Deleted... wasn’t helpful

The best way to buy a game is to go see it in person. Many sellers aren't interested in shipping a game, and would prefer to sell locally. Additionally, they wouldn't rather take the risk of someone possibly being a scammer. Typically, scammers want games shipped and have little to no history on the site.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/attention-don-t-get-scammed

https://beta.pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/how-to-not-get-ripped-off-in-pinball-vids-guide/

However, you're lucky--down in Florida there is a good community of pinball enthusiasts, so it's possible that you may be able to buy a game that's within a couple hours of driving.

See if you can connect with some of the folks in your area. Be sure to check out any regional for-sale threads.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/forum/regional-for-sale-threads

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/whats-for-sale-in-central-and-northern-florida

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/wfs-in-mslaaralwest-tenn-fl-panhandle

Cash in hand is great if you're coming in person with it, but shipping on a long distance sale with a brand new member is not a good idea in the eyes of most pinsiders exercising an appropriate level of caution. People have been scammed with these kinds of situations, and pinside is pretty insular to try to help prevent that. The pinsiders you sent your message to probably had a warning message generated by Pinside above your messages warning them that you were a new member and to be wary of dealing with you until you have a history so the risk of getting scammed is lowered.

If you have local pinheads that are also pinsiders that can vouch for you with the long-distance seller, that will help, but the answer to your problem is likely not the one you want to hear - that it will take time, with lots of participation by you on the forums to establish a record, before you are trusted for long term dealing.

I have had great interactions with many people here since joining last year. I have bought mods, machines, and parts from multiple pinside folks. Not saying it is, but are you sure its not your approach or something that is turning folks away?

This is the single best piece of advice, especially in a seller's market I think. I have had several great transactions with Pinside members, but almost all were in person, "Cash on the Glass". It can make for a long drive, but frankly, that is part of the allure of the hobby IMO - check out this thread:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/what-machine-did-you-bring-home-today-post-your-pictures/page/380#post-6064408

You can't change being a new member; but you can add an Avatar to personalize yourself, and post more frequently as two posts is not much of an indicator of who you are (no inquiries or posts in club threads of pins you are interested in). Also, there is always NIB or from an established dealer - costs more but if this is your first pin, having some support might be a nice thing.

Good luck!

You may find more long term enjoyment with pinball if you do not take things personal . Best part your no response issue so far the links from ForceFlow . Read and be better prepared for your purchase .
As far as why no response some sellers ( I am not into game sales ) want no hassles . Hassles can extend well beyond the cash on glass game transfer. Some new people assume life tech support , buyers remorse etc . Seller may look into posting history to see if person inquiring potential PITA .

Enjoy the day Shane

Agree. Try buying in person. I have met quite a few Pinsiders in person, both buying and selling. It's fun to put a name with a face, and all have been friendly. Beside that, if you buy in person you will see what you are getting.

Did they say they are willing to ship? That’s what would stop me and you from making a deal. I only do local pickup in person.

But they should at least respond. That’s annoying for sure. Seems like you’re doing nothing wrong. I would’ve responded to you. Haha

Oh and upload an avatar.

I’m curious what the content of your PMs were to the sellers. LOTS of us sellers are wary of time wasters, or “tire kickers”. There are only so many games to go around, and sellers will prefer to sell to a well known person, someone who physically shows up with cash in hand, or someone who just makes a deal outright without making a big deal out of it.

I get a lot of buyers who want me to take a million photos, then don’t respond, or want to negotiate price, or suddenly their wife finds out and they bail. There are just too many legit buyers out there to waste your life dealing with that crap. You may be totally legitimate, but a new member along with the types of questions you are asking may set off alarm bells and the seller may choose to just move on. Don’t take it personally.

We were all new at one point, and had to start collecting somehow. So i don’t automatically assume that a new pinsider is a scammer. But that said they will have to convince me they are not. If i have something for sale and they want to make a roadtrip to pick it up then all is good. If i post an ad and the first response i get is from someone who joined that day and wants it shipped thats a huge red flag. I will always reply and be polite and respectful buy won’t be shipping anything.

Its more than being scammed. Its also that new collectors may have a different expectations about condition. And unreasonable expectations lead to dissatisfaction and pinside bitch threads or leaving shitty feedback. I like many here work hard to build good reputations. not just through buying and selling but also from within the discussion/tech support forum threads. I’m not willing to jeopardize that for Pinball Karen.

I’d rather someone new come and see it, play test it and verify it is as described. I will take the time to answer any questions, and explain everything I know about the machine.

Sellers are allowed to be selective about who they deal with. Many of us extend priority to known, local and regional buyers. Develop relationships with local pinsiders, develop some rapport, and it will become less of an issue. It's nothing personal, and it's all about becoming part of a community.

