Coto De Caza, CA
We have a regular Nostradamus on Pinside folks. Hurry and sell your pins, they are going to $0
What a chode
(Topic ID: 188515)
Quoted from jgentry:There's a lot more people that make in the 150-350K range then people realize. There's also a lot of people doing it at a much younger age then people realize. Lots of area's of the country are booming and there are good jobs for skilled workers that pay very well. No one in my area makes under 30K unless you are high school educated and in retail of some sort. Factory positions even start at $14 and up with great benefits in most cases.
The good thing about pinball is that there are pins for everyone's budget. If you plan and save even someone making 30K a year can build up a nice collection of cool games slowly over time. There's no need to chase after all of the new shiny games.
I agree. Which kind of proves my point more.
If people are buying the cheaper ones and skipping over the shiny ones then that will also cause the over priced shiny ones to fall in price. Because demand will drop.
See my discussion is only about the over priced ones. We all know people can buy cheap ones. That wasn't my point. My point is about why I think overpriced A titles will plummet.
Quoted from kpg:We have a regular Nostradamus on Pinside folks. Hurry and sell your pins, they are going to $0
What a chode
I seriously thought by editing my post and putting a disclaimer on it about this being an "opinion" would help prevent people from assuming I was predicting the future with certainty. I guess I was wrong.
Maybe I should have used all caps and bold?
And now I am a chode.
But hey, it is my fault. I forget that golden rule.
Opinion+Internet=Sh*tstorm lol.
But I have to admit. Being called names is nostalgic. Takes me back to being in kindergarden.
Sana'a
Quoted from DaveH:When the heck is that Pinside Purge going to happen...
You should apply to be a moderator. Then you can go through and just delete everything you don't like, you know, since skipping topics you are not interested in is your weakness.
Maybe we can change the name from Pinside to DaveH's Pinball Topics That He Only Likes .com
Quoted from Minneapolispin:Every year I go to the big Back to the 50's car show in the Twin Cities. I think they have something like 30,000 cars registered. You look around and 75% of the guys with their cars are 60+ years old. I've often wondered if the classic car market will take a dive in the next 10-20 years as the number of people who had attachments to these in their younger years begin to pass.
It's already happened in some sectors of the collector car market. I'm pretty deeply into that hobby as well, and I've watched the prices on brass era cars plummet over the last decade. Why? Because all of the people who may have remembered those cars from their childhood are now gone, and almost no one who isn't already in that segment of the market wants to get into it. A corollary in the pinball hobby would be all of those bingo machines that you can hardly give away these days.
The cars from the 30s and 40s have suffered less in a sense, as there are plenty of hot rodders who are just salivating to buy up those restored cars and destroy them by turning them into whatever monstrosities they build.
Other segments of the old car hobby are still pretty affordable. While the 57 Chevy is the Monster Bash of that hobby, there are many other makes and models of similar vintage that can be acquired for just a few thousand dollars. The cars of the 60s and 70s that weren't muscle cars are downright cheap.
Quoted from g0nz0:My point is about why I think overpriced A titles will plummet
Every newb for 20 years has said this. What makes you so brilliant?
They're A for a reason. Everyone likes and wants them. There expensive for a reason. Not enough supply to meet demand.
Want an A title for cheap? Get lucky and find a beater. There's no reason someone who owns and loves a game will sell it for less than its worth.
I felt I needed a break from Pinside so I decided to do some internet searches. I googled this:
"for example,clueless newbie,I take forum post WAY too serious and can't resist insulting the poster because I don't agree with him. And I am upset that someone is saying I will lose money on my pin because I spent too much,I'm too poor to afford the games I want so I'm gonna pray for a market meltdown like hundreds of broke newbies with sticker shock before me,Lonely Internet Troll,making parents basements jokes and thinking I'm the first,Projection"
What The hell?, I ended up back on Pinside.
Quoted from drsfmd:It's already happened in some sectors of the collector car market. I'm pretty deeply into that hobby as well, and I've watched the prices on brass era cars plummet over the last decade. Why? Because all of the people who may have remembered those cars from their childhood are now gone, and almost no one who isn't already in that segment of the market wants to get into it. A corollary in the pinball hobby would be all of those bingo machines that you can hardly give away these days.
