(Topic ID: 94984)

Why do people hate WoZ

By zr11990

9 years ago


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  • 1,002 posts
  • 228 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 7 years ago by Eskaybee
  • Topic is favorited by 7 Pinsiders

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There are 1,002 posts in this topic. You are on page 6 of 21.
#251 9 years ago
Quoted from epotech:

he only people that do are, um, "Friends of Dorothy" a well known colloquialism that I'm sure I don't need to clarify. I am not bagging on such people but it's not the usual target market for pinball buyers.

This to me is one of the funniest arguments that seems to routinely pop up on Pinside... that WOZ isn't "manly" enough for you guys.

g1.jpgg1.jpg

Yea, there's nothing wrong with "those kinds of people," you just prefer a different kind of game that doesn't appeal to the same demographic...

g2.jpgg2.jpg

Different strokes for different folks...

g3.jpgg3.jpg

#252 9 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

1000% agreed. If they don't come out of the chute firing on all cylinders like Stern does with their production, or at least a lot closer to it, its game over. NOBODY is going to put up with a 3 yr. wait again much less 6 months.
It's game time coming up baby, you can step up like the Spurs or flame out like the Heat! What's it gonna be.....

jjp should follow the pps model and have stern bang out thle games. shut down their underutilized factory in jersey and reduce overhead. say what you want about stern but they run circles around jjp in the production of games. if thle trickles out like the wozle debacle i fear game #3 will never be built.

-1
#253 9 years ago

I think WOZ is probably a terrible game. I've never played one myself. I just watched people play it on you tube.

#254 9 years ago

Jack's other business, selling snake oil is going gang busters from all accounts.

#255 9 years ago
Quoted from PinballHelp:

This to me is one of the funniest arguments that seems to routinely pop up on Pinside... that WOZ isn't "manly" enough for you guys.

Nothing says "manly" like Muppets. Can't wait !! Ugh.

#256 9 years ago

I think WOZ is a great game. Top 10, nope! Top Twenty, probably.
Game is fun but challenging. Game play is good, LCD screen is great, RGB lights are brilliant but it just got stale after the newness wore out for me. The outlanes were just to "greedy" IMHO.

The things I didn't like when I owned it was LED boards failing almost every week. They were great to get out a replacement but then another would go. I didn't feel like a NIB game should need this much maintenance.

I think most people didn't care for the "Stern" bashing that came from Jack initially but at the time I agreed with some of his points. I also didn't like being told games were shipping for a year when they actually weren't.

#257 9 years ago
Quoted from vex:

jjp should follow the pps model and have stern bang out thle games. shut down their underutilized factory in jersey and reduce overhead. say what you want about stern but they run circles around jjp in the production of games. if thle trickles out like the wozle debacle i fear game #3 will never be built.

Maybe all these guys should merge into one company and then we might actually have something!

Jpop, Keith, Ritchie, Lyman, Lawlor, Estes.........Stern's production facility, everybody else ("suits"), get TF out of the way!

#258 9 years ago

To the OP, thanks for starting this thread. Now my lunch break has well exceeded 1/2 hour and I spit soda all over the keyboard laughing at some of these replies.

Back on topic

I never had any interest in the game because of the theme and price point. Things that really killed any interest for me were...

the theme (not a good first theme for a new company in my opinion) Considering most pinball players are male, this theme will not draw their attention.

The out of the gate bashing of Stern and other pinball companies. Jack came out throwing bows saying if stern has 1 mile of wiring in their game, then my game has 2 miles of wiring. This was all said after he said in a previous interview that he wasn't going to tell you how many miles of wiring the game had like stern did.

The LCD screen. Just doesn't seem right on a pinball machine to me.

The Australian fiasco. I know it wasn't inherently Jacks fault but I think more could have been done about the situation.

The constant updates on the game progress. I don't mind updates on a games progress but I don't think it's necessary to have as many as they did. Now look at the shipping updates thread and it is lack of any major progress.

You need night vision glasses to see what is going on with the game. The back lighting is terrible.

The constant lies. "This game will have direct print cabinet art" (which later changed to decals from what I have heard) "You will get your game on 06/14/2013". Then the time comes and no game. "You will get your game on 06/20/2013 ish". Still no game. "We will not ship a game with incomplete code" hmmm. Imagine how many returns Jack would have if they didn't bang out code updates like they did because the code was far from complete when shipped.

