(Topic ID: 254874)

Why is Co-op Mode not in every modern game?

By joelbob

4 years ago


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“Should Co-op mode be available in every modern game. ”

  • Heck yes. Great feature that is needed. 66 votes
    80%
  • No thank you. Don't waste the developer's time. 16 votes
    20%

(82 votes)

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#35 4 years ago

I wish more games had multiple options to fit the wide variety of player skills and settings between location, home, and tournament. What is there is mostly minor variations of the same core code.

Like let an operator set a location game to default to novice mode if they know it's mostly novices at the location (something like unlimited balls and a hard three minute time limit). But let the pinball players know that doing something like holding down the left flipper button while pressing start opens up additional options for how they might want to play the game (traditional play, tournament play, co-op play, and other differently coded modes of game)

Of course it might not help increase sales that much, but I still think it would be beneficial to multiple people in the hobby overall.

#40 4 years ago
Quoted from Rager170:

Funny enough, this does remind me of video games also. But the difference is that games that expanded its designs are not score based most of the time.

It'd be interesting if pinball adopted a percentage complete statistic. Games that don't easy lend themselves to scores will often include a percentage of how much of the content has been finished.

It would also work well whenever games can connect online and provide some modicum of persistent player progression over multiple sessions. Persistent player progression tracking pioneered by Call of Duty 4 has become the standard in video games. Even if you have a bad game, you're still progressing towards *something* (and combine this concept with the right theme, such as Pokemon, and you have a bona-fide hit)

#43 4 years ago
Quoted from joelbob:

If online connectivity does become available then you could end up with achievement tracking. It could track if you competed every mode individually, or all in one game. Hit a certain number of combos, etc. Basically giving you tasks to complete besides just high score.

An achievement system would be incredible for games like JJ POTC. Achievements for exploring the wide breadth of content, trying different character combos, getting rare rewards, etc... It would always give the player something else to shoot for.

Yes people can take off the glass and cheat. Yet people cheat online all the time and it still hasn't stopped video games from greatly benefiting from connected play.

#45 4 years ago
Quoted from Hazoff:

This says it all for me in terms of exactly why I don't want this option. The joy of playing against people is why I play with people at all. I don't want a pinball friend. Its like that whole "you play the right flipper and I'll play the left" no thanks I play both with a nice steady feeling of anxiety as I try to beat ur score. That's the point of multi play for me, If we aren't going to compete and maybe even bet a little cabbage per game then no one would be there in the first place, I'd play 100% alone, by myself and with myself. Wait I do that now, everyday, sometimes twice a day.

Different strokes for different folks. I'm in that limbo spot skillswise where I can crush any beginner, can have fun competing with a small group of similarly skilled players, but get crushed by the very skilled players. So I'm not that interested in playing with the people who crush me, I fully understand why the people I crush aren't interested in playing with me, and I only have a small group of people to play with in a hobby that is already niche. It's about having the option. No one is trying to take away the traditional high score attack style of competitive play.

#48 4 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Sounds like an awful lot of work for the coders, and a horrendous waste of resources for a feature that won't be used much and will be of value for very few. Unless I've missed all the threads where people complain that code updates happen way too often in pinball, I don't think there's much demand for that process to become even slower and more laborious.
if Pinside ran a pinball company it would be out of business in a month.

I get it, you don't like it. You've made your opinion clear and add nothing to the conversation other than pointing out it would take a modicum of effort. (Also I don't take your opinion seriously if you're not a programmer)

Stern keeps rising the prices and for what? If we aren't going to get impressive hardware, we can at least get impressive software.

#54 4 years ago
Quoted from Rager170:

Its an interesting thought and I know what you mean (Call of Duty fan here).
My only issue with connecting online with these machines is that they are all slightly different and then you have those who simply cheat. So not sure what would be done for connecting online?

I think you design around it. The barrier to cheat is so low that you have to accept that in the design of any online features. It pretty much makes public high score boards meaningless without adding a lot of unnecessary hardware. But people could still have a "friend's list" to compare their scores with other friends that they have some level of trust with. Personal achievements and the ability to continue progress forward would still be meaningful for people that want to engage with it. The serious competitive players and any TD that has organized a large event would love games that could automatically report scores back to the software running the tournament.

