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(Topic ID: 165957)

Why do some people say TWD has the best code?


By rai

4 years ago



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  • 31 posts
  • 21 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 years ago by rai
  • Topic is favorited by 4 Pinsiders

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    #1 4 years ago

    Maybe not best of all time Stern but in the last several years some people say TWD is one of the best codes.

    I'm a big code guy, not only rules which are most important, but I talk code as being sound effects, call outs, lighting, dmd display, info about what to do or what happened. Also lack of major bugs or road blocks. Good for either short time or long drawn out game.

    Also a game that's able to be played and appreciated by a weak player as well as a champion level player and all grades of players in between. Code with some easy front end reward and large hard far away back end reward. Something to allow you to feel mildly satisfied (like making it to CIU or SOS) but still feel like there is a whole other level to follow.

    I'm thinking SM, Tron, Metallica have also been mentioned as having very good code as well, what would make TWD better than those?

    I had SM and felt it was not great unless I had a marathon game, a short game was just a waste of time IMO. IM Great callouts and such and intense but kind of the same game every time. Great game but the code of IM is good for a short game and SM good for long game Tron and Met I think are good for either short or long game.

    #2 4 years ago

    Some people say this because they really like the code - the modes, the way the drops work, and the nice touches on the LE/Premium like the walker bombs. Basically, the code took a game with a layout that wasn't incredibly appealing and took it next level.

    Other people prefer other games, and wouldn't like the code.

    basically it's the same as every other pinball machine ever made. You can't really directly compare the code between all of the games you mentioned, because, for instance, having drop target code on SM or Metallica would be pretty stupid, since those games don't have drop targets.

    #3 4 years ago

    It isn't just because of the depth, it is the fact that the code matches the physical brutality perfectly. It is in the combination of brutal play that the excellent software starts to shine. It kind of makes you feel like you actually are in a zombie apocalypse.

    You can't think of it in terms of a normal game software which has something for everyone. It is only those fleeting adrenaline fueled moments where it shines. I played that game a ton, and it never clicked. Then with newer versions of the software I again tried to like it, and the match is amazing. Sometimes the game design and software design just work together. This one does that extreamly well. So when people say it is one of the best coded Stern games, it all comes down to addictive nature of the game where physical and software collide.

    #4 4 years ago

    I'm not a fan of the game personally, but I get the impression it's partly do to the way the modes are designed (they seem to be a bit more complex than just 'this shot is worth tons of points for the next 30 seconds', although I'm not super familiar with them), as well as the multiballs. The prison multiball, despite having a bash toy for it, requires you to first bash it some, then choose between hitting shots or bashing it (bashing is dangerous, but easy, shots are harder to hit, but will get you done faster), and then once you get to multiball, the rules are, again, a bit more complex than some games, as you have to hit shots, then go back to bash the doors, instead of just, say, 'all shots are lit for jackpot'. The bloodbath MB on the drops is also a less 'stardard' multiball, both in how you start it, and the rules (I can't think of any other add-a-ball focused MB besides Centaur?). The skillshot is also slightly more complex than normal. Maybe the well walker has some extra little things in the rules, but I'm not sure, I just hit it over and over.

    Basically, most aspects of the game seem to be slightly harder, and require more thought, than the 'common denominator' games. Although I can certainly think of specific aspects where other games beat it, those games generally will still have some simpler aspects as well.

    Metallica, similarly, goes a bit beyond normal games with some of the features, such as the way you collect items and qualify hurry-ups, or the rules in some of the Crank It Up modes (I've heard people say Enter Sandman is the coolest mode in pinball).

    Spiderman, to me, feels like the most basic, lazy code you could have (except for the shot multiplying rules, but they're also not very clear). Start a mode? Shoot all the shots. Modes? Shoot all the shots, frenzy, shoot this specific shot a lot. Start multiball? Hit a target, then hit an orbit, or just shoot Doc Ock repeatedly. Multiball rules? Shoot all the shots. Villains? Shoot the villain a whole bunch to start them, then shoot them some more. I'm probably doing the game a bit of a disservice as I don't play it much (because I think it sucks) but that's my general understanding of the rules. It has good callouts?

