(Topic ID: 182153)

Why do we need to "be nice"?


By markmon

2 years ago



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  • 137 posts
  • 87 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by gmkalos
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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There are 136 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 3.
-22
#1 2 years ago

I'm not trying to troll here. And I know this is Robin's forum and he can do what he wants. But this is a serious question. Why is "be nice" even a rule? How is not being nice policed? What constitutes being nice or not being nice? The concept of "be nice" is so so subjective and not specific. I can understand rules like no name calling or no swearing. These are specific behaviors that you can immediately police and there are no questions about when these need policing. But "be nice" just is impossible to properly police.

For example, what if someone posts incorrect information? On one hand it's a disservice to the community to not correct this. On the other hand it is not "being nice" to correct this. And if you're going to correct a fact that's wrong you shouldn't have to tip toe around in an apologetic manner in doing so.

What if you disagree with someone? Debates, even respectful ones, can feel not nice to the person losing. Are we also banning all debates?

Its not being nice to stern or such to complain about prices or code. Is that out now? Should it even be?

I'd propose that "be nice" shouldn't even be a rule. Perhaps some specific rules that are black and white and clear should replace something so ambiguous as "be nice".

Just my thoughts

#2 2 years ago

Can't you just be nice about it

42
#3 2 years ago

Be nice = treat others as you would want to be treated.
The examples you have used to illustrate not being nice are not really on the money.
Correcting someone is not "not being nice". Correcting someone then calling them a moron is not nice.

69
#4 2 years ago
Be nice = Don't be a dickIt means "Don't be a dick" (but I didn't think that to be appropriate for an official notification message). Don't say things that you wouldn't say to someone in person.

Did you read the accompanying text for this rule?

Be nice: “We expect everyone who participates on Pinside to be welcoming, friendly, and respectful on the forum. It's as simple as using common social sense and acting as if you're interacting with another Pinsider face-to-face.”

21
#5 2 years ago
Quoted from markmon:

Why is "be nice" even a rule? How is not being nice policed? What constitutes being nice or not being nice? The concept of "be nice" is so so subjective and not specific.

Pinside rule #1: Be nice!
We expect everyone who participates on Pinside to be welcoming, friendly, and respectful on the forum. It's as simple as using common social sense and acting as if you're interacting with another Pinsider face-to-face.

It's either keep things civil or let it turn into a wretched hive of scum and villainy

But basically, it amounts to the Golden Rule and exercising some common decency.

Quoted from markmon:

For example, what if someone posts incorrect information? On one hand it's a disservice to the community to not correct this. On the other hand it is not "being nice" to correct this. And if you're going to correct a fact that's wrong you shouldn't have to tip toe around in an apologetic manner in doing so.

This doesn't fall under the "Be Nice" rule. In any case, most people try to be helpful and post what they think is the correct information. Obviously, some of that information is not always entirely correct. So, someone who does know the correct information usually steps in. Or, if there is a debate on a topic of what the correct information actually is, there is a discussion, and those interested usually take it a step further and do some research on the topic, then present their findings.

It is rare that someone actually posts misinformation intentionally just to be malicious or to trick someone. Most of the time, people are honest about posting information. I don't think I've ever seen misinformation intentionally posted in any of the tech forums.

Quoted from markmon:

What if you disagree with someone? Debates, even respectful ones, can feel not nice to the person losing. Are we also banning all debates?

Of course not. Debates are fine. Heated discussions can be ok too, so long as it doesn't start to get personal or nasty. However, when one person starts slinging mud, everyone else usually ends up getting muddy too if it continues.

Quoted from markmon:

Its not being nice to stern or such to complain about prices or code. Is that out now? Should it even be?

People have legitimate criticisms about games and manufactures all the time. People are still free to discuss and share their opinions. But again, if it starts getting too personal or nasty, then it will be addressed in order to keep things civil.

Quoted from markmon:

I'd propose that "be nice" shouldn't even be a rule. Perhaps some specific rules that are black and white and clear should replace something so ambiguous as "be nice".