The cars from the 30s and 40s have suffered less in a sense, as there are plenty of hot rodders who are just salivating to buy up those restored cars and destroy them by turning them into whatever monstrosities they build.
Other segments of the old car hobby are still pretty affordable. While the 57 Chevy is the Monster Bash of that hobby, there are many other makes and models of similar vintage that can be acquired for just a few thousand dollars. The cars of the 60s and 70s that weren't muscle cars are downright cheap.
That is exactly the point I was mainly trying to make! Right now a new generation is coming. A generation that doesn't know pinball.
Of course a lot of people are arguing because they saw 200 young players at local events. Well in reality that is still low.
Of course there will be new players, but how many? And the fact that these new kids never had the arcade/pinball experience doesn't the industry.
Just watch "Special When Lit". At the beginning when the guy is telling random folks on the street about PAPA. They are all saying "pinball"? Almost like it is a foreign word or something.
I understand a lot of people don't like to hear anything negative about their hobby they love so much. But ignoring a problem won't make it go away. We need, no I take that back, we HAVE to have new blood coming or the ride is over. And when Burger King releases it's newest burger they don't charge $100 for it. Because that is one definite way to prevent getting new people in your restaurant.
This is all vaguely reminiscent of somebody's passive-aggressive posts from 2015 and 2016... 
Wait! You don't think that it's... 
Quoted from Rarehero:Every newb for 20 years has said this. What makes you so brilliant?
They're A for a reason. Everyone likes and wants them. There expensive for a reason. Not enough supply to meet demand.
Want an A title for cheap? Get lucky and find a beater. There's no reason someone who owns and loves a game will sell it for less than its worth.
Sorry, I'll remove that part of my topic where I claimed I was "brilliant" for stating an opinion and then asking others what they thought or if they agreed or disagreed.
Quoted from beelzeboob:This is all vaguely reminiscent of somebody's passive-aggressive posts from 2015 and 2016...
Wait! You don't think that it's...
Sorry to break your heart but I am a completely new member. But I am sure if the last person who posted this got personally insulted as much as I have then I can understand it.
I personally wish Pinside had a delete option. I would have removed this post a long time ago and you can bet I have no interest in doing it again. Or if I do I'll make sure it is all unicorns and rainbows to keep everyone from getting out the pitchforks because they disagree. I honestly had no idea that so many of the people here were incapable of a normal discussion.
Some here have been fine. They see my opinion and say "I disagree, this is why". But there sure has been a lot of kindergarden drama where for some reason if someone disagrees that have to "attack me personally" which I find extremely immature.
I even finished the topic off with a "do you agree, or disagree". I only wanted a friendly discussion on what others thought about the future of the market. Boy was I in for a surprise lol.
Quoted from g0nz0:That is exactly the point I was mainly trying to make! Right now a new generation is coming. A generation that doesn't know pinball.
Pinball isn't dependent on generational nostalgia. It only depends on people playing it and loving it. And because machines are only produced in the 100's or 1000's and not millions like video games, there will always be enough people wanting games & not enough games to go around at low prices.
Quoted from g0nz0:Just watch "Special When Lit". At the beginning when the guy is telling random folks on the street about PAPA. They are all saying "pinball"? Almost like it is a foreign word or something.
That doc was made 10 years ago and even Steve Ritchie thought pinball was dead. Look what happened. Resurgence. And even when it was "dead", games were expensive because "enough" people were into it to keep snatching up the remaining inventory.
Pinball will always be niche....even in its low points. But always remember - not many exist. Even if only 1000 people want a machine, but only 800 were made - the price is gonna remain high!
Quoted from g0nz0:Not at these prices that won't. But hopefully I am wrong. I guess time will tell.
Maybe they will eventually reach 20k and people will still buy them. Hell, why not just shoot for 50k right?
You are wrong. Immerse yourself in the pinball hobby a bit more and you will see. Average age in our league is 30-something. Lots of us are buying at today's prices. It's becoming a cliche for young, broke guys new to the hobby to think it's only old, rich guys who can afford to buy new pins. 
By your 30's you should be entering the prime of your career and making decent money.
