and hope you can do whatever it takes to continue enjoying the game again.

I would sell it back and charge them $1000 extra to wrap and pallet it, then just duct tape it to a pallet, legs on, backbox up and send it on its merry way... what's good for the goose...

I personally took JJP up on the buyback offer in February, and have never received a call as promised. This was on an SE. Maybe if I had a CE they would have called me back. I have my doubts anyone has received one dime back from JJP.

Sounds good, but I was told

"The boxing material will be sent out.

After the game is boxed a pickup is scheduled.

Once we receive the machine, we check it out.

A refund will then be issued."

Assuming they even contact you back you wont receive one dime until they inspect the game for further damage. So JJP reserves the right to inspect for damage that YOU may have done to the machine, just not the other way around.

I am wondering if they are flown in. My Dracula field was 3 day DHL I believe. I'm sure Air flight is more costly versus container bunker fuel shipping.

And as long as this community keeps buying with ever increasing prices, it'll stay that way.

Stockholm Syndrome in this hobby is unmatched.

I was told this same exact thing. Word for word, at least they are consistent.

Well said and that's a great remedy JJP is offering. I thought they were crickets and doing nothing?

Sell it back and move on and maybe buy another one later down the road.