(Topic ID: 206344)

Why Do We Buy NIB LE Games Instaed Of A Base Model?


By whthrs166

2 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 52 posts
  • 28 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by Blitzburgh99
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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    Topic poll

    “Is it ok for a manufacturer to sell over the counter special features/upgrades from an LE game after building”

    • Yes, all options on the list for an LE game should be available to everyone else with the lower class game. (except the number) 23 votes
      19%
    • No, LE means that whatever is advertised on the LE game list (making it an LE) is for LE purchases only. 58 votes
      47%
    • Maybe, some minor items should be available, but there should alaways be a distinquishing feature for LE only 33 votes
      27%
    • Doesn't matter I just buy an LE because I think it is a good deal. 9 votes
      7%

    (123 votes by 0 Pinsiders)

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    There are 52 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
    #1 2 years ago

    Why do we buy LE NIB Really? Why spend extra money? What do we expect from an LE as opposed to a Premium or Standard? Does this sound like a dumb question? It seems to me that we all have our criteria on why to purchase an LE. Here is mine: The Extras (for an LE) are a good deal (cost) for what you get.
    I want that special feature that you cant get in any other class of the game. I want the game to be made in a limited quantity. Then there is the risk, I want to believe that my game will hold or appreciate in value as time goes on. I am ok if it doesn't. But lets be honest, everyone would like to know that they have made a sound investment even though that most likely its not. Finally, Do you think that it is ok for a manufacturer to make available LE (only) options for over the counter purchase for lower class games after the LE games are announced built and sold? Please use the poll. Make it known in your posts whether your a LE owner, premium or standard (classic) or all.

    12
    #2 2 years ago

    Ill let you know in a bit. Still reading through the poll questions.

    #3 2 years ago

    I think the over the counter parts dept trim upgrades they sell are different from what is found on an LE game, and the LE playfield features usually can’t be added. Ie game of thrones mini playfield for example. I also think you need proof you own an LE to get parts for one.

    I prefer the get the LE version to have what the designer originally intended to be on the playfield, and also like having different trim, art and backglass. Hopefully it won’t drop in value as much as the lower trim level machines, but only time will tell that. I usually keep games for a long time though, so albeit not a huge concern it is something I’d like to think is going to keep decent value

    #4 2 years ago

    Not just Pinball specific, but I think purchasing a Limited Edition means just that. A limited, typically numbered run made available to those customers that preorder early enough and pay a premium for it. Most Limited Editions are preordered well before the product is even available. The purchase is typically made blindly before they sell out! It is a trust/faith purchase between the early adopter customer and manufacture. Some companies have such a trusted customer following their Limited Editions sell out in seconds!!! If your not there on time you miss out! and even if you are there on time you sometimes miss out! That's why Limited Editions typically retain some value and hopefully appreciate.

    Why should any of those extras be made available after the fact?

    I typically buy Limited Editions for pretty much anything I am interested in if they are available (statues, art, cars, pinball machines). I do not like the feeling down the road that I missed out on something and I don't mind paying extra for that perceived security. What I don't like to see is reissues, variants or vault editions of something that I initially paid a premium for. I feel it is deceptive and a disservice for a company to cash in on demand after the fact if a product becomes popular releasing something similar to a Limited Edition.

    I will not support companies that do that.

    #6 2 years ago
    Quoted from whthrs166:

    Why do we buy LE NIB Really? Why spend extra money?

    Basically this. If you have the cash, why not. I don;t have the cash, so it doesn't make sense for my needs.

    #7 2 years ago

    I don’t. I prefer to wait a couple years and pick one up when the code is complete and the price gets lower than the premium NIB price

    #8 2 years ago

    Because some people have way too much money. I wish I had that problem.

    #9 2 years ago

    Because I'm a collector and focus on quality instead of quantity. If I were an operator I'd buy pro/base models and focus on profit margin.

    #10 2 years ago

    I like the premium/special/middle of the road option with Stern and CG remakes. I've never been into toppers and typically love the stainless or black trim options so I'm set. I won't lie that the mirror blades and saucer leds on AFM LE are awesome though and I'd buy it in a heartbeat.

    #11 2 years ago
    Quoted from GorillaBiscuits:

    I don’t. I prefer to wait a couple years and pick one up when the code is complete and the price gets lower than the premium NIB price

    Safe way to buy and I have done this. However in instances like Star Trek LE, you might not have that option because you cant find one!

