(Topic ID: 330125)

Why I'm done with location pinball.

By Beechwood

1 year ago


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  • 114 posts
  • 64 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 year ago by mostater
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    There are 114 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 3.
    #51 1 year ago
    Quoted from PinRetail:

    How much of your play time is spent on:
    Pistol Poker.
    Breakshot.
    Jack-Bot.
    Beatles.
    You can't even find these machines to play... because they were spectacular failures.
    So... Hehe. I disagree with your premise.

    In all fairness, Beatles was clearly aimed at the "Beatles collector market" not so much pinball operators.

    #52 1 year ago
    Quoted from gdonovan:

    When you drive two states away to visit a advertised pinball location and half the machines are DOWN it gives a bad impression. My experience checking out other locations isn't much better. Unless slack operators step up, location pinball will die. I'm all for maximum exposure to the public hence helping setup a show in a mall last year.
    If the machines are broken, the public is going to get the wrong impression.

    Are you serious?
    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/avoid-ebay-seller-classicarcades

    LOL. Why would I not be serious? Okay. Now I know… I will avoid some rando eBay seller. Thanks for the heads up.

    I do understand how the scenario you mention would be frustrating… but again, I am not advocating for head-in-the-sand/pay-because-it-is-location pinball. I just said to remember that the ops and locations are not superhuman so try and help them out with a list of problems you saw.

    Wow. Some serious lashing out going on in these parts today.

    #53 1 year ago
    Quoted from skink91:

    LOL. Why would I not be serious? Okay. Now I know… I will avoid some rando eBay seller.

    They guy is well known in the pinball community, for all the wrong reasons.

    But I digress.

    #54 1 year ago

    If I’m done with location pinball, I’m dead.

    I grew up and cut my pinball teeth on location play. Young children just don’t have the resources to locate, purchase, and drag home a pinball machine, so I was kind of stuck by the situation. We pestered my father and he looked into buying one for us back when HUO was something only the real cool kids parents could afford. These things were considered a business machine, used to make money, not toys to be sat in the corner for the kids to play for free on a whim. Because of this, what you could find for the home were Bingo machines and wood rails, and flipperless gambling devices, outlawed and illegal, they were everywhere, weighed a ton, and are about as much fun as a slot machine, or less fun, since slots could actually mechanically pay out coin when you hit a jackpot.

    This was the seventies… pinball was big, arcades were making money, and they wanted stupid money for junk that we didn’t even consider “pinball”. So yes, if I don’t drop a dime or quarter or dollar every time I see a pinball machine on location, check my pulse. I am dead.

    #55 1 year ago

    There are definitely locations that take poor care of their pinballs. I usually try to hit up actual pinball arcades with a bunch of machines, they seem to do better than the bars that only have a couple pins and they're at best a sideshow to selling alcohol. They don't know anything about them and don't seem to care. But when you find a place with 20+ pins and they're the main attraction, maybe they even have a league, you should be able to expect that most of them are working and set up fairly well.

    Locally I lucked into finding a new restaurant with 2 pins (TMNT and Jurassic Park) but the catch is that they're owned by a local collector who's friends with the restaurant owner and he maintains them. All of them play better than the same pins I've played elsewhere and they said they're planning on adding a Rush and Led Zeppelin soon.

    If you look on pinballmap you should be able to see all the places in your area and often read some comments about them. When we go out of town for trips I always scout ahead and see if there's a good pinball place there, especially with an eye for any games I'm interested in but haven't played yet.

    #56 1 year ago
    Quoted from dboeren:

    There are definitely locations that take poor care of their pinballs. I usually try to hit up actual pinball arcades with a bunch of machines, they seem to do better than the bars that only have a couple pins and they're at best a sideshow to selling alcohol. They don't know anything about them and don't seem to care.

    The Sanctum in CT is worth visiting if you are in the area, pinball guys who take care of their stuff.

    #57 1 year ago

    Beechwood for what its worth: We have an infamous place called Dezerland in Orlando. It's a cool massive place and built by a millionaire, but their pinball location inside hast the worst rating and their tech quit because he claims he wasnt even paid. That tech now works at another local place 40 mins away Pinball Lounge (which is super close to me) and the owners there love pinball and are there every Friday keeping it going with stuck balls and all kinds of stuff on the spot. I call the owner between 2-10 times a night for some kind of dumb issue.

