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It's comical how this country has turned into a pile of people offended by everything. It's OK for people to have a different opinion then you. The basic principals the United States was founded on for some reason seems to have been lost over the last 10 years.
Quoted from bkerins:Multiple moderators have been in this thread, reading all its comments along with:
- a photo of bikini Jell-O wrestling
- a photo of a man thrusting into a woman while she's playing pinball
- a personal photo of a pinball player with multiple comments about her looks, including someone referring to what he thinks is her "plastic surgery boob job".
Multiple moderators have looked at all this, and have said "sure, this is acceptable". Seriously?
As @cait001 said, this is really sad.
To be fair it's a guy and girl jello wrestling and the girl is kicking the guys ass. The man thrusting is a well known scene from the movie Bad Santa which is hilarious if you haven't watched it. I agree that the comments about the girl at the show were harsh . She's a pretty girl and can have whatever surgery she likes. At the same time people have a right to not be into that and to be able to say what they want if you are going to put your self out there with picture on the web. Should they be rude about it, probably not but it's far from a crime. I think it does break the pinside rule of being nice though. The rest of the thread is light harted silliness with a bunch of goofy male part jokes that most confident women are not going to be phased by and are more likely to laugh at then be offended. My wife's favorite game is scared stiff and she also seems to enjoy playing xenon a lot. People need to lighten up.
Quoted from benheck:"Women want guys with money and pinball"
I'm sad to report this stereotype doesn't work for short, balding out of shape gingers.
Get you some Trump hair. The ladies will love it.
Quoted from Rockytop:I don't take myself too seriously and enjoy the blessings in my life.
It's hard for me to understand those that seem to be perpetually offended by everything. It seems like there is a lot of bitterness and anger there.
I'm offended by your happiness.
Quoted from jwilson:There is a general tone on Pinside that consists of older gentlemen that harbour opinions and ways of expressing themselves that disparage or objectify that which is different, be it women, gays or people who play videogames. I would say that most of the people doing this aren't even aware of the effect that tone has on others, so when presented with it, dismiss it out of hand as "people need a thicker skin."
A growing population of pinball enthusiasts - not just women, gays or people who also play videogames - find this tone objectionable, since ultimately it has nothing to do with pinball and has a tendency to drag discussion down into baser topics and gross-out contests that wouldn't be out of place in high schools. They want pinball to be better than that.
I thought the Basement was a good compromise between the two groups - instead of outright banning such locker room talk, which isn't a great solution because censorship is bad m'kay, put it in a place that isn't visible from Google or casual views. If you want to be gross, you can go there and giggle all you want about fart jokes, and leave the main board for purely pinball discussions. The SJWs can just not go there, everyone's happy.
Unfortunately the reality is that it still leaks out into the main site. If we could get some consistency on keeping this stuff down there, I think everyone would be a lot happier.
Sorry, but this is a complete load of crap. Most people do not say anything about how they feel because PC police will label them as sexist, racist, homophobic, or worse for any opinion they have. There is not a growing population of the Pinball community that feels like you do. It just happens to be the that small portion speaks the loudest and quickly attacks anyone with an opinion different then them. If you notice the group you speak of is all old guard people much more then new blood from the last few years.
Quoted from iceman44:Wtf does what anybody is saying have to do with how its taken by "less privileged" people. I don't get it.
I'm a redneck hillbilly and i have many friends in "low places". Because that is where the whiskey drowns and the beer chases my blues away.
I'll protect my girls because I love them, would do anything for them and believe that family and friends are what its all about in life.
This thing has gone way off the rails!
You are not doing it right. They need to discuss how you are wrong so they can feel better about themselves.
Quoted from cait001:Lots of people are scared by the changing world and standards and lash out that things are different.
Likewise lots of people who face various forms of systemic oppression are finally finding a voice and demanding to be heard. There will be inevitable clashes at that intersection of Fear Of The New and old lived pains being voiced.
