(Topic ID: 182153)

Why do we need to "be nice"?


By markmon

2 years ago



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  • 137 posts
  • 87 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by gmkalos
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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There are 136 posts in this topic. You are on page 3 of 3.
#101 2 years ago
Quoted from markmon:

So this is part of my question also. Sometimes I post on my phone and don't feel like typing a bunch of niceties to get to the point. It's not trying to be mean or anything it's just being brief. But this can seem rude at times. I think it shouldn't be policed.

Terse is never going to get you in trouble. You don't need to give people reach arounds... or stroke someone. Just don't make things personal, don't attack people, don't make unnecessary drama for the lolz

Is the post about the topic or the poster?

These aren't tough evaluations to make or consider.

It's not hard to distinguish between telling someone they are incorrect... and people who run around telling people to stfu or chasing someone around

#102 2 years ago

We either make ourselves happy or miserable.
The amount of work is the same.

#103 2 years ago

I agree with several people above...this is not a difficult concept, and I can't believe there is even a thread about this, let alone some level of "debate" about the meaning or intent. If you have to question what being nice is or means, perhaps you can talk to my 4-year old daughter who already has a decent grasp on the concept (and can also play pins with purpose already).

Quoted from Insane:

I personally have no issues with someone pointing out in a FS thread / ad that the price may be out of line. I think that it does a service especially for the people that may not be totally up on current prices. Maybe a noob that is looking at the ad perhaps to purchase. If you are selling, you can ask anything you want, and the market will eventually dictate if its a good price. Again, my 2 cents. Also there are ways to point out a high price without being a dick.

Almost couldn't disagree more. The problem is that most people that go into someone's FS thread and point out that the asking price isn't "to their liking" do it like a dick, a troll, or say something inappropriate. I've even seen posts in someone's FS thread like "are you serious", "for that junk" and "are you sober asking that price?". Commenting in someone's FS thread about the price could unintentionally (or even worse intentionally) dissuade a potential buyer from purchasing the pin. If somebody needs to move a pin for any reason at all, I'm not getting in the way or preventing them from selling it. I've sold some of my pins for ridiculously low prices, great prices, good prices, average market prices...and even some other pins for retail prices since being involved with LOP. And even that you can't judge, as people do. I had a Viper Night Drivin posted initially at "a retail price", and various people here "commented" on the price. I ended up selling it to a fellow Pinsider below market value, and I actually ate money on the deal. It was more important to me to get that guy his very first game, and give him a good entrance into the hobby and certainly without overpaying. And on top of eating money, I also gave the guy a set of free Convolux to spruce up the game. I've severely overpaid for some pins myself...if it was something I really wanted. Who am I, or anybody else on this site for that matter, to judge what someone else should or is willing to pay for a game? Making a comment in someone's FS thread about price, which is always negatively, also insinuates in some way that the seller is trying to get one over on someone, is a price-gouger or dishonest in some way...and that is almost never the case. Therefore, it is not nice.

I'm all about looking out for one another in this hobby, and I do often with noobs or even long time hobbyists. But I do expect people getting into this hobby to exercise at least some due diligence before spending their hard earned money, and possibly thousands of dollars. The fact that I even kept reading this thread after the first post is actually bewildering to me, given the simplistic subject matter.

Being nice is simple...it's not some difficult, needed-to-be-explained obtuse concept. And if you don't like someone's price on a game be nice...just move on like the rest of us do.

#104 2 years ago
Quoted from Colsond3:

If you have to question what being nice is or means, perhaps you can talk to my 4-year old daughter who already has a decent grasp on the concept

Thank you for this. It's a perfect example. I feel this was insulting and definitely "not nice" but at the same time time have no problem with it and don't feel like the mods should step in. Either you are trying to break the rules here, or perhaps you need to go get advice from your 4 yr old daughter as well

#105 2 years ago

What is the definition of "is"??? Jesus, just do unto others golden frickin rule

#106 2 years ago

This post / reply to Markmon was borderline feeding into negativity and was not so nice, so I removed the text and images. My apologies, because I do like this site very much and want it to be better.