If I haven't sold to you before, I'm selling cash on glass, or COD. And there's only one transporter I trust to carry my machine until he collects the cash and it becomes your machine. He only does in-state deliveries. Sure, it limits my market reach as a seller, but no regrets.

Rule #1 Seller never lets a machine leave their possession until money is in their hands.
Rule #2 Seller never arranges shipping. It’s the buyers responsibility.

Good luck finding a seller who will ignore either of these rules.

I agree about posting in a regional thread. It seems people are more likely to respond for obvious reasons. I've posted looking for games and bought a few that weren't listed for sale anywhere. People saw my post and decided it was time to let one go. I realize you may not know exactly what you want but it might shake a few out of the woodwork near you. Good luck

I reviewed your profile and your ad. Here are my thoughts.

1. You’ve only been a member for three days. New members when buying pins have a expectation that when they buy a pin the seller will help them with repairs down the road. Not true. Part of this hobby is learning to do your own repairs.

2. You’re wanting to pay what I think is a reasonable price for a 7 year old pin, but because it’s a top 10 pin in most polls, most people want $6800-7000.

3. Since the pin in question is in high demand, why would I as a seller want to sell at a low price to a new buyer when I can easily sell to fellow local collectors who’ll pay cash and you want to pay via PayPal or other online payment.

4. Change your ad and say that you’ll be willing to pick up within x miles.

5. Find pinball locations near you that are open and visit them. Meet fellow pinheads and start networking.

6. When we’re past covid pinball leagues will start up again. Join a local league as it’s a great way to network. Most pins are sold by word of mouth, not on CL, FB, etc.

7. There’s a local seller in Atlanta with a Metallica Monsters premium for $6900. If you’re willing to pick it up in person and pay cash on the glass I can put you in touch with him.

Some really helpful advice right there. bluespin great post.

If you want to earn the trust of pinside, you need to start a “playfield dimpling?!” Or “is the bubble bursting?!” Thread.

The more ? And ! The better!

Just being honest here and I have been on the site for years now. I have tried to buy 10 games in the last month with no luck because I like to ship games. I hate driving and the thought of driving 10+ hours for a pinball machine makes me just not want the game. I enjoy pinball but not that much. I finally found what I was looking for within a 3 hour drive and sent my son to pick it up. I dont really understand the NO ship thing. Once you get the money via wire or whatever and it clears who gives a crap. A lot of these guys do not want to answer 500 questions about the game and just want a easy sell and they see your new and just ignore the possible headache.

7. I bought this game last weekend unless there is another for 6900 in Atlanta

It will take time to build relationships in this community, but well worth it. Give it some time
Scammers and unethical buyers are all over, and leave a bad impression. Being a new member, a few sellers will be wary of this when seeing your profile.

Everyone above has mentioned cash on the glass, that will be your best bet.

PM to a seller is a good start, but be patient as most of us on this forum have different check in times.

Overall, welcome to the community, and good luck in your hunt for awesome games!

Looks like jerzyrob is willing to ship so not sure what happened there. MET premium is a great first pin. Lots going on and will keep your interest for a while.

I can explain this to you, because I understand it. Shipping a pin is a royal pain in the ass. I do ship pins, and have many times. But I shrinkwrap the hell out of it and have to cut cardboard to pad the corners of everything and make sure everything is secured down tight. Sound easy? It's not. It takes a couple of hours to do it correctly, and some guys would rather just wheel the f**king thing out to somebody's car and be done with it.

Dude, I have been around for a while. I have shipped probably 25 games at least. Buyer sets it up, shipping company sets appt, shipping company calls 30 minutes prior to pickup, shipping company shows up and wraps game. SUPER EASY! I do not pallet or take game to a terminal unless they pay lots of extra money.

I don't think sellers ignore new members. I think they ignore selling to someone that has different buying terms.

You are asking to have the seller prep the game for shipment and deliver to a shipping dock. I wouldn't do that, however, I would sell to someone (and have several times) where the buyer pays ahead and arranges the shipping. Like others said, the shippers came to my place, wrapped the machine and carried it out to their waiting truck. I didn't have to do anything. Tell the seller you will pay in advance and arrange all the shipping.

You've been lucky. Those shipping companies have a bad habit of fucking up games because they don't care enough about other people's stuff. I don't leave it to them to pack...I didn't spend all the time and money I did making my games look great just to have some momo screw the thing up because he's in a rush.

Pins can have minor issues occur in shipping; wire breaks off in transport so now one the flippers, pop bumpers, etc. doesn’t work. A first time buyer doesn’t know how to use a soldering iron (or own one, etc.) so they start a Pinside forum complaining about the seller, or worse, they file a charge back with their credit card company.

I have had three new members contact me about a pin I’m selling.
First, was a no call/no show ( New Bloomfield, PA).
2nd and 3rd new members are a father and son from Howell,NJ. Communication is inconsistent, despite offering other means of contact.
Not sure, this can be chalked up to being new..

