(Topic ID: 330125)

Why I'm done with location pinball.

By Beechwood

1 year ago


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  • Latest reply 1 year ago by mostater
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    There are 114 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 3.
    #1 1 year ago

    On vacation, saved a few hours to play some pins on location. Some "me time" away from the family.

    Now, to clarify why this topic matters. With all the high price machines coming out, many say "well, I won't be buying, but will play it on location"

    So I played some pins I will never buy but figured I could get a piece of the magic for a buck a play. First was TS4. Immediately noticed the flippers were odd. Very odd, as they would flip and bounce a little at the end. And they were unusually "limp ". All of them. Made the experience frustrating. Didn't enjoy the pin. After $5 I was done.

    Godzilla. So unlevel, I couldn't cradle the ball on the left flipper, it would roll to the right. Some really cool flow and shots, but I could not dial shots in with such a lean. Frustrating again.

    Elvira and the house of horrors. Started out good, but after 3 games, it rebooted mid ball. Same thing happened with this machine almost a year ago when I was playing it, 3 times. For a buck a game... Wtf.

    Circus Voltaire. First time playing this. Really cool shots, a real change of pace. Really cool toys. But it was sooooo unlevel I could barely shoot anything consistently. Also, there was such a bad glare from the windows I could barely see what was going on.

    Conclusion, playing on location doesn't do pinball justice. Yes, some locations are very good with keeping their machines playable. But the ones I've been to are about 50% the fun they could be. Especially with the deep rules that need a dialed in machine to fully explore the pins potential.

    I can't imagine playing my Halloween on location and enjoying it. Having no distractions, dialing in the machine, and focusing 100% on gameplay is so much better than what I've experienced on location.

    Oh, and TAF was off, one of my favorites.

    Maybe it's just me, but location pinball isn't even close to what it was when I feel in love with this hobby.

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    #2 1 year ago

    Play better locations.
    Come down to Alleycat Pinball Arcade in Watervliet tomorrow.
    He's only open Friday evenings, but.......
    60+ pins
    Immaculate games
    Leveled and set up properly
    Clean venue
    Pay by the hour
    Really nice guy

    https://www.facebook.com/people/AlleyCat-Pinball-Arcade/100069892669005/

    26
    #4 1 year ago

    That's like reading this thread and going "this didn't really deliver the experience I wanted, I'm done with Pinside".

    12
    #5 1 year ago

    Visit San Francisco next trip..
    Free Gold Watch won't disappoint.
    It's my favorite Pin place on earth.

    #6 1 year ago
    Quoted from gonzo73:

    Visit San Francisco next trip..
    Free Gold Watch won't disappoint.
    It's my favorite Pin place on earth.

    Free Good Watch is amazing and a shout out for The Flipper Room on the other side of the Bay!

    #7 1 year ago

    Some of us try our best! I think my pins on location play great for what they are. Most of them are players and heavily routed, but in good working order!

    I do put some of them on a very slight lean if it seems to favor draining on one side or the other to balance it out. Players seem to enjoy playing longer than usual. Sometimes I adjust the flippers to make certain important shots much easier. They’re my games, and I want people to enjoy playing, rather than get their ass kicked and walk away. Only negative is regulars blow them up and get tons of replays.

    #8 1 year ago

    Use the pinball map app, its usually pretty accurate and up to date.

    #9 1 year ago

    You are not too far from Wizards World in Fort Wayne, Indiana. All his pins are very well maintained and it is never too crowded during the day.

    #10 1 year ago

    Don't give up on location play. I like to support these businesses as much as possible. I do agree some could take better care of their machines and there are plenty that do. As others have said, find the good locations....they are out there.

    #12 1 year ago
    Quoted from RCA1:

    Play better locations.
    Come down to Alleycat Pinball Arcade in Watervliet tomorrow.
    He's only open Friday evenings, but.......
    60+ pins
    Immaculate games
    Leveled and set up properly
    Clean venue
    Pay by the hour
    Really nice guy
    https://www.facebook.com/people/AlleyCat-Pinball-Arcade/100069892669005/

    Rob is great, I bought a machine from him and his collection is amazing and immaculate. He also bought a pin from me.

    The only problem is I only visit locations we happen to be near on vacation. Watervliet is not on the list yet lol.

    #13 1 year ago

    I only play on location
    I know some horrenduous places, but some good ones too. Usually the best locations are where the owner is a pinball enthusiast.

    #14 1 year ago
    Quoted from Aurich:

    That's like reading this thread and going "this didn't really deliver the experience I wanted, I'm done with Pinside".