#107 2 years ago
Quoted from stoptap:

I have to be nice because my wife is a teacher and I don't like 'going to sit over there and thinking about what I have done'.

I thought teachers made you keep doing it over til you got it right now that would be nice

#108 2 years ago
Quoted from PopBumperPete:

And yet many of my posts you seem to want to poke, dig or other wise correct me
or have another dig at AA
..or both

Providing an opposing viewpoint on a forum should never be considered by any reasonable person as poking or digging.

That isn't how normal forums which don't have underlying self serving agendas operate.

#109 2 years ago
#110 2 years ago

Ok, I'll bite. I've been a member on different message boards since Snopes was emerging at "alt.folklore.urban". I've seen a lot of boards come and go in that time.

After a board has flourished for a year or two, the old timers have developed a lot of inside jokes *and* they've put up with a lot of new posters showing up and asking the same stupid questions over and over again. Some new posters will come here and feel excluded bc they don't get the references or feel left out. You can't really do anything about those people--it's generally up to them to try to meet people or figure out the jokes. I've had no problems as a new poster feeling welcomed by other Pinsiders or finding the "LIONMAN!" thread to understand the reference.

The responses to threads is the part that Robin is getting at with asking people to be "nice". On a FS thread, if the price is high, someone may respond with "Only stupid noobs would ever spend that much for that title!" Now the OP is mad and noobs start to feel like they can't trust other Pinsiders--both reasons why people would leave. If the response was more along the lines of "Hey, the last 3 sales of this pin were all about $500 less, and they seemed to be in the same condition. What is different with yours?", it still points out that the price looks way too high, but in a much "nicer" way and the discussion that follows (regional pricing variances, modifications, etc) is way more helpful for everyone. Or the OP is pricing way too high, but it's pointed out without insulting anyone else.

On top of that, humor is really challenging because it relies on a shared viewpoint/experience--if I crack a joke about grinders, how many of you would realize that I'm talking about a sandwich, not a tool? In terms of "niceness", Robin would be well within his rights to say "Pinside is what it is and if you don't like it, go elsewhere." I would support him 100% if that's how he felt, even if I didn't agree with how the site operated and ended up leaving. But he's decided that he would like this site to be as inclusive as possible. Inclusive means all genders, all backgrounds, etc. So sometimes when we are posting, we say stuff that seems normal to us, but means something completely different to someone else from a different background. I get that it can be frustrating, confusing or irritating to try to stay on top of everything that bothers different people, and for sure there are some times when people are *looking* to be offended. But the idea of being "nice" starts with treating each other respectfully. I wouldn't walk up to a person I wanted to be friends with and purposely say something I knew would upset them. I take the same approach here.

At work we use the term "collaborative sparring" to refer to the idea that it's ok to disagree but that it needs to be done in a positive manner. That is the tone that I interpret Robin means when he asks us to "be nice". There will always be debates and disagreements, and to be honest, some of those threads are the most entertaining. I think that Robin is asking us to simply approach our discussions from a baseline attitude that we aren't *purposely* trying to make each other angry or upset.

#111 2 years ago
Quoted from dhard:

I thought teachers made you keep doing it over til you got it right now that would be nice

Not any more sadly. Well not unless it is something like cut the grass or paint the fence.

#112 2 years ago

i love the title of this thread.
still see it pop up in "my" topics listing. still catches my eye

#113 2 years ago
Quoted from labnip:

i love the title of this thread.
still see it pop up in "my" topics listing. still catches my eye

Haha I still get a chuckle when I see it pop up too. He should just change the title too "why can't we be a dick to people"

#114 2 years ago
Quoted from Colsond3:

This post / reply to Markmon was borderline feeding into negativity and was not so nice, so I removed the text and images. My apologies, because I do like this site very much and want it to be better.

I know a good Lawyer.

#115 2 years ago

I can't believe I just sat here reading a whole thread on being nice!

I know, I know! That's not very nice!

#116 2 years ago
Quoted from OLDPINGUY:

Anyway, I didnt write it, and I guess you have more insight then all the Gods, Leaders, Prophets, Sages, and Wise man then ever lived!