Let's all try and navigate it with empathy and grace and not toss around labels like SJW to shut others up.
The changing world does scare the hell out of me. Not because of race, religion, politics, sexual orientation, etc. But because the world is turning into a pile of entitled lazy asses that think the world owes them something. You can literally watch people getting stupider and lazy over time. Most people literally know nothing about the world, past or present and get their information from social media. Food is a great example. It is required by you to live but 99% of the population has no clue how it is farmed or where it is coming from. Most of all, people just do not care. They are more concerned with attacking social issues that are blown so far out of proportion it is crazy.
If you are really concerned about making the world a better place take on some real issues like pollution, global warming, alternative fuels, species conservation, world poverty, cancer research, etc. If everyone would just be polite to others and work together to tackle real problems we might actually get somewhere. Instead we spend our time and money trying to rewrite simple understandings like if you have a penis you go in this door. Vaginas go in this door. If you happen to be one of the few people on the planet with both then I have no problem with you going in what ever you associate with.
As for why pinball guys are getting the women. Dorks are in right now and let's all face it. It's better to have a dork with some money then one with none. It also helps that the pinball community is full of great people that would give you the shirt off their back. Sometimes nice guys don't finish last.
Quoted from iceman44:The world is "tailored" to anybody and everybody. It's littered with success stories of all sorts of people with different backgrounds, race, diversity, etc. No excuses
Is it perfect? No. I go with the flow, and try not to take myself too seriously. I like getting along with everybody, including you.
I have the ability to listen and see both sides of the issues, some people are simply closed minded to anything other than what they believe.
I think this is very well said. Life will never be fair or perfect. However in united States everyone has a chance to be a self made success. It takes hard work, working to improve and learn every day, and trying to surround yourself with good people that can offer helpful advice when needed. I'm guessing the Pinball community has more of these success stories then the vast majority of hobbies. People born in the US should be very thankful for the freedom and opportunities they have.
Quoted from jwilson:That's a pretty definitive statement you're making there!
When I started collecting pinball machines back in the 90's, I knew *four* women in the entire community - one was a local operator, three were people who show up to Expo. Everyone else, except one or two people, were white guys. Like, 99% white guys.
Last month I played in a league that was 50% women.
The fact that you haven't noticed it also speaks to the issue here.
How does having more women change anything. It's just a bunch of people playing Pinball. My statement was no more definitive then yours. You act like you are breeding change and acceptance and the rest of us are cavemen. We had a game night last weekend and it was 5 guys and 3 women. Amazingly none of the women ever were offended, mistreated, or clubbed and drug off to a bedroom by their hair. Everyone had fun and enjoyed themselves. Maybe I'm not looking at people and defining them as black, white, male, female, etc. They are just people playing Pinball to me.
Quoted from jwilson:Well, those women felt comfortable to come out to those recent league nights and play because none of the guys were "mansplaining" things, giving them unwanted shoulder rubs, telling them to "smile" or grabbing their asses - all things that have happened to women I know at pinball events in the past.
I'm sure none of the guys who did those things saw a problem with it either.
I don't know anyone that would treat a woman like that and 99℅ of the people at shows are great. The 1℅ are equal a holes to men and women alike. Any one doing that should have gotten arrested and any of the bystanders not doing anything should be ashamed.
Quoted from jwilson:So it never happened, I guess?
Okay, I'm done.
I'm sure it did, but why would people know about it and not do anything.
Quoted from PavBall:Not entirely correct Mr. TigerLaw. I do think some guys when explaining the rules to ladies may explain them differently than they would to one of the guys.
Possibly this is because a lot of the ladies are less seasoned in pinball in general but I always roll my eyes when I ask about the rules of a machine and a guy acts like I've never played pinball before, which absolutely happens.
I'm not offended by this, but I do note you are not correct as it happens from time to time.
When this happens play stupid like you have never heard of such complex rules before and then play them in a 2 player game and kick their ass.
Quoted from jwilson:Hopefully people stop talking about hitting women, even in jokes.