    No, it's just noticing what a huge difference there is enjoying pins at home vs location. I have respect for all those that spend time and money and effort to allow us to play in the wild. I am merely pointing out how it's just not the same experience, especially if they don't set up/maintain their pins properly.

    I can't objectively say if I like TS4 or not. It was just so odd the way the flippers reacted. Is that normal or just a lack of maintenance? No idea.

    #15 1 year ago

    I feel your pain, it’s just hit or miss. Even at same location. Near me is a bar that has Godzilla and Stranger Things Pro. The gz is god awful- flippers are misaligned, it’s dirty, it’s not level. I have a GZ at home and I am such a freak it’s dialed in so nice. I want to cry when I play this one at the bar. I don’t play it. The Stranger though is set up well, plays great and play it for a couple hours at a time. Just need to find the good places and pins. But it will rarely be like home (and how could it? You will put more care into your experience than anyone else)

    #16 1 year ago

    Seems like it shouldn’t be too difficult for a location to have flippers aligned correctly and a reasonable pitch since play won’t change those things. Just set it up correctly once and it’s done. Level can be impacted as a machine is slid but still should be able to have it reasonably in the neighborhood of level. Too often it does seem difficult to find decently set up pins though.

    #17 1 year ago

    I find playing old games on location (if kept up) is fun.

    Playing NEWER games on location tends to suck because the audio is pretty key to know what is going on and you generally can't hear anything.

    #18 1 year ago
    Quoted from Zablon:

    I find playing old games on location (if kept up) is fun.
    Playing NEWER games on location tends to suck because the audio is pretty key to know what is going on and you generally can't hear anything.

    Not to mention lighting can be terrible. At the bar I mentioned pins are back in a dark corner and I can’t see a damn thing. I put my phone flashlight on top of the glass. I’ve thought about bringing a head lamp. Yes, I would!

    #19 1 year ago
    Quoted from Beechwood:

    after 3 games, it rebooted mid ball. Same thing happened with this machine almost a year ago when I was playing it

    Yet we all go back.

    I add comments on the Pinside location map so others know where to go and avoid.

    Funny - If the pool table wasn't level, the patrons would chew the bartenders ear off, but...

    #20 1 year ago

    I’ve leveled games that I found on location that weren’t level.

    10
    #21 1 year ago

    Come play at our location One Well in Kalamazoo, hopefully we can change your mind.

    https://pinside.com/pinball/map/where-to-play/8367-wizard-s-pinball-palace-one-well-brewing-kalamazoo-mi

    #22 1 year ago

    wanna play nice pins on location? play at locations that they are a collector's machines (who also plays well) or pro players machines.
    Those are the ones well kept and set up correct and the owners that care usually.

    #23 1 year ago
    Quoted from Aurich:

    That's like reading this thread and going "this didn't really deliver the experience I wanted, I'm done with Pinside".

    YEAH..... It's like going to a bad restaurant and then saying Im giving up food.

    #24 1 year ago

    I have a decent personal collection and feel that I keep all my personal games in great-playing shape… … but I LOVE location play… even playing inferiorly maintained versions of games I own…even when I’m scoring 25% of my average. For me, there’s just a thrill to being “out playing pinball”. I don’t know if it’s the thrill of free balls, extra games, getting a high score, seeing something new, or the social aspect, but it all comes together for an enjoyable experience. It’s almost like playing at home is ‘practicing’ and playing on location is ‘game time’.

    #25 1 year ago
    Quoted from hoby1:

    YEAH..... It's like going to a bad restaurant and then saying Im giving up food.

    Except with food or pinball you have the option of going home.

    My experience on location pinball is to not expect much so don't go out of my way unless it is Allentown/Pintastic/York.

    Last place we went to in lower NH (Funworld I think) and half the games were junk.

    #26 1 year ago

    Also - let the location know what’s wrong with their games when you see it. While it would be nice to think at the end of each day they go through each and every game to make it play perfectly, that ain’t how things work.

    If they know its broke… higher chance they will take a look.

    #27 1 year ago
    Quoted from jdzwir123:

    I’ve leveled games that I found on location that weren’t level.

    Yup! Instead of getting down on all 4s and propping the game up on your back so you can adjust the feet, a quick trip to the bar and snagging a small stack of coasters allows you to level a game real quick without ever getting low or looking too suspect.

    #28 1 year ago
    Quoted from skink91:

    Also - let the location know what’s wrong with their games when you see it.

    They knew, there was several signs on the machines aside from the Hobbit that still played but had zero sound.

    #29 1 year ago
    Quoted from jdzwir123:

    I’ve leveled games that I found on location that weren’t level.

    Is that a pinjack in your pocket?