Quoted from jgentry:There's a lot more people that make in the 150-350K range then people realize. There's also a lot of people doing it at a much younger age then people realize. Lots of area's of the country are booming and there are good jobs for skilled workers that pay very well. No one in my area makes under 30K unless you are high school educated and in retail of some sort. Factory positions even start at $14 and up with great benefits in most cases.
The good thing about pinball is that there are pins for everyone's budget. If you plan and save even someone making 30K a year can build up a nice collection of cool games slowly over time. There's no need to chase after all of the new shiny games.
i dont disagree with that assertion. i have a nice collection but never bought new. nothing wrong with a firepower, high-speed, jokerz, they are awesome games lots of fun. i just dont understand where people get the money for the expensive stuff, apparently enough people have this kind of bread for JJP and sterns to support a business model selling the real expensive stuff.
perhaps the job market is much better in Tennessee then in buffalo, ny. i live in the armpit of the county, really i dont like it here. its a welfare friendly, business and job unfriendly state the job market around here is really pretty bad. there ARE allot jobs here, if you are willing to work for absolute peanuts. its funny because we now have one of the higher minimum wages in the country, $9.70 per hour but really doesnt do any good if the jobs pay $10-11. the rest of the wages have not followed, and our taxes are very high. sales tax, property tax, federal income, state income, ect ect.
Quoted from IdahoRealtor:"........By your 30's you should be entering the prime of your career and making decent money."
.....I'm well into my fifties and still waiting for that to happen.
Quoted from IdahoRealtor:You are wrong. Immerse yourself in the pinball hobby a bit more and you will see. Average age in our league is 30-something. Lots of us are buying at today's prices. It's becoming a cliche for young, broke guys new to the hobby to think it's only old, rich guys who can afford to buy new pins. By your 30's you should be entering the prime of your career and making decent money.
OMG!!! You opened Al Capones Vault!
Or maybe you didn't read my earlier post about being into pinball for a long time but finally becoming a buyer due to not having the money and space for one.
But how could I ever know what the prices are without being an owner! That is just impossible!
lol smh.
Quoted from g0nz0:If people are buying the cheaper ones and skipping over the shiny ones then that will also cause the over priced shiny ones to fall in price. Because demand will drop.
See my discussion is only about the over priced ones. We all know people can buy cheap ones. That wasn't my point. My point is about why I think overpriced A titles will plummet.
No.
Quoted from electricsquirrel:.....Well into my fifties and still waiting for that to happen.
My boss is a millionaire. A multi millionaire. He is always telling me how easy it is the buy the things I need lol.
I just shake my head and walk away.
There is a brick wall coming, and that's when the older players start dumping everything so they can move to Florida and wait for death.
My editor is 25 and actively looking for his first pin. (BK2K Madison WI area if anyone has a lead) So there is hope for these young people to get involved. But we need more "non-ancient" themes to get them interested.
Need to find a bridge... something millennials love as well as older folks (maybe The 80's, see TnA) Young people would snatch up Power Rangers or Pokemon in a heartbeat but those pins would never get made because 50 year old men wouldn't buy them NIB in the first place. Jurassic World would have a been a great title (30-somethings WORSHIP the original) wonder why nobody made that one?
Quoted from benheck:There is a brick wall coming, and that's when the older players start dumping everything so they can move to Florida and wait for death.
My editor is 25 and actively looking for his first pin. (BK2K Madison WI area if anyone has a lead) So there is hope for these young people to get involved. But we need more "non-ancient" themes to get them interested.
Need to find a bridge... something millennials love as well as older folks (maybe The 80's, see TnA) Young people would snatch up Power Rangers or Pokemon in a heartbeat but those pins would never get made because 50 year old men wouldn't buy them NIB in the first place. Jurassic World would have a been a great title (30-somethings WORSHIP the original) wonder why nobody made that one?
I hope they do start dumping them lol. All I come across are those collectors who are 80 years old but horde everything. They want to take them to the grave.
But luckily when they die you can usually get the good price when a relative starts dumping the collection with no clue of the value. But that doesn't always happen :-\
prime of your career? lol sounds great but i consider myself lucky to have a job. i lost my job paying $19.45 hourly back in july and reality is far removed. i turned down quite a few jobs that paid nothing $12 per hour is not enough for me to even want to go to work. then i got my CDL because im not working for such little money. forget it. better of not even going to work at that pay rate.
as far as collectors dying off, if my son is any indication the hobby will be just fine. he is 6 years old and loves paying my games. he brings his friends over and one of the first places he takes them, the pin room. he had a 7 year old girl in there yesterday playing apollo 13. that's what we need though, young kids will take to it just fine. they need to be exposed to it.
