Notice: This topic is just my opinion. It isn't a prediction of the future and I am not looking to upset anyone. I am a new pinsider just wanting a friendly discussion on the current pricing of pins. I am sure this discussion has been rehashed over and over but like I said I am new here and just looking to start a friendly discussion. Some seemed to take i personal so I just wanted to put this notice on to avoid any personal attacks.

I have a very strong feeling that sometime in the next 5-10 years pin prices are going to dramatically drop.

Now I am sure a lot of you are reading this and thinking.... "dude, I just sold my Monster Bash for 15k.. you're an idiot". But the fact that you just sold it for that much makes me lean more towards yes. Let me explain why I believe this is most certain. Here are the reasons I feel it will happen (and please remember this is just my "opinion" and if you feel the opposite there is no need to name call etc. I know that anyone who jist spent 10k on a pin doesn't want to accept this reality, but don't take it personal. If you do feel different please explain your reasoning. I would love to hear it.

1. Too high. Too fast.
I've seen pin prices over the past 20 years bounce a bit. Mainly going up with inflation. But in past 10 years prices have surpassed normal increases. Some A titles have literally doubled yearly and what was once a "hard to giveaway" machine is now a "hard to get under 8k". I believe prices have just gone too high waayy too fast!

2. The end of an era.
I think most of us here all know that the pinball era did in fact die. Mainly in the 90's. I am 41 and I saw this with my own two eyes. I watch less and less pins in the arcade then. And the ones I saw no one was playing. Even I myself was not much of a pin player. I was attracted to the Street Fighters and Mortal Kombats. As was everyone else. The Adams family just sit there all alone. Or you saw 2 people over in that section.

Now why is this relevant? Well I personally believe most people become pin owners between the age of 40-60. At 40 we all want to relive our past and finally have the disposable income to make this a reality. But guess what... the 30s crowd now in 10 years won't have a pinball memory to even remember. Because I watched the arcades die. So the next 40 year old crowd are the xbox and playstation generation.

So I personally see demand dropping rapidly in new buyers.

3. Look at prices of each type of pin.
EM's were once hot, now they are dirt cheap. Why? Because those who grew up playing those are up there in age and passing away slowly and not many left want them. At the moment 90s pins are on fire because they are the ones WE grew up playing. So we are hitting the last era. The DMD era.

4. Supply and Demand.
The demand is going to drop eventually. And supply doesn't seem to be a problem. I see 50 A titles a day pop up for sale. And I am sure a lot of you see more. They are not hard to find. Because people are paying so much currently that those who got them a decade ago cheap are cashing in big flipping them.

But those buying now.. well I see a loss in the future if held too long.

5. New generation of players.
Sure, there seems to be this surge of new pin interest. These "Bar-cades" popping up and new young folk are playing. But sadly the prices are running them off. I've personally heard so many saying "I could get a car for that much". So this new group of people (that we need badly to help regrow things) have no interest in buying one. The only people paying these prices are deep pocket older folks who are paying for the nostalgia.

If you have no childhood memories, you aren't going to spend 8k on a machine.

6. Pockets are full.
All those deep pocket (I gotta have it) folk are getting their fill. And soon they will no longer be buying once they get what they want. And... eventually taking huge loses on their collection of I am correct in my prediction. All hobbies have a surge. Suckers come in, the hobbies dies down and that is that. Vinyl had a surge. Retro consoles are surging but will soon fall.

7. Remakes.
8k for NIB or decades of wear and tear. Sure we all love original but playfield sadly take beatings.

So.... what is your opinion? I'll attach a poll as well.

Do you see it continuing to get out of control? Or do you see an economic bubble bursting soon and pin prices collapsing?

Sorry that I posted something already discussed. But then again with THOUSANDS of post on here what hasn't been?

Every post you see on PS today was discussed last week. I didn't see a recent discussion and I brought up an old topic but just voiced my personal opinion. And considering I am new here it is fair that I can't read every one posted.

It appears some also got butthurt based on their replies (why they even bothered to click on the subject and not just scroll by it is beyond me, but that is what some people do. They complain about complainers never realizing the hypocrisy of their own post).

Most likely replies from those who bought in at the peak I guess. Understandable.

So sorry for rehashing a sore subject that's been discussed I guess. If a moderator wishes to del3ete this post, I don't mind.

Maybe my next topic will be "what can I talk about pin related that has never been discussed."

Wish me luck! Lol

I agree, but you are a minority. There are not many 30 something buyers spending 8k. Not enough to sustain the influx.

