For some reason WOZ brings people out. If you love the game you follow it, and if you hate the game you follow it more. It's a really interesting effect. If I dislike a game I usually don't follow it very much at all. I won't normally read Pinside threads about games I hate. But WOZ has a special power over people. For some reason disliking WOZ seems to make it irresistible. All you need to do is read the WOZ threads that have gone on here. Same people over and over that hate the game like moths to a flame.

Please don't close this thread down. I'm finding it very interesting. Yes, it has gotten into a bit of "back and forth" with people saying "nah nah" to others, but the discussion is also ongoing. The reason I'm finding it interesting is because at some point I want to hear people really drill down to the real question. What I'm seeing is that people are still giving reasons why the don't like the game. And of course that is a subjective matter. There are games I don't like that others do. My reasons are pretty obvious usually, I just don't like it. And that is enough. But the crux of the matter that nobody has answered yet is why pursue the game with such vigor after establishing that subjective opinion. That is the stuff I want to hear about here.

I was going to suggest leaving that out of this discussion a while ago. I don't want to see this thread get closed for that. Because really I'm still waiting to hear something. I'm hearing a lot about why people don't like the game. And every one of those opinions is valid. "I don't like an LCD in a pinball machine" is a valid point. But how does "I don't like LCDs in pinball games" turn into "I can't stand an LCD in YOUR game and I need to find every thread about that game and yell how much I hate LCDs"? That is the stuff I am hoping to hear about.

+1

I don't think that is what this thread is about at all. The real question is why those aspects cause people that don't like the game, and don't ever want to own the game to follow it so vociferously. If it was just the standard "blowing gas" it probably would have been shut down by now, but for the most part, it is a discussion... With a few insults, barbs, and inappropriate references added to incite argument more than discussion. I don't want to reframe the entire thing and ask "why do you so closely follow that which you don't like?", but that is the gist of it. We'll get there at some point.

You sort of got rid of the need to know (in my opinion) with the auditory clues. I need to get up there no matter how many are left, so if it pops back up odds are I'm shooting it again. And somebody tells me I'm ready by saying "Shoot the castle".

And again, if they are still flashing, I need to hit them again. Adding the orbit hurryup changed my strategy a bit on that. I need to make sure that hurryup is done to get all the way around to the blue monkey targets (they are always a right orbit shot for me).

You don't need to. The last thing I am thinking about as I am trying to progress in a multiball is the hurryups. All I'm trying to do is hit the shots I really need. I really like the newer calls for shooting the ramp and throne room when they are ready. It made progression much more clear.

So if I like the game so much are there things I would change? Of course. But they are minor things like I'd like to see the Fireball blue shot be a little more distinct (it kind of gets lost when other things are running and Munchkin mode vs the Fire shots are almost indistinguishable to me). And I'd like the insert for Battle the Witch to be pulsing green when that is ready to go, the same green as the inserts during the battle.

Oh, and I'd like to reliably beat the witch... but that isn't a programming issue... she slapped me around last night. I didn't even get the ball locked behind the Winkie. I just choked.

In over 100 games you didn't want to look at the rules map on the LCD once? I mean I get your point, you don't think WOZ conveys the rules at all. But you must have had to willfully ignore it to not see that screen once. If I was hitting a group of targets like that over and over accomplishing nothing I'm not sure I could last 10 games without asking why. Ignoring it for 100 games stretches credibility. Just saying you don't like games with rules might be better.

Excalabur, where I'm from, we call that a tall story. He wasn't on the upper playfield for 10 ~ 15 minutes.

I agree. That and no HOADC display except when you collect one. However FYI, hitting the sling below the upper right lanes changes the horse colors (for when there isn't an orange horse to shoot for). It seems random, or I just haven't figured out what it changes to yet.

Yes it is... and I like it that way. That is the diamond I have not been close to collecting yet. My opinion of it is that I need to play rescue perfectly to claim it. I know what I have to do, but I just keep making a mess of it. And I stack it as high as I can. If I am going after that I'll try to start a CB, then dump one ball so there are no BALL targets lit (any CB mode makes Rescue impossible). Then I will prep ECMB, finally I will stack as many as I can in rescue, start rescue, and finally start ECMB. Then I try to get all the jackpots and get the letters flashing... that is as far as I get and I'll have lost all the balls by then.

I like all your points though. I happen to like the stacking, but you're right, some modes are unplayable when stacked. I've never played Munchkin Multiball because I only really start Munchkin modes to get to battle the witch, and they all seem the same. But someday I'll get the Mega Jackpot in rescue... someday.

They would get bored and the thread would die. Without an audience to get a rise from it would be people posting over and over.

This is the world we have come to. Me agreeing with RobT and lowepg about something. Ratings are the worst way to rate a game. Years ago they were actually useful, but even then they included one star and 10 star ratings with no comments which are clear manipulation of the system. But it used to be that you could read the comments and get some insight into a game. However now those are manipulated as well. And that isn't a WOZ phenomenon as they both point out, that is how it is with every game, new and old. It seems more prevalent for the newer games, but it has been going on a long time. That is why the only rating that matters is playing the game and seeing what you think of it.

Obviously a company that was up and running for years and that did similar for many years could do something quicker than a startup. I don't think that is news. It also doesn't include any design time, you are just counting building them in the factory. So really nobody was doing them in "3-4 months". Just like Stern is designing games for 2 years from now, but nobody external ever sees that time.

Hold on a second Rob, we are numbered? What number fanboy am I? I mean crap, I know I can't compete with Panzer, but I have to be single digit, don't I? I've melted the witch 3 times now, that HAS to count for something!

And that is totally fine to hate yellow. But you sound normal, and you will be waiting for the apocalypse before clubbing your neighbors car. But what if you couldn't resist and decided tonight as you were taking out the trash to go club his car? Those are the guys I'm still wondering about here. Of course I know I won't get an answer. This thread has moved on to people's hate for Panzer's love of WOZ more than the original subject.

Ummm, Stern pinball machines.

There ya go. Usually I'm not the one to say something like that, but you asked. A Stern pinball machine does not have a transferable warranty. The reason I don't usually say stuff like that is because I like and own Stern games. But you are using a complete double standard. Go ahead, read a Stern warranty. You will find the exact same thing... Well except that the warranty period is a lot shorter. I know, the outrage you must feel at Stern for that... How could they?

Don't worry, I'll keep the dream alive

And I don't mind the Flankster thumbing me down. I'll even give him a reason... Toys!

No. Bad dogs! The first rule about the computer system in WOZ is that we do not talk about the computer system in WOZ. I have never seen a single discussion on that point go well. Not once. Both sides get chapped thinking they are correct (and sometimes they can both be technically correct, but they are both missing the point). No minds are going to be changed. No understanding will be found. Bad dogs.

OMG. 2 years later and you stick a pen in this things eye? Why? All this will do is bring both ends of the spectrum back in to state their opinion and insult the other side. There is no constructive discussion about WOZ possible on Pinside. It just can't exist here. Bad job.