We are at a weird stage where the themes are still targeting the older buyers, but they're ultimately going to be a shrinking demographic in pinball before too long. Pinball needs to grow within the 20s and 30s crowd, but that's hard to do at these prices (as far as collecting goes). I'm in my mid-30s, and I was lucky to get into the hobby and build up a decent collection before prices got to where they are now. If I was just starting to collect, I would feel like the price to entry was a real tough barrier to deal with.
I wouldn't be surprised if the home collector market underwent a bit of a contraction as the older collectors begin to tap out and younger collectors favor location play while they get more financially established in life. I could see that bringing down pricing on the secondhand market, but nothing will ever be able to fully address the lack of available machines if the hobby keeps growing, so prices shouldn't ever just outright crash.
I would love to return to the days of affordable used machines. Even if it meas the devaluation of my collection, I feel like it would be better for everybody if games were generally more affordable.
Quoted from g0nz0:OMG!!! You opened Al Capones Vault!
Or maybe you didn't read my earlier post about being into pinball for a long time but finally becoming a buyer due to not having the money and space for one.
But how could I ever know what the prices are without being an owner! That is just impossible!
lol smh.
Quoted from g0nz0:I hope they do start dumping them lol. All I come across are those collectors who are 80 years old but horde everything. They want to take them to the grave.
Uh huh. 
Quoted from jeffpm:I have 2 pins, less than 2k invested in them, not enough disposable income to buy A list titles, and I still think the premise of the thread is silly
It's a good thing this isn't a binary world... you seem to have your head on straight. Not everyone who has few pins will agree with OP and not everyone with many pins would disagree.
Quoted from g0nz0:You have 13 also lol
But I haven't voiced my opinion on the subject. My point was that it sure seems like someone is engaging in wishful thinking. And WakkyBrakke demonstrated another extreme 
Whether or not prices rise or fall isn't important to me. It's not a binary world.
Quoted from ad356:i dont disagree with that assertion. i have a nice collection but never bought new. nothing wrong with a firepower, high-speed, jokerz, they are awesome games lots of fun. i just dont understand where people get the money for the expensive stuff, apparently enough people have this kind of bread for JJP and sterns to support a business model selling the real expensive stuff.
perhaps the job market is much better in Tennessee then in buffalo, ny. i live in the armpit of the county, really i dont like it here. its a welfare friendly, business and job unfriendly state the job market around here is really pretty bad. there ARE allot jobs here, if you are willing to work for absolute peanuts. its funny because we now have one of the higher minimum wages in the country, $9.70 per hour but really doesnt do any good if the jobs pay $10-11. the rest of the wages have not followed, and our taxes are very high. sales tax, property tax, federal income, state income, ect ect.
Come on down. No state income tax, healthcare friendly, small business friendly, right to work state, friendly people overall. It leads to a lot of jobs and a lot of competition for good candidates from employers.
Quoted from g0nz0:I agree. Which kind of proves my point more.
If people are buying the cheaper ones and skipping over the shiny ones then that will also cause the over priced shiny ones to fall in price. Because demand will drop.
See my discussion is only about the over priced ones. We all know people can buy cheap ones. That wasn't my point. My point is about why I think overpriced A titles will plummet.
I think you missed my point. With a ton of younger people making 6 figures there are more people then ever that can afford the high end games. Pinball is continuing to grow and for the most part the A titles are not going to be made again. New people want to experience them and are going to pay a premium to do so.
Quoted from g0nz0:So feel free to ignore. I won't miss the trolls one bit.
Quoted from g0nz0:since skipping topics you are not interested in is your weakness
You really should put me on ignore, because I'm on this ride all the way to the bottom... I like to hear that thud when the ride stops.