Nor do I see many coming in later.

I was at a barcade last week. I noticed a few younger players. One was playing MM. I talked breifly to him. He said, "This is fun, I wanna get one of these". I told him the price and he said "for these olders ones over here? That's insane".

True story.

Well I clearly stated it was my opinion
And yes you arw correct, it isn't housing but all retro hobbies have bubbles.

And as I stated a lot of 20-30 year olds are discovering pinball at barcades. But are they buying one for their homes? No. Very few are.

They are leaving the barcades, hitting ebay, yelling "WTF!" And closing the laptop.

We definitely have new players. And we are scaring them away. That was one of my points.

Well actually you can... you just hope some idiot is willing to pay way too much for it. And currently some people are buying fun at a premium.

It was an example but unfortunately most sellers on Craigslist and yardsale pages get their prices from ebay. Trust me, I've been on craigslist hoping to find that one guy with a MM for 3k.. apparently they all seem to know what it's going for

Bu maybe one day I'll find that old lady who doesn't price check her pins before listing them lol

Good point. Sadly out of those 100 new pin buyers 1 got the deal and 99 have to pay 8k and walk away.

I'm hoping I find one myself. I don't even own a 90s pin but want one badly. But I can't afford one. So Im waiting for tha miracle.. or waiting for the fall in price.

Hopefully it comes.

I agree. There are some good titles coming out but sadly they are overpriced also and the quality is declining. Or at least that's the word on the street.

Being a new "owner" doesn't mean I haven't followed pins for many years. I have been a long time arcade lover and knew arcade owners. I also looked into buying many time but never had the money or space for one until recently.

But being "New" doesn't make me blind.

Maybe instead of focusing on me you could focus on the topic. Maybe justify these prices. I'm all ears. That's the point of the debate.

And also google "opinion". I think you got it confused with the word "wizard". I only stated why I "felt" prices will fall. I never claimed I knew they would with certainty.

Maybe I should have put my "opinion disclaimer" at the beginning in bold :-/

So far I've been havimg a friendly "debate " with others on why I feel prices might fall. Only one person (you) decided to attack me personally by stating how I couldn't possibly have an opinion since I'm new and how I can't predict the future.

So feel free to ignore. I won't miss the trolls one bit.

And if hearing their 10k MM might fall hurts feeling. Well, people shouldnt invest so high.

And maybe you shouldnt take my debate topic so personal. I clearly stated others could tell me why they feel differently (without insulting me personally)

Honestly I'm trying to broaden my search. I have a few lower cost machines I have been looking into getting. But as for the A titles I have accepted I'll probably never own one without a lot of luck or a lotto win lol

Hello kind sir! Thank you for the link. I am always looking for deal close to home!

I am mainly talking about A titles. A know a lot of machines are still cheap (as of now).

When I mentioned 30 somethings I was mainly making a point that the majority of them never even played pinball, or seen one for that matter. So my point I guess was that there won't be many 30 something buyers compared to 40+ers. If that makes sense.

And that is awesome that you were fortunate enough to have gotten those deals! Sadly a lot of people are paying premiums. I'm like you mentally. I'm just holding out for that deal but they are hard to find.

I just can't see why someone would drop 10k before shopping around. I am guessing some have deep pockets and just jump at the first one they see.

The weird part is the buyers have the power. If people stop paying 10k for one it will drop. But that demands people showing patience I guess. And some with money might not care to hold out.

That is currently why I own an older model lol. I had to get a beat up machine and fix it myself. I wish now I had gotten one 10 years ago. But I waited and never expected these prices this quickly.

Hopefully I get to expand my addiction lol. But sadly I am one of the poor ones that have to wait longer for the deals.

But this hobby is the only one that I have ever seen explode like this.

For example I buy, restore and sell retro consoles. (Nes, snes etc). The price on these dropped very low at one point. Now a lot of 40 years olds wanna re live their childhood and prices went up. On eBay prices are like $150 for a NES. Sure, I still find them for 20 here and there but ththe market value like $100 on average (which is still lower than retail back when they came out).

But with pins the prices skyrocketed. It would be like if a NES was selling for 3k in comparison. That is why I feel like it has to fall. Too much too soon. I mean even with cars you can still buy a nice 72 Chevelle cheaper than a Monster Bash lol

I've never seen a hobby go up so fast in price. But I could be wrong and missed some.