Unfortunately, not every situation fits in to neat and tidy little boxes. We can't have a rule for every specific or minute instance, or even foresee every kind of situation that might arise. These rules allow some flexibility and leeway for both members (if they start coloring outside the lines) as well as moderators (if a situation doesn't fit neatly inside an established rule). This is usually where cries of moderation bias, unbalanced/unfair moderation practices arise, but honestly, the moderators are not out to get you. If everyone more or less gets along, it makes our jobs easier, and we can just enjoy the site just like the rest of you. We're just tasked to help keep the peace and to try to let everyone enjoy the site and the discussions that they participate in.

Obviously, pinball is very near and dear to many of you--and it's no different for the moderators. We wouldn't volunteer our time to help maintain the site if we didn't care a lot about pinball and the people who are in the community along side us.

#7 2 years ago

Apparently... I was reported for saying "Why cant we just get the F**K along. French words are about expressing getting along!

#8 2 years ago
Quoted from markmon:

I'm not trying to troll here.

Well you are being a troll Markmon and I suggest you write a 1000 word essay on the following subject as your punishment:
Why do we need to "be nice"?

#9 2 years ago

There are advantages to taking the time to properly word your comments to be non-offensive . Pinside and RGP have seen many flamefests start and escalate to point that people leave the hobby . That's why lots enthusiast's " lurk " rather than contribute to the knowledge base . This certainly extends to all the discussion groups I follow ( your pick , cars , sports , archery , whatever floats your boat ) so not a Pinside issue . A " dicks " request for tech info or some kind of buy / sell inquiry may well go unanswered . I for one do not deal with difficult people , your outlook maybe different . If only in your self interest why not act as a civil member of the community ? Enjoy your day . Shane

#10 2 years ago

It is a very simple rule,if you don't agree,build your own forum

#11 2 years ago

People just need to relax, the world is a messed up place. The arguments we have on pinside should be funny even if a person uses a finger or a F**K.

#12 2 years ago
Quoted from robin:

Be nice = Don't be a dick

Amen. It really bothers me to see some of the comments out there... so much so, I walked away from the hobby altogether. I just did not want to be part of this community and did not go to Expo either (after 7 years straight going). Slowly getiting back into it again.

faz

#13 2 years ago

I agree. I'm a fairly foul talking person and think the world is to sensitive but when you get on something like a forum and people are just bashing things,commenting just for the sake to start something or being a troll it just gets tiring! You just wanted to ask a question or post your pin for sale and you end up spending half your day defending your post because someone can so easily sit behind their computer and start s@&$ with you for no reason except for their own satisfaction. So I truly do think it hinders a lot of people from posting!
P.S. I think debates are great. It's a great way to come to a more solid conclusion on a matter but there are tasteful ways to express the facts or opinion with out belittling someone or flat out telling them their stupid! (Even though some people may need to be made aware that in fact... they are stupid!)

#14 2 years ago

When I thought about this, it came to me that I took the plunge into this hobby because I saw this rule in action on pinside. It says, "you are not alone in this, we're here to help." Courtesy, or niceness, keeps the focus on being helpful and productive in the ups and downs of pinball ownership, restoration and repair. A lack of courtesy puts the focus on the person, which doesn't serve the hobby, and only serves the ego.

#15 2 years ago
Quoted from robin:

Be nice = Don't be a dickIt means "Don't be a dick" (but I didn't think that to be appropriate for an official notification message). Don't say things that you wouldn't say to someone in person.
Did you read the accompanying text for this rule?
Be nice: “We expect everyone who participates on Pinside to be welcoming, friendly, and respectful on the forum. It's as simple as using common social sense and acting as if you're interacting with another Pinsider face-to-face.”

This should apply to ALL posters in EVERY thread except the basement.

Over the years, I've watched some people get swatted by the moderators while others continually get a pass. If you want people to act with civility, it needs to be controlled by the moderators without exception if someone posts something dickish. I've even seen this in FS threads and watch it go on and on. Moderators are supposed to moderate. It's more than a title, it's a responsibility when accepting the title.