Quoted from ad356:i really wish i knew where some of these collectors get the money for NIB games. from what i can tell and my perspective the typical wages around here are in the toilet. typical factory job is now working for some lowlife temp service paying $12 per hour. i make more then that only because i have a CDL class A, im far from rich but truck drivers are at least in demand. a very high percentage of the population makes less then $30k per year...... before taxes mind you. so is everyone buying these high end pins a filthy stinking rich exec or CEO?
Please don't take offense at this... you live in the middle of nowhere, in the fringes of Appalachia, an hour from one of the most depressed metro areas in the country.
$12 an hour is a very low wage that draws only the least educated and least skilled applicants in most parts of the country-- those who live paycheck to paycheck for life. Most college educated people make far more than $30k -- and the general pinball buying demographic are people who are in their prime earning years. That doesn't make them "filthy sinking rich" executives or CEOs, just guys (and gals) who have a few bucks to burn.
Quoted from jar155:I would love to return to the days of affordable used machines. Even if it meas the devaluation of my collection, I feel like it would be better for everybody if games were generally more affordable.
I have said it before and I will say it again. If tomorrow I woke up and prices adjusted down and my gameroom was suddenly worth half of the value today I would not mind. As long as everything moves roughly the same it will have little impact to me. I am in my early 30s and have no desire to leave pinball. What I have I am quite happy with and really only have room for 3 or 4 more.
Quoted from chadderack:But I haven't voiced my opinion on the subject. My point was that it sure seems like someone is engaging in wishful thinking. And WakkyBrakke demonstrated another extreme
Whether or not prices rise or fall isn't important to me. It's not a binary world.
You missed my post where I said "I hope the industry continues to grow and I hope prices don't plummet because it would be the end of an era".
So I guess your theory of wishful thinking was incorrect. You should maybe catch up on the thread a bit.
It's not a binary world bro.
Quoted from g0nz0:You missed my post where I said "I hope the industry continues to grow and I hope prices don't plummet because it would be the end of an era".
So I guess your theory of wishful thinking was incorrect. You should maybe catch up on the thread a bit.
It's not a binary world bro.
Don't know. I just read your post about how I was wrong that you were wishful thinking, and then the one about where you wished 80 year old men would stop hoarding machines 
Keep going, though
Quoted from g0nz0:Can you provide links to your example?
http://www.bostonpinball.biz/eBay1116.htm
10 year average for 97 completed sales listings on Ebay for Monster Bash is $5,338.
While eBay is not the only resource for acquiring pinball machines over the past 10 years, it is a good resource for reviewing prices over the years.
And there are plenty of Pinsiders like me that can give you real world data.
Here's mine.
In 2006, I bought a pristine Monster Bash for $3,900. While doing my own research in 2006, I found that MB was selling anywhere from $3,500 - $5,500.
Starting in 2005, I bought many "A" and quite a few "B" Bally/Williams Title in a period of 18 months. Outside of Cactus Canyon and Medieval Madness, not one of them cost more than $4,000. I bought four AFMs during this time. All four were between $1,700-$2,100. I bought a Theatre of Magic for $2K, TAF & TZ for $3K each, IJ for $2,900, multiple CFTBL for $1,500-$1,800. I bought WH2O for $800. LOTR, TSPP and POTC were all NIB for $3,200-$3,500.
If I wanted TOTAN, I could have bought one for $2,500-$2,900 quite easily.
And outside of TOM, none were significantly below typical market costs for 2005-2006. By 2007, most games had increased in price by $200-$500. Some, like MB increased in value by $1,000.
In 2017, the number of "A" Williams worth $10K+ is very, very small. Only MM, CC & MB can even sniff the 5 figure sale price on a regular basis. Most "A" titles from B/W can be found around $5k-$6K in very nice shape. They won't be collector restored quality, but they will be clean, working and very nice cosmetically.
The examples I purchased in 2005-2006, many would be worth $5-$7K based on condition.
And I'm definitely not the exception to the rule for those that started in the early 2000's.
I don't think Pinball is any danger of crashing anytime soon.
There are so many different price tiers for thousands of titles that a collector can easily find a game within a budget. But if a collector wants a hot title or an "A" B/W, then there is a price that will have to be paid to get one. And that price will not necessarily prevent a new collector from joining our Pinball Hobby.
My 0.02.
Marcus
We will have another recession, maybe even a big one, at some point...these things happen and sometimes they are even engineered by Wall Street.