Well I don't have dead on numbers. Just basing my numbers off the fact that when I was a teen pinball was alreasy vanishing from the arcades (when we still had arcades). So I was assuming that most after me never saw a pin.

I'm sure some did and some new ones are appearing but it can't be that many. But I could be wrong.

That is why I started this topic. To learn both sides of how people see things.

When I got mine I got it cheap. Ive put money in it but not a ton. I know I'll never get the months of labor back.

But honestly, I dont think I could sell my first pin. This thing is like a first girlfriend lol. And my wife isn't jealous over her at all hehe.

But I see myself keeping this one forever. It taught me so much. And I don't regret my purchase.

I still want a 90's pinball (with objectives vs just pinging points), but I still have fun playing her.

Does the greed in pricing upset me. Absolutely. Cause it prevents me from being about to afford what I want. Even on the lower priced end. But I am keeping my head up and eyes peeled for the deal.

They all start off thin! But the machine wins in the end!! Hehehe

And someone crying over the cryier of spilled milk.

I don't think people will stop playing, I just think we are going to run out of players. Unless we get in new ones because the kids of 2001 and up didn't play pinball. Hell, I bet my nephew has never played on in his life. And the time I tried to get him to a couple of years ago at an arcade at the beach he didn't seem interested.

Please forgive me. What was I thinking to start a discussion on a forum!

I hope one day you can find it in your heart to forgive me.

Any topics I am allowed to speak of your highness?

Not at these prices that won't. But hopefully I am wrong. I guess time will tell.

Maybe they will eventually reach 20k and people will still buy them. Hell, why not just shoot for 50k right?

I don't mind criticism that is "topic related", and I don't mind someone saying "you are wrong and this is why", but what I don't like is someone taking personal shots at me. That is what I meant by the notice.

Kind of like the post that I am replying to. That seems to be directed at me and not the topic at hand. Or the guy who said "I couldn't have an opinion since I was "new". Stuff completely unrelated to the topic.

Not at all what I said. I was saying in 15 years I don't believe you will have many "new" pin players and out of the ones you do have I don't see them invested 10-15k in a machine that they don't have any memories of playing.

And "if" they decide to purchase an 8-10k machine I picture them buying NIB. A couple weeks ago when I was at the barcade I did notice most of the young players were more attracted to the Ghostbusters, and newer Stern and JJ machine. Only the old timers were playing AF and MM. But I did see a few young players trying them.

But younger generations always gravitate to the newer tech. I can't get younger kids to even play NES or SNES. They just don't see why I like it. It's the "memories" that put the extra value on a lot of items in my opinion.

Well please let me know what topic HASN'T been discussed and I'll start that one.

Don't worry, I'll wait.

Actually you said "if you can't take criticism don't post a topic". (sounded directed at me and not the topic, but maybe I was wrong).

See, you get it! Glad someone else could smell the same urine I could.

I mean if someone doesn't like the topic keep scrolling. I'm not forcing anyone to join in.
I don't understand why people click on a topic to complain about the topic when they can just scroll right by!

Well I promise that if you do start a thread, I won't piss in it. And if I don't like the topic of your discussion I will scroll right by it. I won't stop by to tell you how stupid it is. But with that said. I forget and forgive. We are all pinbrothers here and I'm not looking to fight. Just looking to discuss a topic that I personally haven't been in before. I wasn't on PS 6 months ago when this was brought up last time.

Yes, starting a thread is soliciting opinions "on the topic". Feel free to tell me why you think I am wrong or why you agree. Feel free to explain what you believe will happen.

But starting topics here are not to solicit opinions about "me" personally.

But like I said, not trying to fight. Just trying to have a friendly discussion.

I will take some blame. I should have known anyone that dropped 10k on a pin wouldn't like to hear it might drop in price.

I hope I live long enough to be that guy lol.

I don't know how old he is but he appears to be in his 60's I would guess. Hopefully my already damaged back remains strong enough for me to stand with a smile like him.

Well some of your post do seem to be directed towards me, but if I misunderstood then it was my mistake. I think even someone else got the same vibe as I did, but I'm cool if you are. I just noticed you were in VA as well. Nice!

I thought at first it said Bristol... never heard of Bristow.

Well to be honest with you, I don't see them returning to their old prices but dropping dramatically.

For example an A title that lets say was 2k ten years ago that is currently going for 9-10k, I have a feeling they will drop in half down to around 5k. I still see it holding value, but I feel like that extra value (what I call the nostalgia value) is going to get trimmed off once all the deep pockets have one in their collection.

