(Topic ID: 259139)

Why is it good to produce a crap load of pinballs?


By pinballOsp

3 months ago



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  • 87 posts
  • 43 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 months ago by o-din
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    There are 87 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
    #1 3 months ago

    I made a thread about the generic playfields Stern is producing and reading the unfinished coding and quality issues threads two common retorts are

    1. if you don't like this one, wait 3 months and another one will be out
    2. we should be grateful we have this many pinballs available

    thus saying that the quantity of new pinballs is somehow a good thing.

    I thought about this and was reminded of a conversation from Ford vs Ferrari (I'm paraphrasing)
    "We make more cars in a day than Ferrari makes in a year"
    "Yeah but a Ferrari means something and a Ford doesn't"

    I want my pinballs to be like Ferraris. I don't NEED a pinball every 3 months, that's just insane. But I want them to mean something, especially if it's going to cost me 6-10K !

    So I have no idea why it is a good thing to produce pinballs at the current rate and quality.

    36
    #2 3 months ago
    Quoted from pinballOsp:

    I have no idea why it is a good thing to produce pinballs at the current rate and quality.

    Some companies are in the business of making money.

    21
    #3 3 months ago
    Quoted from pinballOsp:

    So I have no idea why it is a good thing to produce pinballs at the current rate and quality.

    shhh, dont tell anyone, but there was three companies in the 60s 70s 80s producing 10 new titles each per year

    #4 3 months ago
    Quoted from pinballOsp:

    2. we should be grateful we have this many pinballs available
    thus saying that the quantity of new pinballs is somehow a good thing.

    I think what they meant was it is good to have so many companies actively producing pins now it's good for pinball as a whole.

    17
    #5 3 months ago
    Quoted from pinballOsp:

    I want my pinballs to be like Ferraris.

    So you want a pinball machine that costs a shitload to fix every time something goes wrong with it?

    #6 3 months ago
    Quoted from pinballOsp:

    I want my pinballs to be like Ferraris. I don't NEED a pinball every 3 months, that's just insane. But I want them to mean something, especially if it's going to cost me 6-10K !

    JJP is this way => https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/forum/jersey-jack-pinball
    Spooky is that way => https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/forum/spooky-pinball

    #7 3 months ago

    I for one do like the rate Stern is pumping out pins at and the direction in which these titles have developed in the last few years. Not every pin is great but maybe once in two years there is a machine I'd consider to be a potential keeper.

    JJP makes titles for children and old people with rules for über-pros. Spooky is unobtainable in Europe.

    #8 3 months ago

    I am happy with all the new pinball machines.
    If I like a machine a lot, I will buy it. If I don’t like it, I will play it in a bar.

    #9 3 months ago

    It means pinball as a whole is healthy. Remember there are people outside of the pinside echo chamber that are excited for the current state of the hobby and the game itself. Stern has a specific business model and it's around manufacturing as many fun titles as possible for a reasonable price. Accomplishing that takes concessions on other things like number of toys on the playfield and a cheapening on some materials.
    It's clear Stern has taken the direction lately of investing in code over toys for their games. There used to be incessant complaints about lack of code updates and they have improved by hiring new programmers and completing comittments on older games like GB.
    For operators like myself, I prefer this strategy. It makes the games rock solid with much fewer service calls. Players get bored of toys quickly. Like the hand on TAF get so old and annoying. You're just killing the gameplay.

    Producing so many games of course some are going to be winners and some will be losers.
    Also theme draws people into machines and the layout keeps them playing. I'm glad Stern is experimenting with so many themes to satisfy such a broad segment of the market.

    There are plenty of Ferrari games already out there and more to come. Don't get caught up in the pinside echo chamber. It's a tiny group of loud individuals and doesn't represent the hobby as a whole.
    You can always get your game restored by HEP and have a perfect example if you want to drop the coin.
    Unfortunately I believe the market for that level of game is incredibly small.

    My two cents.