30 years ago it was normal to call people you don't like "fags". Thankfully that's significantly changed thanks to people being called out for that shit.
I don't think any rational person will not agree with you that racial and other hateful slurs are not needed in society. But it is OK to joke about big issues and lighten the mood sometimes. Not everything is life is black or white and many people need to not take themselves quite so serious. I think you make many good points but I also think you are assuming you know what iceman's wife wants from him in their relationship. Some women cherish space and independence, others may cherish being protected and feeling safe, others live for work, others live to be at home raising children and running a family. If men are often guilty of one thing it is assuming we know what women want. The fact is you have no clue what his wife wants and your judgments about his family really cross the line.
Quoted from pezpunk:i'm really not clear why you think using British slang to refer to a Vagina would be any less insulting to women, if the term was being used to mean weakness. the point is the people you are demeaning with your casual sexism, not the actual words themselves.
Do you get as equally upset when a woman calls someone a Dick? Or is that empowering instead?
Quoted from pezpunk:I don't care if people use "dick" as a derogatory term because dudes are in a position of privilege in Western society and none of them actually feel demeaned by the term. Any that claim to are only doing so in order to construct disingenuous attacks on feminism. Be honest.
And we have finally gotten to it. You are either a complete hypocrite to your own cause or you are not fighting for equal rights at all. So you want to swing to pendulum to the other extreme so you can correct the wrongs of the world? Lots of really scary people in history had similar philosophies.
You are assuming that all men would not be offended. You are also assuming that all women feel oppressed and need your help which I can promise you many would laugh at.
I'm still trying to figure out why we wouldn't get the women? All they have to do is read this thread to see how cool we all are 
Being completely honest it depends on who call me a Dick and how it is said and who said it. In some cases I would find it very hurtful. In others I would call them an ass and we would laugh and play some pinball.
In some ways you are right that it is purely academic. But it other ways not so much. I have had cases were I could not hire the most qualified candidate because the company I was at was "short on minorities". In one situation an extremely hard worker that deserved a promotion was passed on because I was not allowed to hire the deserving candidate because the company had hired 3 straight males in other management positions that were not in my departments. So someone did not get a major raise and promotion because they were a white male. It can go both ways sometimes. There are women and people or many different races using this to there advantage. I don't really have a problem with that, they are just playing the hand they are dealt and doing it really well.
If you want to be honest there are lots of reason why pinball has more males then anything else. Men are crazy about hobbies. We all have tons of them. Men love to tinker and fix things. Men love mechanical things and taking things apart and putting them back together. Men love to collect things. And the list can go on and on. It's not all that different then classic cars. Sure there are women involved in both hobbies but both are men dominated. Hobbies like that are geared towards how our brains work. It would be like asking why is scrap booking so damn women dominated. Where are the men made quilts?
Quoted from trunchbull:It's all social and has nothing to do with mental chemistry. Plenty of women love cars and mechanics, but right from the very start we're very specifically laying out for them the "this or that" of gender. Boys get tool sets, girls get dolls. Boys wear blue, girls wear pink. Why? It's an irrational and entirely made-up set of rules ("blue and pink" is a recent invention, too) that has nothing to do with anything besides the pre-decided cultural norms. Plenty of men quilt and plenty of women tinker, and if we weren't constantly telling children that one thing is bad and the other is good because they have a penis or a vagina then we'd have way more equality in jobs and hobbies.
The briefest summary of this is when my supervisor told our manager she was hiring a male housekeeper, and our manager, a guy, scoffed and said "that's interesting, but okay". Why is housekeeping necessarily a woman's job? What about changing a bed and vacuuming is "for women"? It's all made up.
I'm completely open to any gender doing any job. I'm more concerned about if they are qualified and can do the job. I do think men and women are naturally better at different things and more inclined to like certain things though. Doesn't mean a man can't rock an awesome quilt and a women can't build build an awesome hot rod though. We are different and that's OK.
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