I mean anything can do this. A bad economy can knock 1-2k off a pin. The economy, if bad enough, really puts a hurting on all things collectible.

But I believe there will come a time when all the "super serious and wealthy collectors will own a MM for example", and once one of those pins get listed the only buyers left will be those who are more "price conscious" I guess you could say. Then the price will drop till it sells.

Hehehe. You got a point. Except porn ended up becoming free as time went by.

Sure, there is still porn to be bought, but I bet 80% of the world isn't paying for it.

Google: "for example".

Not all examples are 100% accurate. It is just an example to make a point. I wasn't any machine in particular.

Google: "I take forum post WAY too serious and can't resist insulting the poster because I don't agree with him. And I am upset that someone is saying I will lose money on my pin because I spent too much".

Thank you..

Google: "Lonely Internet Troll"

Sure, if that's what you want to do. Obviously you had nothing of value to add to the discussion and had to resort to attacking the poster of said discussion. But whatever gives you pleasure.

"for example"
phrase of example

1.
used to introduce something chosen as a typical case.

Like if I said "for example, John Doe went to Pinfest".
Well that doesn't mean John Doe WENT to Pinfest. It is just an example. "

Wow, I can't believe I have to explain that an example doesn't have to be dead on facts. If I was quoting facts I would have said "for example, remember when xxx pin was 2k in .. etc...

You get it... or maybe not.

Look I get it, you don't agree with me. You think this topic is stupid. You think my opinion (as you put it earlier) doesn't even deserve a topic post on Pinside.

But man you have spent a lot of time in here replying to all my post.

So if I was going to post an "example" of a Troll.. you sir, would fit the bill.

As in which points?

1. People in their 20-30 didn't grow up with arcades and pinball?
I would say that was pretty fair to assume.

2. People with sentimental emotions towards an item will pay more than it is worth?
I think that was a fair statement.

3. Pinball is slow dying off and even though there are new players joining it isn't enough to ever have it back where it was?
I think most of us agree with that.

4. New players who want to buy a machine probably can't afford one at these current prices?
Hell, I can list you off 100 people I know personally who can't. I'm sure you could also.

5. Remakes will hurt the price of the originals
Well, that one is up for debate I guess but right now there are people who own a brand new ATM who didn't buy an older one because the remake was available. So in the end it did in fact hurt the sale of the original.

I can continue. I mean I thought I made some fair proof points. Not all can be validated until the future arrives but most of the facts I presented are pretty evident.

You are correct, Pin is a collectable hobby. That requires "collectors". And we are slowly losing "collectors" as we all grow old and die off.

Soon there will be more machines vs collectors (unless we get some new blood into this hobby). Basic supply and demand.

So a lot of this relies on the new blood. That part I can't predict... I just feel "personally" that prices will run some off. And I am talking a decade down the road. A lot can change in 10 years.

I don't see anything happening overnight, But I see it coming eventually.

I did put that into consideration. But if you really think about it most of these pins were limited from the get go. I mean look at EM's. I still to this day can't believe my Skill Pool even still exist. Only a hair over 2k built and I found one and found others with them and could probably find one tomorrow if I looked hard.

I understand what you mean but I believe we will lose more pinheads than we will lose machines in 10 years.

That is why I mention how available these A titles are. Go to the marketplace and look at how many of these titles are for sale "right now". If I had the money I could have a MM by this weekend. So supply is still there.

But my main point on all of this is the fact that a "new change" is coming that never existed. We are about to have a generation of people "who never played or possibly even seen a pinball machine" become the majority if you get what I mean.

The EM players are dying. The Solid state players are getting old and the DMD players are in their 40-60's. But what happens after the DMD players die off. The Xbox and Playstation generation is next in line. So it will be interesting to see how sales are affected by this. (But hopefully we get new players in. I really want to see pin reflourish to be honest with you. I don't want to see the drop, but feel it might happen).

Truth be told I could get a 10k table if I wanted. But I just can't see spending that much. I am tight with my money and yes, people with less money probably do make these topics. But there are a lot more of us than there are rich people who spend 10k on a pin and not feel it at all.

Ignorance is how Starbucks still sells a cup of coffee for 8 bucks. I can afford a cup, but it doesn't mean I am dumb enough to do it.

I agree. There is this new explosion in interest taking place. A lot of new blood peeking in the room.

I just hope the greed doesn't run them off.

Awesome. So since you are all about examples being dead on facts, tell me this.