    #10 3 months ago

    Stern can churn out 15k pins per year and does, allowing them to pay their employees and make a profit. Problem is their customers don’t all want the same title, so they must build a mix of titles to create enough total demand. The annual demand for any title varies from 500 to a few thousand units so they need to run current titles plus new ones.

    Demand for a title is influenced by price, yet Stern doesn’t primarily use pricing to alter demand. Instead their strategy is to release a variety of titles and keeps their pricing level relatively high to higher.

    #11 3 months ago
    Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:

    Stern can churn out 15k pins per year and does, allowing them to pay their employees and make a profit. Problem is their customers don’t all want the same title, so they must build a mix of titles to create enough total demand. The annual demand for any title varies from 500 to a few thousand units so they need to run current titles plus new ones.
    Demand for a title is influenced by price, yet Stern doesn’t primarily use pricing to alter demand. Instead their strategy is to release a variety of titles and keeps their pricing level relatively high to higher.

    Also keeping quality down.

    #12 3 months ago

    Stern's release schedule is built around what their factory produces and needs to be kept busy. When sales begin to flag, the next title is rolled out.

    This is exactly the same model that Spooky follows, but instead of needing to make 50 machines a day Spooky makes 2. Charlie releases new titles when his team needs something new to build (like how they finished Alice Cooper and now moved to Rick and Morty and we won't see a new Spooky game announcement until 2021).

    #13 3 months ago

    Maybe it’s hit or miss but I bought several (6 in 12 years) Stern nib pins and they’ve been fine quality. XMLE needed a new Aux board. Other than that great quality. Too soon to call SW premium but so far 2 months it’s been great not a single issue. I was staying away from Spike pins I’m a bit scared of node boards but not scared enough to pass up SW.

    As for too many pins by Stern that’s not a concern for me I’ll buy one every 2-3 years so I can pick and choose the few I like. They don’t all need to be home runs.

    #14 3 months ago

    There is no guarantee that "fewer" equals "better".
    I'm happy to see at least one higher volume producer, and multiple smaller output manufacturers.
    We could easily be back to one (and only one) manufacturer, or none at all.

    #15 3 months ago

    The other thing to consider is games stay in production at Stern for at least 3 years. There's about 10 different titles you can order from them currently? There's no need to buy on day 1.

    #16 3 months ago
    Quoted from pinballOsp:

    I want my pinballs to be like Ferraris. I don't NEED a pinball every 3 months, that's just insane. But I want them to mean something, especially if it's going to cost me 6-10K !

    Do you drive a Ferraris or do you drive something more comparable to a ford? If a 6K stern is a ford that means you need 60K to get the pinball equivalent. Have fun with that, I'm sure a few dummies would still buy it.

    #17 3 months ago

    I saw that movie to, You do realize Ferrari got beat by Ford and got bought by Fiat then Chrysler/Dodge up until a few years ago when the separated companies. JJP is trying to be Ferrari but it has to be a passion project and the economy has to stay strong. Stern is the Ford company that is more attainable and spreads the enthusiasm for Pinball Internationally. Most people aren’t going to be able to afford a Ferrari and JJP has even decided to a go with less in the future because 1 flop or bad license stings yards when that’s what your entire fiscal year is banking on. HEP games are like the Ferrari’s of the hobby. Ferrari’s also aren’t daily drivers and that’s one thing no one gives Stern credit for. No one wants to works on these things except for some older retired guys or people that do it for a living. How many times do you see WOZ’s in arcades or shows turned off?

    11
    #18 3 months ago

    Why is it good to produce a crapload of new dumb threads?

    #19 3 months ago

    I'm perfectly happy with Ford pins. Keep them coming. The more the better. Nobody needs even one but fun if you can afford them.

    #20 3 months ago

    The only thing I would say is maybe Stern should let them bake a little longer. The raw cookie dough is a bit much sometimes.

    #21 3 months ago
    Quoted from fattdirk:

    It means pinball as a whole is healthy.

    More like it means the economy as a whole has been healthy. Just look back ten years if you would like a comparison.