    #30 1 year ago
    Quoted from Aurich:

    That's like reading this thread and going "this didn't really deliver the experience I wanted, I'm done with Pinside".

    And yet we just keep coming back...

    Just like location pinball lol

    #32 1 year ago

    Do a staycation. RLM in your area has a great lineup. Look at the amount of pins up here in TC, Right Brain over 30 in addition to our lineup. Bay City (Crazy Quarters), or Kalamazoo (One Well) has you covered as well. Michigan has a ton of locations ran by people that care.

    #33 1 year ago

    It's like playing basketball in a gym vs playing at the park with unlevel rims and no net. Some parks are better than others though.

    #34 1 year ago
    Quoted from jdzwir123:

    I’ve leveled games that I found on location that weren’t level.

    Love your can-do attitude for the betterment of all who come after you! Curious though, you folks who route games, how do you feel about a customer tuning the level point?

    Quoted from skink91:

    Also - let the location know what’s wrong with their games when you see it. While it would be nice to think at the end of each day they go through each and every game to make it play perfectly, that ain’t how things work.

    Why don't more routed pins have operator contact info under the glass? "Is my game working ok? Want one at your location? Have one to sell? Email me at [email protected]"

    -Rob
    -visit https://www.kahr.us to get my daughterboard that helps fix WPC pinball resets or my replacement Type 1 sound board for classic Williams games

    #35 1 year ago

    My main complaint about location play, even on games that are playable and maintained, is the volume being too low. I'll still patronize the operators and play unless the game is way messed up though - gotta keep it alive out there in the wild, people.

    My latest (unplanned) location experience was last Friday - first time at a local bar (Montys, Ann Arbor MI), looking for the bathroom, turn the corner and there are 4 pins, 2 of which I'd never played. So after we chow, my friend and I get some singles and jump on RUSH. Few minutes later, a woman brings 2 shrieking little kids in the game room, puts some money in the pool table, plops the balls on the table and leaves. The kids are screaming and slamming the balls around, and when they're finally out of balls they start climbing and jumping on the pool table. Me and my buddy are like, wtf - - Mom eventually returns, so we figure cool, then she sits there on her phone and does nothing while the kids keep treating the pool table like a jungle gym. We cut the night short. Depending on my mood on any given night, I may have confronted Mom (and shortly thereafter dad, I'm sure) or let one of the employees know, but I wasn't in the mood.

    I know this is no fault of the operator and aside from the volumes being too low (even though the games were in a separate room away from the bar) they were in good shape (Spiderman coulda used a cleaning, and I cleaned the glass on Stranger Things but otherwise, kudos). Just posting because it's a thread about location play and I'm bored at work....

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    #36 1 year ago
    Quoted from gdonovan:

    They knew, there was several signs on the machines aside from the Hobbit that still played but had zero sound.

    Quoted from rkahr:

    Why don't more routed pins have operator contact info under the glass? "Is my game working ok? Want one at your location? Have one to sell? Email me at [email protected]"

    Yep. They should absolutely have contact info and a pen/paper for recording issues.

    I do give these guys/gals a lot of ‘grace’ though, as I know many location’s ops are just regular dudes with separate 9-5’s (and families) so when they show up they are already running ragged and having a TODO list makes their lives a lot easier.

    #37 1 year ago

    I hardly play games on location, most games are sloppy and the volume turned way down. No better place to play than your own home with a subwoofer connected and the volume turned up.

    #38 1 year ago

    I will say this as well… if location pinball dies, pinball dies. Period.

    There is zero chance to get enough new players into this hobby so it survives without it. Supporting the community at every opportunity is critical.

    #39 1 year ago
    Quoted from jdzwir123:

    I’ve leveled games that I found on location that weren’t level.

    I was gonna say, I've been that guy myself many times lol

    #40 1 year ago

    This has been the same argument since the beginning of arcades. Some locations the pins are in great shape, and some are shitty.
    The shitty locations will get weeded out. Luckily there's some decent locations in my neck of the woods.

    #41 1 year ago

    Let's just get it out there...

    Location pinball sucks.

    Pinballs break. They break a lot. The cost to keep pinballs running in good condition is WAY out of line with the benefit of having pinballs in a location.

    Pinball locations WILL ONLY succeed (past the three year, 'anybody can make money for three years' time frame) when the owner has an irrational passion, and insists that it succeed.

    I know a bar operator. About twenty years ago, soft tip (plastic tip) dart machines were hot. We put hundreds of them out in taverns, bars, bowling alleys. Then, over a period of about ten years, all those locations slimmed down to a single dart machine, or they don't have a dart machine at all.

