(Topic ID: 173814)

Why doesn't Stern publish full, clear rule set info?

By UNCgump

7 years ago


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  • Latest reply 7 years ago by CrazyLevi
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    #18 7 years ago

    Perhaps outdated tradition (i.e. never did it before - why start now?).

    Given the complexity of modern Stern rulesets and scoring algorithms though, I think it's ludicrous to leave it up to players to figure rules out via trial and error or studying code update ReadMe docs.

    Games are MUCH more enjoyable when you fully understand what gameplay options you have and can make decisions accordingly.

    #21 7 years ago
    Quoted from flynnibus:

    For the same reason a book doesn't give away all its secrets on the inside cover.
    Games are meant to be explored and discovered.

    Disagree as a rule. For some yes. Others would like to know what the hell the rules are at the outset. Why not provide the info and give the customer the choice as to whether they wish to explore or not?

    #30 7 years ago
    Quoted from UNCgump:

    Why doesn't Stern publish full, clear rule set info?

    Stern is in business to sell pinball games. Period.

    My guess is that they have made a business decision that the potential increase in game sales from providing (and updating) detailed rules info is not worth the cost required.

    #33 7 years ago
    Quoted from flynnibus:

    It's not possible to have customer choice because once the info is out... it can't be taken back

    Seriously? You honestly think that this is a concern of Stern's and that's why they don't provide detailed rules info?

    #36 7 years ago
    Quoted from flynnibus:

    No.. I'm jus tad dressing the comment of "just let people chose"... that's a fallacy... once it's out, it's out. You can't selectively release it.
    Even the designers themselves will be coy with answering questions if you just want to have it all dumped out for you... and you are friends! They want to see people learn and discover.

    I don't share your concern. If you don't want the availability of detailed rules information to spoil the fun of exploring the game for you, THEN DON'T READ IT. It really is that simple.

    Applying your logic, my creating a detailed Mustang rules document and sharing it with the pinball community was a disservice to the pinball hobby as it ruined the joy of discovering the game's rules. I contend that the opposite is true as it allowed many players to understand and appreciate features in the game that they might not otherwise ever have become aware of due to their skill level, inability to get past their initial dislike of the theme, unavailability of Premium/LE models near them, etc. In my communications with John Trudeau when I was writing the Mustang rules doc, he never once expressed any concern regarding people not discovering the rules on their own. Rather, he seemed happy that people would now likely play and enjoy Mustang even more.

    Additionally, I've yet to see a single person complain when detailed rules information is available. In my case, 100% of the comments sent to me were expressing thanks for providing them.

    #39 7 years ago
    Quoted from flynnibus:

    The difference is your scenario is a third party who has worked to figure it out and likely isn't 100% coverage, nor is it confirmed as fully accurate, nor does it happen immediately. What is asked here is stern themselves document and publish the full details THEMSELVES and when the product is new.
    You may not want to agree with it... but there is a reason the formula exists and has not gone away in over 30 years of gaming. To do so would devalue the game and its launch. When game makers started doing strategy guides, it was to monetize what was happening via third parties and they could not stop it... so instead they just used their access to one-up the guidemakers and take the money for themselves.
    Are you upset about gift wrap too?? I mean, why hide what the gift is.... wouldn't you be more willing to open it if you knew what it was??

    So did Stern providing rules/strategy info for GoT at its release devalue the game for players?

    I still think (and it's just my opinion) that it comes down to a money issue. If the effort required to provide detailed rules information resulted in a greater profit (i.e. resulted in selling enough additional games) for them, I think they would do it. As it is, Stern apparently doesn't see a value in typically doing so.

    Quoted from flynnibus:

    So did you ask him why he didn't do it himself? Or simply dictate it all to someone to capture?
    Everyone knows the interest is there... they have the knowledge (as does every game maker).... yet they don't do what you are asking. Ever thought there is a reason why hundreds of people across decades... have all come to the same conclusion about the psyche of the players and buyers?

    I did not ask John Trudeau as it would have been beside the point of our communications. What I did ask him was if Stern had any additional Mustang rules information that they could provide me to supplement what my doc contained. He told me that regretfully, Stern can't share this info outside of their organization as it would be a conflict of interest for them and they had already maxed out their hours allotted for the game/code design. He also said that the Stern design teams spend many overtime hours, both at Stern and at home in order to create the best games that they can; each game is a labor of love for them.

    #46 7 years ago
    Quoted from Circus_Animal:

    ... completely useless instruction cards that might as well have been written by a room full of monkeys...

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