Down voted for using a straw-man logical fallacy. JDD never made that claim, and the commonly accepted version of the golden rule is just as inferior to treating someone as they wish to be treated no matter who wrote it.

#117 2 years ago
Quoted from Colsond3:

Commenting in someone's FS thread about the price could unintentionally (or even worse intentionally) dissuade a potential buyer from purchasing the pin. If somebody needs to move a pin for any reason at all, I'm not getting in the way or preventing them from selling it. I've sold some of my pins for ridiculously low prices, great prices, good prices, average market prices...and even some other pins for retail prices since being involved with LOP. And even that you can't judge, as people do. I had a Viper Night Drivin posted initially at "a retail price", and various people here "commented" on the price. I ended up selling it to a fellow Pinsider below market value, and I actually ate money on the deal. It was more important to me to get that guy his very first game, and give him a good entrance into the hobby and certainly without overpaying. And on top of eating money, I also gave the guy a set of free Convolux to spruce up the game. I've severely overpaid for some pins myself...if it was something I really wanted. Who am I, or anybody else on this site for that matter, to judge what someone else should or is willing to pay for a game? Making a comment in someone's FS thread about price, which is always negatively, also insinuates in some way that the seller is trying to get one over on someone, is a price-gouger or dishonest in some way...and that is almost never the case. Therefore, it is not nice.

The market decides what something is worth. Buyers and sellers are the market. Offering an opinion on the value of something adds information, benefiting the market. The more people that comment on a price the better. Dissuading a potential buyer from purchasing an overpriced item is a great outcome.

#118 2 years ago
Quoted from markmon:

I'm not trying to troll here. And I know this is Robin's forum and he can do what he wants. But this is a serious question. Why is "be nice" even a rule? How is not being nice policed? What constitutes being nice or not being nice? The concept of "be nice" is so so subjective and not specific. I can understand rules like no name calling or no swearing. These are specific behaviors that you can immediately police and there are no questions about when these need policing. But "be nice" just is impossible to properly police.
For example, what if someone posts incorrect information? On one hand it's a disservice to the community to not correct this. On the other hand it is not "being nice" to correct this. And if you're going to correct a fact that's wrong you shouldn't have to tip toe around in an apologetic manner in doing so.
What if you disagree with someone? Debates, even respectful ones, can feel not nice to the person losing. Are we also banning all debates?
Its not being nice to stern or such to complain about prices or code. Is that out now? Should it even be?
I'd propose that "be nice" shouldn't even be a rule. Perhaps some specific rules that are black and white and clear should replace something so ambiguous as "be nice".
Just my thoughts

Sounds to me like your trying to figure out which limits on "nice" can be pushed. RGP doesn't have this rule. It's full of the type of guys that b@tch about not being able to go into someone's house party and pee in a potted plant. You don't need a remedial help program to type polite sentences. If you don't get it, you probably belong over there. They have an alumni support group for those kicked off pinside and by "alumni support group" I mean forum Dou$hebags.

#119 2 years ago
Quoted from YeOldPinPlayer:

The market decides what something is worth.

Or someone can use Mr. Pinball Price Guide, Boston Pinball or www.pinballprice.com. Personally, I just try to be nice like this thread suggests. If I see an ad in the marketplace, or jump into someone's FS thread and the game is way overpriced, I just mutter "eh" to myself and move on. I don't really feel the need to post "Is the cabinet filled with gold bricks also?", like I've seen before.

I never like seeing someone get "taken" either, and I'm not talking about Liam Neeson's daughter. Your opinion is well-acknowledged, read and appreciated. Thank you for posting it.

#120 2 years ago
Quoted from markmon:

or perhaps you need to go get advice from your 4 yr old daughter as well

And by the way, my daughter gives excellent advice...very simplistic and rational. I seek it from her daily. Just two months ago she explained how to more easily shoot the VUK off the left flipper to start multiball on BF to me.

Issy BF (resized).JPG

#121 2 years ago
Quoted from YeOldPinPlayer:

The market decides what something is worth. Buyers and sellers are the market. Offering an opinion on the value of something adds information, benefiting the market. The more people that comment on a price the better. Dissuading a potential buyer from purchasing an overpriced item is a great outcome.