    Except for this one bar owner. He has a passion for darts. He personally plays a round of darts against his customers at least a half dozen times a day. He thinks about darts all the time, he dreams about darts. He runs an astonishingly successful dart bar, and his customers are insanely loyal... they won't go anywhere else.

    Passion.

    It's easy to believe in location pinball right now. Lots of people are in the three year window when anybody can make money, and there are a lot of machines out there.

    It won't last.

    Except where it does. Except where there is passion.

    So, to all you location owners that have pinballs... either keep your machines in great playing condition, or get the hell out of the business. If you don't have the passion, you are going to be out of the pinball business soon anyway.

    #42 1 year ago
    Quoted from poppapin:

    This has been the same argument since the beginning of arcades. Some locations the pins are in great shape, and some are shitty.
    The shitty locations will get weeded out. Luckily there's some decent locations in my neck of the woods.

    And the decent locations are where? https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/best-arcades-in-the-usa

    #43 1 year ago
    Quoted from skink91:

    Supporting the community at every opportunity is critical.

    Sounds like someone who advocates for doing business with Classic Arcades.

    It's literally the same argument; Regardless of the quality of service, hand them money because PINBALL!

    No, I don't think so.

    I support the major (AND MINOR) shows because the majority of pins work and work well, there is fellow pinheads to meet and stuff to buy. If the location pinball operators want business, at the bare minimum the equipment has to work to some degree. I'm not going to waste my valuable time and money otherwise. Kudos to the operators who take pride in their operations!

    I brought pins to two shows last year for free play which operated flawless despite being hammered by hundreds of players. It's not hard to keep them running right and clean.

    #44 1 year ago
    Quoted from EaglePin:

    EDIT: Added complete post.
    Seems like it shouldn’t be too difficult for a location to have flippers aligned correctly and a reasonable pitch since play won’t change those things. Just set it up correctly once and it’s done. Level can be impacted as a machine is slid but still should be able to have it reasonably in the neighborhood of level. Too often it does seem difficult to find decently set up pins though.

    How much does it take to have a pinball bar that keeps it's machines in good condition?

    There is a local pinball bar. 30 or so pinballs.

    My friend Matthew does the service there. He shows up Wednesday morning, works all day getting things fixed.

    Then he returns on Friday with parts, usually works until noon, sometimes all day.

    Thats 12-16 hours of extremely skilled labor a week by an astonishingly good technician... to keep 30 pinballs playable.

    Both Matthew, and the bar owner are passionate about pinball. I've got a good feeling that they'll be around for a while.

    #45 1 year ago

    I've always been a little surprised that Pinball manufacturers spend all their time trying to invent new "toys" and such, rather than bullet-proofing what they already have.

    If I was an operator, I would think it would be better to place a "simple, but far less prone to breaking" machine, than something "with the newest bells and whistles".

    If someone were to design a "basic" machine (think EightBallDeluxe) that was built for reliability (and easy repair when it does break), I would think it would be more profitable on location than a "fancy" machine that is broken all the time (and needs time-consuming repairs).

    And as to the argument that "people want the newest features", I think that's BS. Most non-pinheads don't know what's a new feature and what isn't. And pinheads will probably play whatever machine is there.

    Personally, I'd much rather play a simple machine that works well, than a fancy machine that has a bunch of broken stuff on it.

    #46 1 year ago
    Quoted from gdonovan:

    Sounds like someone who advocates for doing business with Classic Arcades.
    It's literally the same argument; Regardless of the quality of service, hand them money because PINBALL!
    No, I don't think so.
    I support the major (AND MINOR) shows because the majority of pins work and work well, there is fellow pinheads to meet and stuff to buy. If the location pinball operators want business, at the bare minimum the equipment has to work to some degree. I'm not going to waste my valuable time and money otherwise. Kudos to the operators who take pride in their operations!
    I brought pins to two shows last year for free play which operated flawless despite being hammered by hundreds of players. It's not hard to keep them running right and clean.

    Not advocating for just handing people money ‘because PINBALL’… if you read my posts, I am advocating for some less extreme positions about writing off location pinball because these games DO go down, especially when they get a lot of play and require a lot of maintenance. When a location has dozens of games, that can add up to a lot of work… and that takes time to do.

    The problem is the subjective nature of that phrase ‘to some degree’ you mentioned - and that definition is totally different from person to person. Writing off someone because you feel they “don’t take pride in their operations” feels a bit extreme to me. Again, every location and set of operations is different and has different constraints… so there is no cookie-cutter set of rules that apply IMHO. That said people can vote with their dollars, just like anything else. I know I do.

    Also… I don’t think I know what ‘Classic Arcades’ even is?