    #22 3 months ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    Why is it good to produce a crapload of new dumb threads?

    (Paraphrased from post number 1)

    If you don't like this thread just wait 3 minutes and there will be another one.
    We should be grateful there are this many threads available.

    In other words threads are a quantity thing, not quality.

    #23 3 months ago
    Quoted from TheGunnett:

    JJP is trying to be Ferrari... ...Stern is the Ford company

    Does that mean Deeproot is DeLorean?

    #24 3 months ago
    Quoted from RatShack:

    Does that mean Deeproot is DeLorean?

    Edsel

    #25 3 months ago

    I don't know, that's giving them a lot of credit

    #26 3 months ago
    Quoted from TheLaw:

    I don't know, that's giving them a lot of credit

    61bYnt9EZ8L._SX466_ (resized).jpg
    #27 3 months ago

    I want a Toyota pin, who makes those? Affordable, DEPENDABLE, easily repaired, did I say dependable? Just took my 98 Landcruiser to the Dealer to be checked out, 200K and nothing wrong. Nothing.

    #28 3 months ago
    Quoted from pinballOsp:

    So I have no idea why it is a good thing to produce pinballs at the current rate and quality.

    Whats wrong with the quality? I mean the rate thing is just ridiculous. More games more choice better all around.

    #29 3 months ago
    Quoted from Hazoff:

    Whats wrong with the quality?

    The quality of a lot of the themes leaves a lot to be desired. Bargain basement themes for the most part.

    #30 3 months ago

    i have no idea why it’s a good idea to produce threads at this current rate and quality.

    #31 3 months ago
    Quoted from pinballOsp:

    why it is a good thing to produce pinballs at the current rate and quality

    You might as well ask why's a tree good? Why's a sunset good? Why are boobs good? They just are!

    #32 3 months ago

    Judging from Posters declaring they will no longer purchase Stern due to unresolved quality issues sales should have dropped 25%. It is no secret Stern is producing machines with built in obsolescence with NLA parts showing up for relatively recent Titles. These will never live long enough to become Classics. They make money when a NIB sells, so they must keep banging out new Titles to keep the cash registers ringing.

    #33 3 months ago
    Quoted from phil-lee:

    Judging from Posters declaring they will no longer purchase Stern due to unresolved quality issues sales should have dropped 25%.

    If you add in all the other issues making them swear to never buy Sterns I think it's more like 136%.
    No wonder Stern has to make so many!

    #34 3 months ago
    Quoted from pinballOsp:

    I want my pinballs to be like Ferraris.

    https://www.motor1.com/features/345015/how-much-is-a-ferrari/ $200 K to $300 K ?

    That would kill the hobby and location pins.

    LTG : (

    #35 3 months ago
    Quoted from phil-lee:

    Judging from Posters declaring they will no longer purchase Stern due to unresolved quality issues sales should have dropped 25%.

    So this isn't a joke? You genuinely believe Stern's sales have dropped 25 percent in the last year or so?

    Posts like this are why people in the industry point and laugh at Pinside.

    #36 3 months ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    So this isn't a joke? You genuinely believe Stern's sales have dropped 25 percent in the last year or so?

    It says sales "should have"...based on "posters declaring they will no longer purchase"...not that they actually did. You going to actually read posts before you comment on them?

    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    People in the industry point and laugh at pinside. It's a never-ending source of comedy.

    Oh yeah? They laugh at a site encompassing 63,295 hobbyists, at least a portion of which are their sales base for every new NIB they pump out? I always forget that you are Gary Stern's best friend, Charlie's best friend, etc. You befriending the guys at American Pinball too?

    10
    #37 3 months ago
    Quoted from Colsond3:

    Oh yeah? They laugh at a site encompassing 63,295 hobbyists, at least a portion of which are their sales base for every new NIB they pump out? I always forget that you are Gary Stern's best friend, Charlie's best friend, etc. You befriending the guys at American Pinball too?

    What in God's name are you blathering about? You sound like you just took a hit from Jadaveon Clowney.