As a seller, my experience with "new" pinsiders can be:
- they lowball like mad
- STILL want the game shipped

Then get confused why I don't make the time to respond. I mean I try to keep it positive, but if your idea of negotiating is to offer 60% of my ask price and wanting me to ship it, really...

I've had similar experience but only buy in person. I do tend to ask a few questions before having to drive hours just to see the game in person, especiliy when picutres are limited, not great or do not show normal wear areas.
What I find when you ask questions you get ignored. It's not like we are buying a few hundred dollar item, the pins I'm asking questions about are thousands of dollars, asking a few questions that take a few minutes to answer shouldn't be an issue for someone willing to drive hours with a lot cash to buy something sight unseen, but that is just my opinion.

But in the end I can see the path of least resistance is applied and if there is a market and buyer willing to not ask questions and put cash on the glass, the seller will prefer that route over someone asking questions. So not until the pin is not moving the seller may be movatited to answer, at least that is the way I'm looking it.

because many people who buy 'remote' don't really have the skin for it. They buy w/o personally inspecting the game, so they get all bent out of shape for things they didn't catch... or worse.. the buyer who can't cope with the realities of things breaking/changing due to shipping/time and believe it's the seller's responsibility to correct whatever happened since the game left. Or call/nag you trying to get you to debug or help them fix things remotely.

It's a PITA if your buyer isn't self-sufficient and educated in buying pins.

I don't want to deal with packing the game.

I don't trust these shippers not F'ing up the game.

When you live in Ohio, it's not too hard to find local buyers, so why deal with the hassle?

I've never had a no-ship seller refuse to allow me to hire someone to pack and ship the game. Michelle's legs-on white glove service where you leave the pin in the garage and they handle the packing and take it away has been fantastic. That said, if I were a 3-day-new pinside buyer (or even 6 months new), I should not expect the same results.

Also, in CA, Chris Fox is the BOMB for shipping anywhere in CA and some of NV/AZ. Almost half what commercial carriers charge, and he really takes care of the pins. I use him quite a bit, and there are supposedly people like him that run up and down the east coast, too.

I think you may be going off of a few false assumptions. Pins are a hot commodity, and in general, if I list a pin and it is reasonably priced I get multiple offers almost immediately. In fact, I have sold pins on pinside within minutes of listing them. When I sold my Fish Tales I had over 30 offers in a week. When I have 30 offers, and one is offering full price while another is trying to work a golf cart into a trade, which one do you think I will accept? If someone listed a Metallica Premium near me (D.C. metro) in your price range it would sell instantly. As a general rule, I take the first full price offer that comes to me, or if looking for a trade take the first trade to show up I like. Fairly priced pins are not staying up on the site for weeks or days even.

As to shipping, why would I risk that? I could see if I was having trouble selling it local offering shipping, or maybe to a well established pinsider, but why? It adds risk into the equation. It also means that instead of having an extra hand to move a pin which is a pain, that I have to do all the work myself and risk breaking it in transport. I’d be willing to deliver for a fee, but there is too much risk in shipping. I think most of the people having pins shipped are paying top dollar, or at the least paying a premium.

In general, if I get a wall of text in an offer picking apart how nasty my machine is and trying to beat me down on price I’ll just tell people no. I will knock the price down if it doesn’t sell in a few days, but if you are offering people $6,000 for their Metallica Premium out the gate you are going to have problems… especially if you want them to do 3 hours of work packing it, and take on a huge risk by having it shipped to a stranger with no reputation.
Buy local if you can.

Sheesh!! You could have just told me you didn't want my golf cart

Lololololol

As someone who's bought and sold about two dozen pins via bank wire/paypal and a 3rd party shipper, I don't get it either, but thankfully there's a lot of people out there who do ship. A lot of the newer and higher end stuff usually has shipping, while mid and lower priced stuff doesn't. Which makes sense, the $300-$600 cost of shipping isn't very practical for a machine that costs a grand or two.

Also, of the six pins I sold last year, every single one was to a person who barely posts here, and all of them were great to deal with. The vast majority of pinball players and collectors will have an account here but barely post. I know when I meet other players/collectors in real life, 9 times out of 10 it's "yeah, I have an account there, but I don't post much." There's other ways to get to know the buyer, like trade full names and addresses and talk on the phone.

TheSaint025 Sent you a PM. I kind of felt the way you did originally and made a similar post on here about 6 months ago. I received a ton of great information, some of which I passed on to you. Much of it was from the same helpful individuals who have also responded to you here. But as a relatively new owner (who felt like you probably do now) my best advice is to not get discouraged. I think it took me 7 or 8 tries before I found someone that was willing to work with me. I took the advice I received and applied it as I kept trying to make deals. Not too long ago I started a thread similar to yours and now I have 4 to play every day!