I suppose it's not always easy to say something is overpriced (or completely inaccurate) in a nice way.
But it can always be done in a civil way.
And there is no need to repeat it multiple times (far more useful to see 10 different pinsiders posting something is overpriced, than the same pinsider posting 10 times the same comment...).

#122 2 years ago
Quoted from jlm33:

I suppose it's not always easy to say something is overpriced (or completely inaccurate) in a nice way.
But it can always be done in a civil way.
And there is no need to repeat it multiple times (far more useful to see 10 different pinsiders posting something is overpriced, than the same pinsider posting 10 times the same comment...).

This is actually not directed just to you...Just on the same subject...

I'm another person that doesn't really understand the price policing and buy into the reasons, maybe I'm looking at it all wrong. Are these same people that do this, also giving people more money for their under priced games? I wonder...If they are buying a game a few hundred under priced if they say "oh wait, I can't do that. I have to give you more." Or are they in the threads of under priced games telling the op they are too low on price? I haven't seen any yet, but I'm still kind of new to this and watching prices.

I see, in a way where both sides are on this but..Just seems like an excuse to me in a lot of these threads.

I'm not much for rules. And I'm not saying it should be in the "Be nice" rule. But I really can't understand some of the posts that go on some of the for sale threads. I'm hardly ever even serious about anything. Who cares if someone wants to overpay for a game, or if someone asks too much. These are toys. And obviously anyone buying one is an adult and should check into something before throwing down that type of cash. I've way over paid on a few things. That's my fault! And a couple of them I would have over paid anyhow because I wanted them! I don't need people to watch out how I spend my play money when buying a toy.

#123 2 years ago
Quoted from YeOldPinPlayer:

Down voted for using a straw-man logical fallacy. JDD never made that claim, and the commonly accepted version of the golden rule is just as inferior to treating someone as they wish to be treated no matter who wrote it.

Explain, Please....JDD? Not familiar.

I stand corrected.

2 weeks later
#124 2 years ago
Quoted from Hawkeyepin:

Sounds to me like your trying to figure out which limits on "nice" can be pushed. RGP doesn't have this rule. It's full of the type of guys that b@tch about not being able to go into someone's house party and pee in a potted plant. You don't need a remedial help program to type polite sentences. If you don't get it, you probably belong over there. They have an alumni support group for those kicked off pinside and by "alumni support group" I mean forum Dou$hebags.

Really? So do you consider these sentences you typed to be polite? Suggesting I should go join a douche bag group?

#125 2 years ago

OP, it means that people have different personal wants, the forum is a personal possession, and so the personal wants of the atmosphere/environment will be enforced.

Think of it like this... If you argued this into infinity, would it ever make rational or reasonable sense? No, of course not, because it's not rational or reasonable to begin with; it's a want.

In personal example, we have someone at my work who is responsible for creating, modifying, and updating procedures. The person releases a revision that makes no sense to any of the coworkers and we spend like two months (this has happened like 5 times in past couple of years) talking about it for like half an hour each day, going through the logic and rationale. So, what stopped It? Eventually, the boss asked if everyone understood it one day and if it made sense, same as he did every other day for two months, and I had had enough of the pointless discussions and said, "Look, how bout we say this: no we don't understand, no it doesn't make any sense, but we're going to do it anyways because that's our job and we have to." Everyone laughed, boss stared (has same mentality as the procedure person), and then we never talked about it again.

People can use logic, reason, rationale, etc. to try and make it seem like there's some grand reason to something, but at the end of the day, a lot of times it is simply an emotional, not a logical, decision and so it is impossible to ever come to a reasonable conclusion, and all the supposed logic, reason, rationale, etc. are really just masked rationalization (rationalization is emotional self-defense mechanism) which includes "being logical" as part of the rationalization for something that really would be better of just saying "because I want to." After all, it does belong to someone, so it's their right to be able to do as they want.

