Wizard of Oz
Jersey Jack, 2013You're currently viewing posts by Pinsider iceman44.
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There is plenty to love about Woz, and most people that have actually played it for any period of time do....It's a great pin. If you don't own, you probably don't like it and with Woz haters feel the need to pound away non stop for the past 3 years, unlike any other pin.
Its the Jack factor that a lot of people don't like....
What is clear is that everybody has their own likes and dislikes and opinions. Just "opinions" good or bad. It has great "satisfying" shots implemented with game strategy in many peoples "opinion" including mine.
I love the non cookie cutter change versus left ramp right ramp and a spinner. Variation is great in this case!
Every pin can get repetitive. Haven't taken the cover off Acdc in 3 months
Quoted from RobT:No it doesn't.
Yes it does………whatever……the shots are very "satisfying"! SUBJECTIVELY……..And overwhelmingly so….. 
Anybody that has played it enough to know………take a look at my collection, Woz is the best "player" of the bunch, subjectively, now that's just my opinion, but hey, we know that "Rob's forum fanatic opinion" takes precedent on the Pinside papparazi, despite having inadequate gameplay on said pin….haha
In summary, Woz, KICKS ASS, sorry, it is what it is and if you don't like it, you don't know sh*t! Of course "subjectively"…..however, if you post non stop I guess you must know better? 
If you actually own a Woz you know, you love it! And no pin brings out the d*cks in force like Woz... Yes, Keith made it great…..
And yes, I take the crown of "ellipse king"……………..
Should have never started this ridiculous thread James, just extending the stupidity
Quoted from anonymatt:Yeah, WOZ isn't my thing, the shoes on the flipper weird me out. Whatever. It plays okay. It's no TZ. The rules are deep. I played about 20 games on it and it never seems like I have the same game. I'm alright, but most games feel like house games. I got multiball once. I catch on to rules alright, but honestly it's a surprise when the ball lock turns on. What I'm always thinking is "Well all the shots are kinda lit."
Play more on it! MB once? It needs a lot of time…….more you play, the more you love
Quoted from centerflank:Thanks BB! I will take you up on that if I ever get out East, you do know this niceness has improved your rating on the DB'ery scale right? I thought you were working for a worse one.
We have lots of DB's down south Flanker! You can come bang Dorothy all day if you ever make it down here... 
Quoted from PinballHelp:Peoples' opinions are subjective. But not all opinions are equally-informed.
We all have heard over and over how you don't like stuff. But the reason WHY you don't like things is lame and ambiguous, and that carries over into whether or not your opinion is more based on emotion and prejudice, than actual substantive knowledge and experience with the game.
So be it. We know where you stand. Yet you keep beating your own dead horse and flogging it for everybody else to see, yet you never share anything new or informative with people.
Wish I could have said it that well... 
Quoted from mechslave:I've made in depth comments on this subject before, but for now...
Two main reasons that people don't like WOZ:
1) No left ramp
2) They don't like Jack, or something he said, or his methods, his speeches, his bravado, his factory, etc.
I find it hilarious that these WOZ opinion threads are always dominated by those who don't own a WOZ. Always.
I don't know if any recent pinball title which has garnered as much consistent groupie-like negative attention from those who don't own the game and have declared that they don't wish to own it. I already knew the posters who I'd find in this thread before I clicked on it, and I already knew their opinions from the 500 other WOZ opinion threads they've voiced their displeasure for Jack and WOZ in.
Next time, someone cut this off on Page 1 by linking the last thread all this happened in, where the same individuals posted the exact same opinions (again).
Another good concise summary!
#2 far outweighs #1, left orbit shot is a fun and more challenging shot than the standard left ramp right ramp layout.
The opinions of people that "I played one ball and then walked away" or "i put 10 games on it and its just not for me" is worth about the little amount of time that they have on it.
Until you understand how the rules integrate with a pin, its really hard to judge. I've walked up to so many pins at Pinballz in Austin, put a few plays on them and walked away thinking what's the big deal? AFM, MM, MB and Tron to name a few. The more I understand them, the more I like them!
I hated my Lotr Le at first, now I understand why its a masterpiece. WPT and RS two more I bought after playing them enough to see what was there.
#3 would be that the "theme sucks", that I get for some people as a huge reason not to buy
Btw, I like the discussion, good and bad, like Tiger says, there is a Woz only owners thread for just the good stuff
Quoted from PinballHelp:I think you nailed it. This is a thinking, shooters game. To score well in WOZ you have to have a plan (or just get really lucky). This isn't a ramp-ramp-left-right-type game. It does not reward repetitive shots like many other machines.
+1
A "thinking, shooters game" best describes it. I like exploring the many different ways to play it. A Keith trademark.