How much was Monster Bash in 2007?

You really think this is a troll topic?

I really hope you were trolling when you said that.

Can you provide links to your example?

I agree. Which kind of proves my point more.

If people are buying the cheaper ones and skipping over the shiny ones then that will also cause the over priced shiny ones to fall in price. Because demand will drop.

See my discussion is only about the over priced ones. We all know people can buy cheap ones. That wasn't my point. My point is about why I think overpriced A titles will plummet.

I seriously thought by editing my post and putting a disclaimer on it about this being an "opinion" would help prevent people from assuming I was predicting the future with certainty. I guess I was wrong.

Maybe I should have used all caps and bold?

And now I am a chode.

But hey, it is my fault. I forget that golden rule.

Opinion+Internet=Sh*tstorm lol.

But I have to admit. Being called names is nostalgic. Takes me back to being in kindergarden.

You should apply to be a moderator. Then you can go through and just delete everything you don't like, you know, since skipping topics you are not interested in is your weakness.

Maybe we can change the name from Pinside to DaveH's Pinball Topics That He Only Likes .com

That is exactly the point I was mainly trying to make! Right now a new generation is coming. A generation that doesn't know pinball.

Of course a lot of people are arguing because they saw 200 young players at local events. Well in reality that is still low.

Of course there will be new players, but how many? And the fact that these new kids never had the arcade/pinball experience doesn't the industry.

Just watch "Special When Lit". At the beginning when the guy is telling random folks on the street about PAPA. They are all saying "pinball"? Almost like it is a foreign word or something.

I understand a lot of people don't like to hear anything negative about their hobby they love so much. But ignoring a problem won't make it go away. We need, no I take that back, we HAVE to have new blood coming or the ride is over. And when Burger King releases it's newest burger they don't charge $100 for it. Because that is one definite way to prevent getting new people in your restaurant.

Sorry, I'll remove that part of my topic where I claimed I was "brilliant" for stating an opinion and then asking others what they thought or if they agreed or disagreed.

Sorry to break your heart but I am a completely new member. But I am sure if the last person who posted this got personally insulted as much as I have then I can understand it.

I personally wish Pinside had a delete option. I would have removed this post a long time ago and you can bet I have no interest in doing it again. Or if I do I'll make sure it is all unicorns and rainbows to keep everyone from getting out the pitchforks because they disagree. I honestly had no idea that so many of the people here were incapable of a normal discussion.

Some here have been fine. They see my opinion and say "I disagree, this is why". But there sure has been a lot of kindergarden drama where for some reason if someone disagrees that have to "attack me personally" which I find extremely immature.

I even finished the topic off with a "do you agree, or disagree". I only wanted a friendly discussion on what others thought about the future of the market. Boy was I in for a surprise lol.

OMG!!! You opened Al Capones Vault!

Or maybe you didn't read my earlier post about being into pinball for a long time but finally becoming a buyer due to not having the money and space for one.

But how could I ever know what the prices are without being an owner! That is just impossible!

lol smh.

My boss is a millionaire. A multi millionaire. He is always telling me how easy it is the buy the things I need lol.

I just shake my head and walk away.

I hope they do start dumping them lol. All I come across are those collectors who are 80 years old but horde everything. They want to take them to the grave.

But luckily when they die you can usually get the good price when a relative starts dumping the collection with no clue of the value. But that doesn't always happen :-\

You have 13 also. So I am confused why you were stressing how the other guy had 13?

You missed my post where I said "I hope the industry continues to grow and I hope prices don't plummet because it would be the end of an era".

So I guess your theory of wishful thinking was incorrect. You should maybe catch up on the thread a bit.

It's not a binary world bro.

So me saying I hope the industry doesn't plummet and hoping to find some cheap machines from someones collection when they die is the same?

And by the laugh, putting a laughing emoticon after your statement doesn't make you seem any smarter when you say something dumb by the way. This isn't a binary world.

I should have put "new machine" when I said that part about not being able to afford one. But I thought everyone here has figured out that I am talking about over priced A titles (since I have stated that a bunch of times now). A lot of people keep saying "well buy an older one" and that isn't what I am discussing. I am discussing the huge price jump in certain titles. We all know there are still cheap pins to be had.

Yeah, I'm sure when you posted that screen cap of me only owning 1 machine (basically stating owning 1 machine doesn't give me the right to have an opinion on the market) wasn't an insult either right?
Carry on.

I agree. I believe this is just another "movement" that will be shortly lived.

