(Topic ID: 145723)

Why has no one developed a better way to level a pin?


By cooked71

4 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 60 posts
  • 32 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 years ago by cooked71
  • Topic is favorited by 6 Pinsiders

You

Linked Games

No games have been linked to this topic.

    Topic Gallery

    There have been 6 images uploaded to this topic. (View topic image gallery).

    3775054288_193656767f_o.jpg
    619418-4da919d0-37ed-11e4-a694-451fbd592c5f.jpg
    red-back-spider_465px.jpg
    Bird_Eating_Spider.jpg
    clamps.jpg
    levelers.jpg

    There are 60 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
    #1 4 years ago

    After reconfiguring my games room tonight, I had to also re-level all my games as I had moved machines from one wall to another.

    Another 1/2 hour crouched under the games leveling the legs. Now my back is killing me.

    It's got to be one of the most annoying parts of owning/operating a game, yet leveling is also the most important part of setup. Must be a huge pain for operators.

    Why has no one developed a better leg leveler system? (I know.....cost).

    A simple idea such as having the bolt from the levelers extend all the way up the legs. Then having some sort of screw mechanism where they could be adjusted with an Alan key from the side. Or like a dishwasher that you can adjust all the levels from the front using an Alan key.

    Or having the playfield itself adjustable.

    Has anything new ever been tried?

    #2 4 years ago

    There used to be several ways, including using a drill. Very easy. Wish I could remember more but it's late

    Here it is, sold out for years

    http://bayareaamusements.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=PL-ZIPLEV

    #3 4 years ago

    You shouldn't have to lift anything with your back. You can turn the bolt with a wrench, lifting the machine on its own.
    You turn the bolt downward, closest to the floor, and only spin it backwards, up to the leg, once it's level, then tighten.
    Make sense?

    #4 4 years ago

    Is there a level or Inclinometer that talks, beeps or farts giving you information that you can hear while under the machine?

    #5 4 years ago
    Quoted from pinballdork:

    Is there a level or Inclinometer that talks, beeps or farts giving you information that you can hear while under the machine?

    Pin Guy on iOS. There's a similar app for Android (might also be pin guy or Pinball Leveler, something like that). Tells you "Left 0.3 degrees too high, back 0.4 degrees too low" every few seconds.

    #6 4 years ago

    <blockquote cite="#2828977"Must be a huge pain for operators.

    Yeah, that is top of the to-do list for operators.

    10
    #7 4 years ago
    Quoted from DefaultGen:

    Pin Guy on iOS. There's a similar app for Android (might also be pin guy or Pinball Leveler, something like that). Tells you "Left 0.3 degrees too high, back 0.4 degrees too low" every few seconds.

    Almost cracked my head open when I was using this app, got the machine set perfectly and the app repeatedly told me so and then stated something like: "really, you can crawl out from under the machine now" - laughed so hard, forgot where I was and THUNK!

    Love this app.

    #8 4 years ago

    I'd love to see small electric motors you could quickly secure to each leg that would interface with bolts via gearing. Maybe 20 to 25 per leg. Then Bluetooth control to phone app or direct wire to couple buttons to control them. Nothing ops would buy but I'd invest for small home collection. I hate leveling manually

    #9 4 years ago

    Leveling manually does suck, but I found a way to make it easier so I don't have to use my back or wrenches. I bought a cheap hydraulic table lift from harbor freight and I use that to jack up the machine so no legs are on the ground, and then adjust nice and easy. I use this in combination with pinguy app on iOS to know which ones to adjust.

    Nice thing about the lift is that it makes a great portable service bench that you can move around to each pin to hold all the tools and parts while you work on a machine.

    10
    #10 4 years ago
    Quoted from Chambahz:

    You shouldn't have to lift anything with your back. You can turn the bolt with a wrench, lifting the machine on its own.
    You turn the bolt downward, closest to the floor, and only spin it backwards, up to the leg, once it's level, then tighten.
    Make sense?

    But it's sooo much easier (at least I find it is) to loosen the locking nut (if one is installed) lift the entire machine on your back because it's not that heavy on all fours, and then spin the leveller with just your fingers.

