That's just weird to me. Just sayin.

Others have nailed it pretty well. But there is one reason which hasn’t been mentioned:

People start playing, collecting, refurbishing, based on excitement and perception, brought on by some event (pinball show, a friend introduces them to tournament play, etc). They project onto their hobby some unreal expectations. Under these circumstances, it is obvious that their interest would wane.

A better question might be, what keeps people IN the hobby?

I love playing pinball...

Been doing that for 45 years now. I don't see myself leaving the hobby.
Giving up my collection, assuming a nice barcade opens close to my house with perfectly maintained pins? Why not.
But giving up playing... no.

My home brew honey bourbon would disagree with that....what's that honey? ..... yeah be right with ya.......

1. That's why you dig here and whenever possible contribute sound, helpful, and logical advice with pictures, diagrams or videos if possible. Some people here are REALLY good about that. Standout example to me is pinsider, Zaza. Look at this stuff he makes for us:

Breaks down the digital logic to some of the ICs on the cpu/mpu board on a WPC 95:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/wpc95-rev-9-u27#post-3548560

He helps someone get their HS2 sorted out:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/wpc-cpu-problem#post-3774140

Dude, look at this - 29 posts and he helped the OP of the thread bring this Popeye back to life:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/i-killed-popeye/page/2#post-3862291

He is a exemplary member that contributes at an incredible level and is very quiet about it.

Then you have people here that sure as hell aren't quiet and contribute nearly nothing except trolling and bragging about their x > $50k collections. Whoopie, your checkbook knows no limits. I'm so impressed.

2. Another thing to help increase general tech knowledge is paying $20 one single time and getting access to Pinball Ninja's website. Man, the level of info there is astounding for such a minimal fee. If people are paying $500 for toppers that look like something from Fisher Price, $20 for that sea of knowledge is a flipping no brainer.

Pinball machines are going to run as good as you keep them. They are like classic/specialty/exotic cars: they will run as good as you are willing to pop the hood or have the pockets to send them to specialists.

That's why I couldn't care less for all the bitching, whining, complaining , trolling that goes on here with so many "blow hard" threads. Anyone can do that. Show me how to test a transistor for proper operation, how to determine if the connection from the wire connectors to the U"X" chip on the mpu board in an TAF are sound, how to properly perform board repairs with the right equipment and techniques, how to systemically trouble shoot a WPC 5v reset issue rather than "shotgunning the problem" with parts, etc.

That's the shit that matters, not "what's Sterns next title even though the newest game announced hasn't even shipped yet".

Have no problem saying that my thread drain button is strong. If it wasn't, I would have left a long time ago.

It was more of a pride thing. Proud of what hard work can bring that sort of thing. I don't think there is anything weird on being humble about that. I put a lot of hard work , time and money into some beautiful machines that I would like to marvel at.

Trust me I have , several occasions pinside has helped out a ton on fixing issues. It's just I had gotten to a point where nothing was working and I did get a professional tech to work on my machines locally and couldn't figure out what was wrong. I sought out help here as well and haven't been afraid of asking for it.

+ 1 x 100 Zaza has been a fantastic help to me in the not so distant past and a true gent

You have to remember though, that some people just have no inclination to do repairs. They just don't care to learn either, it's just not their bag. Not everyone is mechanically inclined.

Pinside and the RGP archives are invaluable resources for me when I have a weird problem I can't figure out. Google it as plainly as you can and 9/10 you'll find an answer.

As far as people leaving the hobby, this is what I've seen ...

1: A "well off" guy decides he wants a pinball machine ... he gets on the internet and sees Medieval Madness is the number one machine on IPDB. So he tracks one down and pays overs for it (because nobody will sell one unless they get crazy money) After a month, that gets boring so he tracks down #2 on the list, AFM. That gets boring after a month, now he wants an Addams. And so on. Now he's got 6 "A grade" machines. The problem is, if you start at the top, and you've had all the so-called "best" games, most people won't/can't go backwards and get a cheap game because it isn't good enough for them. Eventually they get bored, and the wife starts nagging about the space they take up, and the games appear back on the market.