I think barcades are going to be the next "escape room" trend.

I think they will introduce a lot of new faces into the industry which is a good thing. But I just don't know how long they will stick around. I don't know how many of them will decide to become a home owner of a pin either, and I don't know how many will be willing to pay current prices (on new machine or expensive titles).

Amazing though how much interest this uninteresting topic got though. I just posted it late last night wanting to talk to members here. To see if people felt like I did or felt differently and why. I learned a valuable lesson lol.

This will be my last post here on general topics for discussion.

You know how many times I have heard that. And do you not realizes what you said further proves me point?

If people can't afford the new ones, and they only buy "what they can afford" then that mean less buyers are buying the "expensive" ones. Which means the price will drop when no one is buying them.

This topic isn't about only buying expensive machine. It is about why I feel overprice machines will drop in price.
We all know you can buy cheapers pins, that has nothing to do with my topic.

And I don't mean that to sound rude, just trying to explain why I posted this topic.

Yeah I didn't realize it was so controversial. Like I said, I am new here. I have been following pin prices for a long time and I just felt like talking about how high they were and why I fears a plummet.

In all honesty I have no clue how many times it has been discussed in the past or why some would get upset. I mean I guess I can understand why those who paid 10k might not want to hear it, but it isn't like my words will cause it.

But I learned a lot today lol. I will limit what topics I discuss here out that's for sure! lol

Seriously? This again?

I said the only way I would get lucky and get an A title for cheap would be if someone died and the family sold it cheap unknowingly. Why do you people continue to flip that into "I hope someone dies so I can take advantage of them". Shesh.

Someone did this last night on page one. They said "you can find a cheap one if you look hard enough" and I said, "yeah, maybe if I find a grandma who doesn't know what she has". And of course he said "well you shouldn't pride yourself and wanting to rip off grandma". lol

When I type I honestly feel as if people can see when I am talking about what I could do and what I would do but I guess maybe my English isn't what I think it is.

smh

Well I need to get some work done today and I'm done with the thread.

To those of you who had a civil discussion it was nice chatting with you guys.

To the trolls..... work on it. It is an art if you do it right. Stop making it so obvious.

And to those who overpaid, regret it and fear the uncertain future don't worry. You'll probably flip it long before anything happens I'm sure.

Damn it, he figured me out. I was hoping my simple topic on Pinside would change pinball as we know it! I was hoping tomorrow pin prices worldwide would fall because of my clever attempt and you guys figured me out.

Damn, I need to practice more...

Shucks.

Later folks! I have a 2pm appointment over at Facebook. Trying to get a guy to sell me his 9k pin for 1k by telling him the moon is going to collide into earth. Wish me luck!

Thanks man,

Yeah, I honestly originally thought that the overall opinion with the community was that people wanted prices lower so it would benefit the whole and everyone could have larger collections. I was so wrong!

I did some thinking last night and in all fairness if I had an expensive collection of machines I wouldn't want to hear they could lose value so I do understand why it got personal. I honestly didn't realize how overly sensitive some were about their pinvestments. And then of course you also have the "masters of the universe club" who like prices high so that limits the number of owners so that way they can feel special (and get professional photos taken of them standing next to their Monster Bash 24k Gold Edition). So I can now see why things went south fast.

Next time I will just keep my topics all unicorn farts and pixie dust. Saying things like "pins will continue to go up in price. Eventually they will be 50k and people will have a hard time deciding if they should buy a house or a pinball machine. Stern will announce a new model that features a living space and bed inside of the cabinet as part of the LE features."

BUT.... on the flipside, I did get several personal messages yesterday and all of them were very polite messages. Most of them just people telling me they agreed the market was high, they respected my opinion but warned me on why this was a touchy subject on Pinside. Some forewarned me on who some of the common trolls were and brought light to why the attacks we getting personal. They also warned me to never say anything bad about Stern as well. So I'll make sure I avoid that subject from here out as well. So thanks to you guys.

And for the record I did request the topic be removed with a moderator to avoid anymore hostility but they said no rules were being broken so they couldn't remove it, so oh well.

Live and learn I guess.

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Yeah you got me man. That is exactly what is was. I was starting my master plan to get a cheap pin buy telling people prices would start dropping in 10 years. I figure in 9 years when people start dumping their collections I could get one. I needed a decade to get my list ready.

Yeah I am insulting people "today".

Because when I tried to be civil yesterday they insulted me.

