I've made in depth comments on this subject before, but for now...

Two main reasons that people don't like WOZ:

1) No left ramp

2) They don't like Jack, or something he said, or his methods, his speeches, his bravado, his factory, etc.

I find it hilarious that these WOZ opinion threads are always dominated by those who don't own a WOZ. Always.

I don't know if any recent pinball title which has garnered as much consistent groupie-like negative attention from those who don't own the game and have declared that they don't wish to own it. I already knew the posters who I'd find in this thread before I clicked on it, and I already knew their opinions from the 500 other WOZ opinion threads they've voiced their displeasure for Jack and WOZ in.

Next time, someone cut this off on Page 1 by linking the last thread all this happened in, where the same individuals posted the exact same opinions (again).

And yet, the real minority is the dozen or so groupies that follow WOZ threads around like a TMZ camera follows Charlie Sheen.

I find it predictably funny, and yet to those who haven't read the WOZ opinion threads over the past two years, it may not be as easy to decipher.

Are you sure YOU'RE comfortable with your own sexual orientation? LOL

You seem to be absolutely fixated on a small sub-culture surrounding elements of the motion picture, along with code words, phrases and things most of us have never heard of. And you've repeated them in multiple threads at this point (I read your same "Friends of Dorothy" thing in multiple threads, something I've never heard of).

Just sayin

This goes back to exactly what I said earlier in the thread. You see, you try to come up with real criticism of the game, like "LCD screen just doesn't seem right" and vague criticisms like that which don't make any sense, but you give yourself away very easily with the only real substance of your posts: the in depth rants on Jack and his company.

Some people can't actually separate the game from the man. For the most part, this thread could almost be renamed "Why do people hate Jack?" and the complaints would make as much (if not more) sense.

If you look at the contributions of certain repeat posters in this thread who post no substance whatsoever (constant homosexual references and jokes, emocion spam, etc) they were always going to turn this, and any, WOZ thread into a train wreck because of the animosity they have for the title and for Jack.

As I pointed out earlier, there are a handful of Pinsiders who basically have the same message on repeat and they've taken that on tour, following all the WOZ threads for the past couple of years, copying and pasting their negativity, over and over again with groupie-like obsession.

REALLY? Are you worried we didn't see it the dozen or so times you've mentioned it in this, and other, threads?

Obsessed much?

You aren't fooling anyone with your coy, innocent tone and tired little jokes.

All you're doing is simply being bigoted in a smarmy (Who me?) way. Very transparent and sad.

He's done nothing but be a nuisance in this thread, offering up only sexual orientation jokes and memes in a pinball discussion. I really don't think a pinball discussion thread needs any of that.

There are plenty of other places he can go to discuss all those things.

Huh? You quoted my reply to his sexual orientation meme joke. Since then, he proceeded to make 5-6 more posts in the same vein.

It's simply not on topic and not needed.

Well, if he is, then he's obviously cool with it being the big joke he's made it out to be, because he's forcefully interjected sexual orientation (and the jokes about it) into this thread, over and over again.

To me, his posts actually read exactly like a heterosexual making fun of homosexuality in a condescending way, hence my reply at the top of this page. If I read it wrong, my bad. But honestly, like I said, it's all off topic and has no place in a Pinside discussion anyway.

Of course, but most cannot separate the two.

It's an all-time classic movie. When you think about the films which were made at the time, there's no wonder it became a classic. The unmanly and gay references, and general overall spam, in this thread were perpetuated over and over by guys who hate JJP and the game, so they want to muddy the water and piss all over the thread instead of offering any real opinion or criticism.

It's refreshing to actually read a (gasp) well thought out opinion of the machine we are talking about! However, I do disagree with several points...

First of all, I think players need to think of the LCD as a DMD display, but bigger and colorful and more beautiful! Everything you're saying about the LCD is true of the DMD, right? In a DMD game, you need to cradle the ball to scroll through and see how many hits left, how many balls locked, etc.

The LCD isn't going to telepathically link to you, and guide you through the game. It's a display. You have to look at it for it to work. I think of the LCD as mainly for the spectators, but also being a little more fun to look at than the same old dots.

I understand this criticism. It's lessened dramatically if you install the lighting kit. But the inserts are overwhelmingly bright until you do, because the GI is extremely underpowered.

It's sort of like in Man of Steel, when he couldn't grasp all his senses as a kid and it was tripping him out. I think many players get his feeling initially when playing WOZ, because it's so bright and insert heavy. But really, you just need to let your eyes get used to the game and play it normally, as you would any other machine. When the insert is dark under the A-I-N but the R and B-O-W is lit, then you need to hit the A-I-N. Then the arrow flashes under the Twister ramp, it wants you to hit that. The B-A-L-L on the left. You hit the inserts until they stay solid, then you can start Crystal Ball. The witch raises up, lights up, and flashes in front of her when in that mode, you want to hit her then. It's no more complicated than any other machine, but as with the LCD, it's different and brighter and there's more of it, so it takes some getting used to.