    -10
    #5 4 years ago

    Because it's by Lyman and pinside gobbles down Lyman's nuts.

    #6 4 years ago

    Simply put it is Lyman's best and most well rounded rule-set. Scoring is relatively balanced, there is good risk-reward, It doesn't really require you to chop wood or have a 45+ minute game to do well, the theme integration is on point, etc.

    #7 4 years ago
    Quoted from ectobar:

    Because it's by Lyman and pinside gobbles down Lyman's nuts.

    Yup, total group think. It has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that he writes great games

    #8 4 years ago

    I'll site one example to illustrate the level of detail in this game, the Skill Shot.

    There are two star rollovers before entering the lanes. (Left side of picture both are blue stacked on top of each other) These rollovers alternate flashing showing them lit together or one at a time. (There's a flashing pattern you can watch to help with timing)

    For maximum points your timing needs to be hitting both of the rollovers when lit together then followed by going down which ever lane is lit for the skill shot. (You can do a normal lane change with either flipper button)

    1. If you miss the skill shot the zombie on the DMD lives.

    2. If you hit only one star rollover and then the skill shot the DMD shows you making a shotgun blast that blows off half of a zombie's head.

    3. If you get both stars and then the correct lane, the shotgun you're holding blows the zombies head clean off.

    What a great, fun distraction I just have to watch each time.

    Then there is another skill shot where the shot gun on the DMD is replace by you holding a hand gun. - But I haven't figured that one out yet. 2nd ball skill shot maybe?

    Anyone?? - Please feel free to comment with any additions or corrections.

    And by the way, I am not a deep rules guy. I like cool type of shit like this. - I absolutely love this game and consider it one of Sterns finest.

    6a00d83452989a69e201a73e1440ad970d_(resized).jpg

    #9 4 years ago

    handgun is if you miss both lit roll overs but still make the lit lane. single shot shotgun hitting one lit rollover and blows off half the zombie head when hitting the lit lane, both rollovers lit double shot from double barrel shotgun blows off zombie head completely when hitting the lit lane.

    now if someone could just explain the damn drop target to me. I know I have to drop all three to light dead features, but I have watched bowens video a zillion times and STILL don't get the difference between, food, health and weapons, or whatever the hell they are. LOL

    #10 4 years ago

    Blood bath is perfect. Modes are on point. And of course Mulitkill and HORDE push it over the top

    #11 4 years ago

    I did a complete write up of why TWD is so good in this thread...

    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/why-twd-is-better-than-met-or-acdc/page/4#post-2875162

    To summarize, it's the logical progression of taking the best of AC/DC and the best of Metallica ->>> result is TWD (code-wise).

    #12 4 years ago

    So much awesome coding. Balanced scoring, many ways to play, a non-linear rule set, deep deep deep but not mode overload, and still approachable play for novices as well. All shots very relevant to the theme with woodbury, riot, cdc, tunnel, prison, well walker, etc. The best dot animations going, really really great dots. Multiple great modes. Watch the red pulsing lighting/shaker effects with great music in horde mode on the prem/le, considered to be one of the best modes in all of pinball. Lots of interesting combinations, options, stacking and extra scoring opportunities. It has it all.

    #13 4 years ago
    Quoted from fxdwg:

    explain the damn drop target to me. I know I have to drop all three to light dead features, but I have watched bowens video a zillion times and STILL don't get the difference between, food, health and weapons

    From the rules sheet located at https://docs.google.com/document/d/1XNUs8fgLOB2hVBBzcsgxDvdEuBbGhRuwSJdkkeo1Xv4

    Drop Targets
    Hitting the drop targets will freeze the currently flashing option (First Aid, Weapons, or Food). Complete the drop targets to be awarded that item.
    Collecting an item will prime the location modes. Second and beyond location modes are primed by collecting 2 items.
    Collect a full set to prime Blood Bath multiball (Add-a-Ball multiball mode)
    Collecting Food awards:
    Pro: Bonus Points added to Walker Hits during Well Walker MB
    LE: Walker Bomb
    Collecting Weapon awards: Crossbow shot. Shoot the right ramp to collect the crossbow shot
    Collecting First Aid awards:
    Pro: Bonus Points added to Jackpots during Prison MB
    LE: Prison Bombs

    #14 4 years ago

    Sorry, this has been beat to death (pun) but is the pro a viable option? I mean do people really care for the crossbow and the BG bash toy or do they put up with that so they get the other extras on the LE/premium?