    #12 2 years ago
    Quoted from fishmanrob:

    Because some people have way too much money. I wish I had that problem.

    I hear you! Most of the time this is me! Just don't have the funds. But this time I was able to sell another game and got the AFMrLE. My first NIB LE purchase!

    #13 2 years ago
    Quoted from SUPERBEE:

    Ill let you know in a bit. Still reading through the poll questions

    Sorry I was a bit long winded!

    #14 2 years ago

    Interesting Poll! I know this subject can be sensitive for some LE owners. Not everybody's LE experience is a good one.

    #15 2 years ago

    I think they should build a title so that premium features can be easily added to a base model (pro) later on. price it so the add-ons are more money separately than just outright buying the LE from the start. Over time a Pro owner could spend a little more money and have a "premium", or maybe just add the specific premium features they care about.

    10
    #16 2 years ago

    The reason why I buy NIB LE:

    I work my ass off and we only live once.

    #17 2 years ago

    Here's my two cents:

    For starters, the prices are absurd.

    Second, I don't see LE versions as "improved" Pros... I see the Pros as nothing more as stripped-down versions of the LE's...

    That being said, I think there should be just ONE version (LE), with Pro prices...

    And that's why I'd rather spend my hard earned money with good old B/W restored pins!

    #18 2 years ago
    Quoted from Trekkie1978:

    I work my ass off and we only live once.

    I Like this response! Amen brother!

    #19 2 years ago
    Quoted from AlexSMendes:

    I don't see LE versions as "improved" Pros... I see the Pros as nothing more as stripped-down versions of the LE's...
    That being said, I think there should be just ONE version (LE), with Pro prices...

    I totally agree. I think they would still sell all the LE models if all the models had the same playfield and gameplay, but you got cosmetic and some mechanical features that dont change the gameplay, limited art package, side rails, topper, metal wireforms, etc.

    Features like the mechanical cross would be cool LE items. I just don't like things like not having an upper playfield in one model. Its Busch League.

    #20 2 years ago
    Quoted from whthrs166:

    Safe way to buy and I have done this. However in instances like Star Trek LE, you might not have that option because you cant find one!

    Yeah I made an exception for that one. The upside is I enjoyed it for a year and broke even when I sold it

    #21 2 years ago
    Quoted from chubtoad13:

    I just don't like things like not having an upper playfield in one model. Its Busch League.

    I agree with this! That's ridiculous!

    #22 2 years ago

    I buy LE the same reason the guy above stated, it's what the designer intended the game to be. weather that be rgb lighting, a stupid hammer, extra playfield or whatever. Might not always mean better, but I usually like the add-ons enough. You can usually find pro's most of the time, at different locations to experience them both. it's doubtful you'll find the LE version of a game anywhere outside of a collectors house or at a show.

    #23 2 years ago
    Quoted from whthrs166:

    Why do we buy LE NIB Really?

    Who's we, lone ranger?

    #24 2 years ago

    Limited edition should be exactly that other wise we start calling them EE’s
    Everyone’s Edition

    #25 2 years ago
    Quoted from o-din:

    Who's we, lone ranger?

    Ha Ha You have to ask this?

    #26 2 years ago
    Quoted from Stretch7:

    Limited edition should be exactly that other wise we start calling them EE’s
    Everyone’s Edition

    Now don't give em any Ideas!

    #27 2 years ago
    Quoted from AlexSMendes:

    Here's my two cents:
    For starters, the prices are absurd.
    Second, I don't see LE versions as "improved" Pros... I see the Pros as nothing more as stripped-down versions of the LE's...
    That being said, I think there should be just ONE version (LE), with Pro prices...
    And that's why I'd rather spend my hard earned money with good old B/W restored pins!

    Agree with every part of this post.

    Borg, Ritchie and Trudeau have all confirmed on the record at one stage or another during interviews that they start with the LE design and then remove items to fit into the Pro price point.

    #28 2 years ago
    Quoted from pinsanity:

    Borg, Ritchie and Trudeau have all confirmed on the record at one stage or another during interviews that they start with the LE design and then remove items to fit into the Pro price point.

    I didn't know that. Thank you

    #29 2 years ago

    The only LE I have is Kiss. It has the best art package. Dream theme for me as I am a huge Kiss fan so I was LE all the way. Unless it’s a dream theme Premium is the next option. LE should ALWAYS have features/art unique to that model only. There has to be something to set it apart to make it limited.