Good luck and looking forward to seeing your photo when you get your first!

Kevin D.

Regardless of age of member, what one if offering vs what another believes it’s worth, simple basic communication can go a long way. “I’m not interested “. I prefer not to ship”. “Your offer is too low”. Doesn’t take long to type a few words just to let another know you got the message and do not wish to move further.

If sellers don't want to ship that's certainly their prerogative, but I do have to say that most of the time the people against shipping have no idea how it works.

You or the buyer will either email or call the shipper with the details of to and from addresses and phone numbers. They'll then try to find a day for your pickup, or get back to you with that. When they come to pick up they do all the wrapping (and they all do a great job) and haul it out themselves. Everyone from STI to private shippers are also insured, because they could be taking a huge risk if not.

Here's what shipping usually entails as a seller:

Open the door when they get there.
Offer coffee or water.
Watch them wrap.
Open the door when they leave.
Wish them a nice day.

I don't think it's the actual act of people leaving with the game that concerns anyone, but all the potential post-leaving risk. Something breaks or is damaged, they try and charge back the money, they claim the game isn't as advertised, etc. If someone wants to send a shippper with cash I'm all for it and the buyer can assume 100% of the risk. Until then, come see the game in person, let's go through it all together, play it and take the glass off and make sure you're happy with it and you know what you're getting and load it up and go.

I've got no problem selling to someone new to the site or pinball in general, but once the game leaves my driveway I never want to hear about it again.

... get a phone call from the buyer a week later "this doesn't work/wasn't what I was expecting?!"

The shipper is not the buyer. I want the buyer to see the game, be able to play it, ask questions and be satisfied the game is what they want before money changes hands and the machine is loaded up.

I do not have any issue shipping per se. People who ship dont want to get F’d. So they want a secure form of payment that isnt going to be held or taken back. But here’s the rub. BUYERS want the same thing. So are reluctant to use a method they feel doesnt protect them as they are worried they are the ones who are going to get taken. A seller wants cash, wire transfer, check (and wait for their bank to tell them the funds actually cleared). Don’t even get me started on paypal F&F. If you think that is secure you are fooling yourself.

Buyers are more reluctant to agree to that. They want to use paypal of zelle or other methods whose payment terms are not advantageous to the seller. If you have never read their terms and conditions i really encourage you to do so.

As for the bazillion questions from a newb comments - Its not surprising this happens when you think about it. Go watch any youtube video on advise for buying a pinball machine. Someone needs to make an honest one - act fast bring cash and don’t fuck around as there is someone else who is prepared to do just that right behind you!!

I get that, but at the same time, I don't know how you know your buyer will be less of a pain in the ass post-sale just because they hauled the machine away themselves. A person who also knows where you live.

Every method is a little research, a little risk. I certainly never want to lose money, but you could lose more than money when inviting strangers into your house. Which I've done plenty of times as well.

Try not to take it personally. It can be difficult to get someone to ship a machine if they dont want to. I have missed pins due to this as well. Now I try to keep my search to within driving range. You will find one you are looking for in your area eventually. Or, you will find someone willing to work with a shipper. Good luck though! Its a marathon, not a sprint.

The big "gotcha" with your approach is this...if you pack, then the shippers can't see/verify the condition of the game for insurance purposes (which means they are off the hook for any damage). The optimal approach is to take photos at the time of pickup before the game is packed. Whenever I'm shipping, I supervise the packing (to make sure they do a complete job). If they don't have corner boards, say, I provide them.

I just shipped 4 of my games cross country and they marked pristine games as chipped/scratched/etc...they do this to protect themselves from damage. It's fraud. Fortunately, they aren't too smart, because the games I shipped had 0 flaws and all of them were marked down as having many flaws (which shows the fraud they are committing). One of my games had a 1" chip in the cabinet which I'm now submitting a claim for. If they try and say the game was marked down with a chip, I'll have to put their nose in the descriptions for the 3 other flawless games that they marked down as chipped/scratched/etc. Unfortunately, my son (who was the sender) neglected to take photos before the pack. Lesson learned (which is why I'm sharing it here...might help someone down the road).

I always do. Pictures before I pack it and after, texted to the buyer. No problems so far.

Some people have bad communication skills, I’ve been here a short time and have bought 3 games in 2020 from Pinsiders. Shipped across country and local pickups. PayPal and cash on glass transactions. All great experiences and I suppose it depends on the seller but I have nothing negative to report. Communication is key!

Because it is way easier to defend and hold the line when the buyer did the re sale inspection themselves. They had the opportunity to inspect, raise any points, or make assertions then... while both parties are present. They can’t blame anyone but themselves if they didn’t do something.

That’s the one that I pm’d you about. I guess it’s sold now.