Whereas if you start at the bottom (my first game cost $150..) there's always something better to get, and I think you appreciate the different eras more.
Car-analogy: if your first car is a Ferrari, you're unlikely to be buying a Fiat 500 any time soon.

2: some guys also get into the hobby, all guns blazing ... then 12 mths later they're bored and they move on to the next hobby. Then 12 months later, they'll be doing something else. Some people are just that way inclined ... I know some guys that have had more hobbies than I've had hot dinners. Their garage is filled with kayaks, camping gear, car parts, mountain bikes ... all gathering spiderwebs.

rd

You wife is not alone.
https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2014/10/buy-experiences/381132/

I think Stern just put a stop to the money train with their last price increase, feature decrease on SW. JJP did the same thing with their Dialed in LE and CE......heard the out cry and tried to make a Standard. Stern just purely shot themselves in the foot with their SW LE. Sure the rich folks couldn't give a shit. But the passionate bottom feeders like myself saw the Pro and where stunned (stung). Now I think the pro sucks feature wise and I don't think I can bring myself to buy a premium.

Hence the "I'm looking elsewhere". And even when looking elsewhere you've got some people asking stupid money for titles from the 90's that are barely shopped.

I rarely post on here these days and I don't play anymore (I'm separated and my games stayed with her ), but I never really consider myself "out" of the hobby. I'll always be into pinball on some level for the rest of my life. Eventually I want to get a game or two in my new place. Unfortunately it's just not workable at the moment.

I was thinking about the price increases on the older games, not an operator so I would never buy a nib. Here is an example right on this thread. I would love to get this game, but for $2,800 no way.

Screenshot_2017-07-22-10-44-52 (resized).png

That would be a great thread. I'd start it but it's your idea. Post it up.

Drop us a link when you do UltraPeepi that sounds like a fun topic!

Looking back, I may have come across accusing you of not contributing. Definitely not meant to be the case. Hope that was not taken that way. If it was, absolutely not the intended tone from me <3.

Your points are valid, and I agree with your perspective, but that really just baffles me. That's like having a marriage and then expecting it to "just run itself". You're getting into a SERIOUS commitment. Getting married isn't the hard part, staying married and happy IS (hey, least it's not a car-parison).

To me, buying pinball machines and doing repairs is a given; they are not mutually exclusive - they WILL go down and you WILL either learn how to fix them, have deep pockets/friends who will know how to fix it, or sell it and get burned out and leave the hobby.

Pinball machines are like other niche hobbies: old firearms, classic cars, owning unique timepieces - repairs and upkeep come with the territory. Even the brand new ones break, heck, sometimes x < 2 weeks in nowadays.

And please do not get me wrong; I have no where near the level of knowledge as the "old timers" that I really miss used to be regulars here. If I had to call in an expert (spoiler alert: here in the Florida panhandle there are none [at least not hobbyists that will do it on the side to make cash on the side]), I'd be done in this hobby.

Anyone on the fence with the hobby should consider watching the new Spooky Pinball doc.
That may put it all in perspective and reset why you love pinball in the first place.
Great stuff.

I think cars would make a better analogy than a marriage. When I was young, I bough shitty cars, and spent way too much of my time working on them. I didn't enjoy it, and would have rather paid someone to do it, but couldn't afford it. As I got older, I bought cars that were a little more reliable, and had to work on them less. At that point, I stopped doing oil changes and brake jobs, because I could afford to pay to have those done.
Now, I buy new cars, and take them to the shop when something breaks. If they start needing too much work, I will trade it in and buy a new one.
This mirrors pins for me now. I can work on them, but I absolutely hate doing it. I would pay someone to do it, but can't find anyone locally. My oldest pin is gnr, and there is a transistor that needs to be replaced because an insert light isn't working. I may sell it before fixing that. I didn't mind troubleshooting to find where the problem is, but really don't want to messs with pulling the board. I may sell it to get a new game that should in theory not need any work done on it for a while. If stern remade gnr, I would definitely buy it. I am only buying new pins now. They need a little maintenance once in a while, but for the most part, they just work. I would still pay someone to do the little fixes and clean and wax them once in a while though, if I could find someone to do it.