    #47 1 year ago

    I imagine if I got really used to flying private jets, I'd be pretty unhappy with the experience of flying coach again too. Especially if I didn't realize that flying Spirit was the experience it is.

    #48 1 year ago
    Quoted from mbeardsley:

    I've always been a little surprised that Pinball manufacturers spend all their time trying to invent new "toys" and such, rather than bullet-proofing what they already have.
    If I was an operator, I would think it would be better to place a "simple, but far less prone to breaking" machine, than something "with the newest bells and whistles".
    If someone were to design a "basic" machine (think EightBallDeluxe) that was built for reliability (and easy repair when it does break), I would think it would be more profitable on location than a "fancy" machine that is broken all the time (and needs time-consuming repairs).
    And as to the argument that "people want the newest features", I think that's BS. Most non-pinheads don't know what's a new feature and what isn't. And pinheads will probably play whatever machine is there.
    Personally, I'd much rather play a simple machine that works well, than a fancy machine that has a bunch of broken stuff on it.

    Sounds like you're describing the current 3-tier game model, Pro, Prem and LE - most operators go for a Pro w fewer features/mechs for increased reliability.

    #49 1 year ago
    Quoted from mbeardsley:

    I've always been a little surprised that Pinball manufacturers

    Not to derail this thread... but you haven't quite seen the pinball market experiment with exactly what you are saying.

    People SAY they want...

    But then you do EXACTLTY that, and they don't.

    Manufacturers have tried to do exactly what you say... and have been punished by poor sales, poor reviews, every time.

    History:

    People SAID thay wanted a simpler machine, like the old days when EM's would last and last.

    Alvin G. and Company. Put out Pistol Poker. Reliable, came with a big box of parts, in case people had any problems (we didn't).

    They sold 200.

    The same year, WMS produced Twilight Zone, Judge Dredd, Indiana Jones, Star Trek the Next Generation.

    They sold a gazillion complex games with complex toys.

    Breakshot. (One of my favorite games!) Simple, well developed layout. Innovative ways to make it astonishingly easy to repair. (Open the front coin door, and the game actually knew every light bulb in the game, and would tell you if there were any bulbs you needed to change!). Breakshot is a particularly good example of DON'T GIVE PEOPLE WHAT THEY ASK FOR!!! Because operators were complaining... oh how they were complaining... complaining over and over that they couldn't buy an inexpensive pinball that played well for their routes. Breakshot was the 'value line' flagship machine. Solid, fun game, without all the development of toys, sold for quite a bit less than the competition.

    Breakshot sold 1000. While the competition's machines were selling Tales of the Arabian Nights, Scared Stiff, Safecracker in the thousands and thousands.

    People said, give us great machines, instead of all this new complicated toys! Something that will be fun to play like Pinbot!

    Jackbot. EXACTLY the same layout as pinbot. No new engineering, no fancy toys, just solid rules, engaging gameplay.

    Jackbot sold 2400. While Theatre of Magic, Attack from Mars (admittedly simple!), sold thousands and thousands more machines.

    So it's the 2000's!

    And Stern... bless their hearts... LISTENED to their customers. Big mistake.

    People SAID they wanted a simple layout, no fancy toys, that classic gameplay.

    Beatles. Arguably one of the poorest selling pinballs in history. I knew distributors that still had Beatles pinballs in boxes three years after they were released. Sold out now, but an absolutely TERRIBLE business move.

    So, you play pinball.

    Ever played Addams Family? Ever played Twilight Zone? Ever Played Circus Voltaire? Ever played Monster Bash? Ever played a Premium new Stern pinball?

    How much of your play time is spent on:

    Pistol Poker.
    Breakshot.
    Jack-Bot.
    Beatles.

    You can't even find these machines to play... because they were spectacular failures.

    So... Hehe. I disagree with your premise.

    #50 1 year ago
    Quoted from skink91:

    Not advocating for just handing people money ‘because PINBALL’… if you read my posts, I am advocating for some less extreme positions about writing off location pinball because these games DO go down, especially when they get a lot of play and require a lot of maintenance. When a location has dozens of games, that can add up to a lot of work… and that takes time to do.

    When you drive two states away to visit a advertised pinball location and half the machines are DOWN it gives a bad impression. My experience checking out other locations isn't much better. Unless slack operators step up, location pinball will die. I'm all for maximum exposure to the public hence helping setup a show in a mall last year.

    If the machines are broken, the public is going to get the wrong impression.

    Quoted from skink91:

    Also… I don’t think I know what ‘Classic Arcades’ even is?

    Are you serious?

    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/avoid-ebay-seller-classicarcades

    There are 114 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 3.

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