    #58 1 year ago
    Quoted from PinRetail:

    Not to derail this thread... but you haven't quite seen the pinball market experiment with exactly what you are saying.
    People SAY they want...
    But then you do EXACTLTY that, and they don't.
    Manufacturers have tried to do exactly what you say... and have been punished by poor sales, poor reviews, every time.
    History:
    People SAID thay wanted a simpler machine, like the old days when EM's would last and last.
    Alvin G. and Company. Put out Pistol Poker. Reliable, came with a big box of parts, in case people had any problems (we didn't).
    They sold 200.
    The same year, WMS produced Twilight Zone, Judge Dredd, Indiana Jones, Star Trek the Next Generation.
    They sold a gazillion complex games with complex toys.
    Breakshot. (One of my favorite games!) Simple, well developed layout. Innovative ways to make it astonishingly easy to repair. (Open the front coin door, and the game actually knew every light bulb in the game, and would tell you if there were any bulbs you needed to change!). Breakshot is a particularly good example of DON'T GIVE PEOPLE WHAT THEY ASK FOR!!! Because operators were complaining... oh how they were complaining... complaining over and over that they couldn't buy an inexpensive pinball that played well for their routes. Breakshot was the 'value line' flagship machine. Solid, fun game, without all the development of toys, sold for quite a bit less than the competition.
    Breakshot sold 1000. While the competition's machines were selling Tales of the Arabian Nights, Scared Stiff, Safecracker in the thousands and thousands.
    People said, give us great machines, instead of all this new complicated toys! Something that will be fun to play like Pinbot!
    Jackbot. EXACTLY the same layout as pinbot. No new engineering, no fancy toys, just solid rules, engaging gameplay.
    Jackbot sold 2400. While Theatre of Magic, Attack from Mars (admittedly simple!), sold thousands and thousands more machines.
    So it's the 2000's!
    And Stern... bless their hearts... LISTENED to their customers. Big mistake.
    People SAID they wanted a simple layout, no fancy toys, that classic gameplay.
    Beatles. Arguably one of the poorest selling pinballs in history. I knew distributors that still had Beatles pinballs in boxes three years after they were released. Sold out now, but an absolutely TERRIBLE business move.
    So, you play pinball.
    Ever played Addams Family? Ever played Twilight Zone? Ever Played Circus Voltaire? Ever played Monster Bash? Ever played a Premium new Stern pinball?
    How much of your play time is spent on:
    Pistol Poker.
    Breakshot.
    Jack-Bot.
    Beatles.
    You can't even find these machines to play... because they were spectacular failures.
    So... Hehe. I disagree with your premise.

    Yes, I agree that everything you say is true...I just don't understand WHY it is true.
    I believe that operators seem to want the "big, fancy, breaks all the time", over the "simple, reliable, easy to repair", I'm just surprised by it.

    Sure, maybe the "fancy" brings in more money for a little while (until it breaks) - but it also costs more upfront and costs more in parts and repair time.

    As a player at my home, I'd prefer to play TZ over Breakshot, but that's because they'd both be in great shape.
    As a player at a location, I'd prefer to play a working Breakshot over a broken TZ.

    There is a Pinstack near me that has about 10 pins. When they opened, the machines were new and in great shape. Now they are all busted and dirty, but as long as the bill acceptor still works, it's fine by them. They got a bunch of my money at first - they get none of it now.

    #59 1 year ago
    Quoted from dpadam450:

    We have an infamous place called Dezerland in Orlando. It's a cool massive place and built by a millionaire, but their pinball location inside hast the worst rating and their tech quit because he claims he wasnt even paid. That tech now works at another local place 40 mins away Pinball Lounge (which is super close to me) and the owners there love pinball and are there every Friday keeping it going with stuck balls and all kinds of stuff on the spot. I call the owner between 2-10 times a night for some kind of dumb issue.

    Good to know, we're going to Orlando in June. Last time we went to District Eat & Play which was pretty decent. We'll probably try Pinball Lounge this time.