With all due respect, this rule should even apply to people speaking about Kaneda. He's been banned for a year while others still lash out with contempt against him DAILY. Why? People wanted him gone and he's gone, yet their crap continues and it seems to be the same group of people who LIVE on this site. Doesn't that aid the aura of a negative attitude on Pinside? Are those people being dicks or do they continue to get a pass? And before I get donvoted to the depths of Pinside hell for bringing Kaneda up, I've never spoken with him, met him, emailed him or PMd him.

I'm just providing my opinion as to what I've seen on this site, but, hey, your forum your rules.

#16 2 years ago

Like others have stated, it's not a really difficult rule. You can disagree without being a D about it. You can have good discussions without personally attacking others. Maybe rule #1 should be "act like a mature adult"

#17 2 years ago

Wheaton's Law (resized).jpg

#18 2 years ago

Sorry, but I had to look it up haha
http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/wheatons-law

#19 2 years ago

Will be great to see the OP jump back in...will go a long way to show that the post really was a genuine thought he had as opposed to stirring the pot and staning back to watch!

Quoted from markmon:

I'd propose that "be nice" shouldn't even be a rule

I found this to be interesting. It's something you wouldn't "think" should be a rule. But we also shouldn't need to put "contents may be hot" on coffee cups. Sometimes the obvious needs to be stated.

Quoted from markmon:

For example, what if someone posts incorrect information? On one hand it's a disservice to the community to not correct this. On the other hand it is not "being nice" to correct this. And if you're going to correct a fact that's wrong you shouldn't have to tip toe around in an apologetic manner in doing so.

Here is something that's pretty simple to address. If someone points out information that's incorrect, you can correct it. And it's possible to do it while being nice. Generally if you don't include "you're a a$$hat" as part of that correction, it will actually come off as nice.

I think the whole point is reminding people to be people and show common courtesy. And it's by far a small minority. But unfortunately that minority makes up the majority of the noise. A busy gas station with hundreds of vehicles passing through every hour only needs one guy to flick a cigarette butt....

#20 2 years ago

I normally cuss like a sailor, Canadian tv even allows the "F" word in prime time broadcasts, but when posting on an international forum I can usually calm down my language to a level of common curtesy. It shouldn't be difficult to interact kindly with other people.

If you find it hard to be nice to others, then you personally have a problem and you should reconsider how you live your life.
When you become elderly and bitter no one will want to share their time with you. Instead of dying alone and hating the world you could try to be nice and embrace the others around you.

#21 2 years ago

Because a lot of people out there seem incapable of common decency on their own, whether they don't know better or are choosing to be so - doesn't matter. They can't act right so they need to be told. If we are all jerks, pinside sucks. The whole thing about one rotten apple.. is true.

#22 2 years ago

Anyone else find irony in the fact that he is actually a dick... Richard William Wheaton III

Big fan of his audible books btw...

#23 2 years ago

My 2 cents. It is the "Golden Rule" as was stated above. Treat others as you wish to be treated. Also maybe before you hit the post button, double check what you wrote to try to make sure it doesn't sound "dickish". Remember, its hard to inflect tone into something that is written. Its hard for people to get sarcasm etc.

#24 2 years ago
Quoted from ForceFlow:

People have legitimate criticisms about games and manufactures all the time. People are still free to discuss and share their opinions.

I've been "moderated" here exactly one time so I can attest that what is said right here is an evolution of the rules here on Pinside, for the better IMHO. When I was called out (by a very nice and friendly moderator I might add) it was stated that the forum owners did not want criticism of anyone that was trying to bring new product to the pinball market, and if you wanted to do that you should go to another forum to do so. As it turned out the community learned the hard way that not every person or company collecting money to produce something new was worthy of those dollars and in some cases folks lost money on these endeavors. You can view pinball through rose-colored glasses and want to keep everything positive and friendly, but the problem with that is once money starts being exchanged (especially money for a product that is not currently ready to ship, IE, the deadly "pre-order" system) there should be much scrutiny of those individuals. There is no way to know but presumably when some of these Titanics sank there were some folks that might have had money on those deals that were scared off by critical comments or unanswered questions here. Cheerleaders serve a legitimate purpose, but there should always be a counterbalance as well. If not this basically becomes (mfg name withheld)' Facebook presence...