The constant bashing and cruel treatment of others. Talking negative about pinside in general. Jumping in other peoples threads to try and ruin their sale of the game saying that the game will not have a warranty because the seller is not an authorized seller. Talking badly about Charlie E. and others who he worked with in the past and from what I have heard have been nothing but good to him.

The ruby reds and LE this and that. People bought the LE because they wanted the best game they could get. They wanted the satisfaction knowing there was no other better games out their. Then they introduce the ruby reds ect. This threw people for a loop.

THE FACT THAT IT HAS BEEN 3 YEARS AND SOME PEOPLE STILL DON"T HAVE THEIR GAME. This is just ludicrous to me. To spend that amount of money 3 years ago and still be waiting on a product that was supposed to have been delivered years ago. I mean come on, I know it is a new company just starting up but jeez that is way too long.

#259 9 years ago

I love my WOZ but some of the earlier posts about the upper right flipper brings up a big pet peeve of mine. You can't see the ball when it rolls down to the flipper. Only at the last second you see the ball but it's just not enough space to judge the ball speed to aim your shot. Also I believe there are only two shots worth going for: The skill shot and the witch.

12
#260 9 years ago

Whether WOZ is loved or hated by the masses is besides the point... I just know is that it's a great thing that Panzer loves his WOZ so much! I fear that if he ever sold it Pinside would implode and cease to exist. Praising WOZ and its great number of toys ensures there is balance in the Force and is necessary for the future of Pinside to survive

#261 9 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Try playing a few more games on Woz Captain Kirk it's anything but boring

Playing more games of WOZ would undoubtedly improve my opinion and comprehension of the rules.....but it's not going to fix the flow problems along with the poor lighting.

Again....high hopes for the Hobbit!!!!

#262 9 years ago
Quoted from vex:

jjp should follow the pps model and have stern bang out thle games.

That would be great, except he has badmouthed Stern so many times in his seminars, that no one would blame Gary if he told Jack to screw himself.

#263 9 years ago
Quoted from PinballHelp:

WOZ isn't "manly" enough for you guys.

woz.jpgwoz.jpg

-3
#264 9 years ago
Quoted from Captain_Kirk:

Playing more games of WOZ would undoubtedly improve my opinion and comprehension of the rules.....but it's not going to fix the flow problems along with the poor lighting.
Again....high hopes for the Hobbit!!!!

I don't see how WOZ has flow problems. Not every game needs crazy flow to be successful or fun. Just look at how popular TZ is yet its not as fast as say ACDC. The opposite would be me saying that Star Trek has too much flow along with too few devices that interact with the ball which doesn't create interesting gameplay.

#265 9 years ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

I don't see how WOZ has flow problems. Not every game needs crazy flow to be successful or fun. Just look at how popular TZ is yet its not as fast as say ACDC. The opposite would be me saying that Star Trek has too much flow along with too few devices that interact with the ball which doesn't create interesting gameplay.

You hit the hammer on the head! I don't like TZ either!

#266 9 years ago
Quoted from Captain_Kirk:

You hit the hammer on the head! I don't like TZ either!

Lol. Fair enough. I understand your point now.

#267 9 years ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

Lol. Fair enough. I understand your point now.

But you're right....it's all opinion on what kind of games we like.

I don't hate WOZ, it's just not for me.

Hobbit looks like a much better theme, with much better flow. But who knows till we play it, right?

#268 9 years ago
Quoted from MikeS:

Whether WOZ is loved or hated by the masses is besides the point... I just know is that it's a great thing that Panzer loves his WOZ so much! I fear that if he ever sold it Pinside would implode and cease to exist. Praising WOZ and its great number of toys ensures there is balance in the Force and is necessary for the future of Pinside to survive

LOL! That was great.

-1
#269 9 years ago
Quoted from Captain_Kirk:

But you're right....it's all opinion on what kind of games we like.
I don't hate WOZ, it's just not for me.
Hobbit looks like a much better theme, with much better flow. But who knows till we play it, right?

Yeah. I think The Hobbit will flow more than WOZ but will still be stop and go as well with it having 4 pop ups, 11 drop targets, the ball holder near kicker and of course Smaug. I certainly wouldn't pay $7,500 for TH if the pop ups and drop targets were to be taken out but it meant more flow. Something has to justify the high cost of these games and if not they should be priced lower.