    Yes, they laugh at this site. It's a never-ending river of bad information and uninformed opinions on what it takes to stay in business as a pinball manufacturer. If Pinside ran any of the existing companies, they'd be out of business in a week!

    And you know it!

    #38 3 months ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    What in God's name are you blathering about? You sound like you just took a hit from Jadaveon Clowney.

    I’m stuck on you using the word blathering.

    #39 3 months ago
    Quoted from phil-lee:

    They make money when a NIB sells, so they must keep banging out new Titles to keep the cash registers ringing.

    How does Stern make money other than NIB sales? OEM parts like any other manufacturer? Sure some...but if the NIB game isn't selling neither is the OEM part.

    To keep with the original car analogy, how does Ferrari make money from a car becoming a "classic"? Increased sales of their newest model based on brand? Sounds familiar.

    #40 3 months ago
    Quoted from Colsond3:

    I’m stuck on you using the word blathering.

    Boys boys! Clam down, or take this to PM... This thread is about how the hobby needs less pinball machines

    #41 3 months ago
    Quoted from fisherdaman:

    Boys boys! Clam down, or take this to PM... This thread is about how the hobby needs less pinball machines

    OP wants less pinball machines, but to be fair he also wants them to be more expensive.

    #42 3 months ago
    Quoted from fisherdaman:

    Boys boys! Clam down, or take this to PM... This thread is about how the hobby needs less pinball machines

    He didn't say less, he just wants to know what the value is in a crap load.

    #43 3 months ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    Yes, they laugh at this site. It's a never-ending river of bad information and uninformed opinions

    And at least I’ll say this. It’s good to know that a lot of people on here are full of shit, that say they are no longer buying Stern games with all the issues, but then still continue to do so.

    Now I know I can skip over that next “My Stern Playfield is dimpling!” thread.

    #44 3 months ago

    I would like my pinballs to be Ferraris at Yugo prices.

    If some manufacturer used that as a slogan, people would be lining up to buy them.

    #45 3 months ago
    Quoted from fisherdaman:

    Boys boys! Clam down, or take this to PM... This thread is about how the hobby needs less pinball machines

    Just having fun. I want people to keep buying NIB’s. Makes all the other older games that much more available for me.

    #46 3 months ago

    Because when there are lots of companies producing lots of different machines, you get more variety. Yeah, Stranger Things and Elvira are boring fan layouts, but look at Jurassic Park, Iron Maiden, Beatles, Willy Wonka, TNA, Rick and Morty, Oktoberfest, Houdini, Deadpool, etc.

    So...I'm not sure what you're asking for here. Have only one game released per year, but make it so special and catered to your tastes that you will be sure to buy it (and not have to suffer through releases of games that don't interest you)?

    Which era of pinball would you prefer to be living in? If you don't need a new machine every 3 months, then you're living in a great time for pinball. Once per year, just pick your favorite of the 10 machines released in the last 12 months and buy it.

    #47 3 months ago
    Quoted from Colsond3:

    And at least I’ll say this. It’s good to know that a lot of people on here are full of shit, that say they are no longer buying Stern games with all the issues, but then still continue to do so.
    Now I know I can skip over that next “My Stern Playfield is dimpling!” thread.

    Complaining is free. Starting dumb threads is free. Claiming you were buying Stern games three times a year and now refuse to buy any is also free.

    Unfortunately none of that shit actually gets you a pinball machine. So despite all the over the top posturing the NIB addicts here will keep buying Sterns because they remain the cheapest and best games on the market and the only ones you can have in your home a day after they are announced.

    #48 3 months ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    What in God's name are you blathering about? You sound like you just took a hit from Jadaveon Clowney.

    Finally, an actual cheap shot involving clowney

    #49 3 months ago
    Quoted from TheLaw:

    Finally, an actual cheap shot involving clowney

    LMAO!!!

    nice

    #50 3 months ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    He didn't say less, he just wants to know what the value is in a crap load.

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