    But I have to say LE is not always the best...MoPLE is UGLY AS HELL!!! The cabinet art does not go with the playfield. As much as I love Master of Puppets it just doesn’t work. The road case Premium is probably the real LE....wonder what the actual number of those produced is...

    But let’s be honest, by today’s production numbers every new game is limited. I have no inside knowledge but I bet AC/DC may be the only modern game to come close to selling over 5,000 games. That’s nothing when you think about some older titles having 15-20K made.

    #30 2 years ago
    Quoted from Pickle:

    But let’s be honest, by today’s production numbers every new game is limited.

    Good point, but a lot of these new games are still being made with no end in sight or brought back as VE or an SE or special collectors edition....
    It can get outta hand in a hurry!

    #31 2 years ago

    There is an old quote:
    "Just because you can, does not mean you should."

    "We" is not inclusive of "all" in this hobby at least by many.
    What should be defined is the term "we".
    New owners, collectors in general, or enthusiasts?
    Certainly not players.
    "Owning games to play" is never a good option for sustainment.
    LEs are not generally that lucrative or worthwhile, and only exists in its modern form of this industry for less than the last 5 years. It is like a donkey chasing a carrot on a stick attached to its back. Status symbols fade with time, if a person sticks around, just like the preorder industry model that is dying as prices rose uncontrollably the same amount of time. People are finally educating themselves that 500-1000 LE games is not limited for a title. In boutique companies attempts are no longer equitable for 300 runs such as RZ, Jetsons, or anything else.

    The number of limited edition games prior to TODAY in the past 30 years can be counted on less than two hands.
    The only true exception of a limited edition game that sold very well to private owners in a time before 1999 was TAFG, which over 65% sold to collectors. The "why" was direct. The original game was unavailable to buyers (operators bought out the stock for routes), original versions were already played out, and BLY/WMS still had plenty of parts and cabinets to cash back in on the game. It was a good financial decision.
    There are still a few TAFG even in their boxes today remaining, but kept in that method for the same unfortunate reasons as buying an LE game. Why own a game a person still refuses to play or simply wants to show off to others?
    "Look at this TAFG still in its box." (But I refuse to sell the game, which I personally have witnessed)
    Hardly impressive to most that have been around the block.
    No jealousy on my part, I have owned enough games and know what I want remaining.

    #32 2 years ago
    Quoted from whthrs166:

    I didn't know that. Thank you

    Quoted from pinsanity:

    Agree with every part of this post.
    Borg, Ritchie and Trudeau have all confirmed on the record at one stage or another during interviews that they start with the LE design and then remove items to fit into the Pro price point.

    Ritchie and Trudeau yes, but Borg has said in the past that he starts with the Pro model, then adds for the Premium / LE.

    #33 2 years ago
    Quoted from xTheBlackKnightx:

    There is an old quote:
    "Just because you can, does not mean you should."
    "We" is not inclusive of "all" in this hobby by many.
    LEs are not generally that lucrative or worthwhile, and only exists in its modern form of this industry for less than the last 5 years.
    It is like a donkey chasing a carrot on a stick attached to its back.
    The number of games prior to this time in the past 30 years can be counted on less than two hands

    What does this mean? "We" does not mean all ever in any hobby.... nor should be construed as such.

    #34 2 years ago
    Quoted from whthrs166:

    Good point, but a lot of these new games are still being made with no end in sight or brought back as VE or an SE or special collectors edition....
    It can get outta hand in a hurry!

    Good point but it seems each VE run is getting shorter and shorter. So not enough to effect the production numbers by a large amount.

    #35 2 years ago

    I own an LE because it is a status symbol and I like to impress not only my friends, but strangers as well.

    Unknown (resized).jpg

    #36 2 years ago
    Quoted from o-din:

    I own an LE because it is a status symbol and I like to impress not only my friends, but strangers as well.

    I am a Lone stranger and I'm impressed! Oh that's right Lone Ranger... got it!

    #37 2 years ago

    You're not the Lone Ranger anymore, Kemosabe!

    #38 2 years ago
    Quoted from Pickle:

    So not enough to effect the production numbers by a large amount.

    So they haven't sold many VEs. got it

    #39 2 years ago
    Quoted from o-din:

    You're not the Lone Ranger anymore, Kemosabe!

    So I'm off the hook?

    #40 2 years ago
    Quoted from whthrs166:

    So I'm off the hook?

    Yeah, I now realize my CamryLE puts me right up there with all the big boys and their toys. So like the saying goes, if you can't beat em, join em.