    #11 4 years ago

    MAGIC SLIDERS! Then you can just twist the sliders to adjust each leg, no tools or back strength required.

    #12 4 years ago

    Either you should trade in your back for a stronger one or you could try double nutting the levelor shaft at the top and this will allow you to turn them without lifting the machine.

    #13 4 years ago

    You can use pinball skates as a lever to lift the legs up a bit, adjust, then set them back down. I'm all for a magic system of servos that makes a perfectly level, 6.5 degree playfield, but once adjusted and locked in for home use you don't have to re-adjust too often

    #14 4 years ago

    Get a lift cart from Harbor Freight. I eyeball level when I lower the pin, then I make fine tuned corrections with the assist of my lift cart. Raise just enough to lower or raise castors.

    How do you move your games?

    #15 4 years ago

    I believe Gerry has with the P3, unless I'm mistaken.

    #16 4 years ago

    What I think would be cool (and simple!) is a couple accelerometers (or tilt sensors) on the playfield and a system in the menu that tells you which leg needs to go up or down for level and what your pitch is at. If an iphone can do it, surely a pin can.

    #17 4 years ago

    I just eyeball it when I setup the game, before even putting the legs on. I judge the pitch of the floor visually, and adjust the levelers accordingly. Comes out perfect every time! Duh...

    #18 4 years ago
    Quoted from dsuperbee:

    There used to be several ways, including using a drill. Very easy. Wish I could remember more but it's late
    Here it is, sold out for years
    http://bayareaamusements.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=PL-ZIPLEV

    Thats kind of what I was thinking - but looks like its not available.

    Quoted from pinballdork:

    Is there a level or Inclinometer that talks, beeps or farts giving you information that you can hear while under the machine?

    I use Pin Guy app - invaluable.

    Quoted from JoeGrenuk:

    <blockquote cite="#2828977"Must be a huge pain for operators.
    Yeah, that is top of the to-do list for operators.

    Sarcasm? Sorry. I forgot. Most operators couldn't be bothered levelling their games.

    Quoted from Mbecker:

    I'd love to see small electric motors you could quickly secure to each leg that would interface with bolts via gearing. Maybe 20 to 25 per leg. Then Bluetooth control to phone app or direct wire to couple buttons to control them. Nothing ops would buy but I'd invest for small home collection. I hate leveling manually

    That would be awesome. Id definitely be in for a set.

    Quoted from Toasterdog:

    Get a lift cart from Harbor Freight. I eyeball level when I lower the pin, then I make fine tuned corrections with the assist of my lift cart. Raise just enough to lower or raise castors.
    How do you move your games?

    I have 1/2 my machines at home and 1/2 at work. I have a lifter at work where we have concrete floors and I use that for levelling. At home we have wooden floors which are quite soft. Any type of lifter damages the floors. I have rubber feet under the legs that have felt under them, so I can slide the games to move them.

    Quoted from Chambahz:

    You can turn the bolt with a wrench, lifting the machine on its own.
    You turn the bolt downward, closest to the floor, and only spin it backwards, up to the leg, once it's level, then tighten.

    Quoted from o-din:

    Either you should trade in your back for a stronger one or you could try double nutting the levelor shaft at the top and this will allow you to turn them without lifting the machine.

    Tried this and it works, but my back legs are at absolute max extension, so I have to remove the top nut. (And that's with the long 3" Levelers).

    I still don't think it would be too hard to improve the existing system. Obviously cost is the big issue - but technically it's really simple. I guess if pinball was bigger, there was more volume, and more competition, it would have happened already.

    #19 4 years ago
    Quoted from pinballdork:

    Is there a level or Inclinometer that talks, beeps or farts giving you information that you can hear while under the machine?

    Yes, you can set this one to beep at a preset angle. it works pretty decent & it's small enough to be useful.
    amazon.com link »

    #20 4 years ago
    Quoted from cooked71:

    Have to admit I assumed the nuts were for locking the levellers

    They are. But if you lock two nuts together then you can put a wrench on one and turn the leveler .

    #21 4 years ago
    Quoted from o-din:

    They are. But if you lock two nuts together then you can put a wrench on one and turn the leveler .

    Tried this and it works. But my back legs are at absolute max extension, so I have to remove the top nut. (And that's with the long 3" Levelers). Can you get longer Levelers?