#270 9 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

woz.jpg 30 KB

Are you sure YOU'RE comfortable with your own sexual orientation? LOL

You seem to be absolutely fixated on a small sub-culture surrounding elements of the motion picture, along with code words, phrases and things most of us have never heard of. And you've repeated them in multiple threads at this point (I read your same "Friends of Dorothy" thing in multiple threads, something I've never heard of).

Just sayin

#271 9 years ago
Quoted from fatality83:

To the OP, thanks for starting this thread. Now my lunch break has well exceeded 1/2 hour and I spit soda all over the keyboard laughing at some of these replies.
Back on topic
I never had any interest in the game because of the theme and price point. Things that really killed any interest for me were...
the theme (not a good first theme for a new company in my opinion) Considering most pinball players are male, this theme will not draw their attention.
The out of the gate bashing of Stern and other pinball companies. Jack came out throwing bows saying if stern has 1 mile of wiring in their game, then my game has 2 miles of wiring. This was all said after he said in a previous interview that he wasn't going to tell you how many miles of wiring the game had like stern did.
The LCD screen. Just doesn't seem right on a pinball machine to me.
The Australian fiasco. I know it wasn't inherently Jacks fault but I think more could have been done about the situation.
The constant updates on the game progress. I don't mind updates on a games progress but I don't think it's necessary to have as many as they did. Now look at the shipping updates thread and it is lack of any major progress.
You need night vision glasses to see what is going on with the game. The back lighting is terrible.
The constant lies. "This game will have direct print cabinet art" (which later changed to decals from what I have heard) "You will get your game on 06/14/2013". Then the time comes and no game. "You will get your game on 06/20/2013 ish". Still no game. "We will not ship a game with incomplete code" hmmm. Imagine how many returns Jack would have if they didn't bang out code updates like they did because the code was far from complete when shipped.
The constant bashing and cruel treatment of others. Talking negative about pinside in general. Jumping in other peoples threads to try and ruin their sale of the game saying that the game will not have a warranty because the seller is not an authorized seller. Talking badly about Charlie E. and others who he worked with in the past and from what I have heard have been nothing but good to him.
The ruby reds and LE this and that. People bought the LE because they wanted the best game they could get. They wanted the satisfaction knowing there was no other better games out their. Then they introduce the ruby reds ect. This threw people for a loop.
THE FACT THAT IT HAS BEEN 3 YEARS AND SOME PEOPLE STILL DON"T HAVE THEIR GAME. This is just ludicrous to me. To spend that amount of money 3 years ago and still be waiting on a product that was supposed to have been delivered years ago. I mean come on, I know it is a new company just starting up but jeez that is way too long.

This goes back to exactly what I said earlier in the thread. You see, you try to come up with real criticism of the game, like "LCD screen just doesn't seem right" and vague criticisms like that which don't make any sense, but you give yourself away very easily with the only real substance of your posts: the in depth rants on Jack and his company.

Some people can't actually separate the game from the man. For the most part, this thread could almost be renamed "Why do people hate Jack?" and the complaints would make as much (if not more) sense.

#272 9 years ago
Quoted from mechslave:

This goes back to exactly what I said earlier in the thread. You see, you try to come up with real criticism of the game, like "LCD screen just doesn't seem right" and vague criticisms like that which don't make any sense

I really don't have much of a problem with the LCD but I can see how people think it looks odd in a normal back box. Not enough creative though went on when designing the cabinet for this game. I've never liked the black screen when the game is off. I'm afraid of leaving it on all day because of the LED board issues.

#273 9 years ago
Quoted from PappyBoyington:

I really don't have much of a problem with the LCD but I can see how people think it looks odd in a normal back box. Not enough creative though went on when designing the cabinet for this game. I've never liked the black screen when the game is off. I'm afraid of leaving it on all day because of the LED board issues.

No one should care what a game looks like when it's off. It's off. lol

15
#274 9 years ago
Quoted from mechslave:

Are you sure YOU'RE comfortable with your own sexual orientation? LOL

You seem to be absolutely fixated on a small sub-culture surrounding elements of the motion picture, along with code words, phrases and things most of us have never heard of. And you've repeated them in multiple threads at this point (I read your same "Friends of Dorothy" thing in multiple threads, something I've never heard of).

