(Topic ID: 188810)

Why I'm immensely frustrated with my ECLE WOZ


By WesleyCowan

2 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 33 posts
  • 16 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 year ago by hawkmoon
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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#1 2 years ago

I've been having lots of problems with my 3.5 year old WOZ LE recently such as:

The 3 ball diverter recently went crazily up and down everytime I turned the game on. Turned out to be a loose wire no where near the diverter I lucked into finding.

A couple of months ago every time I turned the game on fuse 701 would blow. I eventually sent off the I/O board and after spending $200 was working fine. A transistor and some other things were broken including things I couldn't have fixed like traces.

The witch won't go up only down, and then stays there. My wife and I've spent hours and no luck in fixing this plus the actual witch herself witch is starting to break. I ordered parts 2 weeks ago but having heard anything since including when they might arrive. (Edit: I have heard from tech support and they're helping with the shipping, including a free extra part and in other ways since I've had a tad of a long wait)

For awhile the witch, house and monkey weren't working got lucky in touching one of the fuses that looked like car fuses rather than the round ones and got everything going.

***Then the most recent and damned frustrating problems. The fans in the CPU would run about 15-20 seconds and cut off and I'd get the "no signal input" error message. Then I turned on the machine one time and got the following "F1 shell version 2.31 (4.654) Map cannot find required map name." What?? Then I started getting nothing to work but then fans off and on just like before even after suggestions from people on Pinside. Today in desperation and some anxiety I switched the CPU from TH into WOZ. (Edit: eventually did get it to play mostly properly with the TH CPU)

Bottom line--I've spent a ton of weekends and nights working on my WOZ recently and am really beginning to resent it. I LOVE it when it plays right and want to keep the game for several more years. But part of me is for the first time considering getting rid of of it after 3 years of working (and working and working) and playing it. As I told my wife I like this machine a lot esp, the rules and gameplay, LCD etc. but it's also by far the most frustrating pin I've ever owned re: keeping it running.

I like JJP, WOZ and TH. I hope to really like Dialed In. This isn't meant to be a hate or complaint only thread. Some of it no doubt is lack of skill and knowledge and is on me including once trying to do board work I shouldn't have which was my fault.

Any suggestions are welcomed and sorry for venting so much!

#2 2 years ago
Quoted from WesleyCowan:

Any suggestions are welcomed and sorry for venting so much!

Call JJP, hit extension 1

LTG : )

#3 2 years ago

Sorry to hear all this. Stick with it and I believe jjp will walk you through. It really is a great game like you said. I just really think the early ecle models are related to most woz problems.

#4 2 years ago
Quoted from konghusker:

Sorry to hear all this. Stick with it and I believe jjp will walk you through. It really is a great game like you said. I just really think the early ecle models are related to most woz problems.

Went back and made sure all of the cables etc tight from TH (not WOZ) CPU. Lights, sound, and everything working 100% as far as I can tell. Working theory is that the WOZ CPU has problems.

#5 2 years ago

Sorry to hear, my ECLE WOZ has been rock solid except for a single bad GI board out of the box. Get through the gremlins and you'll be good.

#6 2 years ago

Sorry to hear about all the problems. Never fun. I'd recommend that you work with JJP and figure out a path/plan forward to fix/resolve everything, tally it all up (costs, time, effort) and then decide if that path forward is reasonable to you. You are not alone as many people do not want to work a lot on pins. If the time, effort or costs are not reasonable to you (also add in the very real possibility and consideration that more may/can go wrong, including light board issues), then take a hit and sell the game, as it isn't worth your frustration and stress. Not everyone is a fixer or enjoys wrenching on a game. You can at least provide the buyer with all the information you and JJP have put together to fix the game and figure out a reasonable price for the machine. There are pinsiders who are fixers and enjoy working on and repairing pins so finding a buyer shouldn't be too difficult.

If, as mentioned, you really love the game, then consider buying a brand new WOZ from JJP. You'll get the latest version with all the updates (incl. v2.0 lightboards) and it should be a reliable game. Better for you and much less aggravation. To have a new as well as reliable version of a pin one loves is what most people strive for. At least with WOZ you should be able to get back there (since it is still being made).

GL

#7 2 years ago
Quoted from WesleyCowan:

"F1 shell version 2.31 (4.654) Map cannot find required map name." What??

I get this a lot. It seems to fix itself by reseating the cables to the SSD, but then it comes back a month later when one of my friends goes to play it. I am thinking about securing the cables with zip ties and if that doesn't work, I will buy some new cables.