I guess some might consider leaving the hobby after a vasectomy.

The last thing you want to do when playing pinball is shoot blanks.

Most people who are not shooting blanks can't afford pinball.

Remind me to bring some lock down bars...or sanitizer when I stop by to play your games.

I call BS-Nobody leaves the hobby!

I agree with Lloyd- The only way out is to die. People may take time off or step back but once you have been bitten there is no cure.

P.S. If anyone has discovered a cure for this disease, please let me know

Excuse me.jpg

For me it had nothing to do with Beelzboob, we just came back from vacation.

I suspect higher prices, overspending, making the hobby a business, making the games about competition and scoring rather than fun, and reading too much of the negativity and taking it too serious are ways people end up ejecting themselves from the hobby.

I'm not out, but I've scaled way back. Sold half my games, haven't read Pinside in weeks, honestly not playing much. Tomorrow I'm going to go work on some rare games, and I'm looking forward to it and seeing people from my league, but it's more of an occasional thing than all the time now.

New games are just too expensive, the value sucks, can't really justify the costs anymore. There are some old games I'd still like to own, but again the price jacking is kinda hard to swallow. And I'm in a sell-to-buy situation when it comes to space, so I gotta want something enough to give up games I've narrowed my collection down to.

I've got some decent value games like ACDC Prem that I could sell to get something I wanted, just haven't seen that game yet. I might need a TNA, we'll see!

Like Rarehero I've gone back to my retro game roots, Street Fighter especially, and honestly I really enjoy that the fighting game community isn't majority rich white dudes. Pinball has a real diversity problem, and not just age, skin color, and financial worth, but culturally. FGC is amazing comparatively, it's a real breath of fresh air. I just got back from Evo, and it was amazing.

And let's be blunt, working with Heighway kinda burned me out on pinball a lot, both the internal mess, and the garbage I get from people over it. I've got a list of people who can go f—k themselves over the treatment I've received. And with how much of it was utterly out of my control I just don't feel like eating that shit anymore.

Even with putting people on ignore and draining threads I've already seen it just stopping by today. Can't really see any reason to keep inviting that negativity in my life, after I catch up on what's going on today I'll probably take another Pinside break.

Do we know each other?

Sad to hear it man...it's been nice chatting with you over the last few years. Even though I couldn't make it down to your humble abode last time, I kept your number so I'll swing down next time I'm out visiting my sis or in the LA area.

Lucky I have a couple of these.....

Funny, I left a hobby I had done most of my adult life when I started buying pinball machines instead.

Cars, trucks, and four wheel drives. When gas hit 4 bucks a gallon, I had had enough. Got rid of all that junk except my Tacoma which I still have.

Pinball machines are a lot like cars, but no wheels, no tires, no oil, no filter, etc, etc. etc.

Number 1 reason. Prices, Prices, Prices.

i laugh when i see people mention money as the reason they leave

you dont need to buy the latest Stern LE or have a collection of A list games to enjoy this hobby

Well you do when you're the kind of person that would quit because of prices

Even the "cheap" games are $2000-4000 these days...which, ya know....isn't cheap!

I just got Splatoon 2 for $60.

"Cheap" pinball is still expensive to most people.

You're not buying games on Pinside are you?
I picked up my Royal Flush for a couple hundy not too long ago...sold a Far Out for handful of hundys.

EDIT:

I get your obsessed with videa games now, but pinball cheap insn't that expensive for pinball people. Or hell moderate pricing.

beelzeboob, did you think this thread would run to 6 pages?