    At our local place here in NW Atlanta (Portal Pinball) the owner is the tech so if anything isn't working you can just let him know. Last night the miniature "Stewie's Pinball" ball was stuck in the Family Guy game. I let him know and 30 seconds later we're in there with a screwdriver adjusting the right slingshot so it can pass through - apparently it is only held by one screw so it can get twisted a bit. Sometimes of course it's a bigger repair and can't be done on the spot. When Mist Multiball went out on Bram Stoker's Dracula that was a few weeks before it was back up and running.

    #60 1 year ago

    You’re probably less than 3 hours from Wizard World .Just go there ,you won’t need to go anywhere else .Has to be over 200 pins by now and are kept up .I was spoiled ,we had a summer place 30 minutes away for years but we had to sell a couple years ago and I still take the drive out maybe every other month and spend 8-10 hours there .

    #61 1 year ago

    Near Ft Wayne IN .

    #62 1 year ago
    Quoted from dboeren:

    Good to know, we're going to Orlando in June.

    Yea unless they get something in shape, just nothing being done to the games. I had a ball stuck in AC/DC scoop from 1st ball. I got in scoop and then realized two balls were stuck on top each other. Dracula flippers were super weak. Another game was missing ball the second I stepped up to it. I lived in Marietta and been to portal before. If you can make it to Pinball Lounge, Friday 8-12pm $10 all play, all machines work, guy is on site. Guy has no passion for pinball at Dezerland. I offered them to buy it out down the road if it keeps going south. Such a perfect location( high traffic, cool place otherwise). The owners at the Pinball Lounge are changing it up and retiring, so they are going to maybe have other options than friday play or quarters, so look it up before you go in June. Dezerland just has random kids cycling positions. In one hour of play I saw 3 different workers at the pinball counter.

    #63 1 year ago

    This is probably 25% of the place .

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    #64 1 year ago

    179 .I was close

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    #65 1 year ago
    Quoted from dboeren:

    We'll probably try Pinball Lounge this time.

    You can't go wrong with that location. We just had the FL state Championships there and the modern and classic pins all held up well.

    #66 1 year ago

    We have some pretty good location pinball near us here in Metro Detroit.

    Sparks Pinball Museum inside Premier Lanes in New Baltimore is where I tend to hang out. They have a nice mixture (60+ machines) of System 11, WPC and modern Stern machines all in overall nice shape.

    When I started collecting, the locations with machines were very limited and the machines were usually on their last legs.

    Even though I have a medium-sized collection, I will do what I can to support location pinball.

    #67 1 year ago
    Quoted from pinzrfun:

    Few minutes later, a woman brings 2 shrieking little kids in the game room, puts some money in the pool table, plops the balls on the table and leaves. The kids are screaming and slamming the balls around, and when they're finally out of balls they start climbing and jumping on the pool table....

    So pretty much what all our parents did with us? That basically led to us hanging around in arcades our whole lives, playing pinball, and then buying them.

    Oh wait, that was the 80s so it was OK.

    But thanks that's right by my house and haven't been there in years; the Banfields days.

    #68 1 year ago
    Quoted from TheLaw:

    Oh wait, that was the 80s so it was OK.

    Well, 60’s-80’s anyway…

    Sad how pinzrfun, (and the rest of us really…) forgets their own freewheeling latchkey childhood roots so easily.

    I too, kept trying my hardest to not be the stereotypical GenX modern helicopter parent but, damn! It’s so DAMN HARD!
    I can’t help it…So SCARY out there!!!

    #69 1 year ago

    It would be helpful to everyone if those of you who defended/posted positive reviews of your local arcade to post them here. https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/best-arcades-in-the-usa

    #70 1 year ago
    Quoted from NimblePin:

    Well, 60’s-80’s anyway…
    Sad how pinzrfun, (and the rest of us really…) forgets their own freewheeling latchkey childhood roots so easily.
    I too, keep trying my hardest to not be the stereotypical GenX modern helicopter parent but, damn! It’s so DAMN HARD!
    I can’t help it…So scary out there!!!

    I dont know about you guys, but my parents would have blistered my ass if that was me.....i wasn't hanging out in bars by myself at 5 years old......