Definitely frustrating along with the other problems in these games. On the other hand JJP has awesome tech support.

#8 2 years ago

I had one with weird things going on, turned out to be a faulty mini USB cable

#9 2 years ago

I feel your pain. The same things happened to me. 'Lots of troubles for a new machine. But after 2 years I think every things sorted out now and once that happens you'll like WOZ all over again.

#10 2 years ago

The map error is from EFI (the pc bios). It's having a hard time mapping the hard disk to boot. Sata cables don't frequently just work themselves loose. If you're seeing that message, I would recommend getting a new ssd and imaging it with a full image from the jjp website and seeing how that goes. Ssd are cheap now so this shouldn't be hard.

#11 2 years ago

For frustrating issues like that a call is definitely in order to right the ship. Lloyd will take care of ya.

#12 2 years ago
Quoted from wtatumjr:

I feel your pain. The same things happened to me. 'Lots of troubles for a new machine. But after 2 years I think every things sorted out now and once that happens you'll like WOZ all over again.

Despite my recent complaints and venting WOZ is my favorite game in a collection that includes SC, MM, SM and TH SE. I'm still learning Hobbit even pretty basic rules. So not sure yet how to rank it. I bought my WOZ slightly used. It was built 9/11/13. Most of the issues have been small or dumb stuff I've done. But being a the first game for JJP there were kinks to be worked out. I do give them credit and believe they learned a lot and TH seems to be a very solidly built game. In hindsight I might now wish I had waited a little longer and got a later production version of WOZ. However, I didn't have the boards going out except for one so that wasn't bad. So far TH has been very solid and I hope that remains as I'm not a great pinball repair guy.
I'm looking forward to playing Dialed In and always wish JJP well as they continue forward.

#13 2 years ago
Quoted from dzoomer:

Sorry to hear about all the problems. Never fun. I'd recommend that you work with JJP and figure out a path/plan forward to fix/resolve everything, tally it all up (costs, time, effort) and then decide if that path forward is reasonable to you. You are not alone as many people do not want to work a lot on pins. If the time, effort or costs are not reasonable to you (also add in the very real possibility and consideration that more may/can go wrong, including light board issues), then take a hit and sell the game, as it isn't worth your frustration and stress. Not everyone is a fixer or enjoys wrenching on a game. You can at least provide the buyer with all the information you and JJP have put together to fix the game and figure out a reasonable price for the machine. There are pinsiders who are fixers and enjoy working on and repairing pins so finding a buyer shouldn't be too difficult.
If, as mentioned, you really love the game, then consider buying a brand new WOZ from JJP. You'll get the latest version with all the updates (incl. v2.0 lightboards) and it should be a reliable game. Better for you and much less aggravation. To have a new as well as reliable version of a pin one loves is what most people strive for. At least with WOZ you should be able to get back there (since it is still being made).
GL

Lots of good ideas and advice thanks!

I have considered the option of buying a new or well playing newer WOZ. Maybe a Ruby Red just since I've own the ECLE for almost 3 years and if I'm going to purchase a different pin, might not want the exact version. Not that I wouldn't consider a well working EC LE. And to be fair JJP has provided me strong customer service even contacted me at least once on a week-end and got the game up and running at the time. I hope my frustration doesn't steer people away from considering buying a WOZ. I do think the build date is one important thing although I have no doubt better repair people have early production games that work well.

#14 2 years ago

My Hobbit and RR woz have been great. I know with woz it's all about production dates. Jjp support was great on some issues I had. I couldn't be happier with a pinball company. Wish I could get a di, but will anxiously be waiting to see jjp 4. Hope you finally work out your woz kinks. It's still my favorite pin.

#15 2 years ago

Update:

Replaced the CPU and the game lights up, sounds and most things are working except for the witch going up and down and the monkey not working. I'm fairly sure I know how to get the monkey working but don't have on hand what I need right now. Despite buying several parts including a new motor, rod, and other things, I just can't get the witch to work. I'm going to take a break from the machine for awhile. I need a break from it.

Thanks for the suggestions and encouragement offered so far.

#16 2 years ago
Quoted from WesleyCowan:

sounds and most things are working except for the witch going up and down and the monkey not working.

It's a blown fuse. Had the same thing happen to me. For some reason they operate off of the same fuse.

Curiously, they sent me a new shaker motor years ago saying it had something to do with the electrical tie in.