    #22 4 years ago

    The nut(s) goes between the leveler and the leg.

    #23 4 years ago
    Quoted from johninc:

    The nut(s) goes between the leveler and the leg.

    On the back ones yes.

    #24 4 years ago

    there was a dude on RGP developing a leveler that used a drill to raise and lower - looked cool

    #25 4 years ago

    I'd like to see a friendly robit that picks up the game, talks to a phone placed on the pf, adjusts the level just so, then waits for you to adjust the levelers down to the floor before retracting.

    #26 4 years ago
    Quoted from DanQverymuch:

    I'd like to see a friendly robit that picks up the game, talks to a phone placed on the pf, adjusts the level just so, then waits for you to adjust the levelers down to the floor before retracting.

    That's pushing it a bit too far. Really, does the robot need to be friendly?

    #27 4 years ago

    I actually added self leveling mechanisms that are sold for washing machines to some legs...it worked fine, but looked Ugly.

    Not enough of a market to re-engineer.

    In checking, here is something new that I havent seen:

    levelers.jpg

    #28 4 years ago

    I use a flat pry bar under each leg, one at a time, to assist with the weight of the machine. Pry off the ground and spin the leveler in or out by hand easily. Set it back down and check if it's good, pry and adjust again if necessary.

    #29 4 years ago
    Quoted from jkroeck25:

    I use a flat pry bar under each leg, one at a time, to assist with the weight of the machine. Pry off the ground and spin the leveler in or out by hand easily. Set it back down and check if it's good, pry and adjust again if necessary.

    That's a good idea. Going to give that a go.

    #30 4 years ago
    Quoted from OLDPINGUY:

    I actually added self leveling mechanisms that are sold for washing machines to some legs...it worked fine, but looked Ugly.
    Not enough of a market to re-engineer.
    In checking, here is something new that I havent seen:
    levelers.jpg

    That's the kind of thing I was thinking of - but you're 100% right - the market is not big enough. Adapting washing machine Levelers is probably as good as we'll get - same concept bigger market. Having said that, the pinball collector market are more obsessed and have deeper pockets than the average washing machine collector.

    #31 4 years ago
    Quoted from shlockdoc:

    there was a dude on RGP developing a leveler that used a drill to raise and lower - looked cool

    Where is this dude now? Wonder if that's the one from the first link to Marco:

    http://bayareaamusements.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=PL-ZIPLEV

    #32 4 years ago
    Quoted from cooked71:

    That's pushing it a bit too far. Really, does the robot need to be friendly?

    This guy will level your pin for you if you're not too picky.

    clamps.jpg

    #33 4 years ago
    Quoted from cooked71:

    That's pushing it a bit too far. Really, does the robot need to be friendly?

    "Friendly robit" is a Mr. Show reference. Now get off my land!

    #34 4 years ago
    Quoted from OLDPINGUY:

    I actually added self leveling mechanisms that are sold for washing machines to some legs...it worked fine, but looked Ugly.
    Not enough of a market to re-engineer.

    If only there was something everyone would need atleast 4 of ... i'd be a rich man! hmmm brb :p

    edit: I have some nasty old scratched pinball feet at home. Might have to try out an idea.

    #35 4 years ago

    My Craftsman "Smart Tool" level beeps. Most of the newer electronic ones do.

    It levels the incline plus the side to side all in one shot. I always remove the playfield glass and place it directly on the playfield for the ultimate in accuracy.

    #36 4 years ago
    Quoted from DanQverymuch:

    "Friendly robit" is a Mr. Show reference. Now get off my land!

    Mr Show? Never heard of it. You Americans and your 4000 TV channels.

    #37 4 years ago
    Quoted from cooked71:

    You Americans and your 4000 TV channels.

    I get this.

    #38 4 years ago
    Quoted from cooked71:

    Mr Show? Never heard of it. You Americans and your 4000 TV channels.

    Aside from flies as large as cats do you Aussies also have to suffer with no HBO?

    #39 4 years ago

    I get a bunch from my Mate in Cairns, Aurich!