I welcomes anyone who disagreed. I even put in the topic "do you agree? or do you think it will rise".

Does that not sound like someone willing to listen to both sides?

Maybe you need to start at the beginning of the discussion and tell me who drew first blood (on the personal hits).

Because from my knowledge I was talking about an industry and no one personally and suddenly you guys went into:

"What an idiot"
"He only owns one pinball machine, what does he know"
"Another newb who knows it all"

Etc, etc.

So if you clowns wanna make it personal, so will I.

I think this prediction is something collectors of all time lengths have. Not all agree it will happen, some feel this way also, but I don't believe it is just something new pinheads have.

And technically I am not new. Sure I am a new home owner of a pin but I wouldn't say I am new to pinball all together. And I would never claim to know it all. I just felt like a new change was coming with the next generation of kids. So I presented said theory and truly want to hear what people think. (about the industry that is... not me personally lol)

People resort to attacking me personally when they have no defense to their argument.

It is definitely strange here at time. But trolls are gonna troll. They will insult you, wait for you to defend yourself (or counter attack) then post stuff like "well maybe if you didn't insult people you wouldn't get attacked".

So they have to be trolling.... god, I hope so.

I never considered "asking me for evidence" as an attack. That isn't "personally" toward me as a person. Disagreeing isn't personal either. We all know the difference. And thank you for actually taking my opinion and challenging it. That is completely fine with me, that is why I posted this. I wanted to hear other peoples theories. So give me a second to read it over and I'll answer.

Lol... I would love to be there when you posted that.

"Quickly bring my opinion about your motives"

Seems a little personal to claim I had personal motives and not just a theory? I mean, that is fair to think on my end wouldn't you agree? But hey, if you weren't trolling that is awesome and thanks. Glad to hear and sorry if I took it the wrong way.

I did feel as if many were though. lol.

I do I.T. work for a living. in the 90's I warned a lot of people of why I felt the dotcom phase was never going to pan out. I couldn't believe how much money people were getting to start random idiotic websites. I wanted a lot of my friend to not start one because it made no sense.

I had no motives. I just posted a theory I had and we all saw how that ended.

Will I be right about pins? Hell I don't know lol. That is why I am here listening to all sides.

But I have no motives. Just curiosity.

Yes, you are correct. I said I didn't want to buy a pinball machine that is worth 4-5k for 10k.

And yes I am aware that cheaper options exist. Though they have no relevance to a topic about a personal theory about prices dropping on overpriced pins.

And I do own a cheap busted up old EM pin. Because I have low standards.

Or maybe I should re-titled it "A subject you will hate. Come in and get angry. Or keep scrolling. Or come in and get angry. Just come in you know you want to!".

You know that I will totally agree with!

If someone buys a 5k pin and puts a lot of money into it and restores it back to mint, hell yeah, makes some profit.

Truth be told I can see why some pins cost what they do. Unfortunately a lot of people own a worn out MM and go "hey, Bob sold his for 10k, I'll post mine for 10k. Then someone desperate for that machine (with pockets deep enough to not feel it) will snatch it up. They don't care, they just gotta have it! They used to play that all the time as a kid, how cool would it be to own it!

Then another sellers says "man, Joe sold his crappy MM and he got 10k also, maybe I can get 11k.

That is the artificial value I see dying off the moment all the deep pocket buyers dry up. You can only fish a lake for so long before it dries up.

(Disclaimer: The prices I used are examples and may not reflect actual values.)

But see this is where part two of my theory comes into play. I agree that there will always be deep pockets but how many more pockets are coming to the store?

This is the one thing that makes me wonder the most. Will the next generation (the generation that grew up without pins and arcades) will they even be interested in pin. And if so how many of those (which I believe will be low number) are going to have deep pockets. I believe pin is about to reach that next level. A level it never reached before. That level where pin was forgotten in the past. And that past is catching up with us.

But maybe I am wrong and a TON of new kids will discover pin and they will all make 100k a year and have no problem paying these prices.... but I got a gut feeling it isn't going to be that glorious.

I love how people like you come in here and only have to address OP and focus on just OP only while completely ignoring that OP has 499 post in this forum, 470 of them are people all asking him stuff at the same time.

Do you think I have no life and I am just sitting here typing nonstop trying to reply to every single person?
Most of the time I just refresh, see the last post and go from there.

Ok, in all fairness I'll retitled that.

Artificial value will now be known as "temporary value".

Well at least I am staying focused on the topic and not saying dumb stuff like "hurr durr, you can buy another machine hurr durr".