Games are very expensive. We should all consider ourselves fortunate to be able to own these types of games. That said lets take care of our customers. Private sale person to person or if you are a major manufacture. JJP or Stern etc. We do not know the financial status of our customers and even if people can afford a bad deal they should not have too. Stand behind your products. If you have blown boards splitting cabinets or ghosting playfields. DO THE RIGHT THING! Make it right don't think that it is ok to pawn something off on someone. The customers are afraid that they will spend a lot of money on a game that turns out to be defective and it is worth a fraction of what they paid for it. If its a bad game so be it. What I think is bad is someone else's favorite. That is what makes this hobby cool. You should be able to play a new game for a while and sell it a year or two later only losing 10 to 20 percent of what you paid for it. Only to roll it into a new game purchase and start the cycle all over again. However if you have a split cabinet or a ghosting playfield that is not the case. Even if your game was not effected the bad name alone is enough to destroy the sale. Manufactures if you are reading this only you can keep this very cool hobby alive.

IMG_0778 (resized).JPG

I just played for four hours yesterday. Only cost me about 5 bucks. Not counting the beer.

Because Gexchange can't spell Pinburgh correctly ... (he spells it Pinburg). Dumas

I got you. Besides house, food, and transportation, we spend a ton of money on gymnastic and dance lessons for the kids. I have five and I told my wife the one thing I don't ever want to scimp on is activities for the kids, even though that means no pin for me, for now.

However, last weekend I went back home to visit the folks and discovered an arcade that wasn't there before. I fed a bunch of quarters in Aerosmith, Kiss, and the Hobbit, which I had not had a chance to play yet.

I beg to differ

Would this be a reason to leave the hobby?

I think this is a really good point. And, something else I find interesting, the people who I have known in the hobby the longest are people who tend to not post here much.

I don't mean that as any way a knock on Pinside in any way, but I think that it some ways this comes on because those people who have been around for a long time really know a lot of how things work and what things do, and a site like Pinside tends to regurgitate a lot of the same information. I mean, I haven't been posting lately or reading lately, and when I stop by the majority of threads are things that I have already talked about often before. And, there is this weird thing where often I find that if myself or others that have been around for a long time write a reply about something, our responses will often be dismissed more because we don't post as much.

Or, as some people know I love, because I "only own 2 games."

I think to really stay *in* the hobby, you need to find a local support group and a few people who are really your collecting "mentors" if you will. Ones that will talk with you honestly about what they think of a game, what a game price should be, will pass on deals to you when they find them and aren't interested and who you do the same back to. When you get that, it feels like a community.

Just because of what Pinside is, you've got a TON of people and there is no easy way to do that. If I tomorrow wanted to sell a game and posted it, if it was $1000 under the going rate, people would hop on it to flip it or whatever. And of course they would, it's the internet, why not?

But, even in the last few years, I have had people who knew I was looking for certain games find one and text or call me to say hey, I'm here and they have this game you mentioned you want, it's this price, do you want it? I had a friend relatively recently sell me a BSD for what most people would say was a STUPID good price because he told me I'd have first crack at it at that same price about six years ago when he got it, and he came through with his word. When (I suppose if, as I LOVE that game) I go to sell it, I would pass it on to a friend first for about the same price before listing it here or whatever for way more.

Having that sort of personal relationship is what keeps me in it. I still love to think and share pinball, and I do still come here when I can and enjoy it since I ignore most of the weird stuff, but I think that is what is hard to cultivate if you don't start it somewhere else first.

Unlike you lucky Americans most people in Canada think their shit is absolute gold. Sure I could go get a EM from the 70's and now they are nearing the $1500 mark. Or get a Apollo 13 for $5K CDN... I mean we are talking about AP13 here not Ripleys. No matter which angle you are looking at it. Prices are insanely stupid right now.

I was really waiting for Star Wars and Stern managed to mess it up (at least in my opinion) on these fronts.

1) no interactive toy on the pro (the tie fighter doesn't count)
2) price increase
3) no shaker motor included on Prem / LE
4) price difference between pro and Prem/LE is now bigger

Am I out? Nope.... I like pinball. Am I out for now....absolutely. Until the manufacturers take their heads out of their ass I'm speaking with my wallet.

So, when are we doing this? Come down to my cigar club and let's light a few up!