I over fused it by 1 amp and its worked perfectly ever since. Shaker is still in the box.

#17 2 years ago
Quoted from WesleyCowan:

Update:
Replaced the CPU and the game lights up, sounds and most things are working except for the witch going up and down and the monkey not working. I'm fairly sure I know how to get the monkey working but don't have on hand what I need right now. Despite buying several parts including a new motor, rod, and other things, I just can't get the witch to work. I'm going to take a break from the machine for awhile. I need a break from it.
Thanks for the suggestions and encouragement offered so far.

Bunch of things not working on mine (including witch not going up and down and monkey not working) were due to a faulty 12V connector. Make sure everything's working with 12V. Look at the lights on the I/O board and see if the 12V is all lit. If not, investigate.

2 weeks later
#18 2 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

It's a blown fuse. Had the same thing happen to me. For some reason they operate off of the same fuse.
Curiously, they sent me a new shaker motor years ago saying it had something to do with the electrical tie in.
I over fused it by 1 amp and its worked perfectly ever since. Shaker is still in the box.

Sorry for the long lag in responding. I've been out of town and just got back. I've checked the fuses and they are all okay. I wish it had been a fuse as that's an easy and quick fix.

#19 2 years ago
Quoted from WesleyCowan:

Sorry for the long lag in responding. I've been out of town and just got back. I've checked the fuses and they are all okay. I wish it had been a fuse as that's an easy and quick fix.

Did you test the fuses with a meter for continuity, or did you just check visually?

A visual inspection can be inadequate.

#20 2 years ago
Quoted from RTS:

Did you test the fuses with a meter for continuity, or did you just check visually?
A visual inspection can be inadequate.

Same thing for me. Replace that fuse regardless of whether it appears blown or not. I bet it works.

#21 2 years ago
Quoted from markmon:

The map error is from EFI (the pc bios). It's having a hard time mapping the hard disk to boot. Sata cables don't frequently just work themselves loose. If you're seeing that message, I would recommend getting a new ssd and imaging it with a full image from the jjp website and seeing how that goes. Ssd are cheap now so this shouldn't be hard.

I am at this point now. I get this error constantly and it is a pain in the butt. I need to open the machine and get the part number from the original SSD drive to get something similar.

2 weeks later
#22 2 years ago

After replacing some parts related to the monkey, the CPU, some cable and many hours of work I'm happy to report WOZ is working great again. Thanks to all who offered support and ideas!

#23 2 years ago
Quoted from WesleyCowan:

After replacing some parts related to the monkey, the CPU, some cable and many hours of work I'm happy to report WOZ is working great again. Thanks to all who offered support and ideas!

Is THAT all you had to replace? Yikes!

#24 2 years ago
Quoted from WesleyCowan:

After replacing some parts related to the monkey, the CPU, some cable and many hours of work I'm happy to report WOZ is working great again. Thanks to all who offered support and ideas!

Happy to see this. congrats

1 month later
#25 1 year ago
Quoted from WesleyCowan:

F1 shell version 2.31 (4.654) Map cannot find required map name."

So what on earth fixes this problem??? I replaced the SSD and the machine worked fine for a week or two. Now it fails to boot again every time. I guess I need to start replacing cables? This is really frustrating because the problem goes away for a while every time I mess with anything and I keep thinking it is fixed.

-1
#26 1 year ago

Early models problem?Its not supposed your $8000 machine came in perfect order,this is an excuse,this is a bad product no less.You are suppose to enjoying this merchandise not having headaches.I don't know why you throw to the street an unfinished product.And this is for whatever company.

#27 1 year ago

"I get this a lot. It seems to fix itself by reseating the cables to the SSD, but then it comes back a month later when one of my friends goes to play it. I am thinking about securing the cables with zip ties and if that doesn't work, I will buy some new cables.
Definitely frustrating along with the other problems in these games. On the other hand JJP has awesome tech support." Good advice and worth seriously considering I think.