2 weeks later
-1
#126 2 years ago
Quoted from OLDPINGUY:

Certainly you have the right to your opinion, but if I may.
I want to be treated with Flowers, steaks, and unlimited Alcohol. Im not sure how many people are lining up to treat
me the way I WANT to be treated.
Anyway, I didnt write it, and I guess you have more insight then all the Gods, Leaders, Prophets, Sages, and Wise man
then ever lived!
Please do write a book, I am your first customer!

So when you offer the cooked steak on a plate and hold it under the nose of a lifelong vegitarian,
They may not think the gesture is nice, and it is certainly not the way they would choose to be treated.

Being "nice" is complicated

-1
#127 2 years ago

I only trust cynical humorous people, if you want to act like a fake hippty-hopptious tardo your whole life and bray it up with the rest of the sheep be my guest! But it only shows me how insane most people are these days! FACE IT ONE DAY YOUR GONNA BE IN A PINE BOX ITS NOT THAT SUBLIME PEOPLE! Now just live your frackin' lives the way it feels right for you forget what the masses think who the frak cares!

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#128 2 years ago

And that's the other thing if you act like a fake bi-polar person all your life how do you ever expect to make any real connections with people, memories that matter! Your whole life will be wasted as a "salesman" who could never sell the real you to anybody? Getting ahead in life at the expense of other people is criminal, thinking your more special than anybody else is delusional and not being true to yourself is irrational!

tumblr_m9ztlqrZaa1qzzpmqo1_500 (resized).png

#129 2 years ago

This whole Moderator system is flawed but I guess has to work for now, at least you guys aren't editing peoples posts like on the HeMan.org group blasphemy! But I had a simple thread I started a while ago get out of control defending myself against a slew of people with it going on way too long before a mod locked it up...then another mod unlocked it just so he could leave a final comment a long moronic summary of the entire topic? How is that fair? There's defiantly a classicist underlining here on who's got the money, friends and connections...It always boils down to money and integrity eventually.

28781715a5af63d9fd4506bbb59641af (resized).jpg

-2
#130 2 years ago

Just look at down voting how is that nice, how does that make anybody "feel good"?

thanks for downvoting me for just speaking my mind...pezpunk,

#131 2 years ago
Quoted from gmkalos:

Just look at down voting how is that nice, how does that make anybody "feel good"?
thanks for downvoting me for just speaking my mind...pezpunk,

You're welcome.

#132 2 years ago
Quoted from pezpunk:

You're welcome.

your definitely not Riker dude more like a Ferengi lol

TNGCaption153d (resized).jpg

#133 2 years ago

...this may be the right time to bring up Caligula huh, everybody can contribute...don't let this get to the seedy basement forum lol

[Image removed]

#134 2 years ago
Quoted from markmon:

I'm not trying to troll here. And I know this is Robin's forum and he can do what he wants. But this is a serious question. Why is "be nice" even a rule? How is not being nice policed? What constitutes being nice or not being nice? The concept of "be nice" is so so subjective and not specific. I can understand rules like no name calling or no swearing. These are specific behaviors that you can immediately police and there are no questions about when these need policing. But "be nice" just is impossible to properly police.
For example, what if someone posts incorrect information? On one hand it's a disservice to the community to not correct this. On the other hand it is not "being nice" to correct this. And if you're going to correct a fact that's wrong you shouldn't have to tip toe around in an apologetic manner in doing so.
What if you disagree with someone? Debates, even respectful ones, can feel not nice to the person losing. Are we also banning all debates?
Its not being nice to stern or such to complain about prices or code. Is that out now? Should it even be?
I'd propose that "be nice" shouldn't even be a rule. Perhaps some specific rules that are black and white and clear should replace something so ambiguous as "be nice".
Just my thoughts

I think You may be one of the only vendors that posts stupid crap.

#135 2 years ago
Quoted from gmkalos:

Just look at down voting how is that nice, how does that make anybody "feel good"?
thanks for downvoting me for just speaking my mind...pezpunk,

You realize you're ranting to yourself, right?

#136 2 years ago
Quoted from cody_chunn:

You realize you're ranting to yourself, right?

Oh am I, I didn't know I had 2 accounts? Hey self make yourself useful and get me a cold one lol

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