(Topic ID: 188515)
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Quoted from g0nz0:I agree, but you are a minority. There are not mant 30 something buyers spending 8k. Not enough to sustain the influx.
What supporting evidence do you have? I know several people in their teens, 20s, and 30s who own games. Granted, not all of them are big spenders, but hobbyists can be any age.
Pinball is not just an "old guy" thing. Walk into any show these days and there is a fairly good cross section of the population flipping away--men, women, young, and old.
Quoted from g0nz0:They are leaving the barcades, hitting ebay, yelling "WTF!" And closing the laptop.
You're making another assumption that ebay would be their first stop--pinball machines can be found on social media, selling apps, craigslist, etc.
You're also assuming that newbies won't talk to peers in the hobby offering them advice on a potential purchase.
Quoted from g0nz0:It was an example but unfortunany most sellers on Craigslist and yardsale pages get their prices from ebay. Trust me, I've been on craigslist hoping to find that one guy with a MM for 3k.. apparantly they all seen to know what it's going for
You're not looking hard enough. Deals do surface. They just don't linger for more than 10 minutes.
However, if you're after 90s games, the supply is drying up quick. There is only so many of those to go around. 70s & 80s pins are much more common since there were many more of those made.
Quoted from g0nz0:Good point. Sadly out of those 100 new pin buyers 1 got the deal and 99 have to pay 8k and walk away.
You're making assumptions again that they pay high prices.
I was bringing home a game or two a month by bargain hunting...until I ran out of space, that is.
Quoted from g0nz0:Maybe instead of focusing on me you could focus on the topic. Maybe justify these prices. I'm all ears. That's the point of the debate.
I think some of the prices are bonkers, which is why I don't pay them. I'm more of an opportunistic bargain hunter, rather than someone who tries to hunt down one or two specific titles. If you are open to a wide range of games, a wide range of games will be available to you. If you are only open to one or two titles, well, then pickings will be slim.
Quoted from g0nz0:When I mentioned 30 somethings I was mainly making a point that the majority of them never even played pinball, or seen one for that matter. So my point I guess was that there won't be many 30 something buyers compared to 40+ers. If that makes sense.
I don't know why you're still making that assumption. People in their 30s would have seen arcades in the 90s, and in the 90s, some arcades still had pins. Heck, TAF came out in 1992 and it was everywhere for at least a few years after that.
Quoted from g0nz0:Not as these prices that won't.
Don't go for the most popular A-list machines and you won't have that problem 
Quoted from g0nz0:Not at all what I said. I was saying in 15 years I don't believe you will have many "new" pin players and out of the ones you do have I don't see them invested 10-15k in a machine that they don't have any memories of playing.
Out of all the games I own, I only played 1 of them when it was brand new (although I did play several others that are not in my collection). All the others in my collection I either played for the first time at a show, or played them for the first time after repairing/restoring them.
Quoted from g0nz0:Thank you..
Technically, the game was only made available this year...
Quoted from g0nz0:So if I was going to post an "example" of a Troll.. you sir, would fit the bill.
Pezpunk is not trolling. He's asking where the facts are that back up your statements and opinions.
Quoted from g0nz0:1. People in their 20-30 didn't grow up with arcades and pinball?
I would say that was pretty fair to assume.
Then you would assume incorrectly. Lots of areas around the country still had access to arcades and pinball machines throughout the 90s. The arcades in my area sure did. But granted, not all of them survived much into the 2000's.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/neatocoolville/117196950/
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/pictures-of-arcades
http://forums.sega.com/showthread.php?504334-Arcade-nostalgia-pictures-from-the-80-s-and-90-s
Quoted from g0nz0:2. People with sentimental emotions towards an item will pay more than it is worth?
I think that was a fair statement.
Sometimes yes, sometimes no. I have a strong attachment to AFM. It ate a lot of my quarters back in the day, and I still enjoy playing it, but I'm not going to drop $8k on one. Sentimentality doesn't always outweigh common sense and practicality.
Quoted from g0nz0:3. Pinball is slow dying off and even though there are new players joining it isn't enough to ever have it back where it was?
I think most of us agree with that.
Heck no. Location play is bouncing back in the form of barcades. More pinball shows are popping up, and shows have been getting bigger and better every year. We are also seeing an increase in news coverage of barcades, tournaments, shows, and other events.
There are 5 significant manufacturers, while only a few years ago Stern was the last one standing. We haven't had this many new titles in one year in a long time. Pinball hasn't been this strong in a while, and it's on the rise. If it wasn't on the rise, there would be no reason for business owners to invest in pinball manufacturing.
Quoted from g0nz0:4. New players who want to buy a machine probably can't afford one at these current prices?
Hell, I can list you off 100 people I know personally who can't. I'm sure you could also.
I just bought a nice solid state game for $100 a couple days ago. It needs some work, and it's not a coveted A-list title, but you sure can't beat that deal. There are plenty of affordable games out there to fit any budget. You just need to put in some of the leg work to find a bargain.