Quoted from PanzerFreak:All what you and several others here do in a WOZ related thread is try to talk down the game, act like its a piece of crap with no interactive toys (or glance over the ones it has) and offers slow gameplay. It's been the same old copy and paste story for months on end now. Sorry but I'm not going to stop defending the game when you make a comment that undermines the game like that.
Go get em Panzer!
The Witch is as "interactive" and more importantly, integrated into the game rules as well as any "toy" out there, and I love my Balrog, registering hits on the witch is better, more strategic and more challenging.
Monkey mech is unique and "interactive".
You want to "bash something", castle doors.
Crystal ball and its video is cool, innovative and never been done to that extent before.
Spinning house is "interactive" with the LCD, like everything else, its also very cool.
LCD, see above, a game changer and the best "interaction" you can have in any pin, imho.
I paid $6500 for my Woz, and thankfully cancelled my STLE for $7800, which is HUGELY underwhelming, here's hoping TWD kicks ass!
3.0 makes it great.
Oh, and the mini play fields and integration thereof is awesome, unlike one of the best pins ever in Ac/dc which sucks and you try and avoid playing it and getting caught up in the boredom!
Bring on the Hobbit, TWD and Lawlor's game, let's go! Keep hammering Panzer, don't let em wear you down
I'm really looking forward to the Hobbit with a view to buying but WOZ is horrible. That's why I hate it."
It's ok to be misinformed on an opinion. Happens all the time here!
It's a shame gay and homophobic references have to be made re a pinball machine.
Quoted from Captain_Kirk:Got to play both Star Trek and WOZ at the TPF in March for the first time. I thought WOZ felt solid and was well built. The LCD was very nice in person. Other than that, it was kinda....boring. And the much hyped light showed paled in comparison to a Star Trek LE/Premium.
Stern got it right with Star Trek. When they went all color changing LED's, the did it the right way...in your face! One dominant, interactive toy and super fast flow. K.I.S.S.!
That being said, I do have high hopes for the Hobbit!
Try playing a few more games on Woz Captain Kirk it's anything but boring
Quoted from rommy:Dude I hope you are being facetious, or joking around. The wait will be nearly as long if not equal. Unless they start shipping TH before the WoZ are done - surely they would not do that.
I am on month 28 of waiting for my 2/2012 WoZ ECLE order. I expect TH LE wait to be around the same. Say 24-30? months from pre-order to delivery.
Sorry Romes. Jack has one line worker. They call him the one armed flash. 1 game per week. Production of Woz LE will continue well into 2nd half of 2015!
Quoted from cheezywhiz:I keep hearing this on pinside.. so I suppose I'll have to believe it. That's great news if the machine is earning well.
It just strikes me as odd since, in my experience, nearly all my pinball league friends and every casual/non-pinhead friend I've introduced it to have disliked the machine.
That's weird? Complete opposite of my experience and in line with top earner numbers 
Quoted from centerflank:This will be the real test that cannot be denied, if JJP isn't firing Hobbit's out the door at a furious pace the first few weeks-months they can contractually ship, there is something seriously wrong.
1000% agreed. If they don't come out of the chute firing on all cylinders like Stern does with their production, or at least a lot closer to it, its game over. NOBODY is going to put up with a 3 yr. wait again much less 6 months.
It's game time coming up baby, you can step up like the Spurs or flame out like the Heat! What's it gonna be.....
Quoted from vex:jjp should follow the pps model and have stern bang out thle games. shut down their underutilized factory in jersey and reduce overhead. say what you want about stern but they run circles around jjp in the production of games. if thle trickles out like the wozle debacle i fear game #3 will never be built.
Maybe all these guys should merge into one company and then we might actually have something!
Jpop, Keith, Ritchie, Lyman, Lawlor, Estes.........Stern's production facility, everybody else ("suits"), get TF out of the way!
Woz update, just did a pin review of all of my pins, 1 16 oz Coors Light per pin play, went through Lotr LE, Wpt, Nba FB, SM, Wh20, RS, Ac/dc and Woz…..
The votes have been tabulated and Woz is the winner because, yes its a great "player", and DOTS SUCK balls, its time to move on. Love the Lcd and interaction and I'm not sure if anybody mentioned this before but here is my biggest observation of my "pin a beer go"….
Woz has the most TOYS! 
I love all my babies…..hehe
Seriously, I love a good "Pin a beer go"…….Can I make it 2 rounds? Let's see……….
Did I say DOTS suck? I still have my old Atari and Intellivison boxed up……
Ohh, and btw, I'm gonna have one in honor of Jpop and try and visualize Raza and AIW, play it in my mind! At the turn, as I make my way to the back nine…..
Ok, just made the turn on number 13, starting to slow down a bit, but what I have realized in my "pin a beer go" journey is that I'm pretty much a world class pinball player. And I need to focus and get myself ready for the next Pinball World Cup. I have developed my sensory reflexes in such a manner that I'm not sure they can even be matched on any level. Kind of like that chick on Xmen keeping Wolvie from breaking his train of thought…...