When that happens prices will dip like they did in 2009.
They will then bounce back eventually as overall economy improves.
If you collect truly great games that are in nice shape and do not overpay -- you have nothing to worry about in general.
Quoted from g0nz0:So if I was going to post an "example" of a Troll.. you sir, would fit the bill.
Pezpunk is not trolling. He's asking where the facts are that back up your statements and opinions.
Quoted from g0nz0:1. People in their 20-30 didn't grow up with arcades and pinball?
I would say that was pretty fair to assume.
Then you would assume incorrectly. Lots of areas around the country still had access to arcades and pinball machines throughout the 90s. The arcades in my area sure did. But granted, not all of them survived much into the 2000's.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/neatocoolville/117196950/
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/pictures-of-arcades
http://forums.sega.com/showthread.php?504334-Arcade-nostalgia-pictures-from-the-80-s-and-90-s
Quoted from g0nz0:2. People with sentimental emotions towards an item will pay more than it is worth?
I think that was a fair statement.
Sometimes yes, sometimes no. I have a strong attachment to AFM. It ate a lot of my quarters back in the day, and I still enjoy playing it, but I'm not going to drop $8k on one. Sentimentality doesn't always outweigh common sense and practicality.
Quoted from g0nz0:3. Pinball is slow dying off and even though there are new players joining it isn't enough to ever have it back where it was?
I think most of us agree with that.
Heck no. Location play is bouncing back in the form of barcades. More pinball shows are popping up, and shows have been getting bigger and better every year. We are also seeing an increase in news coverage of barcades, tournaments, shows, and other events.
There are 5 significant manufacturers, while only a few years ago Stern was the last one standing. We haven't had this many new titles in one year in a long time. Pinball hasn't been this strong in a while, and it's on the rise. If it wasn't on the rise, there would be no reason for business owners to invest in pinball manufacturing.
Quoted from g0nz0:4. New players who want to buy a machine probably can't afford one at these current prices?
Hell, I can list you off 100 people I know personally who can't. I'm sure you could also.
I just bought a nice solid state game for $100 a couple days ago. It needs some work, and it's not a coveted A-list title, but you sure can't beat that deal. There are plenty of affordable games out there to fit any budget. You just need to put in some of the leg work to find a bargain.
$400 gold wings: https://pinside.com/pinball/market/classifieds/ad/49145
$450 target alpha: https://pinside.com/pinball/market/classifieds/ad/49127
$700 cybernaut: https://pinside.com/pinball/market/classifieds/ad/49097
$400 alien poker: https://pinside.com/pinball/market/classifieds/ad/49067
$400 pinball pool: https://pinside.com/pinball/market/classifieds/ad/49006
$1000 high speed: https://pinside.com/pinball/market/classifieds/ad/46949
$400 cleopatra: https://pinside.com/pinball/market/classifieds/ad/48806
$300 disco '79 cocktail, ready to play: https://pinside.com/pinball/market/classifieds/ad/48687
$600 Lady Luck: https://pinside.com/pinball/market/classifieds/ad/48410
$1000 playboy, fully working: https://pinside.com/pinball/market/classifieds/ad/48168
$800 future spa, fullly working: https://pinside.com/pinball/market/classifieds/ad/48069
Plus various working or project EM games under $1k.
And these are all available--right now.
Quoted from g0nz0:5. Remakes will hurt the price of the originals
Well, that one is up for debate I guess but right now there are people who own a brand new ATM who didn't buy an older one because the remake was available. So in the end it did in fact hurt the sale of the original.
Maybe there's a small dip in price, but collectors still value an original game. You won't see an $8k game suddenly drop to $3k just because a remake came out. This was already proven with the release of MMr and AFMr.
Recent sold listings for AFM:
https://pinside.com/pinball/market/classifieds/archive?s=1&r&keywords=&ad_machine_key=792&ad_condition=0&machine_type=&ad_machine_manuf=&year_from=&year_to=&radius_distancekm=322&sort_by=ad_end_date&sort_order=DESC#results
And for MM:
https://pinside.com/pinball/market/classifieds/archive?s=1&keywords=&ad_machine_key=869&ad_condition=0&machine_type=&ad_machine_manuf=&year_from=&year_to=&radius_distancekm=322&sort_by=ad_end_date&sort_order=DESC#results
Basically, your opinions are just that--opinions. My experience (and judging from the other comments, the experience of other people too) is the complete opposite from yours. I feel mine are supported by real-world examples and facts that I can back up with proof.