Just sayin

I'm Super Gay.

#275 9 years ago

Careful Vid, you could get a perma ban

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11
#276 9 years ago
Quoted from Don1:

Careful Vid, you could get a perma ban

Sorry about that.

I'm Super Straight.

#277 9 years ago
Quoted from tjohns14:

Only one thing kills it for me. LCD screen i dont think lcd's backboxes belong on pins. After all it is not a video game. its got a mechanical ball and video games helped kill pinball. My favorites era is early 90's DMD. Thats the same reason virtual pins dont work for me, im not a fan. I want to see,hear,feel the ball. IMO.

This is the least justifiable reason to not like WOZ I've seen. Having a moving image in the backglass does absolutely nothing to impair you from being able to "see,hear,feel the ball". It's just a fancier version of a DMD.

99% of the time you're playing you don't even look up - it could be a shaved yak with rabies sitting back there and it wouldn't make one damn bit of difference to you as a player.

You didn't even say "I don't like what it looks like when it's off" - which is really the only valid complaint against the LCD .

#278 9 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

No one should care what a game looks like when it's off. It's off. lol

I respectfully disagree. A pinball machine is a HUGE thing that takes up a lot of space in my house. I want it to look nice, on or off.

#279 9 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

No one should care what a game looks like when it's off. It's off. lol

My games are dark and boring when they're off, couldn't care less, if I want to enjoy them or show them off or even just pay any kind of attention to them I just flip them on. Problem solved!

#280 9 years ago

The amount of time collectively wasted on discussing WOZ good/bad is asinine on pinside.

#281 9 years ago
Quoted from SunKing:

I respectfully disagree. A pinball machine is a HUGE thing that takes up a lot of space in my house. I want it to look nice, on or off.

You can buy a translite.

#282 9 years ago
Quoted from Don1:

Careful Vid, you could get a perma ban

They can't ban Vid! That would be like kicking Pete Rose out of baseball, or firing Charlie Sheen from 2 1/2 men!

Oh wait......

#283 9 years ago
Quoted from Captain_Kirk:

They can't ban Vid!

If Robbin want's to ban me for my sexual orientation, I can't stop him, it's his show.

#284 9 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

If Robbin want's to ban me for my sexual orientation, I can't stop him, it's his show.

LOL!

-1
#285 9 years ago

Another Woz thread gone gay. Shocked. Ugh

#286 9 years ago
Quoted from coasterguy:

Another Woz thread gone gay. Shocked. Ugh

If you look at the contributions of certain repeat posters in this thread who post no substance whatsoever (constant homosexual references and jokes, emocion spam, etc) they were always going to turn this, and any, WOZ thread into a train wreck because of the animosity they have for the title and for Jack.

As I pointed out earlier, there are a handful of Pinsiders who basically have the same message on repeat and they've taken that on tour, following all the WOZ threads for the past couple of years, copying and pasting their negativity, over and over again with groupie-like obsession.

#287 9 years ago

The only real complaint I have about WOZ is the fact that the hardware being used to assemble the machine is beyond poor quality.

I just spent hours just getting the throne room etched acrylic plate out of my machine so I can take measurements.

Why did it take so long?...BOTH of the screws and BOTH of the nuts were stripped. On top of that, I had to clip both wires to the LED strip plug in order to get it out of the machine. The hole that JJP put in the playfield to run the wires was WAY too small to be able to pull it through. Yeah, I know it's a new company, and people make mistakes, but it's little stuff like this that irks me. On top of that, people still have to do tons of mods to the machine as soon as they open the box. Issues like the pop bumper ring interference still isn't being addressed on the assembly line.

The only issue I've had, play-wise was my Glenda spot target had to be adjusted.

I still think WOZ is the best machine to come out in ages. I really enjoy the depth of the rules, the artwork, the "feel" of the machine, etc.

I just wish JJP would pay a little more attention to the really small stuff, like the quality of the hardware they've chose to use. I like some of the small stuff they did...things like having the spotlight hex stand-offs anodized black and using the black solid body spotlight housings instead of the cheaper clip-on spotlight housings. The black doesn't stand out as much on the machine.

I get the impression that maintenance on this machine is going to be a pain.