#26 2 years ago
Quoted from pinball_faz:

Amen. It really bothers me to see some of the comments out there... so much so, I walked away from the hobby altogether. I just did not want to be part of this community and did not go to Expo either (after 7 years straight going). Slowly getiting back into it again.
faz

Don't worry...hang around here long enough and you'll leave again.

Quoted from robin:

Be nice = Don't be a dickIt means "Don't be a dick"

Reported to the moderation team for inappropriate language. Keep it in the basement, buddy.

#27 2 years ago
Quoted from viper001:

Cheerleaders serve a legitimate purpose, but there should always be a counterbalance as well. If not this basically becomes (mfg name withheld)' Facebook presence...

There is indeed a flip side to every coin and if I was having a "In Love,Blind Eye" moment I would want someone to voice their knowledge and opinion before I am throwing down my 70hr a week hard earned money. Knowledge is power.
-Mike

#28 2 years ago

dick (resized).jpg

#29 2 years ago
Quoted from markmon:

How is not being nice policed? What constitutes being nice or not being nice? The concept of "be nice" is so so subjective and not specific.

It's like porn you know it when you see it

#30 2 years ago
Quoted from markmon:

I'm not trying to troll here. And I know this is Robin's forum and he can do what he wants. But this is a serious question. Why is "be nice" even a rule? How is not being nice policed? What constitutes being nice or not being nice? The concept of "be nice" is so so subjective and not specific. I can understand rules like no name calling or no swearing. These are specific behaviors that you can immediately police and there are no questions about when these need policing. But "be nice" just is impossible to properly police.
For example, what if someone posts incorrect information? On one hand it's a disservice to the community to not correct this. On the other hand it is not "being nice" to correct this. And if you're going to correct a fact that's wrong you shouldn't have to tip toe around in an apologetic manner in doing so.
What if you disagree with someone? Debates, even respectful ones, can feel not nice to the person losing. Are we also banning all debates?
Its not being nice to stern or such to complain about prices or code. Is that out now? Should it even be?
I'd propose that "be nice" shouldn't even be a rule. Perhaps some specific rules that are black and white and clear should replace something so ambiguous as "be nice".
Just my thoughts

It's nice to be nice to the nice.

#31 2 years ago

The Golden Rule, in both Positive and Negative form..."Do unto others...." or "Dont do, unto others that which you would not want done to you" is a tenant and core philosophical approach to life, written by the wisest of people, across all cultures, faiths, and time periods...at least back 2500 years in Western culture, and likely 10,000 plus years in the East.

I value the thousands of generations before me, that left this one message as the core to humanities existence
in relation to creating a Civil society, regardless of perspectives.

Simply put, it seems to be humankind Best Advice passed on from Generation to Generation, and for me, personally,
the only way to go through life.

Doesnt mean one cant throw it out the window, but does that make this "New" direction wise? or never tried before?

Wisdom.

#32 2 years ago

Very simple, treat people the same way you would like you and your family to be treated by others

#33 2 years ago

Can you imagine if the bouncers in Road House had gotten this particular about this when Dalton explained his 3 rules to them? We wouldn't have even had a movie, and a really great 80s cult classic at that... (/)_-)

#34 2 years ago

Because our mothers would be ashamed of how we behave.

#35 2 years ago
Quoted from markmon:

The concept of "be nice" is so so subjective and not specific.

They are intentionally non-specific to prevent parsing arguments. As an example.

Rule: Don't go left.
Parsed: You didn't say anything about 3 rights, which equal a left, therefore I can go left.
Rule: Don't go left, and don't take 3 rights.
Parsed: You didn't say I couldn't take 2 lefts and a right, therefore I can go left.
Result: On and on with more specific rules until implosion of the person trying to keep things ruled.