$400 gold wings: https://pinside.com/pinball/market/classifieds/ad/49145
$450 target alpha: https://pinside.com/pinball/market/classifieds/ad/49127
$700 cybernaut: https://pinside.com/pinball/market/classifieds/ad/49097
$400 alien poker: https://pinside.com/pinball/market/classifieds/ad/49067
$400 pinball pool: https://pinside.com/pinball/market/classifieds/ad/49006
$1000 high speed: https://pinside.com/pinball/market/classifieds/ad/46949
$400 cleopatra: https://pinside.com/pinball/market/classifieds/ad/48806
$300 disco '79 cocktail, ready to play: https://pinside.com/pinball/market/classifieds/ad/48687
$600 Lady Luck: https://pinside.com/pinball/market/classifieds/ad/48410
$1000 playboy, fully working: https://pinside.com/pinball/market/classifieds/ad/48168
$800 future spa, fullly working: https://pinside.com/pinball/market/classifieds/ad/48069
Plus various working or project EM games under $1k.
And these are all available--right now.
Quoted from g0nz0:5. Remakes will hurt the price of the originals
Well, that one is up for debate I guess but right now there are people who own a brand new ATM who didn't buy an older one because the remake was available. So in the end it did in fact hurt the sale of the original.
Maybe there's a small dip in price, but collectors still value an original game. You won't see an $8k game suddenly drop to $3k just because a remake came out. This was already proven with the release of MMr and AFMr.
Recent sold listings for AFM:
https://pinside.com/pinball/market/classifieds/archive?s=1&r&keywords=&ad_machine_key=792&ad_condition=0&machine_type=&ad_machine_manuf=&year_from=&year_to=&radius_distancekm=322&sort_by=ad_end_date&sort_order=DESC#results
And for MM:
https://pinside.com/pinball/market/classifieds/archive?s=1&keywords=&ad_machine_key=869&ad_condition=0&machine_type=&ad_machine_manuf=&year_from=&year_to=&radius_distancekm=322&sort_by=ad_end_date&sort_order=DESC#results
Basically, your opinions are just that--opinions. My experience (and judging from the other comments, the experience of other people too) is the complete opposite from yours. I feel mine are supported by real-world examples and facts that I can back up with proof.
Quoted from Syco54645:Would you spend 6500 on a nib though? I feel for 6k or less they would have sold like crazy.
Eh, maybe. Under $6k, and definitely.
Quoted from Syco54645:I feel we may be reaching saturation for barcades like we did with sports bars a few years back and that there are too many to survive.
There are no barcades in my area, unfortunately. There is one supposedly opening later this summer, though. There's no over-saturation here.
Quoted from g0nz0:I should have put "new machine" when I said that part about not being able to afford one. But I thought everyone here has figured out that I am talking about over priced A titles (since I have stated that a bunch of times now). A lot of people keep saying "well buy an older one" and that isn't what I am discussing. I am discussing the huge price jump in certain titles. We all know there are still cheap pins to be had.
Well, you either can afford a new machine or you can't. Then if you still want a pinball machine, you look for a used one or a project. This is just like if you wanted to buy a car. If you can't afford a new one, you get a used one. If you have the skills to do repairs, then you can buy a cheap one to fix up.
Quoted from g0nz0:You know how many times I have heard that. And do you not realizes what you said further proves me point?
If people can't afford the new ones, and they only buy "what they can afford" then that mean less buyers are buying the "expensive" ones. Which means the price will drop when no one is buying them.
This topic isn't about only buying expensive machine. It is about why I feel overprice machines will drop in price.
We all know you can buy cheapers pins, that has nothing to do with my topic.
And I don't mean that to sound rude, just trying to explain why I posted this topic.
I'll have to disagree. NIB games are still selling, just not everyone is buying them. Just like not everyone is buying brand new cars.
NIB prices have been going up, not down. There is enough demand to sustain the rising prices so far. When there isn't, then prices will start to decline in order to remain competative. What we probably won't see anytime soon is a sudden crash, which is what you seem to think, based on the title of the thread: "Why I feel Pinball Prices Are Going To Plummet"
Quoted from darcangeloel:forceflow - You bought a SS machine for $100? I've never seen one go for that price. If you don't mind me asking what game was it? I've only ever seen Bingo's go for that price. I'd love to buy a machine for $100 hahaha.
One of the Atari pins. I've obtained various other games in the $100-$300 range before, you just need to keep your eyes and ears open and be ready to pounce quickly.
Quoted from g0nz0:Yeah, I honestly originally thought that the overall opinion with the community was that people wanted prices lower so it would benefit the whole and everyone could have larger collections. I was so wrong!
Do most people wish some pins were more affordable? Definitely. Do some people think prices are high on certain titles? Sure.
Quoted from g0nz0:So I can now see why things went south fast.
Not quite. Predicting a big price crash simply doesn't line up with reality. That's why people were disagreeing with your thoughts about prices and market projections in your first post.
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