Quoted from chadderack:Don't know. I just read your post about how I was wrong that you were wishful thinking, and then the one about where you wished 80 year old men would stop hoarding machines Keep going, though
So me saying I hope the industry doesn't plummet and hoping to find some cheap machines from someones collection when they die is the same?
And by the laugh, putting a laughing emoticon after your statement doesn't make you seem any smarter when you say something dumb by the way. This isn't a binary world.
Quoted from vid1900:Don't ever get any broads pregnant.
Don't ever get married.
You will have all the cash you need for expensive toys.
Vid you also forgot:
1)Don't EVER buy a boat!
2)don't buy any pets thatyou will spend tens of thousands on as far as medical bills go.
3) stay away from kakaine!!!
4) keep gambling to a minimum
As you already stated. There will be Lots of money in the budget for expensive toys!
Quoted from drsfmd:It's already happened in some sectors of the collector car market. I'm pretty deeply into that hobby as well, and I've watched the prices on brass era cars plummet over the last decade. Why? Because all of the people who may have remembered those cars from their childhood are now gone, and almost no one who isn't already in that segment of the market wants to get into it. A corollary in the pinball hobby would be all of those bingo machines that you can hardly give away these days.
The cars from the 30s and 40s have suffered less in a sense, as there are plenty of hot rodders who are just salivating to buy up those restored cars and destroy them by turning them into whatever monstrosities they build.
Other segments of the old car hobby are still pretty affordable. While the 57 Chevy is the Monster Bash of that hobby, there are many other makes and models of similar vintage that can be acquired for just a few thousand dollars. The cars of the 60s and 70s that weren't muscle cars are downright cheap.
This, I see very nice Bingo Machines go for $100 or less fairly often. Which I can understand (I'm 27). No flippers means me no likey 
Quoted from ForceFlow:Pezpunk is not trolling. He's asking where the facts are that back up your statements and opinions.
Then you would assume incorrectly. Lots of areas around the country still had access to arcades and pinball machines throughout the 90s. The arcades in my area sure did. But granted, not all of them survived much into the 2000's.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/neatocoolville/117196950/
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/pictures-of-arcades
http://forums.sega.com/showthread.php?504334-Arcade-nostalgia-pictures-from-the-80-s-and-90-sSometimes yes, sometimes no. I have a strong attachment to AFM. It ate a lot of my quarters back in the day, and I still enjoy playing it, but I'm not going to drop $8k on one. Sentimentality doesn't always outweigh common sense and practicality.
Heck no. Location play is bouncing back in the form of barcades. More pinball shows are popping up, and shows have been getting bigger and better every year. We are also seeing an increase in news coverage of barcades, tournaments, shows, and other events.
There are 5 significant manufacturers, while only a few years ago Stern was the last one standing. We haven't had this many new titles in one year in a long time. Pinball hasn't been this strong in a while, and it's on the rise. If it wasn't on the rise, there would be no reason for business owners to invest in pinball manufacturing.
https://www.google.com/search?q=barcade&oq=barcade&aqs=chrome..69i57.1128j0j1&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#q=barcade&tbm=nws&tbs=sbd
https://www.google.com/search?q=pinball+tournament&oq=pinball+tournament&aqs=chrome..69i57.2991j0j1&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#tbm=nws&q=pinball+tournament+championshipI just bought a nice solid state game for $100 a couple days ago. It needs some work, and it's not a coveted A-list title, but you sure can't beat that deal. There are plenty of affordable games out there to fit any budget. You just need to put in some of the leg work to find a bargain.