It is an irritating way to do things. I've been around lots of people that try it, and it always ends up being a mess for everyone involved except for the person doing it. On it's face it is being a dick, but it is always presented that "you didn't way I couldn't do it this way". On the other hand the wider net of non-specificity tends to be harder to parse apart.

16
#36 2 years ago

Why be an asshole?

Seriously, some people seem to go out of there way and are only happy when they can poke, dig or otherwise put down others members

#37 2 years ago
Quoted from Beebl:

Anyone else find irony in the fact that he is actually a dick... Richard William Wheaton III
Big fan of his audible books btw...

Yeah, that guy is world class trash. He doesn't deserve to have a "law" named after him.

#38 2 years ago
Quoted from OLDPINGUY:

The Golden Rule, in both Positive and Negative form..."Do unto others...." or "Dont do, unto others that which you would not want done to you" is a tenant and core philosophical approach to life, written by the wisest of people, across all cultures, faiths, and time periods...at least back 2500 years in Western culture, and likely 10,000 plus years in the East.
I value the thousands of generations before me, that left this one message as the core to humanities existence
in relation to creating a Civil society, regardless of perspectives.

I like the original intent of the Golden Rule, but I don't know if "Do unto others..." always works? What about people who want or don't care if they're treated badly?

"I don't mind being punched in the d!ck, so I'm going to punch as many people in the d!ck as I feel like."

"I don't care if people stop for me if I'm in the cross-walk, so I'm not going to stop for others who are crossing the street."

#39 2 years ago

Pinside needs a catch-all rule like "Be Nice", or you end up with A-Holes looking for Loop-Holes!

#40 2 years ago
Quoted from guyincognito:

I like the original intent of the Golden Rule, but I don't know if "Do unto others..." always works? What about people who want or don't care if they're treated badly?

You have a point - some Pinsiders have a thicker skin, don't mind being called names and won't be the last to use the same words!
It's all about context. And we have different standards about what we consider insulting or not...

#41 2 years ago

Perhaps you are having trouble defining "nice". Try the same imperative but with "mean" or "harmful", and DON'T do those things.

#42 2 years ago

Weird how this is so confusing for some. If you don't have anything good or nice to say, then shut the fu@$ up. Seems as simple as breathing to me.

#43 2 years ago
Quoted from Buzz:

If you don't have anything good or nice to say, then shut the fu@$ up.

Well, that wasn't very nice.

#44 2 years ago
Quoted from beelzeboob:

Well, that wasn't very nice.

And you...stop sticking your tongue out at everyone!

#45 2 years ago

I don't often down vote but I sure will

Any post starting with not trying to be a troll is exactly what it is, a troll post.

I bet you just made the list and myself as well.

#46 2 years ago

Follow my own advice??? That sounds stupid. Humor doesn't text well. People should be nicer though.

#47 2 years ago

How much humor am I allowed to find in the fact that his (Wil Wheaton) real first name is Richard?

#48 2 years ago
Quoted from markmon:

I'm not trying to troll here. And I know this is Robin's forum and he can do what he wants. But this is a serious question. Why is "be nice" even a rule? How is not being nice policed? What constitutes being nice or not being nice? The concept of "be nice" is so so subjective and not specific. I can understand rules like no name calling or no swearing. These are specific behaviors that you can immediately police and there are no questions about when these need policing. But "be nice" just is impossible to properly police.
For example, what if someone posts incorrect information? On one hand it's a disservice to the community to not correct this. On the other hand it is not "being nice" to correct this. And if you're going to correct a fact that's wrong you shouldn't have to tip toe around in an apologetic manner in doing so.
What if you disagree with someone? Debates, even respectful ones, can feel not nice to the person losing. Are we also banning all debates?
Its not being nice to stern or such to complain about prices or code. Is that out now? Should it even be?
I'd propose that "be nice" shouldn't even be a rule. Perhaps some specific rules that are black and white and clear should replace something so ambiguous as "be nice".
Just my thoughts

If you are lucky enough to still have them, ask your parents. They should have taught you this a long time ago.

#49 2 years ago

#50 2 years ago

Great thread, would read again!

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