Hmmm, so you'd rather a small black and white apron card with a few lines of text over a screen with a visual rule card, mapped out and animated? Again, I think it's the perception of what you're looking at. It's just a big colorful rule card, see dgpinball's post above, it's not exactly a tutorial. You don't have to write a report and bring it back to work. You aren't going to be quizzed on it. It's there if you want to know the basic rules of the game, otherwise ignore it.

You complain about not knowing what's going on, and yet complain when the machine tries to show you.

You hit everything in the castle for 10-15 minutes and didn't get Rescue MB? The machine you played has a problem. That's the only explanation. Rescue is easy to start, and the conveyance is in large letters on the screen: R-E-S-C-U-E... you have to spell it by getting a letter from the scrolling targets, or spotted a letter from the loop or saucer. Then the insert for break down the door will light, you hit the door and break it down, and then start the MB with the saucer. It's one of the more straightforward MB qualifications I can think of. And a pretty neat MB, too. You should play a working machine and fully experience it.

I'd argue that the reason you don't get a "ya I made it!" feeling when you hit a shot is because you don't know what's going on, going back to your earlier criticisms. I'd advise to not be overwhelmed, but to try to learn one or two major goals, and focus on them until you understand more about the game. When I learned to play ACDC, I picked a couple songs and learned how to play those, and suddenly the whole game sort of opens up, but the rules are still a little unclear to me...I learn something everytime I play ACDC. WOZ will require that same approach and learning curve for many players.

I totally get this. Some games aren't for everyone, and WOZ may not be for you. Thank you so much for giving an actual opinion on the game!! That's what I came into this thread to read, and unfortunately it's been mostly spam, jokes, and rants towards Jack.

Pinside is getting to be such a large community that it's becoming tiresome to wade through dozens of spam posts to find an actual post of value and substance, even if I mostly disagree with it! So thanks again, Flecom! If you are ever up this way, hit me up and I'll see if I can't get you on a WOZ with a lighting kit and help you have a little fun with the game.

So basically, following your logic, a pinball machine made in the late 70's has the same level of technology as WOZ.

Carry on WOZ Haters.... I'm sure all this makes sense to you.

I saw the Canasta references coming from a mile away, as soon as "groundbreaking" and "LCD" came up in a WOZ hate thread. LOL Right on cue, guys!

So we should not appreciate the WOZ display because a small Spanish company pumped out a remake of a 1980's single level game a few years ago, using a color LCD to show scores?

To suggest that WOZ has not taken pinball display to another level is just plain *stupid*. Yes, STUPID.

It's not that nobody else has ever thought to put a color display in a pinball machine. It's the way the LCD is incorporated into WOZ which is ground-breaking, the level of quality of the implementation and software. It's used in gorgeous animations which sync with the playfield lighting colors and rules to set a mood, create an atmosphere, and push the visual elements of pinball to another level.

OMG and now P2k, really? LOL You are reading right out of the WOZ Hate 2011 Handbook, following the procedure line by line...

P2k was 15 years ago, and obviously a completely different display implementation than WOZ. I'm sure you can see the difference right?

WOZ's display is used completely differently than P2k's, and honestly in the right way to appeal to as broad of audience as possible.

After the past 15 years of monochrome dots, a color LCD display has been put into the backbox, combined with a tiny color display put on the playfield, which allows for a completely unfettered mechanical playfield, while meshing theatrical cues, lighting, sounds and gorgeous animations into the game WITHOUT shortening the feel of the playfield and forcing players to stare at a video screen on the playfield while they play.

The fact that you felt the need to actually post pictures of P2k, as thought we all here aren't aware of how it looks, speaks volumes.

Is this the reaction you sought? "Holy crap!!! They made P2k?? It had a color display?? OMG OMG OMG OMG ...you blew my mind!"

Hehe. I'm not taking it personal. I'm just marveling at how obtuse WOZ haters actually are when trying to dismiss anything about the machine which has innovatively pushed pinball technology in this current market.

Gotcha. Read my earlier reply, which applies directly to your post.

Actually, here's your gorilla logic as applied to flippers: There's nothing truly innovative about the 'Italian bottom' because flippers were used on pinball machines for years before that.

True innovation can absolutely come from taking previously used technology and improving, upgrading, and implementing it in a much better way. That's what the WOZ display is.

Sure, they remade an incredibly ugly, single level game from the 80's and put a bunch of new features on it. And??? As I asked before, because they put a LCD in their backbox for scores, that now means NOTHING about how the LCD is used in WOZ can be described as innovative?

Wow. You guys really hate Jack. LOL I find it amusing.

Ok, you guys are right!!! WOZ is just the same old machine, looks the same, nothing new about it ALL! It's just the same old technology, same old pinball machine.

I'm in no way doing anything but laughing at you guys, actually.

Carry on, everyone. There's no reason to post anymore in this thread. I've already realized I'm only arguing with the same 4 haters for this entire thread. I'll just leave you 4 guys to your infinite wisdom of how WOZ has no innovation. (LOL)

Haven't looked at this thread in a week, but I see the WOZ Hate is still flowing through you guys.... LOL

If LTG's image doesn't cheer you guys up, I don't know what will. Coolest thing I've seen today. Try to enjoy life and pinball.

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