$400 gold wings: https://pinside.com/pinball/market/classifieds/ad/49145
$450 target alpha: https://pinside.com/pinball/market/classifieds/ad/49127
$700 cybernaut: https://pinside.com/pinball/market/classifieds/ad/49097
$400 alien poker: https://pinside.com/pinball/market/classifieds/ad/49067
$400 pinball pool: https://pinside.com/pinball/market/classifieds/ad/49006
$1000 high speed: https://pinside.com/pinball/market/classifieds/ad/46949
$400 cleopatra: https://pinside.com/pinball/market/classifieds/ad/48806
$300 disco '79 cocktail, ready to play: https://pinside.com/pinball/market/classifieds/ad/48687
$600 Lady Luck: https://pinside.com/pinball/market/classifieds/ad/48410
$1000 playboy, fully working: https://pinside.com/pinball/market/classifieds/ad/48168
$800 future spa, fullly working: https://pinside.com/pinball/market/classifieds/ad/48069
Plus various working or project EM games under $1k.
And these are all available--right now.Maybe there's a small dip in price, but collectors still value an original game. You won't see an $8k game suddenly drop to $3k just because a remake came out. This was already proven with the release of MMr and AFMr.
Recent sold listings for AFM:
https://pinside.com/pinball/market/classifieds/archive?s=1&r&keywords=&ad_machine_key=792&ad_condition=0&machine_type=&ad_machine_manuf=&year_from=&year_to=&radius_distancekm=322&sort_by=ad_end_date&sort_order=DESC#results
And for MM:
https://pinside.com/pinball/market/classifieds/archive?s=1&keywords=&ad_machine_key=869&ad_condition=0&machine_type=&ad_machine_manuf=&year_from=&year_to=&radius_distancekm=322&sort_by=ad_end_date&sort_order=DESC#results
Basically, your opinions are just that--opinions. My experience (and judging from the other comments, the experience of other people too) is the complete opposite from yours. I feel mine are supported by real-world examples and facts that I can back up with proof.
I should have put "new machine" when I said that part about not being able to afford one. But I thought everyone here has figured out that I am talking about over priced A titles (since I have stated that a bunch of times now). A lot of people keep saying "well buy an older one" and that isn't what I am discussing. I am discussing the huge price jump in certain titles. We all know there are still cheap pins to be had.
Quoted from g0nz0:And by the laugh, putting a laughing emoticon after your statement doesn't make you seem any smarter when you say something dumb by the way. This isn't a binary world.
And veiled insults aren't smart, either. Carry on.
Quoted from ForceFlow:Sometimes yes, sometimes no. I have a strong attachment to AFM. It ate a lot of my quarters back in the day, and I still enjoy playing it, but I'm not going to drop $8k on one. Sentimentality doesn't always outweigh common sense and practicality.
Would you spend 6500 on a nib though? I feel for 6k or less they would have sold like crazy. Can you still get a players AFM for 6k? Not been following that game.
Quoted from ForceFlow:Heck no. Location play is bouncing back in the form of barcades. More pinball shows are popping up, and shows have been getting bigger and better every year. We are also seeing an increase in news coverage of barcades, tournaments, shows, and other events.
I feel we may be reaching saturation for barcades like we did with sports bars a few years back and that there are too many to survive.
Quoted from chadderack:And veiled insults aren't smart, either. Carry on.
Yeah, I'm sure when you posted that screen cap of me only owning 1 machine (basically stating owning 1 machine doesn't give me the right to have an opinion on the market) wasn't an insult either right?
Carry on.
Quoted from g0nz0:Sorry to break your heart but I am a completely new member. But I am sure if the last person who posted this got personally insulted as much as I have then I can understand it.
I personally wish Pinside had a delete option. I would have removed this post a long time ago and you can bet I have no interest in doing it again. Or if I do I'll make sure it is all unicorns and rainbows to keep everyone from getting out the pitchforks because they disagree. I honestly had no idea that so many of the people here were incapable of a normal discussion.
Some here have been fine. They see my opinion and say "I disagree, this is why". But there sure has been a lot of kindergarden drama where for some reason if someone disagrees that have to "attack me personally" which I find extremely immature.
I even finished the topic off with a "do you agree, or disagree". I only wanted a friendly discussion on what others thought about the future of the market. Boy was I in for a surprise lol.
I took a thumping from many in my early days here...take it all with a grain of salt. I'm not trying to make you feel bad. Just busting your balls, which I actually do with people I like. Which is why I have no friends. Speaking of which...
Quoted from chadderack:And veiled insults aren't smart, either. Carry on.
Chadderack just put me out of business. 
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