    #71 1 year ago

    I was too busy babysitting my 6 younger brothers at 10 years old to be at no stinky bar! I think I learned to use the stove and cook dinner at 7 or so. If I was lucky I got to use the microwave..but I seem to recall they were deathly scared it would blow up.

    #72 1 year ago
    Quoted from pinzrfun:

    I dont know about you guys, but my parents would have blistered my ass if that was me.....

    My dad was playing racquetball & gave me a handful of quarters and left me alone. He didn't have a cellphone to diddle on all day.

    #73 1 year ago
    Quoted from TheLaw:

    My dad was playing racquetball & gave me a handful of quarters and left me alone. He didn't have a cellphone to diddle on all day.

    I was playing racquetball WITH my dad in the 70s!

    that was fun.

    #74 1 year ago
    Quoted from PinRetail:

    How much does it take to have a pinball bar that keeps it's machines in good condition?
    There is a local pinball bar. 30 or so pinballs.
    My friend Matthew does the service there. He shows up Wednesday morning, works all day getting things fixed.
    Then he returns on Friday with parts, usually works until noon, sometimes all day.
    Thats 12-16 hours of extremely skilled labor a week by an astonishingly good technician... to keep 30 pinballs playable.
    Both Matthew, and the bar owner are passionate about pinball. I've got a good feeling that they'll be around for a while.

    When you quoted my post you very unfairly cut the entire rest of my post out to make it seem like I was saying it shouldn't be a lot of work in general to maintain pins at a location. My post was specifically about flipper alignment, pitch, and getting pins in the neighborhood of level.

    I love location play and for about a year now I've VOLUNTEERED weekly to help with maintenance on about 30 pins on location, so I'm VERY VERY well aware that there's a lot more than that to keeping 10's of pins at a location playable. I was specifically only speaking about setting flipper alignment, pitch, and level, which are some main things that form a first impression about a particular machine when someone with some experience playing plunges on location. When I walk away from one of those pins the last thing I like to check is pitch, level, and alignment so it will have a good first impression and play fairly for whoever comes to play it.

    How about you edit your post to include my entire post in your quote?

    #75 1 year ago

    Great topic. I find location play to be really hard compared to basement even on well maintained games. That's why I love it.

    With the $2/3 games pricing it sucks to play the first ball and realize you wasted $2 so I play at places that I know are well maintained but even then sometimes something breaks.

    If I'm on vacation or traveling I look for locations that have a league and enough pins to support that, they may not play like home but are fun. People willing to put on a league usually take better care of their games.

    #76 1 year ago
    Quoted from pinzrfun:

    I dont know about you guys, but my parents would have blistered my ass if that was me.....i wasn't hanging out in bars by myself at 5 years old......

    My Dad actually took us to the bowling alley at 7 years old, which was just a bar with lanes back in those days (60’s). Hell, Mom dropped us off for bowling league when we were 8 & 9 years old, and didn’t come back for 3 hours. Finding an unsupervised child in a bar/bowling alley at 8 years old these days and the parents are in the back of a cruiser in cuffs being carted away by CPS. Times they are a changin’

    #77 1 year ago
    Quoted from TheCoinSlotTC:

    Do a staycation. RLM in your area has a great lineup. Look at the amount of pins up here in TC, Right Brain over 30 in addition to our lineup. Bay City (Crazy Quarters), or Kalamazoo (One Well) has you covered as well. Michigan has a ton of locations ran by people that care.

    It was at Right Brain brewery. I would have gone to the Coin Slot but Google said you don't open until 5 unfortunately that didn't work for my timeline.

    It's not even that the games were broken as much as the glare from the high windows, unlevelness, and damn the Elvira reboot! The beer was good.

    #78 1 year ago

    My biggest gripe is this: I spend way too much time on pinside. After getting way too far into TS4 thread and how it's overpriced, I figured I'd go what do many others said... Just dump some money on location and see for myself if it's fun. Well, when the flippers sucked and the slings were firing at maybe 30% it was a huge disappointment.
    And I STILL don't know if I like TS4 or not...

    #79 1 year ago

    I totally get your frustration with location pinball. It was even worse 10yrs ago when me and a friend started getting into the hobby so we started operating ourselves.