    Bird_Eating_Spider.jpg

    #40 4 years ago
    Quoted from westofrome:

    MAGIC SLIDERS! Then you can just twist the sliders to adjust each leg, no tools or back strength required.

    Yep this is what I do. I use the small units about the size of the feet. Works perfect, especially on carpet

    #41 4 years ago
    Quoted from Aurich:

    Aside from flies as large as cats do you Aussies also have to suffer with no HBO?

    Yes and no. HBO specific shows (ie. game of thones etc) are now on foxtel ( https://www.foxtel.com.au/watch/gameofthrones.html ). Other shows *might* be carried by other streaming services.

    One of the reasons Aussies were the biggest pirates of American TV shows.

    #42 4 years ago
    Quoted from Aurich:

    Aside from flies as large as cats do you Aussies also have to suffer with no HBO?

    No HBO, but Foxtel (our main pay TV provider) gives us some of the bigger shows.

    However, it's possible to use Apple TV with a US account. Until recently, you could also get US Netflix with DNS re-direct. Not sure if it's still possible now NetFlix has set up here.

    #43 4 years ago
    Quoted from OLDPINGUY:

    I get a bunch from my Mate in Cairns, Aurich!

    Bird_Eating_Spider.jpg

    He was in my backyard yesterday

    These are the ones you need to worry about (and they really are in my backyard) Red Backs and Funnel Webs:

    red-back-spider_465px.jpg619418-4da919d0-37ed-11e4-a694-451fbd592c5f.jpg

    Especially when you are leveling your pins, because thats where they hide. And it's why we need a better solution.

    #44 4 years ago
    Quoted from homebrood:

    I just eyeball it when I setup the game, before even putting the legs on. I judge the pitch of the floor visually, and adjust the levelers accordingly. Comes out perfect every time! Duh...

    #45 4 years ago

    Yikes! Move!

    Your Crocs and Snakes are worse

    Flat in Florida...never have to level a pin!
    ...or maybe I just tilt a little.

    #46 4 years ago
    Quoted from cooked71:

    He was in my backyard yesterday
    These are the ones you need to worry about (and they really are in my backyard) Red Backs and Funnel Webs:
    red-back-spider_465px.jpg619418-4da919d0-37ed-11e4-a694-451fbd592c5f.jpg
    Especially when you are leveling your pins, because thats where they hide. And it's why we need a better solution.

    Ohhhh...one of the MANY reasons NOT to live in Australia.

    #47 4 years ago
    Quoted from cooked71:

    He was in my backyard yesterday
    These are the ones you need to worry about (and they really are in my backyard) Red Backs and Funnel Webs:
    red-back-spider_465px.jpg619418-4da919d0-37ed-11e4-a694-451fbd592c5f.jpg
    Especially when you are leveling your pins, because thats where they hide. And it's why we need a better solution.

    Damn, I want to flag those pictures, f—king spiders. What we have now in SoCal are Brown Widows, they came over from Florida, and have apparently been killing off the Black Widows and taking their territory. PITA spiders. Webs are tough as steel too.

    Brown Widow

    If Peter Jackson had wanted to make Shelob the way I would love to have seen her, she would have been smooth, and black, and shiny, with an awesome skull shaped red patch. Your Red Backs and our Black Widows, prime examples.

    #48 4 years ago
    Quoted from cooked71:

    Where is this dude now? Wonder if that's the one from the first link to Marco:
    http://bayareaamusements.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=PL-ZIPLEV

    I looked at that design for a while and looked to see if I can replicate it. Didn't seem much to it on first glance.

    My getto solution is another nut of the same size. This puts an extra spare nut at the top of the threading. Get two spanners and force the two nuts to lock into each other. I couldn't find a locking nut at bunnings so I just used an extra which would do the same job just so I could test it out.

    I used a flexible drill extension plus a socket adaptor.

    http://www.bunnings.com.au/craftright-280mm-flexible-quick-drill-extension-_p6320510

    socket adaptor

    http://www.bunnings.com.au/craftright-3-piece-socket-adaptor-set_p6320452

    add on the socket itself and give it a go.

    The main issue is that the BAA ones use special feet. Stock ones have a square rod base where it goes into the pressed steel footing. The problem here is that normal ones will spin the entire foot if the rod is turned. You can see this happen in my video.