    #41 2 years ago

    I don't always assume the LE is the definitive model to buy and actually prefer the pro gameplay on some titles. That said if an LE speaks to me like STLE I'll happily drop the extra coin on one. I'm never just buying for the "limited" appeal.

    #42 2 years ago

    I buy games based on looks, features, and gameplay.

    Stern's Tron LE, Metallica LE and Star Trek LE all are unique in what they offer and have collectibility over other versions. I can't say Stern has come out with anything as of late that would make me want to pay the extra money, seems better to go premium or pro nowadays with Stern.

    CGC gives some cool options to go LE, upgraded sound, shaker, topper, color choice of powder coating color and additional features. (yes on LE for CGC)

    JJP has LE games but seems like they just keep building different versions of the same thing so no real point in paying extra.

    #43 2 years ago
    Quoted from o-din:

    Yeah, I now realize my CamryLE puts me right up there with all the big boys and their toys. So like the saying goes, if you can't beat em, join em.

    Welcome to club brother! Now lets head over to the Puke Club and have beer!

    #44 2 years ago
    Quoted from sparechange1974:

    CGC gives some cool options to go LE, upgraded sound, shaker, topper, color choice of powder coating color and additional features. (yes on LE for CGC)

    Yeah and will be exciting to see what they for us this year!

    #45 2 years ago
    Quoted from sparechange1974:

    I buy games based on looks, features, and gameplay.
    Stern's Tron LE, Metallica LE and Star Trek LE all are unique in what they offer and have collectibility over other versions. I can't say Stern has come out with anything as of late that would make me want to pay the extra money, seems better to go premium or pro nowadays with Stern.
    CGC gives some cool options to go LE, upgraded sound, shaker, topper, color choice of powder coating color and additional features. (yes on LE for CGC)
    JJP has LE games but seems like they just keep building different versions of the same thing so no real point in paying extra.

    It seems that their LE philosophy is a bit skewed IMHO and that is exactly what I am talking about here. What do the LE customers want in an LE. I think the poll speaks for itself!

    #46 2 years ago

    i only have a couple of LE's in my collection, i am generally a PREMIUM purchaser, however I love powdercoated armor, love upgraded lighting (although premiums have that) and really like a killer backglass. My issue purchasing an LE, is to guarantee one, you almost always have to get in early, without even playing the game. Grrrrrrrrr.....

    #47 2 years ago

    I was less interested in the DI "LE" moniker and number and plaque than in the added features: to me, the added stuff was worth the extra K. Well, maybe a _little_ overpriced, but close enough.

    #48 2 years ago
    Quoted from fxdwg:

    without even playing the game. Grrrrrrrrr.....

    Yeah Man Gotcha there! It can be a huge risk especially with a new manufacturer! I haven't had those opportunities and I am usually shy about jumping on them. I do not have unlimited funds for games with todays prices. I have to usually sell one to generate the funds for another one new or otherwise!

    #49 2 years ago

    I liked the LE’s but they seem to be getting watered down. The Stars Wars LE I bought was not a LE. When compared to Star Trek LE it had no beauty or anything special over the premium. The laser cut side rails with the the laser shooting enterprise, brush aluminum speaker panel, cutout lights in the back box and mirrored back glass was in the Star Trek. With the Star Wars LE over the premium I only got a signed number and two extra translights. I just sold my Star Wars LE as game play not there and clearly not a LE just a profit center for Stern.

    On JPP LE stands for Latest Edition. They just number three different color schemes and number LE a to sell for more. The Standard editions probably have less produced than the LE’s. All of us who have bought JJP know they drop like a rock in resale due to unlimited supply of Latest Editions.

    On Chicago Gaming the LE I bought on MMr meant nothing. I got a discount on the color upgrade and a numbered sticker and shaker motor. On AFMr they have really taken to a new level. Great topper different dmd and really a completely great game. Time will tell if they go the latest edition route and make games forever. This includes al cart the upgrades.

    On any new LE’s I am sitting on the sidelines. Between Batman, Ghost Busters, All JPP games and the final straw Star Wars. Better to wait and over pay for great game.

    #50 2 years ago
    Quoted from o-din:

    Yeah, I now realize my CamryLE puts me right up there with all the big boys and their toys. So like the saying goes, if you can't beat em, join em.

    Used-2004-Toyota-Sienna-LE (resized).jpg

    I'm in too

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