Yes the only solution I can remember at THE MOMENT was reseating cables (including USB2 on back side of the board which is next to USB1 and there's also VGA, audio and other fairly larger connectors near it.) and also the mini cable on JUSB2 which has stamped on it USB in white letters between the pins. Be CAREFUL if you mess with the chord for SATA1 (probably you won't need to do anything with it but just in case) as you have to push in a metal piece on it to release it or you could damage the connector there and you really don't want to do that!!) Several times I had to wiggle chords a lot as my machine was very, very picky and if not making a "perfect" connection things would not work at all or work very poorly like lights, sound etc doing weird things.
The cables that gave me the most trouble were on the computer mother board. Has been tons better after figuring out which cables most often caused the machine to reset during game play or the machine not booting up. Once my wife hot glued really well the cables to stay seated in the connectors or pins, it's been no problem. About 8/10 it used to be the USB2 cable needed reseating and then some wiggling with. Rest of the time was JUSB2 which has such small pins to connect to it can be hard to see if you've got the cable seated correctly. Should you bump JAUD1 or disconnect it accidentally while reseating other cables the sound will disappear or sound really horrible. Just reseat it carefully and your audio should go back to normal.

Sorry if this is way more info. than you need or something's not clear please write more so hopefully I can clarify. WOZ is a great game and I hope you get yours working 100% very soon!

#28 1 year ago
Quoted from robertg130:

Early models problem?Its not supposed your $8000 machine came in perfect order,this is an excuse,this is a bad product no less.You are suppose to enjoying this merchandise not having headaches.I don't know why you throw to the street an unfinished product.And this is for whatever company.

Sometimes connectors or other things come loose in any pin regardless whether made by JJP, Stern, or possibly other pin makers through lots of shaking while being transported especially if cross country in a 18 wheeler where they get bounced around even with all the stuff to protect them in shipping. If you get lucky and see the disconnected item during a visual search it can be a very quick thing to remedy or if it's quite obvious what to look for but sometimes it isn't.
Sometimes things wiggle loose over time (months to years) of up to several balls rolling and bashing around and over the playfield, people shaking the machine, and the shaker motor in machines that have one and other things that cause vibrations. This doesn't mean the product or game is poor IMO. Personally I hate even more trying to figure out the source of a mysterious or hard to find short.

#29 1 year ago
Quoted from WesleyCowan:

Sometimes things wiggle loose over time

I have had this problem come back with literally no games played on it. I don't think it is the cables wiggling loose, but it definitely is fixed (temporarily) by reseating the cables. Each time I "fix" the problem, I will turn the game on a few times a week just to see if it boots and sure enough it will fail again in a week or two. I don't play WOZ at all because it is not fun to me so it is not a wiggling loose scenario. WOZ is hopefully going to my friend's new house soon and he has zero tech capability, so I want it to be working reliably before it goes there. He will be living over 100 miles away at that point.

For me it always seems to be the SATA cable and I believe that is what the error message is trying to point us at. I will have to try reseating a different cable next time. This might mean there is some other much harder to pin down problem.

#30 1 year ago
Quoted from John_I:

I have had this problem come back with literally no games played on it. I don't think it is the cables wiggling loose, but it definitely is fixed (temporarily) by reseating the cables. Each time I "fix" the problem, I will turn the game on a few times a week just to see if it boots and sure enough it will fail again in a week or two. I don't play WOZ at all because it is not fun to me so it is not a wiggling loose scenario. WOZ is hopefully going to my friend's new house soon and he has zero tech capability, so I want it to be working reliably before it goes there. He will be living over 100 miles away at that point.
For me it always seems to be the SATA cable and I believe that is what the error message is trying to point us at. I will have to try reseating a different cable next time. This might mean there is some other much harder to pin down problem.

Pop another SATA cable and SATA drive in there to test (then just install the latest full game release via USB). Try that and see if you still get the same problem. If you don't problem solved (and you can open a ticket for them to send you a new drive if it is under warranty) and if it does happen, problem is deeper and time to open up a ticket so Lloyd can work his magic. good luck!

#31 1 year ago
Quoted from arcadenerd925:

Pop another SATA cable and SATA drive in there to test (then just install the latest full game release via USB).

I just bought and installed a new drive with fresh USB download and the failure returned not long after. I expect some new cables in the mail tomorrow, so that will take care of that part of it. I already have a ticket open for a while.

#32 1 year ago
Quoted from John_I:

I just bought and installed a new drive with fresh USB download and the failure returned not long after. I expect some new cables in the mail tomorrow, so that will take care of that part of it. I already have a ticket open for a while.

Ugh, was hoping it was the SSD. if the cable doesnt do it, I'd say see what Lloyd says. But being an IT nerd, I would be curious to swap the motherboard out next.

#33 1 year ago

Just so you don't think you are alone,your story is exactly the same as mine,with my TAFG!! It seemed no matter what I did something else went wrong!! If you like the pin,work through it! You seem to understand Murphys law,Good luck,have fun!!

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