    I for one, defend XMLE because it's got better cab art (IMO) and the pop up NC and spining disc both are nice. But I put up with the moving ramp and the way Wolveriene is positioned wrong because I like other aspects of the LE pin. But overall (as with many pins) the pro might be as good as the premium (Metallica or ST for example).

    #15 4 years ago
    Quoted from rai:

    Sorry, this has been beat to death (pun) but is the pro a viable option? I mean do people really care for the crossbow and the BG bash toy or do they put up with that so they get the other extras on the LE/premium?

    The Pro is awesome, especially for the money! i would be more than happy with a TWD Pro. Biggest thing it's missing is Walker Bombs which are great but you can live without them.

    #16 4 years ago

    For me part of the attraction of the code now is knowing how crap it was originally and seeing it develop. I spent the first 6 months thinking I'd bought a dog and since then loving it. I'd still like to see some changes but who knows if anything will be changed. With the skill shot being able to scroll the options on the last (and easiest) position seems to be a bit of a cop out. I almost always select the last position and use the auto fire which reduces the challenge.

    #17 4 years ago

    Couldn't Stern sell a new lockdown bar for the Pro with a button and add walker bombs to the Pro code? I would be in.

    #18 4 years ago
    Quoted from rai:

    Sorry, this has been beat to death (pun) but is the pro a viable option? I mean do people really care for the crossbow and the BG bash toy or do they put up with that so they get the other extras on the LE/premium?

    I've played the pro a lot more than the premium. When you factor in the additional $2k I think the pro is the better value. BUT - I'm playing on location where I have more than a hundred pinball machines to pick from. The color changing LEDs add to the experience too. The bombs just make the game easier, giving you another way to collect the next jackpot/goal. If you want the game easier there are ways to do it that don't involve spending another $2k.

    If I'm buying for my home and money is no object, LE all the way. If I want the best value, pro all the way.

    #19 4 years ago
    Quoted from gripwhip:

    Couldn't Stern sell a new lockdown bar for the Pro with a button and add walker bombs to the Pro code? I would be in.

    I'm sure it would be easy enough for Stern to do but then it would also be even easier for them to add Spinner code into Met Pro to improve that game. Stern won't do it because they need to give buyers a reason to buy the more expensive (and more profitable) version of their games vs. giving them a Pro that is almost exactly the same.

    #20 4 years ago

    Yeah, but walker bombs were added later. I get that if it originally was coded that way when the Prem/LE was released.

    #21 4 years ago

    Rai, have you actually played TWD much? If not, you really should get some games on it before buying.

    The notion that TWD is good for novices is laughable. The only reason that's remotely true is because there are bash based mb's you can start. My wife/daughter don't even consider playing mine because it's difficult, whereas they will both regularly play ST. If you don't have good ball control skills, and are willing to take your time and get things stacked, you're never going to do well in TWD. And to get anything stacked, you have to complete the drops which are the most dangerous shot in the game (the bottom drop anyway). I'm sure you can set the game up easier, but if set up stock, if you brick a shot, your most likely losing that ball. Combine that with the inevitable SDTM drains from the pops/prison, it can be very frustrating.

    I was on the verge of selling mine because of the drains, but it was because my tilt was too tight. I remembered that the reason I loved playing the game was because the couple TWD's local to me had forgiving tilts and it was fun to give it the business. I've since loosened my tilt, and am once again a big fan of the game.

    #22 4 years ago

    The game to me has hints of other Borg titles like MET, TRON and XMEN, but combines a lot of those features into one package. The code feels like it's relatively easy for newcomers to pick up -- just bash away at Prison/Well Walker for multiball, or shoot lit crosshairs to kill Walkers. At the same time the game offers so much more to experts, with Dead Features, Walker Bombs and tons of strategic opportunities like 2X scoring and the shot multipliers, along with tons of wizard modes. It might not be as beginner-friendly as other games, but I do believe there's at least something for newbies to shoot for.