    Theres a few places in town that are great and some that I couldn't recommend. I imagine every area is similar and that's if you're lucky enough to have options.

    #80 1 year ago
    Quoted from Bublehead:

    My Dad actually took us to the bowling alley at 7 years old, which was just a bar with lanes back in those days (60’s). Hell, Mom dropped us off for bowling league when we were 8 & 9 years old, and didn’t come back for 3 hours. Finding an unsupervised child in a bar/bowling alley at 8 years old these days and the parents are in the back of a cruiser in cuffs being carted away by CPS. Times they are a changin’

    Not a chance in hell I would leave my 8 year old alone in a bowling alley What kind of parent would think that's ok? Probably a bunch, unfortunately.

    #81 1 year ago

    When I was 6 I rode my bike 2 miles alone to watch the heavy machinery in action excavating for the newest subdivision in our town. My mother packed me a lunch.

    #82 1 year ago

    I just had to be back in time for supper or dark (whichever came first)… everything else was up to me.

    I may have confirmation bias going on… but it really never struck me as dangerous/odd. I suppose things ‘may’ have been a little different if I had grown up in the city, but not sure that would be true either.

    #83 1 year ago
    Quoted from skink91:

    Also - let the location know what’s wrong with their games when you see it. While it would be nice to think at the end of each day they go through each and every game to make it play perfectly, that ain’t how things work.
    If they know its broke… higher chance they will take a look.

    This right here. 99.9% of issues on our pins are reported by one guy (and thank god for “pinball Mike”)

    People will scroll right past the info to notify me on pinball map about an issue to complain about an issue on a pin.

    The info section states who the pin key holders are and someone complained that the “bar says they don’t have a key”. Well of course the random server you stopped doesn’t know anything about pinball let alone have a key to them

    #84 1 year ago
    Quoted from The_Pump_House:

    This right here. 99.9% of issues on our pins are reported by one guy (and thank god for “pinball Mike”)
    People will scroll right past the info to notify me on pinball map about an issue to complain about an issue on a pin.

    Send him down this way!

    I love when people report things. They usually preface their message with "sorry to bother you" but I swear good operators want to know this stuff. If they blow you off or ignore you, don't give them money.

    #85 1 year ago
    Quoted from Bublehead:

    Hell, Mom dropped us off for bowling league when we were 8 & 9 years old, and didn’t come back for 3 hours.

    Wow, twinnies!
    At least in my case, I got to see a shiny new game called Black Knight get rolled in and setup while league carried on so, ogling that mechanical marvel (and the other new games that came after,) took care of the last hour anyway.

    #86 1 year ago

    Personally I like location pinball when the games are playing with some issues. I come to expect it in most locations where the op isn't a collector.

    It's fun to try and overcome a weak flipper here or a switch not working there... Am I the only one??

    #87 1 year ago
    Quoted from jdoz2:

    Send him down this way!
    I love when people report things. They usually preface their message with "sorry to bother you" but I swear good operators want to know this stuff. If they blow you off or ignore you, don't give them money.

    No, you can’t have him.

    My last interaction with Mike - corvette tilted in multiball twice and I barely moved it (tilt Bob set way too high), no pop action in getaway (adjust leaf switches) and hyperactive left slingshot on monster bash.

    5 minutes to fix all. Let me hit the service credit button on these 3 pins a few times for you Mike…

    Even if he reports something I can’t fix in the moment at least I get the machine shut off

    #88 1 year ago
    Quoted from jdoz2:

    If they blow you off or ignore you, don't give them money.

    This.

    Because that money could be going to locations that keep their equipment up, so they can do more to please you. The customer.

    LTG : )

    #89 1 year ago
    Quoted from Kkoss24:

    You’re probably less than 3 hours from Wizard World .Just go there ,you won’t need to go anywhere else .Has to be over 200 pins by now and are kept up .I was spoiled ,we had a summer place 30 minutes away for years but we had to sell a couple years ago and I still take the drive out maybe every other month and spend 8-10 hours there .

    You can also go to one of my 3 locations in the actual city of Fort Wayne. You won’t be disappointed.

    Summit city Brewerks
    Hop River Brewery
    Old Crown Coffee Roasters

    #90 1 year ago

    If you're ever near Georgia/FL, The Pinball Palace in Brunswick is worth the trip.