Just got interrupted by the wife for Jack Bauer and 24…….to be continued…..maybe….probably!
Quoted from Pimp77:Urine.
Coors, It's the nectar of the gods! I have now put 24 in play, Jack just threw that bitch out the window and splattered her skull along with her kid! Maybe they can redo 24 with a "vault edition" that is a whole lot better and updated.
I'll take a new 24 that is fixed. No IM for me, yes on a 24.
Quoted from rotordave:Coors has so little taste, I don't even think it has urine in it.
It makes you wonder why Big and Little Enos wanted it so bad ....rd
image-274.jpg 145 KB
Come on RD, I still have a sixer left of Westies….is that you on your big adventure Mr. Enos? Which Cali bro is that?…..hehe
Quoted from zr11990:You know why light beer is like making love in a canoe?
Its fucking close to water.
That's why you can't be a "light weight" bitch when consuming….hehe, I do also like my other local nectar in Lone Star beer, its an acquired taste!
I'm a equal opportunity beer drinker, we'll see who is the last man standing when you make it this way!
Quoted from John_I:Can I get a Godwin for this thread? Sheesh.
Another fan of Duck Dynasty……awesome!
Quoted from PanzerFreak:Battle the Wicked Witch is definitely a tough wizard mode. I've reached the mode 3 times but each time drained one of the two balls and the mode ended. It sounds like the mode keeps going on your machine even if you lose one ball? I wonder if theres a difficulty setting for the mode I'm not seeing.
Didn't know about the timer after draining one ball?
I have gotten to the last shot about a half dozen times and blown it. Lots of brief screaming and cussing!
Quoted from TomGWI:I am amazed this thread is still going strong.
Lotta "hate" out there!
This thread will go on forever……..plenty of hate for 3 yrs running now.
Woz is great, despite theme, whiners/haters don't like Jack's actions and I can't blame them.
Quoted from lowepg:Cant stop the fanbois!!!!!
Can't stop the "haters" either lowepg!!!!! Us "fanbois" love it and ain't going nowhere despite the pin side papparazi drive by crowd aka "dirty dozen"
The incessant whining crybaby attitude is ridiculous but hey if guys like Panzer can get under guys like you and Rob's skin so bad that they should be "disallowed from posting" then hey, it's really all on you……good thing you are on board for the Hobbit, should be great too! Have another jack and coke
Quoted from DaveH:This is the world we have come to. Me agreeing with RobT and lowepg about something. Ratings are the worst way to rate a game. Years ago they were actually useful, but even then they included one star and 10 star ratings with no comments which are clear manipulation of the system. But it used to be that you could read the comments and get some insight into a game. However now those are manipulated as well. And that isn't a WOZ phenomenon as they both point out, that is how it is with every game, new and old. It seems more prevalent for the newer games, but it has been going on a long time. That is why the only rating that matters is playing the game and seeing what you think of it.
You can't control honesty and integrity with the ratings system, the lack thereof is just the nature of some people.
Maybe they should throw out the top and bottom 10% of the ratings, on the other hand, who cares, they are worthless, I look at the comments.
The only thing about playing the game and seeing whether you like is that it usually takes more than a few plays and that's where the comments are helpful, prior owners.
No pass for JJP again on pin #2, I don't think they will need it. Platform has been built and continues to be improved upon. Keith supposedly is a long ways down the road with code. And hopefully the alligator mouth won't keep overloading the hummingbird rear end in the future! It's now all about ACTION, no BS.
Next step, can they build the damn things fast enough!
Well they simply have to, because they need to sell more units to spread that fixed overhead out per unit. I assume Keith and certain others get paid a salary whether they sell 1000 units or 10,000 units a year. I don't recall if Jack owns the building or leases it?
Either way, I would guess that he is generating some big losses, not all cash, with depreciation expense and the like, and is using those losses to offset his other business profits so maybe, don't know, but losses early here isn't such a huge deal if they are being used to offset other gains. Obviously, that can't go on forever.
Bottom line is the pre payment model for Jack is dead after the Hobbit, imo. What incentive is there? Why not wait until you play it unless its a killer theme you just have to have no matter what or Lawlor blows it out!
I reserve pre payment for Jpop only now and how the updates and process flows with him. Plus, its truly limited at 125 pins. Of course, with a nod to the naysayers, that's if we ever receive them, right?
Quoted from lowepg:The thing that scares me a little about TH is the WoZ production issues dont really seem to have subsided.
If they get them cranked out faster then the line will have to shut down altogether before TH goes into production, I assume. They are plenty capable, back in Sept/Oct. time frame they were getting cranked out briskly!
People, including myself, will have little to no patience for future "slow rolling"…...
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Boerne, TX