#60 4 years ago
Quoted from joelbob:

I was just responding to a previous post. I'm not opposed to achievements but my main focus is Co-op mode. I just don't see any harm in adding this feature to new games as it only requires coding in the different options when clicking the start button so the game knows which players are playing on a team or if they are all playing together.

Yeah, sorry for going so far off topic.

Of all the new features that have been discussed, co-op is by far one of the easiest. At best it sells some more games and increases coin drop on location. At worst it wastes a couple of days of a coder's and tester's time. I don't know how Stern has designed their code base, but I'd think it could be able to be implemented in multiple games fairly quickly.

#62 4 years ago
Quoted from Rager170:

I just think for pinball, there are too many variables. Each machine plays different, people setup angles different, people change settings, people add things to playfield to make things play differently... The list goes on.

Ok so have a large caveat when comparing scores to scores of different machines. Still plenty of other benefits to going online. I think any operator that wouldn't be interested in being able to remotely update the game, check status reports, check audits and coin drop, and remotely adjust pricing and game features is lying. (Digital security of course has to be on point)

#66 4 years ago
Quoted from yancy:

Who needs testing, right?!?

I did mention testers in my message. But even then, it's not like they're testing an all new game with multiple features happening at once. Plus Stern has gotten pretty good at getting people in the community to beta test their software for free.

#68 4 years ago
Quoted from kermit24:

Stern has versus Co-op for years now. Its in the settings and called team scoring and has been available since the Sega days. Not sure if it lasted past the SAM system.

Did that mode do anything besides add up the scores of player 1 and 3 vs player 2 and 4? Like if player 1 locks 2 balls, would player 3 be able to use the help of player 1 to start a multiball quicker?

TNA co-op is everyone is working together on the same game progression. If player 1 takes out 2 reactors and drains, then player 2 starts on reactor 3 and not reactor 1.

#73 4 years ago

Getting to particular wizard modes would be great for co-op. The idea of easily playing a co-op Valinor run on location is tantalizing.

That said, part of the appeal of TNA co-op is the ease of explaining the gameplay loop. It’s a great game for showing people to new pinball that there’s more to it than keeping the ball alive.

#84 4 years ago
Quoted from jwilson:

You’re a slave? I mean, someone with zero free time and whose every move is dictated by an owner?
Because I’m pretty sure it’s illegal for a company to prevent you from doing things in your free time.

You haven't seen a lot of modern employee contracts then. Typically the employer gets first rights to whatever you make even if it's on your off time, but especially if you ever do anything remotely related to the project during company time or on company equipment (which can be as innocuous as replying to an project-related personal email on your work issued phone)

#94 4 years ago

Stern Jurassic Park is another game ripe for co-op play. Everyone trying to get to the end of the map? Perfect. (Still a bit too obtuse to explain to novice players, but the core gameplay loop lends itself well)

An interesting challenge would be how could a programmer spread around "the love" of a game. ie giving the players who are clearly performing worse better rewards, easier multiball starts, rebalanced scoring and mode progression, etc... Some sort of dynamic difficulty level to make sure everyone is getting to do something fun, see the ball do neat things, and finish a ball feeling like they contributed to the team more than weighed it down. Of course, this would actually be challenging to design and require a lot more thought and resources. (Or at the very least at the beginning of the game, assign a difficulty level to each player)

I think Henry Ford once said, "If I'd asked customers what they wanted, they would have told me, 'A faster horse!'" People don't know what they want until you show it to them. People aren't clamoring for co-op and other new ways to play because the implementations are so few and far between.

#96 4 years ago
Quoted from PBFan:

How do you explain to potential new players about your wonderful feature when it isn't obvious to many that you push the blinky button to start a game.

To Stern's credit, they did a great job of making attract videos that explain the most basic aspects of operation. A few games, most notably Elwin's, take it further by explaining a few of a particular game's core objectives. They used to have the QR codes for getting cheat sheets for rules and need to bring it back.

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