#288 9 years ago
Quoted from coasterguy:

Another Woz thread gone gay. Shocked. Ugh

I was going to suggest leaving that out of this discussion a while ago. I don't want to see this thread get closed for that. Because really I'm still waiting to hear something. I'm hearing a lot about why people don't like the game. And every one of those opinions is valid. "I don't like an LCD in a pinball machine" is a valid point. But how does "I don't like LCDs in pinball games" turn into "I can't stand an LCD in YOUR game and I need to find every thread about that game and yell how much I hate LCDs"? That is the stuff I am hoping to hear about.

#289 9 years ago

There is a HUGE gay following for all things Wizard of Oz.

If this brings a different demographic to the pinball world, that can only be a good thing!

-2
#290 9 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

There is a HUGE gay following for all things Wizard of Oz.
If this brings a different demographic to the pinball world, that can only be a good thing!

REALLY? Are you worried we didn't see it the dozen or so times you've mentioned it in this, and other, threads?

Obsessed much?

#291 9 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

No one should care what a game looks like when it's off. It's off. lol

So you're telling me I shouldn't care? Thanks now I feel so much better

#292 9 years ago
Quoted from mechslave:

REALLY? Are you worried we didn't see it the dozen or so times you've mentioned it in this, and other, threads?
Obsessed much?

Does it bother you that I want more Gay people in the hobby?

#293 9 years ago

Personally I think the LCD is a game changer and makes DMD games, including my ACDC, look a bit outdated. The LCD on WOZ really helps display progress of the multiple modes spread throughout the playfield and produces some very cool animations. I can't see spending $7,500+ on a pinball machine anymore unless it comes with an LCD for the display.

Check out the extra ball animation in the video below at 13:39. Animations like that have much more impact on a game than the same thing appearing on a DMD in blocky text.

#294 9 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

My games are dark and boring when they're off, couldn't care less, if I want to enjoy them or show them off or even just pay any kind of attention to them I just flip them on. Problem solved!

Mine is in the entryway of the house. It's the first thing you see and it's right next to AC/DC. I care what it looks like when it's off, and I'm not the only one who has noticed it. But lets not make this issue into a big deal though. It's been debated before and I don't want anyone thinking it's a major issue with me.

#295 9 years ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

Personally I think the LCD is a game changer and makes DMD games, including my ACDC, look a bit outdated. The LCD on WOZ really helps display progress of the multiple modes spread throughout the playfield and produces some very cool animations. I can't see spending $7,500+ on a pinball machine anymore unless it comes with an LCD for the display.
Check out the extra ball animation in the video below at 13:39. Animations like that have much more impact on a game than the same thing appearing on a DMD in blocky text.
» YouTube video

Groundhog Day 2 - The Panzer.

#296 9 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

If Robbin want's to ban me for my sexual orientation, I can't stop him, it's his show.

Or for misspelling his name, or for using an apostrophe in "wants" perhaps.

#297 9 years ago
Quoted from DanQverymuch:

Or for misspelling his name, or for using an apostrophe in "wants" perhaps.

I can only blame Android talk to text for misspelling while I drive, LOL.

#298 9 years ago
Quoted from PappyBoyington:

So you're telling me I shouldn't care? Thanks now I feel so much better

I just can't imagine how a turned-off pinball machine's appearance would cause grief in anyone's life. You have pinball machines in your house....life is good.

When you want to enjoy it, turn it on and play it.

10
#299 9 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

There is a HUGE gay following for all things Wizard of Oz.
If this brings a different demographic to the pinball world, that can only be a good thing!

I can't believe bigots would openly thumb down the hobby becoming more inclusive.

So ignorant.

#300 9 years ago
Quoted from chessiv:

Groundhog Day 2 - The Panzer.

In TV advertisement guy announcer voice.

Chessiv, let me tell you about the amazing WOZ. It has 5 magnets, count em 5 magnets! It has not one but two mini playfields! Oh wait, we are not done yet unlike most pins. Are you sick and tired of watching your ball drain on pins and then nothing happens expect that feeling of emptiness? Well you're in luck with WOZ as there's two mini outlane games where you can get your ball back! Also if you, a friend or a family member can't stand looking at DMD animations that look like the original NES Super Mario Bros game than WOZ is the game for you as it offers HD animations for the ultimate high def pinball experience!!!!

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