    It's what location pinball should ideally be.

    The owner and his son really care about pinball and the experience others have, and it shows.

    #91 1 year ago

    One location is too small of a sample size to make a general statement that location pinball is bad.

    #92 1 year ago

    I’m in Colorado Springs, and the location play around here is so so. I appreciate that there are places to play. I try and play the on location a few times a month. Even with the machines not set up properly and being pretty dirty most times I’m there. Location play is just different than playing my own machines.

    #93 1 year ago
    Quoted from doublestack:

    You can also go to one of my 3 locations in the actual city of Fort Wayne. You won’t be disappointed.
    Summit city Brewerks
    Hop River Brewery
    Old Crown Coffee Roasters

    I heard about the one in the coffee shop. Do you have some pins roomed off for better sound ? Either way I will be sure to drop boy with my boys next time .We usually break in the afternoon and drive to FT Wayne to eat and walk around a bit .

    #94 1 year ago
    Quoted from Ryguy80:

    One location is too small of a sample size to make a general statement that location pinball is bad.

    I'm sure the OP is aware of that, but unfortunately, his experience is far too common, with many operators more focused on $ with minimum effort, rather than keeping machines at 95%+

    I'm sure anyone obsessed enough with pinball to be on Pinside feels the pain of this sort of experience, knowing first time pinball players are going to these locations and believing that's what to expect from pinball.

    #95 1 year ago
    Quoted from Kkoss24:

    I heard about the one in the coffee shop. Do you have some pins roomed off for better sound ? Either way I will be sure to drop boy with my boys next time .We usually break in the afternoon and drive to FT Wayne to eat and walk around a bit .

    Yea you should be able to hear everything. They all have their own room or area. All locations are all ages too.

    #96 1 year ago
    Quoted from jdzwir123:

    I’ve leveled games that I found on location that weren’t level.

    I’ve always wondered if this was bad form. If you’ve played long enough you can tell within 20 seconds if it’s leaning left or right. Outside of your family dying from embarrassment, is it ok to turtle games and mess with the levellers on location games? Is this an old operator trick for quick drains?

    #97 1 year ago
    Quoted from Chisox:

    Is this an old operator trick for quick drains?

    Possibly, but my money is on it just never got any love once it jumped off the truck.

    As for “bad form”, if they aren’t rusted solid and can be turned by hand, then level that puppy. If rusted shut, matchbooks Miss Teschbacher, matchbooks.

    Dig this cheat… back in the day of leather shoes and iron men, the guys on the army base would lift the front of the machine up and rest the feet on the toes of their shoes, according to my father, and make the ball more floaty and slower. It’s the actual reason they installed roll tilts in the machines back then so you couldn’t do the same with matchbooks, or any other thin thing you might have on hand.

    #98 1 year ago
    Quoted from Chisox:

    I’ve always wondered if this was bad form. If you’ve played long enough you can tell within 20 seconds if it’s leaning left or right. Outside of your family dying from embarrassment, is it ok to turtle games and mess with the levellers on location games? Is this an old operator trick for quick drains?

    If I don’t know the operator I won’t make adjustments on their games - because they’re not my games to adjust.

    I let them know - but I’m not entitled to play their games the way I want them setup.

    #99 1 year ago
    Quoted from Beechwood:

    I can't objectively say if I like TS4 or not. It was just so odd the way the flippers reacted. Is that normal or just a lack of maintenance? No idea.

    mine feel the same as my gnr,rrwoz & hobbit. i can imagine the draw of little kids to that machine, dad putting their $1.00 in and jack hammering the flippers from start to finish. coil stops look like mushrooms i bet.

    #100 1 year ago

    dammit @beechwood, I went to location on Saturday and their new 007 had a missing mount, leaving a gate switch to hang by a wire.

    I stepped back, chuckled as I jokingly blamed you, then moved on to a dirty Munsters. (note to self: inspect playfield before depositing $2)

    I wish more operators put contact info on their equipment so they can be notified.. I imagine this switch is not going to last long getting bashed around by customers who don't care. The bartender didn't know/care who the operator was or how to notify them.

    There are 114 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 3.

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