    In my case I have carpet protectors under the feet of all my pins anyway so they just spin in place on plastic so its not an issue.

    So tried it again on feet with the entire pins weight on it. Maybe the double nuts would come undone.

    Nope! Worked like a charm!

    Just need to hunt down some locking nuts now!

    #49 4 years ago
    Quoted from koops:

    I looked at that design for a while and looked to see if I can replicate it. Didn't seem much to it on first glance.
    My getto solution is another nut of the same size. This puts an extra spare nut at the top of the threading. Get two spanners and force the two nuts to lock into each other. I couldn't find a locking nut at bunnings so I just used an extra which would do the same job just so I could test it out.
    I used a flexible drill extension plus a socket adaptor.
    http://www.bunnings.com.au/craftright-280mm-flexible-quick-drill-extension-_p6320510
    socket adaptor
    http://www.bunnings.com.au/craftright-3-piece-socket-adaptor-set_p6320452
    add on the socket itself and give it a go.
    » YouTube video
    The main issue is that the BAA ones use special feet. Stock ones have a square rod base where it goes into the pressed steel footing. The problem here is that normal ones will spin the entire foot if the rod is turned. You can see this happen in my video.
    In my case I have carpet protectors under the feet of all my pins anyway so they just spin in place on plastic so its not an issue.
    So tried it again on feet with the entire pins weight on it. Maybe the double nuts would come undone.
    » YouTube video
    Nope! Worked like a charm!
    Just need to hunt down some locking nuts now!

    Thanks Koops! Off to Bunnings this weekend to test it out.

    #50 4 years ago
    Quoted from Aurich:

    Damn, I want to flag those pictures, f—king spiders. What we have now in SoCal are Brown Widows, they came over from Florida, and have apparently been killing off the Black Widows and taking their territory. PITA spiders. Webs are tough as steel too.
    Brown Widow
    If Peter Jackson had wanted to make Shelob the way I would love to have seen her, she would have been smooth, and black, and shiny, with an awesome skull shaped red patch. Your Red Backs and our Black Widows, prime examples.

    Those Brown Widows look almost the same as Red Backs. Turns out they're the same Family and you guys exported some Brown Widows here also. Thanks!

    http://www.qm.qld.gov.au/Find+out+about/Animals+of+Queensland/Spiders/Modern+Spiders+Infraorder+Araneomorphae/Redback+and+Brown+Widow+spiders#.VmGDLIo8anM

    Promoted items from the Pinside Marketplace
    $ 149.00
    Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
    Sparky Pinball
    From: $ 9.99
    Eproms
    Matt's Basement Arcade
    $ 90.00
    Lighting - Under Cabinet
    Rock Custom Pinball
    From: $ 9.99
    Eproms
    Matt's Basement Arcade
    $ 39.95
    Playfield - Protection
    Little Shop Of Games
    $ 249.00
    Cabinet - Decals
    Mircoplayfields
    From: $ 5,799.00
    Pinball Machine
    Flip N Out Pinball
    $ 22.00
    Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
    ModFather Pinball Mods
    £ 55.00
    Lighting - Led
    PinballToys
    $ 999.00
    Flipper Parts
    Mircoplayfields
    $ 189.99
    Lighting - Led
    PinballBulbs
    $ 199.99
    $ 9.99
    Eproms
    Matt's Basement Arcade
    $ 69.99
    Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
    Lighted Pinball Mods
    $ 12.00
    Cabinet - Other
    Rock Custom Pinball
    $ 25.00
    Hardware
    Tucson Pinball
    $ 149.00
    $ 17.00
    $ 249.99
    Cabinet - Armor And Blades
    Id Rather Play Pinball
    From: $ 99.99
    Cabinet - Other
    Lighted Pinball Mods
    $ 7,999.00
    Pinball Machine
    Nitro Pinball USA
    $ 76.95
    Cabinet - Shooter Rods
    Super Skill Shot Shop
    $ 179.00
    Cabinet - Toppers
    Id Rather Play Pinball
    There are 60 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.

    Hey there! Got a moment?

    Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run thanks to donations from our visitors? Please donate to Pinside, support the site and get anext to your username to show for it! Donate to Pinside