    Quoted from gripwhip:

    Couldn't Stern sell a new lockdown bar for the Pro with a button and add walker bombs to the Pro code? I would be in.

    That's the one thing I've been wishing the Pro had in the first place-- walker bombs. I'd be up for that too, but I think Stern won't do it because it might divert customers' incentives away from purchasing Premiums. But you never know. They probably want to keep it an "exclusive" feature. That's kind of why you don't see Daft Punk Multiball from TRON LE on the TRON Pro.

    #23 4 years ago

    thanks for the explanation and link. I read through these. and now my head hurts. I think maybe this game is too complicated for me. (prolly why I still appreciate pacman with only 4 directions to move and no fire button! lol)

    I will read more and play a bit at a time focusing only on that feature that I read about. that should do it!! until then I will bash the hell out of the well walker and bicycle girl.

    #24 4 years ago
    Quoted from rai:

    Sorry, this has been beat to death (pun) but is the pro a viable option? I mean do people really care for the crossbow and the BG bash toy or do they put up with that so they get the other extras on the LE/premium?
    I for one, defend XMLE because it's got better cab art (IMO) and the pop up NC and spining disc both are nice. But I put up with the moving ramp and the way Wolveriene is positioned wrong because I like other aspects of the LE pin. But overall (as with many pins) the pro might be as good as the premium (Metallica or ST for example).

    Yep premium is a much better overall experience imo with more shots and the horror atomasphere really comes through with premium/le

    -1
    #25 4 years ago
    Quoted from gripwhip:

    Yeah, but walker bombs were added later. I get that if it originally was coded that way when the Prem/LE was released.

    I agree. It is the ONLY feature worth anything on the prem/le over the PRO model.

    I could see them issuing a mod in the future after the liscence runs out. Basically a final code update where PRO owners can but a $400 lock down bar and the new code. Seems like an easy upsell and the premium/LE owners dont really have a complaint since the walker bombs were just an added feature much later in development to boost prem sales.

    Nice upsell opportunity for Stern.

    #26 4 years ago

    Biggest difference is the color LED's on the premium - really makes a difference as they change colors at different times. Really adds to the intensity.

    Sometimes they go green which is a good thing but I haven't figured out why!

    I didn't like the game at all when it came out but now it is my favorite Stern ever.

    #27 4 years ago
    Quoted from Shapeshifter:

    Biggest difference is the color LED's on the premium - really makes a difference as they change colors at different times. Really adds to the intensity.
    Sometimes they go green which is a good thing but I haven't figured out why!
    I didn't like the game at all when it came out but now it is my favorite Stern ever.

    Them and the dual gi lightshow are really nice.

    #28 4 years ago

    Love the game and the rules. If I had one complaint about it, I think that awarding only a point value for a skill shot is missing out on some great opportunities. Thrones and Star Trek are like that, Kiss doesn't even really have one. GB, Mustang, ACDC, Metallica, and even Whoa Nellie have a little something extra for you in the skill shot. Maybe give progress towards a multikill light? Anything other than a paltry 1,750,000 on a game where that isn't worth very much.

    #29 4 years ago
    1 month later
    #30 4 years ago

    It's a game high on my want list and...gulp...selling my Tron Pro to experience this game at home. I have enjoyed it on location with early code, so I can only imagine how much fun I will have with current code.

    #31 4 years ago

    So I just traded my XMLE for TWD pro.

    I'm still just a few dozen games under my belt but I am beginning to understand it better.

    I think there is a lot of nuances and complexity not as complex as ACDC, but not as simple as IM/Tron kind of like Metallica(plus). It's kind of a good amount of rules while I like Tron and IM they seem to be a little short on rules (still fun but most the games seem to be very similar).

    ST or XM do have more modes but those pins didn't feel as alive or as well integrated. What I mean they feel more like a game where the modes are like a to-do list, where TWD is more immersive and I feel like I'm actually in on the action.

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