Talking to you is like this:

Hey, did you guy see how much the Big Mac was at McDonalds? Do you guys think the price will get higher or lower?

You: Hurr durr, you know you don't have to be all elite and eat the Big Mac you can just buy a double cheeseburger and lower your standards.

Which has NOTHING to do with the topic lol.

So yeah, maybe you should catch up on the discussion yourself my friend.

Lol.. When did I ever claim to have a MB? 50 post of how I would never buy one at the current price and you ask how much mine will be worth. Come on man, see this is why I can't keep up with people. I have to spend 30 mins sorting through the nonsense.

And my topics clearly states I predict the fall in 5-10 years. That is when I predict the overpriced super titles (as I call them) to drop about 30-40% in value roughly.

How does someone saying "if you don't like the price buy something cheaper" have ANYTHING to do with a discussion about "prices of pins dropping in 10 years"?

Seriously, explain this to me. Cause we all know we don't have to buy them... we all know this. But what does that have to do with the topic of will prices drop or continue to rise.

Maybe I am missing something.

Ok awesome. You shared one guys view. Sweet.

I wasn't aware than once Rarehero posted that the topic is finished. That isn't how a discussion works. Nor is "rarehero" anymore correct than I am. in 10 years we will know who is right, but as of right now it is all up for discussion.

You know I will agree with that. It is all temporary but there is usually a pretty standard market value. Like right now 72's chevelle's have a certain "average" value so to speak. Like a blue book value. It goes a little up and and little down based on condition.

Now let's say Vin Diesel drives one in the next Fast and Furious and holy smokes everyone's gotta have it. Well you will normally see an influx... one that will roughly last as long as the movie does until Toretto is back to driving his RX-7.. the that "original" blue book value sorta returns. Usually not dead on but close.

So that is what I am referring to. Right now I believe pin is getting a lot of attention. And once people are looking the other way we will return to 2007 prices (plus some).

If you get what I mean... but like I said, I'm not certain of any of this.. just a hunch.

Of course I don't now! That is why it is called a "theory" a "hunch" a "feeling".

I'm not here to tel the future. I am here telling why I feel it is coming. And getting peoples opinion on the matter.

I think everyone here knows I am not a prophet.

Actually I am only talking about ultra highs dropping as of right now.

To be honest with you I see the lower ends going up as more of those will be purchased since higher ends are so overpriced. I believe interest in lower ends will dominate causing the higher ends to no longer becomes as desirable.

Then once the price drops it will all level out.

LOL. Nice!

Nah, I would rather wait for Skill Pool to becomes more popular and sell it during the boom. Maybe it will get featured in a movie or something and I can cash in on the "temporary" value.

I believe with this barcade craze and stuff going on and the fact that almost every overprice pin just happens to be featured in "Pinball Arcade" (which I believe people play and say "man I want this table in real life"). I believe it is giving pin a surge of interest but I don't see it lasting.

Plus once those pinball arcade kids see the price they will continue to play the virtual version.

Which puts me onto a new point. Virtual Cabinets. I can't stand the concept but it seem people are going in that direction due to the high prices. Gonna be real sad when pinhead price out all the new blood and have them all buying virtual cabs.

Sad indeed.

Amen... can't wait to get off work to go play my sad one machine hahaha.

Sorry if I got snappy, just trying to work and have people complaining that I'm not replying to enough people and I am trying me best I promise lol.

You should have read more of the discussion then. We have all covered that "I have one pin and are new here part" repetitively.
But thanks for reminding me.

You might find this shocking but just because I started buying pins doesn't mean I haven't been a player. Or followed prices for years. Or watched the trends. You can do all of those things without owning a single pin.

I don't own a lambo either what I can tell you what one cost and I can tell you if the price skyrocketted overnight. Right?

You love calling people names don't ya... ever think name calling is douchey?

And look I know many people like you. People who can't see 10 years in the future no more than I can but have to be right.

At least I am listening to people and going back and forth in the discussion. Because my points are valid and their points are valid and I am enjoying the debate.

But I guess you just want me to say "Rarehero" solved it don't ya?

Come on man.. do you really want me to say it?
You know you do....
I will if you want.

Don't worry. I am sure you will sell your overpriced pins long before they drop. Just keep an eye out and don't wait to the last minute and you'll be fine.

Did rarehero have the definitive answer on those post also?

I bet he called someone a douche didn't he?

I also remember a time they couldn't give them a away.