(Topic ID: 251236)

Why does IFPA allow preplays in leagues?


By TechnicalSteam

6 days ago



Topic Stats

  • 12 posts
  • 8 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 6 days ago by chuckwurt
  • Topic is favorited by 4 Pinsiders

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    #1 6 days ago

    Last night I got a bit angry at league night. #1 I was playing against 2 individuals that opted for Preplay.
    I suppose it would be fine accept that the scores on these sheets were ridiculously high. There is no
    one present to monitor the games or buddy system or anything in our local league. I've noticed that
    some people use the Preplay scores as a tactic to increase their performance.

    #1. There has to be a more fair and just system to deal with absenteeism in league.

    #2. Players that don't attend should not be eligible for Bonus Points

    #3. Why can't I preplay a Tournament vs League?

    #4. What consequence should places that don't use preplay's correctly.

    Was going to rant on our local pinball league group but I honestly don't know the precise rules that are in place.

    #2 6 days ago

    Preplay is what i would consider qualifying and not what gets submitted to the IFPA. It is usually used for seeding or some other benefit prior to the actual IFPA event.

    Im not sure if my feedback helps as its hard to understand some of the context you’re using. For example, ive never heard the term “preplay” before. I assume that just means submitting qualifying scores for an event that will be held in the future.

    #3 6 days ago
    Quoted from TechnicalSteam:

    There is no one present to monitor the games or buddy system or anything in our local league.

    The league I'm in allows preplays but they have to be done in the presence of another league player. Whether the scores are accurate 100% of the time I have no idea and never made an issue of it. Where I play if someone submits what would be a grand champion score their initials should be on the machine anyway.

    The reason they're allowed in the first place is to allow people to participate in league and if something comes up like work or vacation you can use preplays instead of taking a forfeit.

    #4 6 days ago
    Quoted from VectorGamer:

    The league I'm in allows preplays but they have to be done in the presence of another league player. Whether the scores are accurate 100% of the time I have no idea and never made an issue of it. Where I play if someone submits what would be a grand champion score their initials should be on the machine anyway.
    The reason they're allowed in the first place is to allow people to participate in league and if something comes up like work or vacation you can use preplays instead of taking a forfeit.

    Another Problem with Preplays
    Machines - may not perform the same as when Preplays were completed.
    Example Right Flipper not firing correctly on Day A. but working perfect day b.

    Sems that there should just be some kind of 2 weeks grace period just given to players. They can miss out if they need to without having to use preplays scores.

    #5 6 days ago

    What is your league format? There is a set of selfie league rules within the IFPA book, and as mentioned above these act as qualifiers, but do not actually count towards the tournament games or value.

    If you are playing against a score from yesterday, I agree with you, it isn't right. There is a lot of differences in strategy and mental focus when playing alone, let alone the environmental changes and game setup. And then there are plenty of cheating opportunities.

    Preplay definitely contradicts the spirit of IFPA, which requires head-to-head play for a full value tournament or league.

    I run a league that drops the worst week's score for each player. So if they attend 3 out of 4 weeks, they can still be competitive. It works really well and is a better alternative than allowing players to play independently.

    #6 6 days ago

    You're going to have to explain your league format and how 'preplay' works more clearly

    #7 6 days ago

    This really doesn't sound like it has anything to do with the IFPA. If you've got beef with how the league is run, you need to take it up with the league director.

    #8 6 days ago
    Quoted from TechnicalSteam:

    #1. There has to be a more fair and just system to deal with absenteeism in league

    We get zeros if we are not present for recording our league scores. Pre plays are only used for initial groupings and tie breakers.

    Quoted from TechnicalSteam:

    #2. Players that don't attend should not be eligible for Bonus Points

    Agreed.

    Quoted from TechnicalSteam:

    #3. Why can't I preplay a Tournament vs League?

    I was unaware preplay scores were allowed to be used to actually count in determining TGP. If they aren’t, then there’s your answer. Tournaments want every play to count, so using one score to count multiple times is not allowed.

    #9 6 days ago
    Quoted from TechnicalSteam:

    Another Problem with Preplays
    Machines - may not perform the same as when Preplays were completed.
    Example Right Flipper not firing correctly on Day A. but working perfect day b.

    True.

    I guess you take pinball league pretty seriously then. I just go to drink beer and play pinball.

    #10 6 days ago

    Here is the verbiage from the IFPA that I think would relate to "preplays" . As I mentioned in my first post I've never actually heard the term before but it just sounds like the submission of an unverified selfie score. As mentioned below, they're just used for seeding and possibly some other advantages.

    "Certain formats (Selfie Leagues, TOPS Tournaments, etc) rely on players submitting their own results without the verification of a TD or authorized scorekeeper on site. Any qualifying format that includes “unverified” results where a TD, league official, or authorized scorekeeper is not present to record their score, will not have the qualifying portion included in the TGP calculation. The IFPA will classify these qualifying formats as strictly for seeding purposes, with only the finals format counting towards the TGP calculation."

    Quoted from TechnicalSteam:

    #3. Why can't I preplay a Tournament vs League?

    You can't preplay a tournament because the IFPA requires direct competition with a Tournament Director present. This is the case for a League or Tournament where the games played will actually count towards the submission to the IFPA.

    The IFPA will no longer endorse tournaments that don’t have a DIRECT play component as part of the format. DIRECT play represents multiple players (up to a max of 4) playing against one another on a given game (head-to-head or in a group).

    As someone mentioned, it sounds like you're not happy with the "qualifying" portion of the league and if it doesn't have a TD, league official or authorized scorekeeper present it won't and shouldn't affect the submission to the IFPA.

    Source - https://www.ifpapinball.com/menu/ranking-info/

    #11 6 days ago
    Quoted from zacaj:

    You're going to have to explain your league format and how 'preplay' works more clearly

    Not that I expect you or anyone else to actually go through this, but our SLAP leagues (St. Louis Area Pinball) follow FSPA rules... more or less:

    http://fspazone.org/players-guide/

    #12 6 days ago
    Quoted from TechnicalSteam:

    Last night I got a bit angry at league night. #1 I was playing against 2 individuals that opted for Preplay.

    Use one of your drops. Looks like your league allows 3 preplay rounds or 3 drops out of ten to still qualify for finals.

    In order for the IFPA to recognize this portion of your league, that means every player needs to play at least 50% of this portion, or 4 weeks. They don’t count dropped weeks as part of the league, and neither does your league.

    I don’t understand using preplays though, especially with that many weeks. If they can’t play that week, take a zero and drop it.

    So to answer your question, the IFPA doesn’t allow preplays and since they are only looking at your league for the weeks outside of those 3, preplay or drop weeks, it’s all good.

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